I see your point and it is somewhat valid. My complaint is that, while you say you liberals have moved beyond Obama/Clinton, you liberals are complaining about issues with Trump that you chose to completely ignore with Obama and Clinton. As the old saying goes, "What's good for the goose is good for the gander." It is your selective outrage that I object to.

Exactly my point JL. More attributed to the tribal partisan politics we practice than anything else, but after years of Obama bashing and plain obstruction at the expense of consensus, it's the Dufus's turn in the barrel, and conservatives. That's my main objection, the right whining because we are doing to Trump, what you did to Obama. Been that way all my life.

That's politics but at the expense of consensus and good orderly direction within the boundaries of good behavior. Yeah I'm as guilty as anyone in engaging in such primitive uncivil behavior. Conservatives are hard to work with and impossible to move forward with unless you roll over and let them have their way. Fortunately, we have elections every two years and 2020 is coming around quickly.

Silly season never ends in America, and neither did the civil war. Just less blood, more noise.

I think that's a fair statement. It really all comes down to policies. So what Trump policies do you disagree with?

After much thought, NONE, and his character is abismal.

You don't disagree with ANY of his policies??

My bad forgive my misread. I disagree with ALL of his policies and plans as being shortsighted, ill informed and incompetently implemented, and self serving.

Again sorry for the misread.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

My bad forgive my misread. I disagree with ALL of his policies and plans as being shortsighted, ill informed and incompetently implemented, and self serving.

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...and harmful.

Can you be specific with two or three?

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Can you be specific with two or three?

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1. Immigration, e.g., now with parents and their children permanently separated
2. Repeal the ACA without replacing it with a better-thought-out plan
3. Has no interest in environmental concerns as reflected in various policies, e.g., oil pipelines and waterway protections
4. Build an unnecessary and even harmful wall on our southern border

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1. Immigration, e.g., now with parents and their children permanently separated

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Would you prefer they put the children in jail with the parents? Do you realize it is, as I understand it, it is the same policy Obama had? Why do you think the separation is permanent?

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2. Repeal the ACA without replacing it with a better-thought-out plan

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ACA has not been repealed.

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3. Has no interest in environmental concerns as reflected in various policies, e.g., oil pipelines and waterway protections

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Could you be more specific? We have had oil pipelines and waterways for a long time. And are you in favor of the lunatic fringe democrat suggestion put forward by AOC?

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4. Build an unnecessary and even harmful wall on our southern border

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Matter of opinion. You don't want parents and children separated, but you don't want to do what it takes to stop illegal immigration.

If we had a decent immigration system,jail wouldn't be necessary for the "millions" >sarcasm font< who come to our southern border. The separation of families is permanent because no one gave a hoot toward identifying and keeping track of the people who were separated. Heck, they're just poor brown people who can't speak English. Big deal....

ACA has been screwed up and is a total mess now. Trump planned to get rid of it.

I have no idea what AOC says. Oil pipelines should not cross waterways and private land or interfere with migrating animals. And we must put our best minds to work to get away from coal and oil use. We're in the 21st century!!!

Again, put a better immigration system on our southern border!!!! Then we won't have to worry about all those drug dealers (welcomed by OUR drug dealers and our young people) and gangsters (who love our easy-purchase gun culture) to move in.

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The separation of families is permanent because no one gave a hoot toward identifying and keeping track of the people who were separated. Heck, they're just poor brown people who can't speak English. Big deal....

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I doubt that is true.

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ACA has been screwed up and is a total mess now. Trump planned to get rid of it.

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It was screwed up from the word go, even back when President Obama was being dishonest about being able to keep your doctor and your policy.

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I have no idea what AOC says. Oil pipelines should not cross waterways and private land or interfere with migrating animals. And we must put our best minds to work to get away from coal and oil use. We're in the 21st century!!!

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Oil pipelines already do all those things and have been for decades. Can't pin that on Trump. I'm all for a rational, economic replacement for oil and gas. Let us know when you find out what it is.

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Again, put a better immigration system on our southern border!!!! Then we won't have to worry about all those drug dealers (welcomed by OUR drug dealers and our young people) and gangsters (who love our easy-purchase gun culture) to move in.

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Uhm... the drug dealers and gangsters slip across the border practically at will. The wall will stop that.

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Uhm... the drug dealers and gangsters slip across the border practically at will. The wall will stop that.

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The drugs come in by air and water. Drug dealers laugh at the idea of a wall. Do you really think they'll say, "Gosh darn! Now there's a wall. I can't get into the US. Guess I'll go back home."

What about the Rio Grande? I've yet to hear how building a wall is going to keep bicultural families and businesses prospering.

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The drugs come in by air and water. Drug dealers laugh at the idea of a wall. Do you really think they'll say, "Gosh darn! Now there's a wall. I can't get into the US. Guess I'll go back home."

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Your reference was not to drugs, but to drug dealers. That's what I referred to, but there is a river of drugs coming across the border. Yes they come in through other routes, but I am all in favor of stopping what we can, and primarily stopping the influx of illegal immigrants which the wall will be effective against.

Here in Texas we have dealt with LEGAL and illegal immigrants for a very long time without a wall until a loony started hollering about one.

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Here in Texas we have dealt with LEGAL and illegal immigrants for a very long time without a wall until a loony started hollering about one.

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So you deal with illegal immigrants by allowing them to pour across the border by the hundreds of thousands every year? You'll just have to pardon me if I am not impressed with that plan. No wonder we need to try something new.

JL, who's going to pick crops and work in orchards? Who's going to reroof houses? Who's going to do menial labor for the wealthy?

I'm all for immigrants coming across the border LEGALLY to work in America, but it also wouldn't be a bad idea to tell the current welfare recipients that we now have jobs for them.

Not very many live near the areas that need cheap labor. How do you propose they travel to those locations?

What would be wrong with them moving in order to gain employment? Kind of like an adult taking care of him/her self. Makes a lot more sense than taking money from Americans who DO work to give to someone else who doesn't want to move.