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Originally Posted by Catsmine

Sauce for the goose, man.

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Hello again, Cats:

I'm remarkably consistent in my support for the Constitution. If you followed me for any length of time, you'd know that I don't have LISTS.

excon

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, Cats:

I'm remarkably consistent in my support for the Constitution. If you followed me for any length of time, you'd know that I don't have LISTS.

excon

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Actually my objection is not to the mosque itself. After all there are already a couple nearby and upgrading or moving to a bigger place is no big deal. What I find objectionable is the "Center," with its classrooms and training simulators. They have supposedly changed the name from "Cordoba Center," so it doesn't sound like a Triumphal Arch so much. The terrorist in charge of the center I would really like to see at Quantico. Marion, Ill. Would be another good place to put on his itinerary.

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Originally Posted by Catsmine

The terrorist in charge of the center I would really like to see at Quantico. Marion, Ill. would be another good place to put on his itinerary.

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Hello again, Cats:

IF there are terrorists there, I'd like to see 'em busted too. But, you can't believe that our terrorist HATING government would let a KNOWN terrorist run around free. We, for SURE, wouldn't send him on a worldwide goodwill tour, and we are.

Let me adjust that a bit... You COULD believe it. I don't.

excon

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Originally Posted by darknald3

Pretty Ironic, they should leave it be in my opinion, it's a good tourist attraction and to build a mosque on it would be counterproductiv, I mean there are schools nearby and there's a lot of traffic in that area, not a good idea

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The mosque won't be ON Ground Zero, but two blocks away.

What do schools and traffic have to do with anything?

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again:

The president SUPPORTS freedom of religion. Whaddya know about that? Last night, he said so. But he stepped up to the plate anyway.

Leaders lead - others read polls. This is what I expected of him from the get go. I guess it's better than nothing.

excon

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Hello again,

He walked it back. He AIN'T no leader. Indeed, with this clarification, he's not really on any side of this controversy. What made Bloomberg's speech so inspiring was how unapologetic and emphatic it was in defense of the mosque itself, not just some sort of abstract "right" that very few people were even questioning. Obama sucks.

What's LOST in this debate, is WHAT we're actually debating... We're NOT discussing a mosque. We ARE discussing whether we BELIEVE in the freedoms documented in our beloved Constitution!

Freedom is messy. It's unpopular. But, if I had to choose between criticizing a citizen for seeking his rights, or supporting the Constitution that grants them, I'll choose the latter every time. Use it, or lose it, as the saying goes.

excon

Why do you object to our expressing our displeasure at the placement . You would defend their 1st amendment right by not mine.

The leader in this has been Governor Patterson. He alone has offered a reasonable solution to the issue.

The President backed away because he was taking heat from people in his own party who are up for reelection and know that this issue is a political loser for them. What he accomplished was making this a full blown national issue and for that I guess I got to give him kudos.Now Dem running this year will have to put their cards on the table .

That means you Schumer! That means you Gillibrand ! That means you Cuomo! All the Dems who have taken a low profile .

This is not a Constitutional rights issue ,it is a land use issue . It is part of the regular negotiations that goes on all over the country .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

why do you object to our expressing our displeasure at the placement . You would defend their 1st amendment right by not mine.

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Hello again, tom:

I don't OBJECT to you expressing your displeasure. In fact, I SUPPORT your right to be wrong.

excon

Actually, I believe we've all acknowledged those freedoms. And no, Zero is no leader. He not only 'walked it back,' he tortured history in order to suck up to Muslims.

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And tonight, we are reminded that Ramadan is a celebration of a faith known for great diversity. And Ramadan is a reminder that Islam has always been a part of America. The first Muslim ambassador to the United States, from Tunisia, was hosted by President Jefferson, who arranged a sunset dinner for his guest because it was Ramadan —- making it the first known iftar at the White House, more than 200 years ago. (Applause.)

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That was a rather glorified version of the event. It was more like the first envoy from an Islamic terrorist organization, aka Barbary Pirates. He'd come seeking tribute and concubines.

Has anyone mentioned the only place of worship that was destroyed in the 911 attack? It was a Greek Orthodox Church, and from what I've read, they are having problems getting the permits to rebuild it.

Maybe the talk about putting up a new place of worship should take a back seat to discussion of rebuilding the one that was already there.

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Originally Posted by RickJ

Maybe the talk about putting up a new place of worship should take a back seat to discussion of rebuilding the one that was already there.

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Hello Rick:

I absolutely agree.

It should be understood, of course, that TALK has NOTHING to do with what a private party has the right to do, and is most likely, GOING to DO. We seem to have convinced ourselves that with enough TALK, somebody will STOP the mosque from being built. Nothing could be further from the truth. There IS no somebody. NOBODY has authority to STOP it. NOBODY.

The PROBLEM, as I read it, Rick, is that the REASON the church ISN'T being rebuilt is because they DID involved the government, by asking for stuff. If I was a church/mosque, I wouldn't ask the government for ANYTHING!

excon

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello Rick:

I absolutely agree.

It should be understood, of course, that TALK has NOTHING to do with what a private party has the right to do, and is most likely, GOING to DO. We seems to have been convinced that with enough TALK, somebody will STOP the mosque from being built. Nothing could be further from the truth. There IS no somebody. NOBODY has authority to STOP it. NOBODY.

The PROBLEM, as I read it, Rick, is that the REASON the church ISN'T being rebuilt is because they DID involved the government, by asking for stuff. If I was a church/mosque, I wouldn't ask the government for ANYTHING!

excon

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From what I'm reading permits are needed. Wouldn't that be the case whether the building to be built would be a Church, Mosque, Convenient store, etc.

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Originally Posted by RickJ

From what I'm reading permits are needed. Wouldn't that be the case whether the building to be built would be a Church, Mosque, Convenient store, etc.?

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Hello again, Rick:

Yes. But, I don't read anything that says the permits are being withheld because it's a church.

excon

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, Rick:

Yes. But, I don't read anything that says the permits are being withheld because it's a church.

excon

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You make a good point. I guess the emotional side of me comes out in this argument. I've heard that those that want to build the Mosque will not reveal their funding sources.

Maybe it's true that funding sources are not required under normal circumstances, but I'd sure hate to find out down the road that a Mosque built at ground zero was funded by people who also fund terrorists.

It would be an awesome victory for dirtbags.

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Originally Posted by RickJ

I've heard that those that want to build the Mosque will not reveal their funding sources.

Maybe it's true that funding sources are not required under normal circumstances, but I'd sure hate to find out down the road that a Mosque built at ground zero was funded by people who also fund terrorists.

It would be an awesome victory for dirtbags.

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Hello again, Rick:

I would hate that too. However, even though they ARE, as you say, NOT required to divulge their funding under ordinary circumstances, I have confidence that their finances have been TORN apart by homeland security people LOOKING for exactly the stuff both you and I HOPE isn't there. We have given our government the authority to DO that, and I'm sure they have. I can promise you, the government has NOT been lenient nor gentle with ANY Islamic organization that has a bank account.

Of course, my confidence in government certainly could be misplaced. Maybe they're spending all their time spying on YOU & ME.

excon

I cannot argue with that. It seems clear to me that you and I and most of the people in this thread are of the same mind.

It's a crappy situation for sure. It would not surprise me if the State or the City of New York come up with new laws as to what can be built where - as a result of this situation.

And would that be right? I don't know. Maybe.

You know there are strip joints and stores selling X-rated DVD's in that same 2 block periphery.

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Originally Posted by RickJ

It would not surprise me if the State or the City of New York come up with new laws as to what can be built where - as a result of this situation.

And would that be right? I don't know. Maybe.

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Hello again, Rick:

As long as those laws don't conflict with our vaunted Constitution, I'm cool with 'em. But, it's pretty hard to tell ONE religion that they're not welcome here... Especially because freedom of religion is the MAIN reason we're even a country in the first place.

I wonder too, what this debate means to the Muslim soldier fighting along side our boys in the trenches. I don't know why we'd want to piss HIM off, but I'll bet we did. I HAVE said, that much of what WE DO, is the best recruitment tool Al Quaida could ever have. Of course, that's vociferously denied, cause we're the good guys.

excon

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

You know there are strip joints and stores selling X-rated DVD's in that same 2 block periphery.

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That's no surprise, but fortunately for them we weren't attacked by porn stars on 9/11.

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, Rick:

As long as those laws don't conflict with our vaunted Constitution, I'm cool with 'em. But, it's pretty hard to tell ONE religion that they're not welcome here... Especially because freedom of religion is the MAIN reason we're even a country in the first place.

I wonder too, what this debate means to the Muslim soldier fighting along side our boys in the trenches. I dunno why we'd wanna piss HIM off, but I'll bet we did. I HAVE said, along with others, that much of what WE DO, is the best recruitment tool Al Quaida could ever have. Of course, that's vociferously denied, cause we're the good guys.

excon

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The good folks, including Muslim's, who fight in the trenches should, I think, have the same concerns.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

That's no surprise, but fortunately for them we weren't attacked by porn stars on 9/11.

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Hello again, Steve:

THAT, is a good one!

excon