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One voice in that piece:Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
"Anti-criminalization activist Mariame Kaba attempted to settle the debate with the op-ed, "Yes, we mean literally abolish the police ... The only way to diminish police violence is to reduce contact between the public and the police."
I disagree. Better vetting, psychological testing, and training would go a long way to solve the problem.
That might be, and I think it's a valid enough point, but my understanding is that many PD's around the country are having trouble just finding even fairly good candidates. Numbers are a problem, and all of this anti-police rhetoric will not make it any better.Quote:
Better vetting, psychological testing, and training would go a long way to solve the problem.
ask All Out Crazy if she thinks she is being misunderstood when she talks about defunding . Ask the protesters at CHAZistan what they mean by defunding . WE in NY went through this crap in the 70s . NYC was unlivable .Quote:
They are using a mis-understood word. By "defunding" is meant defunding non-police activities and put them to mental health workers or social workers. One has actually promoted dismantling the police and starting over. She is a victim of her enthusiasm.
The way I see it ,the elected officials are embracing this because they know that they are going to be on shoe string budgets for a long time . Sandinista Bill wants to cut a billion dollars from the police budget . What he isn't telling you is that besides the lining of his wife's pockets ,that money is not going to shift to so called social services .
aint going to happen . All these municipalities police forces have the same public unions that keep predator teachers in rubber rooms for decades rather than getting rid of them .Quote:
I disagree. Better vetting, psychological testing, and training would go a long way to solve the problem.
Then PR also needs to be improved (especially with visits to and encouragement of high school and college students) with more hiring of PoC and women.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
AOC is a young woman who is very bright and very dedicated. In her early 30s I look for her to mature over the years - years in which she is almost guaranteed to be re-elected considering her constituency (my 'hood growing up).Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
An effective fund raiser, she has excellent leadership qualities which is a commodity sorely needed in Congress.
We all see it the way we see it. Time will tell.Quote:
The way I see it
Not all have the same, but unions have become a problem in the way some see no evil when their members are bad actors. This is especially true of the police unions. Another hurdle for good people to overcome. Nobody is saying it will be easy.Quote:
All these municipalities police forces have the same public unions that keep predator teachers in rubber rooms for decades rather than getting rid of them .
it is public union collective bargaining that brought us policies that purge personnel records of police misconduct. So they are the enemy of transparency .Do you think the AFL CIO will drop them ? Nah they will defend them.Quote:
Not all have the same, but unions have become a problem in the way some see no evil when their members are bad actors. This is especially true of the police unions. Another hurdle for good people to overcome. Nobody is saying it will be easy.
That leads to the question .... will the Democrats that are the big beneficiary of public unions largess demand these reforms . doubtful .Lip service and deflection is all you will see of this reform movement once the protests peter down and they can deflect blame on Trump.
No. It will be like shooting themselves in the foot. To repeat, I never said it would be easy. Maybe a start with Citizens United would be in order.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Trump needs no deflection of blame. He gets all he needs just by being Trump.Quote:
they can deflect blame on Trump.
How's the PR looking right now?Quote:
Then PR also needs to be improved (especially with visits to and encouragement of high school and college students) with more hiring of PoC and women.
Big difference between AFL-CIO, and a cops union. One is armed to the teeth and the authority to arrest and kill!
nope all police unions are affiliated with the AFL-CIO . AFL-CIO could drop the police unions in a second if they had real concerns about the police unions creating policies that protect cops who abuse their authority . They won't and the Dems who benefit from public union $$$$$$$$$ won't press it .
A distinction with a difference Tom, and we just don't know where this will go if public sentiments fueled by more "isolated" incidences keep happening. Not restricted to just cops either any more, and such outrage is as justified as the cruelties and atrocities that started them and keep it going.
That's a really questionable statement. People were outraged in the Michael Brown incident. Stores were burned. Property was destroyed and lives were negatively effected, only to find out that the cop was actually in the right. And that was by no means an isolated incident. Remember Tawana Brawley and the innocent detective whose life was destroyed???Quote:
such outrage is as justified
How about all those lives affected when the cops were wrong? Or those that witnessed those atrocities on tape, or worse, all the ones affected that weren't caught on tape? I mean terrorized and brutalized for jaywalking on a street with NO sidewalk???*
*See other thread.
In Atlanta we have video proof of a felony assault on a police officer while resisting arrest ;stealing an officer’s taser weapon and pointing the taser at officers & firing it at officers.
What would have happened if he had been white?Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
I gave you the stats already . Other than that I can't answer a hypothetical .Quote:
What would have happened if he had been white?
Tasers aren't lethal weapons, and they knew he was drunk, unarmed, and until the cuffs came out cooperative. None of those is a reason to shoot the dude in the back twice. They had his car and ID, and knew where he lived (Down the street). Now the officer gets charged, dude is dead and that Wendy's is burnt. A phone call to his wife or relative would have made a big difference in that outcome.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
You left out the fact that the man was running away and was shot twice in the back, killing him. There's video proof of that also. It's called felony murder.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
And we certainly appreciate your support of the local police.
Unlike you, I don't support murderers.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Your support of bad cops who commit murder and cruel atrocities is not appreciated at all. A fine example of Christian values.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
You show me where I've done that and we can talk about it. Otherwise, you're just engaging in more of your sick fantasies.Quote:
Your support of bad cops who commit murder and cruel atrocities is not appreciated at all. A fine example of Christian values.
The sick fantasies are all yours, pal. Own them.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
You made a sarcastic comment about supporting the local police. That's where you've said it. So now talk about it.
Btw, haven't heard that expression - support your local police - since the now defunct John Birch Society. Are you a member?
Do you always have to copy? Have you no originality at all?
You haven't heard "support your local police" since the John Birch society? Really? What city in the wilderness do you live in??? Thankfully, there are people on the earth other than you.
https://www.amazon.com/support-polic...umper+stickers
A person would have to be stupid beyond belief to think that "support your local police" somehow equates to "support of bad cops who commit murder and cruel atrocities." It's idiotic. It would be the same as thinking that "support the military" is equivalent to supporting that small number who engage in war crimes.
Ah, so you DO belong? That explains an awful lot about you.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Too late. The idiocy is all yours. Trying to backtrack from the context in which you placed the comment is transparent to anyone reading. You have a tendency (previously noted) to do this sort of thing.Quote:
A person would have to be stupid beyond belief to think that "support your local police" somehow equates to "support of bad cops who commit murder and cruel atrocities." It's idiotic.
LOL. Nice try. But you're overdoing it.Quote:
It would be the same as thinking that "support the military" is equivalent to supporting that small number who engage in war crimes.
And in a similar fashion, I have concluded that you belong to the Communist Party of Russia. Well, one makes as much sense as the other.Quote:
Ah, so you DO belong? That explains an awful lot about you.
Your conclusions are so stupid that it is does indeed make something transparent. VERY transparent. "I support the police." "Aha!" says Athos. "You are a member of the John Birch Society." "I support the police." "Aha!" says Athos. "You are admitting that you support bad cops who commit murder." It reminds me of some of the lines from the Pink Panther movies. It's so ludicrous that I'm laughing as I sit here typing this. And then it hits me. MORE YOUTH GROUP MATERIAL!! Thank you very much.
No comment on the context of your support the local cops statement? Diverting again?Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
You don't acknowledge the cruelties and atrocities by cops, so what should I think? You've never acknowledged the cruelty and atrocities of slavery, nor the affects after a few centuries? You do spend a lot of time complaining about black people and what they should do often enough, and chose to focus on the criminals and not the message of peaceful protests that have gone on for 20 straight days while criminality has gone down, so I cannot be alone in sick fantasyland.
Since when is it ok to grab a cops weapon and point and fire it at them ? He failed a sobriety test ; resisted arrest, punched the cop, escaped from 2 cops wrestling trying to control him , stole a taser and ran away with it .The video shows him running away and twisting back to the right to shoot at the cop 10 feet behind him. Hind sight is all 20-20 here .Quote:
You left out the fact that the man was running away and was shot twice in the back, killing him. There's video proof of that also. It's called felony murder.
I've done so several times. I am a white southerner, but I have no romantic affection with the old Confederacy. I am glad the South lost the Civil War, and I am ashamed of those who participated in an unspeakably cruel and unjust institution. Now having said all of that, I know full well that you will come back in a few months and say, You don't acknowledge blah blah blah.Quote:
You don't acknowledge the cruelties and atrocities by cops, so what should I think? You've never acknowledged the cruelty and atrocities of slavery,
There we probably disagree.Quote:
nor the affects after a few centuries?
I don't complain about black people. Yes, I point out the problems which are afflicting the black community which most people do not care to talk about. I have no problems with the protests, but when hundreds of businesses have been burned, then I cannot find it in myself to simply ignore it all. As I have said, if there is any justice in this world, your house or business will be next, and then you'll start to talk about it. I hope that never happens to you, but it would certainly serve a purpose.Quote:
You do spend a lot of time complaining about black people and what they should do often enough, and chose to focus on the criminals and not the message of peaceful protests that have gone on for 20 straight days while criminality has gone down, so I cannot be alone in sick fantasyland.
Would he have been shot and killed had he been white?Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Yes. White people are shot and killed by the cops far more often than are black people. Perhaps a better question would be, "Would he have been shot and killed if he had not resisted arrest, attacked two policemen, grabbed a weapon, and ran off like a maniac?"
All of that is true, but none of it justifies the cop killing him as he ran away. When you say "shoot at the cop" you mean with a taser, right? Not a firearm.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
He should not have been, and the shooting was ruled a homicide by the coroner. tasers are not considered lethal weapons.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Ran off or run off?Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Arghh! "Run off" would have been correct.
3rd time you asked this . I give my same reply ... I can't answer your hypothetical . Stats say he would've been shot .Quote:
Would he have been shot and killed had he been white?
ok then I'll give a hypothetical .He hits the cop with the taser and disables him long enough to grab the officer's firearm .Quote:
When you say "shoot at the cop" you mean with a taser, right? Not a firearm.
The only question is was it a lawful use of force ? I might suggest that Rayshard Brooks dictated the options . The cops could NOT release him on his promise to walk home and they could not let him get back in the car after he failed a sobriety test . Mothers against drunk driving might take issue with that . He is the one who resisted arrest . He is the one who punched the cop in the face .He is the one who wrestled the taser away from the cop . He is the one who began to flee . He is the one who continued to engage the cop by turning and firing the taser at the cop. When you talk about the cops options maybe you should consider what Brooks could've done differently . These officers did not escalate the situation, . Brooks did.
He wasn't next to the cop, and the chances of tasing the cop from that distance and while inebriated were not good. And the cops knew it was a taser, not a gun.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
still no justifiable homicide
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