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You keep on doing that end around . We pay premiums based on the coverage ;especially MANDATED coverage . That means that WE are paying for the procedure ,because if I had a choice ;I would not be covering sex change ;condoms and abortion pills ,and any number of other procedures. I would not require ,my family would not require... and if I or they did ;I'd pay for it out of pocket.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
No other babies ever born have problems -- oh, wait, spina bifida, muscular dystrophy, Down's, autism, and on and on -- and it isn't because God is making mistakes. Read the first three chapters of Genesis for a moral story and explanation.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Show me the bill they sent you for a guy getting his penis whacked or a female getting a boob job. Show me a bill for birh controlpills or an abortion. Show me where you are charged for to carry these things on YOUR insurance and how much it affects your premiums.
Call your insurance carrier to clarify how they do buiness and let me know. Now you sound like a church, telling an insurance company how they are doing business.
Call Obama and congress and tell them to make universal heath care a law, and premiums based on income.
'incorrect gender assignment' is a very poor description of what you claim is a birth defect .
They are not covered at this time . But you seem to think that these future mandates don't have any monetary consequences for the insured . That is nonsense ;and the growing costs of Obamacare is proving that true.Quote:
Show me the bill they sent you for a guy getting his penis whacked or a female getting a boob job. Show me a bill for birh controlpills or an abortion. Show me where you are charged for to carry these things on YOUR insurance and how much it affects your premiums.
I have an autistic son and am married to a guy with Asperger's, so watch it with the "defect" comments.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
I didn't say that Austism or Aspy is a birth defect so you should not take offense. Besides ;birth defect has a valid scientific definition.
Everything is about money in America, from anal cream to zygote transfer. The real issue would be does cost rise lower under Obama Care, because without it, the cost would rise any way,and has for decades.
Cap the costs if that's what you want, but stopping big business from making money by any legal means necessary is NOT a conservative idea, and one you have opposed in the past so what's the alternative?
You mean transgender operations? They are covered and have been since 2008. Wonder how many penis's you have paid to have removed?Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Not in my state
Update: Cuomo administration now rejects Medicaid funding for transgender surgery | syracuse.com
And not my insurance carrier .
What insurance companies cover sex reassignment surgery
And the company I work for would not request it to be covered .
Nor is it covered by Medicare
Turns out it was an elaborate pr stunt. The Obots floated the proposal during this week's 'National LGBT Health Awareness Week ';and withdrew it without fanfare yesterday in the Friday news dump.
Transgender has nothing to do with homosexual.
LGBT=Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transgender
Maybe it is. Maybe its just one being a more extreme for of the other. We don't know yet. For all we know at this point being (born) gay could just be a milder form of transgenderizm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
This is a screwed up world
Maybe we are just figuring out that humans not only have a wide variety of hues and characteristics, but mindsets as well. Some just don't fit in the old notions of normal. They are still human.
Hello again,
I'm watching my FAV on FOX News. Right wingers STILL believe they can repeal Obamacare. How NUTS is that?
excon
Yeah it's still not very popular is it?
Among some, no it will never be popular, neither was the old system we are replacing.
Hello again, Steve:
I don't know.. You guys live in a dream world. It's really impregnable too.Quote:
Yeah it's still not very popular is it?
In your world, EVERYBODY had health care, so who needed it? Obamacare was shoved down your throats. The people hated it then, and they hate in now...
The only problem with that, is it's absolutely untrue.
Excon
After the 2014 elections the Senate will be in Republic control. Like it was shoved down our throats through the reconciliation process;so can it be repealed through the reconciliation process with a 2016 Republic Presidential victory.
Democrats promised Obamacare would create jobs, lower health-care costs, and allow people to keep their current plans if they chose to. Those are now proven lies . That is why it continues to lose popularity .And it will continue to lose it because the Dems wisely exposed us to the low hanging fruit that people would likely to support .Now we are due to receive the bitter medicine that the Dems hid from us (we need to pass it to find out what's in it).
Also keep in mind that Dems have already defected on some aspects of Obamacare ;like the 34 Dem Senators who now want to repeal the medical device tax.
Many of the Dem Senators who are up up for reelection have seats in Red States ;and the people there are not going to forget how the Dems rammed this through. (West Virginia, North Carolina, Louisiana, Arkansas, South Dakota, and Alaska,. and some other places where open seats are being contested like Michigan and Iowa ,and perhaps New Hampshire).
And if the Repubics are smart (no guarantee there ) ;they will be able to frame the repeal in language about broader entitlement reform.
The strategery is to go after the mandate... SCOTUS called it a tax ;that means it's fair game in every budget debate . It also happens to be the least popular part of the plan ;and the part that is proving to be quite difficult to implement now that we are learning the true costs of implementation of that one aspect.. Most of the exchanges will not be ready by October... then what ?
Hello again, tom:
Good luck with that.Quote:
after the 2014 elections the Senate will be in Republic control. Like it was shoved down our throats through the reconciliation process;so can it be repealed through the reconciliation process with a 2016 Republic Presidential victory.
Excon
And all those repeated promises that we could keep our doctor and our insurance and it would make health care cheaper and wouldn't add a dime to our deficit were all true? Not only was it rammed down our throats it was sold on a foundation of lies, and both pi$$ me off. You apparently are OK with such deception to ram your agenda through.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
I still have my insurance and my doctor. What happened to yours?Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
The problem is you have 2 sides fighting about what normal is. One side view it as a bell curve and the other seems to think it's a flat line that includes everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
If its all normal then why not have a anything goes society ?
Insurance company changed hands and the cost has more then doubled as well as out of pocket expenses have more then quadupled.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
The only thing promise about Obamacare kept was Pelosi's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
The law should apply equally to everyone as a boundary of good behavior. That doesn't mean that the greedy b@stards won't use anything the can to extract more profit, no matter what the law says.Quote:
Originally Posted by cdad
Hasn't that happened in the past under the old system? Who was to blame before ObamaCare?Quote:
Insurance company changed hands and the cost has more then doubled as well as out of pocket expenses have more then quadupled.
Why have you not blamed your insurance company since ObamaCare hasn't even started yet and you are crying foul. Why did your doctor dump you?Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Not in my years so far. There have been changes. But not a yearly doubling of premiums and the deductables were fairly stable. Now the exclusionary list reads like the yellow pages for meds not covered that were in previous years.
Have they said why they have changed? Is this private insurance, or company? Maybe your insurance company is gouging you while they can. They have a year you know.
Hello again,
Quote:
In your world, Obamacare was shoved down your throats. The people hated it then, and they hate in now...
ExconQuote:
More Americans approve than disapprove of the Affordable Care Act, a new poll from Pew Research Center shows.
The poll, released Thursday, shows that 47 percent of respondents approve of the legislation passed by Congress and signed into law by President Barack Obama in 2010, while 43 percent disapprove. That marks only the second time since April 2010 — when Pew started tracking support for the law — that approval of the Affordable Care Act is above water.
Yes its private through where I work. And all this insurance companies are doing it. That is why we had to switch in the first place. The old insurance company was doubling every year since the passage of obama care. Its been horrible for the consumer.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
That is from July of last year. Also it shows that it has always had a high disapproval rating and if it were to come to a vote then it would be handily defeated.
Hello again,
I don't know WHY insurance company's raising their rates is the fault of Obamacare.. He doesn't control rates. Now, if he had TAKEN over healthcare, he could have. Maybe that's what we SHOULD do. Then your rates'll stay the same.. Actually, they'd go DOWN. That would be good, wouldn't it??
You're not going to answer. You just wish I wouldn't mention stuff like that. You just want to spew your hate of Obamacare and move on.
excon
Obamacare never was about healthcare. It's ALL about insurance. Why they're raising their rates is simple: they need their retirement package fattened up before some campaign contributor is promoted to take them over.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
The Sebelius Coverup | The Weekly Standard
Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Here is the part that you seem to be missing in the puzzle. Insurance is a regulated industry. As such they have a mandated amount of monies they must hold back from premiums in order to pay for the ongoing costs of healthcare in the system. Previously when they could deny cetain people and they would go to state programs or medicare the cost of the program remained steady and costs could be contained. But with new obama care mandates its more of a crap shoot then anything. So they must build this fund so they can pay out and still meet all the madates. If not they are forced to fold. That is why premiums are going up so fast. Obamacare doesn't even know what is going on and from what has been posted lately they won't know until August to November of this year with implimentation to begin in 2014.
Right now there is a uphill battle to cover the bases before the health care mandates fully kick in and force a irrecoverabe situation.
It won't happen... I expect the implementation to be delayed well into 2014 . There is no way that the combination of the state exchanges (which at this point is only 17 states participating ) ;and the alternate Federal exchange programs will be ready by the end of the year.
At this point the administration is crossing its fingers that the exchanges aren't - and I quote - a "third-world experience."Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Yeah saw that in a Forbes article that also answers why rates will jump through the roof.
Quote:
I don't know WHY insurance company's raising their rates is the fault of Obamacare..
CMS on Obamacare's Health Insurance Exchanges: 'Let's Just Make Sure It's Not a Third-World Experience' - ForbesQuote:
The real problem is that the blizzard of mandates and regulations that accompany Obamacare's exchanges will force many people to buy far costlier insurance than they've had to in the past. “In some markets,” said Aetna's CEO, Mark Bertolini, insurance premiums could increase “as high as 100 percent. And we've done all that math. We've shared it with all the regulators. We've shared it with all the people in Washington that need to see it. And I think it's a big concern.” Privately and publicly, most of Bertolini's peers at UnitedHealth, WellPoint, Humana, and Cigna have said the same thing.
What will cause the rate shock? A number of things. First, Obamacare forces young people to pay far more for health insurance, in order to mildly subsidize premiums for those in their early 60s, using a provision called “community rating.”
Second, the law forces insurance plans to have a higher “minimum actuarial value,” which makes plans more financially generous but also more expensive.
Third, the law's famous “guaranteed issue” provision forces insurers to take all comers, even if they are already sick: a great deal for the sick, but not for the healthy.
Fourth, the law gives HHS the power to force insurance plans to contain all sorts of extra benefits that customers wouldn't otherwise pay for, driving up the cost of those plans.
Fifth, the law contains an utterly nonsensical premium tax that insurers will be forced to pay, and pass on to their customers in the form of higher premiums. It also contains taxes on pharmaceuticals and medical devices that will also be passed on in the form of higher premiums.
Well spoken by a supply side engineer justifying his raising prices. But isn't that the same thing business has always said in every sector of society for decades? Gas, food, toilet paper? They all have raised their prices because service means NOTHING and only the bottom line increasing is what matters.
Only a profit before people type could embrace such a business model. The question to ask this fellow is what justified his raising prices BEFORE ObamaCare become a law YET to be implemented. You know back when they collected premiums for YEARS, and terminated your policy when you got sick, or told your doctor what treatments or remedies he could prescribe. Death panels didn't start with ObamaCare, they have been around as long as Insurance companies have so don't be distracted by the broken business model. Of course any standard of care and service is challenged by those that profit like airlines and carry on luggage fees to meet the rising cost of fuel, and Golden Parachutes for execs, as they pass on the costs of doing business to consumers.
But my question, with cheap labor every where, why has the price of doing business NOT gone DOWN ever? Then they tell you costs would be even higher without cheap labor.
The business model is BROKEN, and they turned OFF the spicket of TRICKLE down economics long ago. Keep listening to the rich guy who tells you he can't afford to service you properly, and blames the government for rising prices, while he takes his perks, bonuses and parachutes to the bank.
And take your own aspirin and pajamas to the hospital with you, and watch them charge you quadruple any way. Oh that's right the insurance company pays for it, or do they? They did jack up your premiums didn't they?
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