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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Then tell us what you believe. Is your "truth" true? Are the statements of Jesus true? If his statements are true, then aren't you under some obligation to tell your co-workers the truth?

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I'm retired and have no coworkers.

In a PM, I had said this (how quickly they forget....):

"You asked, "Did Jesus really rise from the dead. Is sin real? Are heaven and hell real? Is a day of judgement coming? Can I really do all things through Him who gives me strength?

My answer to all of those is a resounding YES!!!"

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

That the stock market is up since Trump's election? Are you kidding? Only a raging idiot would deny that. Yes I believe it.

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Stock markets rise and fall, how do you account for the big adjustments lately? Who shall we blame or does Trump only take credit for rises. If you are using the stock market as an indication of confidence then Trump's influence might be positive. I think Trump's impact is as credible as the hockey stick curve, just coincidence, now if he sees a big win this week it might point to confidence in him, if not it is censure, much more reliable as an indicator of sentiment

Sorry to have to tell you this, but hate crimes increased the last two years of Mr. Obama's administration. So whatever you think is true of Trump must also have been true of Obama.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.108a66dac29d

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"You asked, "Did Jesus really rise from the dead. Is sin real? Are heaven and hell real? Is a day of judgement coming? Can I really do all things through Him who gives me strength?

My answer to all of those is a resounding YES!!!"

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What a shame that you seem so determined to not share those truths with others who do not know them.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

What a shame that you seem so determined to not share those truths with others who do not know them.

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What a shame that you think that.

This is what I was referring to.

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"I worked in LibraryLand with coworkers and volunteers who were born into the Muslim religion and the Hindi religion. Each spoke enthusiastically about his/her faith's blessings and celebrations and observances. Years ago I babysat for a Jewish family who told me about their holidays and rituals. It would have been the height of disrespect for me to tell any of them that what they believed since birth, beliefs that were part of their daily lives and prayers and worship, were evil and should be given up, that only Christianity is correct and if they don't change over, they're going to Hell."

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They need to hear the truth, and you seem to be saying you would not risk "the height of disrespect" in order to tell them.

So with all evasiveness aside, what would you tell them?

"It would have been the height of disrespect for me to tell any of them that what they believed since birth, beliefs that were part of their daily lives and prayers and worship, were evil and should be given up, that only Christianity is correct and if they don't change over, they're going to Hell."

I would not have told them that their beliefs were evil and that they were going to Hell. I would have asked them about their faith, their beliefs and learned as much as I could, would have shared with them the features of Christianity that were especially common to their faith.

And btw, the workplace is not the place to share this in any depth -- maybe briefly during a coffee break or at lunch. Better would be to meet outside of work.

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I would not have told them that their beliefs were evil and that they were going to Hell. I would have asked them about their faith, their beliefs and learned as much as I could, would have shared with them the features of Christianity that were especially common to their faith.

And btw, the workplace is not the place to share this in any depth -- maybe briefly during a coffee break or at lunch. Better would be to meet outside of work.

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There is some wisdom there, but I would add this. It is only in sharing the aspects of my faith that are NOT common with their faith that I can share the gospel with them. They will not, for instance, have faith in Christ, so I will have to tell them about Him. I don't have to confront them or argue with them, but I would need to tell them as I have the opportunity to do so.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

There is some wisdom there, but I would add this. It is only in sharing the aspects of my faith that are NOT common with their faith that I can share the gospel with them. They will not, for instance, have faith in Christ, so I will have to tell them about Him. I don't have to confront them or argue with them, but I would need to tell them as I have the opportunity to do so.

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Did I say I wouldn't do that? You must have missed "especially"; N.B. I didn't say "only".

I think you misread your own post. Your emphasis was on that which is common. "the features of Christianity that were especially common to their faith." My comment concerned that which was NOT common.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I think you misread your own post. Your emphasis was on that which is common. "the features of Christianity that were especially common to their faith." My comment concerned that which was NOT common.

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And those would eventually become part of the discussion.

I have used this analogy before and it's appropriate now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_men_and_an_elephant

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The parable of the blind men and an elephant originated in the ancient Indian subcontinent, from where it has been widely diffused. However the meaning of the popular proverb differs in other countries. It is a story of a group of blind men, who have never come across an elephant before and who learn and conceptualize what the elephant is like by touching it. Each blind man feels a different part of the elephant's body, but only one part, such as the side or the tusk. They then describe the elephant based on their limited experience and their descriptions of the elephant are different from each other. In some versions, they come to suspect that the other person is dishonest and they come to blows. The moral of the parable is that humans have a tendency to claim absolute truth based on their limited, subjective experience as they ignore other people's limited, subjective experiences which may be equally true.^[1][2]

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And those would eventually become part of the discussion.

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Good. Then we agree.

Here's what wrong with your elephant story. In that story, there really is an elephant and the elephant has definite characteristics. If one blind man says the elephant has eight legs, then he is wrong. If another says the elephant is the size of his thumb, then he is also wrong. All the claims of the blind men are not correct. There is an objective standard of truth, and that is the elephant itself. So again, if we want to think that everyone is right, then no one is right.

Beyond that, the Christian faith does not claim that man has wandered about over the centuries and, quite by accident, discovered some things about God. No, the Bible tells us that God has revealed Himself to man, most recently in the person of His Son. So we are not blind men groping about, trying to relate our subjective discoveries of God. We can look at His Son and know all we need to know, and know it with confidence. It is not subjective, it is objective.

Whatever gets you through the day my friend. Your point is well taken though as God is the big elephant in the room, and always has been, but ponder for a moment if those blindmen had put their knowledge and experience together then maybe instead of conflicts, they would have a much more accurate concept/picture as to what the elephant is. That is why I cannot fully grasp or agree with focusing on the differences between the faiths of men because I feel you miss so much and invite the conflicts between us to separate and divide as opposed to the more productive path of good orderly direction of building bonds of respect that leads to better understandings of our world.

While I am no scholar of any particular faith I've read enough history to know the interactions of man have produced many conflicts when one tribes seeks domination over another, but PEACE requires the willingness to share and exchange ideas to learn from each other and forge the path forward that benefits us all.

No, we ain't there yet, but is not faith based on the hope we will get there eventually, no matter what tribe, or region we are from? Do you really believe you must change the world into your own image? I don't think that was the example of Jesus, quite the opposite frankly. I think that God has revealed himself to man in many ways, and not just through Jesus. Just my humble observation.

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Do you really believe you must change the world into your own image? I don't think that was the example of Jesus, quite the opposite frankly.

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You need to look much, much closer. If you don't think He came to bring, not merely change, but enormous change, then you have missed it completely. Read the gospels for yourself. Either accept his words or reject them, but it is a terrible thing to try and live in the middle, content with a fantasy Jesus that has no relationship to the real one.

"Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52 From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”

He is not advocating for war, but rather saying that the truth brings division.

That is not a license for YOU to ostracize or persecute, or dominate and a reality check that you cannot control the thoughts, actions, and words of others. The example of Jesus is make peace, whether that is the outcome or not. He did not make war with those that opposed him, punished him, crucified him. I take it as an acknowledgement of the challenges of your faith, can you make peace where there is opposition?

Maybe that's something to consider when you beech about Caeser taking YOUR money and giving it to another.

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That is not a license for YOU to ostracize or persecute, or dominate and a reality check that you cannot control the thoughts, actions, and words of others. The example of Jesus is make peace, whether that is the outcome or not. He did not make war with those that opposed him, punished him, crucified him. I take it as an acknowledgement of the challenges of your faith, can you make peace where there is opposition?

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I haven't ostracized or persecuted anyone that I know of. I have no idea where you got that from. As to what Jesus came to do, you can argue with Him about what He said. The peace that Jesus came to bring is peace between people and God. I have no ill intent toward anyone, but there is a lot of opposition to the Christian message that I have no control over.

The SON of God or the SUN of God?

"It was forbidden by early Christian church authorities to study astrology. That might well have been because the authorities were afraid that anyone astute enough could come to realise that astrology was the source from where the New Testament Jesus story was derived."
https://www.newparadigm.ws/my-blogs/...-god-the-same/

What a load of... …………………………..

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What a load of ........................

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Just about right.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Just about right.

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It was your chuckle for the day.