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For an Attorney General, Barr has descended to depths never before reached in American justice at that level.

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you need to revisit your history. Bobby Kennedy ;whose sole qualification for the job was being the brother of the President(unless you consider his position as chief council for Joe McCarthy ) ,spied on MLK because he thought MLK was a Russian agent .He failed to fire J Edgar Hoover as head of the FBI because Hoover had compromising dirt on JFK and RFK . He approved some 600 wiretaps in 3 years in office ;and kept no records and placed no time limits on the wiretaps . On his watch, criminals went free precisely because the government had abused their rights. Dozens of cases against organized-crime figures were lost because the FBI's evidence came from illegal methods.

Actually I see a pattern here . The emperor's abuse of FISA predates his illegal spying on Trump . He abused the system spying on Senators ,and the press well before the 2016 campaign. It is yet to discover how many other candidates besides Trump he spied on. Rand Paul has been making the charge ;and he almost certainly spied on the Sanders campaign .
In April 2017 FISA court Judge Collyer found that unwarranted and illegal surveillance of American citizens was done by the highest reaches of the emperor's regime for at least 4 years, starting in 2012.

She found the DOJ showed an appalling “lack of institutional candor”.

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The document, signed by Judge Rosemary M. Collyer, said the court had learned in a notice filed Oct. 26, 2016, that National Security Agency analysts had been conducting prohibited queries of databases “with much greater frequency than had previously been disclosed to the court.”
It said a judge chastised the NSA’s inspector general and Office of Compliance for Operations for an “institutional ‘lack of candor’ ” for failing to inform the court. It described the matter as “a very serious Fourth Amendment issue.”

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https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nat...152948259.html

Out of approximately 5000 searches of the NSA database from October 2016 to April of 2017 in the National Security Division of the DOJ, 4250 of them were deemed illegal or non-compliant .Collyer ruled that this information was shared and disseminated unlawfully to John Brennan and James Clapper. Furthermore, information was disseminated within the emperor's regime in violation of the 4th amendment.

We never would've learned the truth if it wasn't for patriot Adm Mike Rogers , then head of the NSA.He initially tipped off Trump (on Nov. 17, 2016) that communications from Trump Tower were being tapped .Soon after ,the Washington Compost reported that DNI James Clapper and Defense Secretary Ash Carter had recommended the removal of Rogers from his NSA post. That didn't happen. He discovered the illegal spying. He went personally to the FISA Court and briefed the Chief Judge and worked with her for months to uncover the people who did it. The FISA Court has already told the Justice department who lied to that court and that has been given to Bill Barr already.The real collusion has been exposed .Once Barr starts releasing the relevant information after he declassifies it the true extent of the emperor's abuses will be exposed .

That is why the rats like Comey ,Brennan ,Clapper et al are running for cover.

Mueller getting out of Dodge while the gettin is good . He told us "I wrote a big report ;go read it already and leave me alone " ....."thanks for the $35 million " . "Don't ask for an accounting of it "

He did throw the Dems a bone by not putting to bed the ridiculous conspiracy /collusion narrative .( "...if we had confidence the President did not commit a crime, we would have said so.") .He shirked his responsibility IMO by not coming to a conclusion. His comment was a complete cop out .He punted .

If he was never going to be able to find obstruction of justice because of DOJ policy, then what was the point of investigating that in the first place? By his reasoning, he couldn’t have said the Trump/campaign had conspired with Russia if he had found that . He could have “concluded" that President Trump obstructed justice without citing formal charges. So he apparently could not find sufficient evidence to make such a statement . Given the fact that everyone surrounding the President was also not charged ;and there are no constitutional or DOJ regs against indicting the President's inner sanctum . I believe that as much as Mueller wanted to find obstruction ;he couldn't .If he had the evidence, Mueller could have identified criminal conduct & *recommended* charges.

Instead he gave Congress the implicit go ahead to proceed with impeachment .....at your peril. .
He also definitely over stated the Russian efforts . You can't call a couple of pajama boys spending $100,000 on Facebook ads as a serious effort . Evita spent that much every week .

Well your spin is better than the case closed crap statement from Sarah and her boss, but the ball in in Nancy's court now so either she pulls the trigger or don't. If congressman Amash has the courage to buck his party so publicly, then why don't the dems?

lol Amash is one of 197 Repubs . and he comes from a Michigan seat which means he is one of the ones most likely to lose a seat if he doesn't go along with the Democrat agenda.
Nancy doesn't want to impeach because she knows it's fools gold . Go ahead . She already has the votes to move impeachment to the Senate . btw .He has two primary challenges next year .

Amash is obviously less worried about his seat than he is doing what he thinks he should do. I think Pelosi is waiting for the IG and Intell report before she drops the hammer. Everybody else is antsy. Can't blame them at all, since the Mueller Report as released was damning to the prez and NO DOUBT his lawyers have read it and told him so. Nancy knows that too!

196 scared repub sycophants! Wonder when the dufus will confront Vlad for lying to him to his face? Oh wait he can't, Vlad would nail down the collusion for the Russian interference.

it's damning only in a looking glass world .

“If we had had confidence that the president had clearly not committed a crime we would have said so; ” is NOT the way the system works . Investigators are supposed to look for evidence that a crime was committed . If they can't find that evidence they are supposed to say that they did not find enough evidence to show a crime was committed .Innocent is the presumption in the country .

If he doesn't have enough evidence that Trump or his campaign committed a crime he is obliged to presume his innocence.

Mueller isn't a judge, he is an investigator who said there is insufficient evidence. However, those who wish to be judge, jury and executioner say we are going to keep digging until we find evidence of a crime. We all know what that crime was, telling HC she wasn't fit to be president

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Originally Posted by tomder55

it's damning only in a looking glass world .

“If we had had confidence that the president had clearly not committed a crime we would have said so; ” is NOT the way the system works . Investigators are supposed to look for evidence that a crime was committed . If they can't find that evidence they are supposed to say that they did not find enough evidence to show a crime was committed .Innocent is the presumption in the country .

If he doesn't have enough evidence that Trump or his campaign committed a crime he is obliged to presume his innocence.

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He also said he gathered the facts and its up to the congress what they do with them. If you had read the report like he said to do then you would have heard every word he said before...and MORE! By the way he said the conspiracy evidence was INSUFFICIENT but the obstruction he laid out. Go read it and be aware that insufficient means there is evidence, NOT NO EVIDENCE! He doesn't presume innocence for that reason. I'm sure the dufus doesn't agree with you despite what he says publicly. Consider that just saying witch hunt and Russian Hoax may be conspiracy to mislead, and obstruct. Also consider that he may have obstructed Mueller's conspiracy investigation as well so got to INSUFFICIENT evidence. Pretty plain he called Barr a LIAR in nuanced language, except for the way he kept his word and released it redacted to the public. Don't worry the congress will get the full report.

So keep hoping the dufus isn't LYING. Hope you're taking bets! Hope you're rich and can pay!

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Originally Posted by paraclete

Mueller isn't a judge, he is an investigator who said there is insufficient evidence. However, those who wish to be judge, jury and executioner say we are going to keep digging until we find evidence of a crime. We all know what that crime was, telling HC she wasn't fit to be president

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The congress IS the judge, jury, executioner and lawful investigator. That's the LAW.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

it's damning only in a looking glass world .

“If we had had confidence that the president had clearly not committed a crime we would have said so; ” is NOT the way the system works .

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Mueller has torpedoed the Trump/Barr ship of collusion and obstruction. There is no question that Trump obstructed justice - if in doubt, just read the report.

Yawn. Politics at work. All we heard about for months and months was collusion. Having failed at that, they shift gears to obstruction. When that falls apart, they'll be upset that he tore the tag of his mattress fifteen years ago.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Yawn. Politics at work. All we heard about for months and months was collusion. Having failed at that, they shift gears to obstruction. When that falls apart, they'll be upset that he tore the tag of his mattress fifteen years ago.

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Um, you haven't read it yet, have you!

You mean the parts where there are no recommendations of charges against Trump?

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

You mean the parts where there are no recommendations of charges against Trump?

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He stated in the report AND his press conference today that such a recommendation was NEVER an option because of DOJ policy. Yeah I know you listened to Barr and Barr lied. The thing we forget is the Russians engaged in a concerted effort to interfere in our election. Multiple outreach to dufusites was a part of it. Yeah Vlad lied too.

I read it except the redacted parts . No collusion ;and he did his best to make a circumstantial case for obstruction . Now he's trying to get out of dodge before he has to answer under oath.

I suspect that he's dirty ;at least as dirty as J Edgar Hoover was when he ran the FBI . How do I know that ? I don't have a solid case that he's dirty . But there is enough circumstantial evidence to smear him as such .But if he wasn't a coconspirator in the emperor's abuses of power then he was at very least a willing participant in charade .While he was the boss ,the Clintoon foundation made a fortune in the pay for play game . While he was director ;the Emperor's IRS targeted conservative groups . He did nothing about their illegal violations. While he was director the emperor trafficked guns for Mexican cartels .While he was director the Justice Dept illegally spied (surveillance )on reporters and members of Congress. While he was director $billions of dollars dispatched to Iraq disappeared without a sniff of a DOJ investigation .

And I've already documented how he has left innocent people broken and ruined in his wake.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

He stated in the report AND his press conference today that such a recommendation was NEVER an option because of DOJ policy. Yeah I know you listened to Barr and Barr lied. The thing we forget is the Russians engaged in a concerted effort to interfere in our election. Multiple outreach to dufusites was a part of it. Yeah Vlad lied too.

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So the Russians do what they have been doing for decades, and you believe that your President conspired with them. Yes I know it was just another business deal for Trump, something about building a hotel in Moscow because he didn't believe he would win. The issue is whether he did anything illegal, and Mueller has stated he doesn't have enough evidence. He could have said there are no grounds for criminal prosecution or a criminal prosecution would not succeed, but he wanted to keep the nonsense going for political reasons, and his recent statements have added nothing except fuel for the fire

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Originally Posted by tomder55

I read it except the redacted parts . No collusion ;and he did his best to make a circumstantial case for obstruction . Now he's trying to get out of dodge before he has to answer under oath.

I suspect that he's dirty ;at least as dirty as J Edgar Hoover was when he ran the FBI . How do I know that ? I don't have a solid case that he's dirty . But there is enough circumstantial evidence to smear him as such .But if he wasn't a coconspirator in the emperor's abuses of power then he was at very least a willing participant in charade .While he was the boss ,the Clintoon foundation made a fortune in the pay for play game . While he was director ;the Emperor's IRS targeted conservative groups . He did nothing about their illegal violations. While he was director the emperor trafficked guns for Mexican cartels .While he was director the Justice Dept illegally spied (surveillance )on reporters and members of Congress. While he was director $billions of dollars dispatched to Iraq disappeared without a sniff of a DOJ investigation .

And I've already documented how he has left innocent people broken and ruined in his wake.

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Well there you go ammo for the dufus to use in his defense so he doesn'y become Mueller next victim.

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Originally Posted by paraclete

So the Russians do what they have been doing for decades, and you believe that your President conspired with them. Yes I know it was just another business deal for Trump, something about building a hotel in Moscow because he didn't believe he would win. The issue is whether he did anything illegal, and Mueller has stated he doesn't have enough evidence. He could have said there are no grounds for criminal prosecution or a criminal prosecution would not succeed, but he wanted to keep the nonsense going for political reasons, and his recent statements have added nothing except fuel for the fire

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Nice spin. Humorous and goofy in your Aussie style.

I have said it before and I will say it again, nothing to see here, two years of political crap, star chambers and witch hunts and at the end nothing conclusive regarding the prime target, suspect or whatever. ok he snared some minions, but this isn't evidence of anything because, read it again, there is no evidence. That Trump is a foolish person isn't in doubt, never was in doubt

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

You mean the parts where there are no recommendations of charges against Trump?

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That wasn't the job of the report.

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Originally Posted by paraclete

The issue is whether he did anything illegal, and Mueller has stated he doesn't have enough evidence. He could have said there are no grounds for criminal prosecution or a criminal prosecution would not succeed, but he wanted to keep the nonsense going for political reasons, and his recent statements have added nothing except fuel for the fire

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Apparently, you didn't read it either. Or really listen -- and understand -- what Mueller said today.

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That wasn't the job of the report.

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It wasn't??? It wasn't the job of the special counsel to investigate "Russia-Gate" and determine if crimes had been committed? If that wasn't his job, then what on earth WAS his job?

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Originally Posted by paraclete

I have said it before and I will say it again, nothing to see here, two years of political crap, star chambers and witch hunts and at the end nothing conclusive regarding the prime target, suspect or whatever. ok he snared some minions, but this isn't evidence of anything because, read it again, there is no evidence. That Trump is a foolish person isn't in doubt, never was in doubt

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I know English may not be your first language or your law degree may have expired but there is a huge difference between No evidence and INSUFFICIENT evidence. Obstruction addresses that condition of INSUFFICIENT, as in beyond a reasonable doubt. I know you can read, but do you need a link? You should read it and maybe you will understand why I call him a lying cheating dufus. This report is a great example among others.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

It wasn't??? It wasn't the job of the special counsel to investigate "Russia-Gate" and determine if crimes had been committed? If that wasn't his job, then what on earth WAS his job?

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To investigate the extent of Russian attack on our election and anything related. It's the job of congress to deal with crimes the president may have committed. He got the other bozo's or is in the process.