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And the cost of pumping oil and of fracking....

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Done at a profit, and not a burden on the taxpayer.

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Another friend put solar panels on his roof. His electricity costs went to zero.

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If that is true, then he also put in a supremely expensive bank of batteries, a converter, an auxiliary generator, and the cost of the whole thing was likely several tens of thousands of dollars. No thanks. Not too long ago I priced a solar system for a SMALL cabin. Just that was 6K, and that did not involve labor.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Done at a profit, and not a burden on the taxpayer.
If that is true, then he also put in a supremely expensive bank of batteries, a converter, an auxiliary generator, and the cost of the whole thing was likely several tens of thousands of dollars. No thanks. Not too long ago I priced a solar system for a SMALL cabin. Just that was 6K, and that did not involve labor.

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I agree, roof top solar is a dumb decision, all it does is transfer to cost from the energy company to the financier and even if you own it outright it is at best a zero sum game, Solar cells have a limited life, twenty years if you are lucky and batteries even less. What happens when the sun doesn't shine. Even in the climate I am blessed with, virtually perpetual sun shine I couldn't justify it

Yep. It makes no sense. One good hailstorm and back to starting over. Solar and wind are both pretty nonsensical alternatives. Here, they would never be used at all if not for government subsidies. And yes, that is the same government that cannot produce a balanced budget.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Yep. It makes no sense. One good hailstorm and back to starting over. Solar and wind are both pretty nonsensical alternatives. Here, they would never be used at all if not for government subsidies. And yes, that is the same government that cannot produce a balanced budget.

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Yes common sense is not very common, but stupidity is very common, afterall, half the human race are below average intelligence and we know who they vote for don't we? or maybe not

We are developing stuff where we can, and just because YOU have no sun and wind doesn't mean somebody else that does shouldn't harness it. That would be crazy. Overcoming obstacles is what some people do and is the road to progress.

Develop and use anything you want. "Harness" what you want. Just don't ask the rest of us to fund it with tax monies, because that is the only way any of it gets done. Without substantial tax subsidies, wind and solar would be as dead as they deserve to be. And don't make me laugh by suggesting that you are overcoming obstacles on the "road to progress".

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Develop and use anything you want. "Harness" what you want. Just don't ask the rest of us to fund it with tax monies, because that is the only way any of it gets done. Without substantial tax subsidies, wind and solar would be as dead as they deserve to be. And don't make me laugh by suggesting that you are overcoming obstacles on the "road to progress".

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all hands on deck and let the market decide

Market forces only develop things there is a market for

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Originally Posted by paraclete

Market forces only develop things there is a market for

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Or will be a market for. A good salesman can sell anything...even ice water to an Eskimo.

or a Trump to the american electorate but as Lincoln said you can fool some of the people some of the time and all of the people some of the time but you can't fool all of the people all of the time. Trump found that out and Biden should remember that as should all salesmen

ER...sure it was Lincoln that said that?

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Originally Posted by talaniman

ER...sure it was Lincoln that said that?

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from https://abrahamlincolnassociation.or...ver-said-that/
Early recollections place the saying in an 1858 speech Lincoln delivered in Clinton, Illinois [during the famous Lincoln-Douglas debates]. The first appeared in 1904 by E. E. Pierson, who remembered Lewis Campbell, a respected citizen of DeWitt County, telling him of the 1858 speeches that Lincoln and Douglas delivered in Clinton. According to Campbell, Lincoln said, “Judge Douglas cannot fool the people: you may fool people for a time; you can fool a part of the people all the time; but you can’t fool all the people all the time.”

The Babylon Bee | Your Trusted Source for Christian News Satire.

People talk about deaths from covid but the overall death rate isn't higher, so you have to wonder is this a plot to ruin our economies

what are you comparing the "overall death rate " to ? Worldwide 106,147,600 people have had the virus and at least 2,316,000 people have died from covid in a year .

I do think there are some who would take advantage of the pandemic to advance their political agenda . My examples of Dems suddenly being desperate to open the economies and schools since Quid was enthroned are examples of that.

A bit one sided considering the whole repub approach to this health crisis. Ignoring the pandemic and the lies served no one but themselves or so they thought. Maybe JOE inherited an economy/crisis that was ready for the corner to be turned but no less than the dufus taking credit for his inheritance either.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

what are you comparing the "overall death rate " to ? Worldwide 106,147,600 people have had the virus and at least 2,316,000 people have died from covid in a year .

I do think there are some who would take advantage of the pandemic to advance their political agenda . My examples of Dems suddenly being desperate to open the economies and schools since Quid was enthroned are examples of that.

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What I'm saying and have done before is that covid hasn't increased the overall death rate but it has increased the panic rate

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Originally Posted by paraclete

What I'm saying and have done before is that covid hasn't increased the overall death rate but it has increased the panic rate

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This false report first claimed in a university newspaper in October 2020 was promptly debunked by the CDC. However, it has become a widely quoted story principally by right-wing media.

Deaths from March 15, 2020 to January 16, 2021 were 20% higher than normal. This is probably an undercount since death statistics are still being updated. This data is from the CDC report issued on February 8, 2021.

The world-wide death rate for 2020 was but marginally higher than 2019. It represented an increase of less than 0.5% and was actually lower than several of the preceding years.

Year	Death Rate	Growth Rate
2020	7.612	0.440%
2019	7.579	0.440%
2018	7.546	-0.320%
2017	7.570	-0.320%
2016	7.594	-0.330%
2015	7.619	-0.310%
2014	7.643	-0.310%
2013	7.667	-0.980%
2012	7.743	-0.960%

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/WLD/world/death-rate

Thank you Jl my point exactly