Hello again, smoothy:

They way it works around here, is since I linked you to MY sources, which you debunk, you get to link me to YOURS, if you have any. Spouting it out of your mouth doesn't cut it...

excon

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Originally Posted by smoothy

Really.....contrary to what the left wing brain is capible of comprehending.......NOTHING new happened under that which wasn't already happening for decades.....

Do you really believe the NSA, CIA and a number of other agencies suddenly winked into existance the date that act was signed...incidently...by a majority of DEMOCRATS.

Boy the left is really out of touch with reality. Because I have dealt with that stuff since the early 80's. And it wasn't new then by any rational definition.

I know the national phone and data infrastracture really, really well....its been my livelyhood for 30 years now.

If you are THAT paranoid....then you would know well enough you don't say anything electronically you wouldn't want someone to hear and more than you would in any crowd.

And know what....I'm not affraid because I haven't said or done anything to be paranoid about.

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Being a telco man myself for a while I'll wait for you to cite your sources for what you posit.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

Do you really believe the NSA, CIA and a number of other agencies suddenly winked into existance the date that act was signed...incidently...by a majority of DEMOCRATS.

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Hello again, smoothy:

You're missing something here. Consider this a teachable moment... Yes, we had spy agencies before George W. Bush.. They spied on everybody BUT us. It was ILLEGAL for them to spy on us. We have a LAW about that very thing, called FISA. You SAY the government has been violating that law for decades...

That's a great argument in SUPPORT of Wikileaks. Somebody has to reveal the truth, after all. Oh, that's right... You know of somebody who told you the truth... I'm waiting to hear who it is.

excon

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Being a telco man myself for a while I'll wait for you to cite your sources for what you posit.

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If you in fact are or where (I'll have to take your word on it)... then you would already know that those details could not be posted publicly. You legally can't even disclose account info to third parties about any regular ciruit or customer and there are procedures to verify who you are talking with is in fact who they claim to be before you can reveal any info. They won't even be readily accessible at your office... IE they would be locked in a safe rather than be filed with the other data records. And are not handled the same way even as far as how they are labeled and taged and anyone dealing with them would have a clerance.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

If you in fact are or where....then you would already know that those details could not be posted publically.

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Hello again, smoothy:

I understand.. I really do. You HAVE sources, but if you told who they were, you'd have to kill me..

excon

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, smoothy:

You're missing something here. Consider this a teachable moment... Yes, we had spy agencies before George W. Bush.. They spied on everybody BUT us. It was ILLEGAL for them to spy on us. We have a LAW about that very thing, called FISA. You SAY the government has been violating that law for decades...

That's a great argument in SUPPORT of Wikileaks. Somebody has to reveal the truth, after all. Oh, that's right... You know of somebody who told you the truth... I'm waiting to hear who it is.

excon

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Really... then Why isn't Bill Clinton... or Jimmy Carter in jail? They both did it long before W.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

Really....then Why isn't Bill Clinton....or Jimmy Carter in jail? They both did it long before W.

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Hello again, smoothy:

Without sources, this is crapola emanating from your right wing, Glenn Beck addled brain. It certainly isn't to be believed.

excon

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, smoothy:

Without sources, this is crapola emanating from your right wing, Glenn Beck addled brain. It certainly isn't to be believed.

excon

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YOU haven't presented any sources proving this never EVER happened before 9/11 and the Patriot act, because I know for a fact it did. First hand... (and you won't be able to) but then... the Left never follows the same rules they expect everyone else to follow do they?

Hell, Filegate was well publicized, NOT classified and THAT happened before 9/11. But then Republicans aren't entitled to privacy are they? Want to pretend that never happened too?

Here this is public info... its public domain now... related if not specific to what I was saying.

http://www.fas.org/irp/program/process/echelon.htm And this predates 9/11 by a LONG time.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

If you in fact are or where (I'll have to take your word on it)....then you would already know that those details could not be posted publically. You legally can't even disclose account info to third parties about any regular ciruit or customer and there are procedures to verify who you are talking with is in fact who they claim to be before you can reveal any info. They won't even be readily accessible at your office... IE they would be locked in a safe rather than be filed with the other data records. And are not handled the same way even as far as how they are labled and taged and anyone dealing with them would have a clerance.

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If that were the case then why a law passed specifically and publicly allowing it? Why publicize what you say has been done in secret for decades?
I realize you enjoy making yourself sound important and full of "secret" information but really anyone with a net connection can do that.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

YOU haven't presented any sources proving this never happened before 9/11

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Hello again, smoothy:

In my world, you can't prove something didn't happen.

But, it still misses the point... I don't care WHO started illegally spying on me. What I care about, is the GOVERNMENT is ILLEGALLY SPYING on me.

Besides, IF those bastard Democrats were illegally spying on YOU, and you have PROOF, why wouldn't you say something?? You certainly wouldn't conspire with Democrats, would you? Your secret clearance doesn't require you to cover up a crime, does it - especially one committed by Democrats?? No, having one of those myself, I KNOW that it does not.

excon

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

If that were the case then why a law passed specifically and publicly allowing it? Why publicize what you say has been done in secret for decades?
I realize you enjoy making yourself sound important and full of "secret" information but really anyone with a net connection can do that.

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Really... what specifics did I mention? Can't get more general than I did, and doesn't violate any privacy policies and yes I HAVE had training on what can and can't be told and to whom under the curent law.

And check the link I mentioned above in response to excon... nothing very secret about the existence of those programs for 10+ years now, 12 in some cases. NPR even has even aired several programs about them. Not either denying or confirming anything ELSE that wasn't mention in that thread... all of which has links to very public information and investigations.

Anyone can pretend to understand the Telephone infrastructiure... but it takes years... really decades to actually do it. You can't by sitting in any classroom.

Al Gore lied when he claimed to invent the Internet... (he would have had to been 11 at the time). Quite honestly... I can't care less if you believe me or not... you are only deluding yourself if you are that paranoid. I'll sleep just as well tonight if you don't believe a word I said as I would if you believed every one.

I have more important stuff to do with my time than log on here or anyplace else to type stuff I dreamed up. In fact... I really don't have the time to spend as much time here as I do.

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, smoothy:

In my world, you can't prove something didn't happen.

But, it still misses the point... I don't care WHO started illegally spying on me. What I care about, is the GOVERNMENT is ILLEGALLY SPYING on me.

Besides, IF those bastard Democrats were illegally spying on YOU, and you have PROOF, why wouldn't you say something??? You certainly wouldn't conspire with Democrats, would you? Your secret clearance doesn't require you to cover up a crime, does it - especially one committed by Democrats??? No, having one of those myself, I KNOW that it does not.

excon

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You do know they could care less about your coversations with your girlfried.. or girlfriends. And you do know (and this has already been on TV shows) they look for keywords.

Now they would be interested in your coversations with Mexican Drug Kingpins... or details of your arms shipments to sudan assumning you had any. But in general... nobody is going to pay notice about what you are saying otherwise. Unless maybe Osama Bin Laden is a distant relative. And No... excon doesn't have an agent assigned to listen to all of his electronic communications.

I don't see crimes being committed. Forigners outside the USA aren't covered by the constitution or the Bill or Rights.

And I do live in a state that allows me to record phone calls with me without telling the other person I'm doing it. And I'm comfortable with that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smoothy

You do know they could care less about your coversations with your girlfried..or girlfriends. And you do know (and this has already been on TV shows) they look for keywords.

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Hello again, smoothy:

So, as long as you say the RIGHT things, and talk to the RIGHT people, you're cool... THAT, to YOU is freedom... DUDE!

excon

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Originally Posted by smoothy

Anyone can pretend to understand the Telephone infrastructiure....but it takes years...really decades to actually do it. You can't by sitting in any classroom.

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Not at all. Kids in their teens were hacking it. It really isn't that hard to understand at all if one is technically minded.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

Al Gore lied when he claimed to invent the Internet...(he would have had to been 11 at the time).

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Is this an example of some of the stuff that you believe? Seriously? You really think that Gore claimed he invented the internet? :rolleyes:

No he didn't invent it, he "created" it.

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But it will emerge from my dialogue with the American people. I've traveled to every part of this country during the last six years. During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet.

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I have an uncle on the other hand, who did help create the arpanet.

Yep, Gore sent funds its way.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Yep, Gore sent funds its way.

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I'm just reporting the facts, a direct quote.

I was agreeing with you. :)
On a related note, I did my bit to help the web get a foothold in Canada, I used to *sell* HTML standards to universities and Canadian Forces bases. Of course at the time I didn't really understood what it was all about even though my brother had recently taken me on a little tour of the internet with Archie and Gopher.

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, smoothy:

To be accurate, it was George W. Bush who began the illegal spying... But, Obama DIDN'T stop it. I guess losing our Fourth Amendment rights isn't a partisan issue...

excon

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Now MLK is rolling over in his grave. He was illegally spied on with the approval of one of the worse AGs ever... Bobby Kennedy .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Now MLK is rolling over in his grave. He was illegally spied on with the approval of one of the worse AGs ever ......Bobby Kennedy .

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Hello again, tom:

You are unable to distinguish between an attorney general spying on his enemy, and a nation spying on its citizens... THAT'S why your party is screwed up.

excon