I think it is apparent he is not a genius, so what remains is the possibility he is an idiot

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world...cid=spartandhp

Trump is bringing brinkmanship to new levels. He doesn't want an agreement with China, he wants abject capitulation. He doesn't want a nuclear accord with Iran, he wants abject capitulation. He wants total nuclear disarmament from North Korea, and so any deal which does not deliver capitulation to his "Great America" is unacceptable. And the excuse is always the other party wouldn't play on his terms, which of course, is send another carrier group to their front door. We can only hope that in 2020, the american people will decide they have had enough of this petulant child

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-...ident/11110704

and the advice from his ambassador, "ignore his tweets". Is this what we can expect from the american alliance. Background noise?

What part of lying, cheating bully is it you didn't understand when I was telling you OVER, and OVER, AGAIN. Anyway God appointed him so take it up with HIM. JL will be along to straighten you out, you just wait!

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Originally Posted by talaniman

What part of lying, cheating bully is it you didn't understand when I was telling you OVER, and OVER, AGAIN. Anyway God appointed him so take it up with HIM. JL will be along to straighten you out, you just wait!

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Tal, I fully understood from the get go. However I will give someone a chance, afterall; I have been known to be wrong, let me see, when was that? Never mind. I don't like the leftist point of view, however, thieving leftists wanting to spend my money on stupid objectives are equally stupid and idiotic from my perspective

You see Tal, I don't like loud mouth bullies either, and Dump typifies that class of idiot. I sometimes wonder whether God has abdicated in the leadership appointment department or has he resorted to punishing us with despotic leaders so we will turn back to him

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What part of lying, cheating bully is it you didn't understand when I was telling you OVER, and OVER, AGAIN.

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There you go talking about Obama again. I keep telling you that he is gone now so you can just let it go.

As for Trump, is he a high character person? We all know he is not, but the economy is in record territory and yet you say he is an idiot? Well if that is the case, we need more idiots in office. It gets old watching the vitriol which has consumed the left. Instead of simply talking issues and policy, they are reduced to name calling such as "idiot" and "dufus". In that regard, they are just like Trump, and all from the same litter.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

There you go talking about Obama again. I keep telling you that he is gone now so you can just let it go.

As for Trump, is he a high character person? We all know he is not, but the economy is in record territory and yet you say he is an idiot? Well if that is the case, we need more idiots in office. It gets old watching the vitriol which has consumed the left. Instead of simply talking issues and policy, they are reduced to name calling such as "idiot" and "dufus". In that regard, they are just like Trump, and all from the same litter.

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Ah here we are, some dupe to set me straight, the economy is doing what economies do, after a long recession the economy bounces back. When you get the coming recession, will that be down to Dump or will you find another excuse

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the economy is doing what economies do, after a long recession the economy bounces back

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Except, if you will check, that's not what this economy did. First of all, there was no "long recession". The so-called Great Recession lasted about eighteen months. Mr. Obama had eight years and the economy was no better than sluggish. We are now in record low levels of unemployment and in much better shape than under Obama. So this is not a recovery from a recession, but rather a recovery from a sluggish recovery.

If you will check your history, you will find that the economy did not "bounce back" from the worst recession in American history. The Great Depression lasted about ten years and was only stopped by the industrial growth of WW2. Not that I disagree with your basic statement. Recovery generally follows recession, so true enough, but that is not really the case with this present situation. And I say that as no big fan of Trump, but rather as someone who believes in giving credit where credit is due.

As to your name calling, I never realized how childish it looks until I got to this board. Someone disagrees with you, they must be a dupe. President is a "dufus", "idiot", or a "Dump". That is often what happens when a person is motivated by anger or hate, or possibly has nothing really useful to say.

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nothing really useful to say.

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yes I have noted that is your response to much of what is posted here. With an attitude like that why do you bother?

Right wing revisionist history or spin won't change the fact we were headed in a very good direction economically before the dufus got here after a very extreme global negative event. The hypocrisy of your words here start with not giving the previous prez his credit due but instead twisting the facts to suit your narrative, prejudicial at best. Just like your name calling meme when its a verified FACT he is a bully who lies cheats and steals, just like his daddy taught him, which he took to like a duck to water.

Now he is rewarding the Saudis with nuclear technology, trying to start a war with Iran that congress has yet to be briefed about and continues this tariff nonsense with China. Yeah I would say he is a dufus. See I can give him the credit he is due too.

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Right wing revisionist history or spin won't change the fact we were headed in a very good direction economically before the dufus got here after a very extreme global negative event. The hypocrisy of your words here start with not giving the previous prez his credit due but instead twisting the facts to suit your narrative, prejudicial at best.

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9 trillion of additional federal debt bought us a sluggish economy that, at least, was not in recession. That's the credit I give him. If you want me to say that at least the wheels did not fall off the cart, then fine, but the fact is he had the weakest recovery from a recession EVER.

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Just like your name calling meme when its a verified FACT he is a bully who lies cheats and steals, just like his daddy taught him, which he took to like a duck to water.

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I think in some ways that is a fair criticism, but it is also true that Obama had no problems with lying when he thought it would advance his cause.

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Now he is rewarding the Saudis with nuclear technology, trying to start a war with Iran that congress has yet to be briefed about and continues this tariff nonsense with China. Yeah I would say he is a dufus. See I can give him the credit he is due too.

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I think you are over-reaching, but time will tell. My biggest criticism of Trump is that, in the middle of an amazingly good economy, we are still running enormous deficits. I guess that is at least one way that dems and repubs work together.

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yes I have noted that is your response to much of what is posted here. With an attitude like that why do you bother?

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I rest my case.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

9 trillion of additional federal debt bought us a sluggish economy that, at least, was not in recession. That's the credit I give him. If you want me to say that at least the wheels did not fall off the cart, then fine, but the fact is he had the weakest recovery from a recession EVER.

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Let's be clear, the economy was only sluggish for some of us. Others have made out very well, in fact they have done great. Give Obama credit though, because part of his deficit spending was in tax cuts for the middle class, and putting the costs of wars we were engaged in ON THE BOOKS. That's a real big deal for any fiscal stability. I must point out here that the repubs took the congress and refused to upgrade bridges, roads, schools and other infrastructure projects because the PAY for was a tax on the rich guys who weathered the financial crisis just fine. They still have not gotten an infrastructure bill together. Let's face it, deficits and debt is challenging but managing it is what's important.

I'm waiting for the Chinese and others who are tariffed now to stop buying American debts or reduce what they buy and we will see about this great economy built on debts that enriched the ones that had the great resources already. So let's not put all the blame for your so called weak recovery without examining the role the congress has played in the fiscal management of the counties money and the health of the states and localities that depend on that fiscal management.

Nor ignore the reality of those at the top setting the market policy with those windfalls over the decades that took the traditional jobs overseas for the cheap labor while importing products we no longer make. You make me laugh when you credit the dufus who stepped into a good economy without recognizing the hard work that got it there in the first place. It's like rich guys taking credit for building a great nation built on the backs of slaves and minorities and poor people and ordinary folks.

Keep holding your nose at the dufus corruption, and pointing out how everybody else is so morally corrupt.

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I think in some ways that is a fair criticism, but it is also true that Obama had no problems with lying when he thought it would advance his cause.

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That may explain your defending the biggest liar we have ever had in the WH, but doesn't justify it. According to you replacing one liar for a BIFFER one is the solution to our problem...REALLY?

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I think you are over-reaching, but time will tell. My biggest criticism of Trump is that, in the middle of an amazingly good economy, we are still running enormous deficits. I guess that is at least one way that dems and repubs work together.

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There you go again, dismissing the obvious again. Jared gets money from Saudis the dufus gives the Saudis NUKES. Over reaching? That's only the tip of the iceberg.

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That may explain your defending the biggest liar we have ever had in the WH, but doesn't justify it

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.

I don't know of a bigger lie ever told than Obama's lie about Benghazi.

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There you go again, dismissing the obvious again. Jared gets money from Saudis the dufus gives the Saudis NUKES. Over reaching? That's only the tip of the iceberg.

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And you're the same guy who said Trump conspired with the Russkies.

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Let's be clear, the economy was only sluggish for some of us.

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I'm glad to see you admit that the economy was sluggish.

This is all very simple. It is the current norm for American politics and is called partisanship. People hate Trump for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is his apparent arrogance, and so grab at every slender thread to try and bring him down. They lose all ability to be reasonable. Everyone is in danger of going down this road.

You know the thing about Trump is he can't have done all this on his own, he had help from the swamp critters

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

.

I don't know of a bigger lie ever told than Obama's lie about Benghazi.



And you're the same guy who said Trump conspired with the Russkies.



I'm glad to see you admit that the economy was sluggish.

This is all very simple. It is the current norm for American politics and is called partisanship. People hate Trump for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is his apparent arrogance, and so grab at every slender thread to try and bring him down. They lose all ability to be reasonable. Everyone is in danger of going down this road.

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Your reply is as lame as it gets. Read Tal's post 5 or 10 times until it gets through that thick skull of yours.

Equating Obama with Trump is breathtakingly stupid. Have you read a newspaper or watch TV in the last 3 years? Trump's lies and daily idiocy is there for the entire world to see. His ignorance is staggering - see tariffs, diplomacy, NATO, emoluments, cabinet selections, etc., etc. need I go on?

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

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I don't know of a bigger lie ever told than Obama's lie about Benghazi.

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He said it was a terrorist attack the following Monday, and there were NUMEROUS investigations since, including 7 by REPUBS. Can we not hold the dufus to the same standard?

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And you're the same guy who said Trump conspired with the Russkies.

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Now that's a shame since you have not read the report, just relying on what the dufus and his sycophants are saying. If you did you would know for FACT they are lying to your face. Fact is he is still colluding with the Ruskies, since it worked so well for him before.

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I'm glad to see you admit that the economy was sluggish.

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Don't twist my words, I specified who it was sluggish for.

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This is all very simple. It is the current norm for American politics and is called partisanship. People hate Trump for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is his apparent arrogance, and so grab at every slender thread to try and bring him down. They lose all ability to be reasonable. Everyone is in danger of going down this road.

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Yes it's silly season, and the dufus has to keep his support in line for the election, and he got you with LIES and bombastic antics, and he has to keep lying to keep it. It's beyond arrogance, it's survival. Just because you like it doesn't mean I have to, nor anyone else which is the majority of the country. Foolish to think those opposed to him should rollover and let him do as he pleases don't you think?

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He said it was a terrorist attack the following Monday, and there were NUMEROUS investigations since, including 7 by REPUBS. Can we not hold the dufus to the same standard?

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Then why did he send Susan Rice on to FIVE Sunday morning news programs to say it was not a terrorist attack but just a spontaneous mob action? You need to stop drinking the Kool Aid.

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Now that's a shame since you have not read the report, just relying on what the dufus and his sycophants are saying. If you did you would know for FACT they are lying to your face. Fact is he is still colluding with the Ruskies, since it worked so well for him before.

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I think you are the only person in America who still believes that. It seems to me that your hatred of Trump tends to blind you. I used to see the same thing on the other side with people who hated Obama. Now it is possible that Trump colluded with the Russians, but Mueller stated he did not find sufficient evidence to prove a criminal case, so there you go. And that was a man who staffed his investigation with a bunch of left-wing people who desperately wanted to nail Trump, but after nearly two years could not do so due to a lack of evidence.

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Foolish to think those opposed to him should rollover and let him do as he pleases don't you think?

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I doubt that will happen, nor should it, but keeping it honest and non-hateful would be helpful.

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Your reply is as lame as it gets. Read Tal's post 5 or 10 times until it gets through that thick skull of yours.

Equating Obama with Trump is breathtakingly stupid. Have you read a newspaper or watch TV in the last 3 years? Trump's lies and daily idiocy is there for the entire world to see. His ignorance is staggering - see tariffs, diplomacy, NATO, emoluments, cabinet selections, etc., etc. need I go on?

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Just more of the name calling. Are you always this angry?

I do not like tariffs . That being said ;the Chinese cannot be allowed to continue breaking treaty agreements and stealing intellectual property.

http://fortune.com/2019/03/01/china-ip-theft/

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/28/1-in...year-cnbc.html

There was an agreement in principle that the Chinese backed away from ? Instead the Chinese have been hiring swamp critters to serve as foreign agents on their behalf including former Speaker Bonehead and former Senator Joe Lieberman .

https://www.thedailybeast.com/meet-t...obby-for-china

https://www.opensecrets.org/news/201...com-giant-zte/

The Chinese think they can wait Trump out because of all the domestic heat he takes from the opposition due to the false accusations that he was helped by the Russians to win the election. When he is reelected they won't get as good a deal.

If you think the 12ers in Tehran should be allowed to develop nukes you are as nutty as they are .There is no possible agreement where they have nukes and the world or the region is more stable

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I do not like tariffs . That being said ;the Chinese cannot be allowed to continue breaking treaty agreements and stealing intellectual property.

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Pretty well sums it up.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Just more of the name calling. Are you always this angry?

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No. I'm only this angry when a New York street thug takes over the presidency of this once-great country. He puts children in cages and hobnobs with global fascists. He "loves" a dictator who is on a par with the worst human beings ever in public life. He is a dangerous narcissist who threatens the security of the entire planet. Most importantly, he is clearly mentally disabled and cannot be trusted to wield the enormous military power that is the US. As I write this, he is playing war games with Iran, putting American soldiers and sailors in jeopardy to satisfy his bizarre hatred of anything Obama ever accomplished.

Is the American electorate at fault? Yes, without a doubt, at least partially and based on an antiquated system of counting votes. A fair vote counting puts Hillary Clinton as president.

Trump's behavior by now should convince those who voted for him that they made a mistake, but it also behooves the rest of us to understand why. If conditions are perceived by those voters as so bad that they made a desperate choice, then it's time for the rest of us to alleviate those problems to the degree they can be solved.

We are NOT two nations. E pluribus unam. We should all be our brother's keeper. If we truly practice this philosophy, we will never see the likes of a Trump again.

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Trump's behavior by now should convince those who voted for him that they made a mistake, but it also behooves the rest of us to understand why. If conditions are perceived by those voters as so bad that they made a desperate choice, then it's time for restthe of us to alleviate those problems to the degree they can be solved.

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Many of us voted for Trump simply because the alternative was unimaginably bad. If the dems will run a candidate that understands the economy, will commit to a balanced budget and to a stoppage of packing SCOTUS with SJW's who use the power of the bench to legislate, then I will seriously consider that person. Instead we see, with I believe the exception of Biden, a complete commitment to an idiotic Green New Deal that will cost tens of trillions of dollars which we plainly do not have. So even though I am no admirer of Trump, for now I see no alternative to the craziness which has become the dem party.

If we all truly became our brother's keeper, you would still have poverty, but we would need no welfare program, so you certainly make a valid point. Some people are poor because they became sick, are mentally ill, made some bad choices, etc, but others are poor because they just will not make responsible choices. Many in the first group can be helped, but good luck with the second group. If you were helping that second group personally, with your own money, then you would soon put an end to it.

Thank you for the reasoned reply. I do understand where you are coming from.

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bizarre hatred of anything Obama ever accomplished.

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How's that working for you (bizarre hatred towered Trump)?

What we hate will ruin us.

More of us didn't vote for the dufus. We knew he was a crook and didn't need Mueller to tell us that. Oh how the right hollered and screamed for 8 years, but play dumb now that the shoe is on the other foot. It would be hilarious if not for the seriousness of the level of corruption we have risen too.

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Oh how they right hollered and screamed for 8 years, but play dumb now that the shoe is on the other foot.

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Yes, just like you just ignore Obama's lying about Benghazi and the four Americans who died there needlessly. Partisanship. We both do it, but you don't like to admit to it.

I ignored the Obama lies, you ignore the dufus lies, that makes us both idiots for ignoring the lies. Admit it, you're as dumb and stupid as I am!

Finally, we agree on something! That really made me laugh, probably because it is closer to being true that I might care to admit.

SEE! It's more relaxing to agree on something if not EVERYTHING. Lets have a great day. At least until I find some more rocks to chunk at ya.

Roger that.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Admit it, your as dumb and stupid as I am!

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Such bipartisan reparte'. I didn't think it possible that you could have such insight


Tell me Tal, if you ignored Obama's lies, Why are you bleating about Trump?

The truth is, we vote for people based on issues more than character. I voted for Trump because of his support for issues important to me. Tal voted for Obama because of issues important to him. I assume the same is true in Aussie land. Then we tend to overlook his mistakes so long as he continues to promote policies we agree with. If we waited for someone with great character to come along, we wouldn't have presidents in most years. That's a sad observation but basically, I think, true.

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Originally Posted by paraclete

Such bipartisan reparte'. I didn't think it possible that you could have such insight


Tell me Tal, if you ignored Obama's lies, Why are you bleating about Trump?

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Because I can. As my friend says we vote, a truly "civil" war of ideas and thoughts. We can disagree about the LIES each side tells, but neither side is perfect, and all politicians spin because they want our votes. No matter who you vote for, or why, that's your right isn't it? I just think that Obama's lies don't even come close to the lies the dufus and his elected and appointed sycophants tell. He is way over the boundaries of good behavior in my book.

That's my opinion and obviously not shared by everyone, but in America we can express those opinions, vote and move on. There is always an election coming. That's what makes us great! So JL is spot on in that regard.

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all politicians spin because they want our votes.

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Very true observation.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Because I can. As my friend says we vote, a truly "civil" war of ideas and thoughts. We can disagree about the LIES each side tells, but neither side is perfect, and all politicians spin because they want our votes. No matter who you vote for, or why, that's your right isn't it? I just think that Obama's lies don't even come close to the lies the dufus and his elected and appointed sycophants tell. He is way over the boundaries of good behavior in my book.

That's my opinion and obviously not shared by everyone, but in America we can express those opinions, vote and move on. There is always an election coming. That's what makes us great! So JL is spot on in that regard.

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Let me try and answer both of you, firstly Tal, you show no sign of moving on, you are stuck in a rut. One might say it is a Trump sized pot hole. I am a conservative voter, that is because I abhor waste and around here the left wastes every opportunity it is given. There was a time when there was great reform, visionary reform, but it was only achieved by consensus, a government actually taking the people with it. But that era also spawned the idea that if the leader didn't move over for the deputy, or some other ego, he should be replaced immediately. And what do we have, a government that cannot do anything. Sound familiar

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what do we have, a government that cannot do anything. Sound familiar

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I see your point and think it is a good one. However, it is rather frequently true that a government not doing anything can be a very good thing. In fact, for those of us who favor a minimalist government, and view government as not the enemy but very much not our good friend, then the idea of the government doing nothing very often sounds good. So far, our government needs to have done about 22 trillion dollars less than it has done. The Constitution clearly lays out five basic functions for the federal government. 1. Establish a system of justice (courts and laws). 2. Provide for the common defense. 3. Promote the general (not the individual) welfare. 4. Insure domestic tranquility. 5. Secure the blessings (Wow! A religious term!) of liberty for us and our posterity.

Additionally, the tenth amendment says that only the federal government only has the powers expressly delegated to it by the Constitution. If we would follow these ideas, our federal government would stay in its place, and the states would do most of the governing.

Circle the calendar folks, me and JL mostly agree! OMG! No matter who you vote for or who gets elected the average citizen has no choice but to move on and handle the business of our daily lives Clete. Personally I cannot afford to be stuck and not deal with REALITY since it's up front and personal.

What you think I just sit and wait for you guys all the time. I wish I could! 8D Some days are busier than others but I do have a life, as well as opinions to share, cause I care.

Cool?

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Tell me Tal, if you ignored Obama's lies, Why are you bleating about Trump?

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Maybe because Trump is the Master of the Game. It's not about lying, to cover up the truth, It's much, much more than that.
Trump is setting a whole new standard. “It’s not just that Trump lies, it is that he lies with purpose—blatantly, to assert power over truth itself.” To alter reality. It’s the lying, the kind of thoroughgoing lying that gives rise to a whole new reality or, better still, to no reality at all.

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An idiot at work?

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Nothing new.

yeah there is some real bipartisanship going on these days . Even the Schmuckster supports Trump's China initiatives .



https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images...nx2Os2_x96.jpg

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Chuck Schumer



@SenSchumer

Hang tough on China, President @realDonaldTrump
. Don’t back down.

Strength is the only way to win with China.

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But Dem front runner Joe Biden doesn't think China is a threat . That's because his families wealth is tied to the Chinese stealing drone technology and other intellectual property from the US.

https://theintercept.com/2019/05/03/...hina-business/

Trump and Schumer agreeing is quite an event, but that's nothing compared to Tal and I agreeing. It has been a great two days.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Circle the calendar folks, me and JL mostly agree! OMG! No matter who you vote for or who gets elected the average citizen has no choice but to move on and handle the business of our daily lives Clete. Personally I cannot afford to be stuck and not deal with REALITY since it's up front and personal.

What you think I just sit and wait for you guys all the time. I wish I could! 8D Some days are busier than others but I do have a life, as well as opinions to share, cause I care.

Cool?

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Ok Tal I've put an X on the wall with a date. We all have busy lives Tal, today I'm busy ignoring politicians

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

The Constitution clearly lays out five basic functions for the federal government. 1. Establish a system of justice (courts and laws). 2. Provide for the common defense. 3. Promote the general (not the individual) welfare. 4. Insure domestic tranquility. 5. Secure the blessings

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When you quote the US Constitution to support your position or prove your point, and then you misquote that document by adding terms not there in the original, you lose all credibility and are seen as someone who will say whatever they want for whatever reason.

Very much like Donald Trump does every day.

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When you quote the US Constitution to support your position or prove your point, and then you misquote that document by adding terms not there in the original, you lose all credibility and are seen as someone who will say whatever they want for whatever reason.

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I didn't quote the Constitution, so I couldn't have misquoted it. I was going largely from memory, but I think I accurately reflected what the preamble says. I noted my comments by plainly putting them in parenthesis which is a very common practice. If I lost credibility with you, it's because you disagree with my thinking or comments but don't seem to be able to simply explain why, so you instead just lash out. If you have something of substance to say, why not just point out where you think I'm wrong?

You still seem like an angry person to me.