Yep, Hugo Chavez is dead according to the AP.
What's next for Venezuela? What will Sean Penn, Danny Glover and Naomi Campbell do without him?
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Yep, Hugo Chavez is dead according to the AP.
What's next for Venezuela? What will Sean Penn, Danny Glover and Naomi Campbell do without him?
Maybe Sean will run for office down there. It seems his career here isn't worth much these days.
Perhaps they will get another man of the people, or as suggested the US will drop a candidate in
Apparently, Chavez was infected with cancer by the U.S. according to his number 2 guy. Well, if so there are some guys in Iran that could use an infection.
First to mourn Hugo, Rep. Jose Serrano, D-N.Y:
Next up, British MP George Galloway:Quote:
Jose E. Serrano @RepJoseSerrano
Hugo Chavez was a leader that understood the needs of the poor. He was committed to empowering the powerless. R.I.P. Mr. President.
And then Jimmy Carter:Quote:
The death of Hugo Chavez at just 58 is a body blow for the poor and the oppressed, throughout Latin America and the wider world.
But at last, a more fitting tribute.Quote:
Statement From Former U.S. President Jimmy Carter
On the Death of Hugo Chavez
Rosalynn and I extend our condolences to the family of Hugo Chávez Frías. We met Hugo Chávez when he was campaigning for president in 1998 and The Carter Center was invited to observe elections for the first time in Venezuela. We returned often, for the 2000 elections, and then to facilitate dialogue during the political conflict of 2002-2004. We came to know a man who expressed a vision to bring profound changes to his country to benefit especially those people who had felt neglected and marginalized. Although we have not agreed with all of the methods followed by his government, we have never doubted Hugo Chávez's commitment to improving the lives of millions of his fellow countrymen.
President Chávez will be remembered for his bold assertion of autonomy and independence for Latin American governments and for his formidable communication skills and personal connection with supporters in his country and abroad to whom he gave hope and empowerment. During his 14-year tenure, Chávez joined other leaders in Latin America and the Caribbean to create new forms of integration. Venezuelan poverty rates were cut in half, and millions received identification documents for the first time allowing them to participate more effectively in their country's economic and political life.
At the same time, we recognize the divisions created in the drive towards change in Venezuela and the need for national healing. We hope that as Venezuelans mourn the passing of President Chávez and recall his positive legacies — especially the gains made for the poor and vulnerable — the political leaders will move the country forward by building a new consensus that ensures equal opportunities for all Venezuelans to participate in every aspect of national life.
Quote:
Hugo Chavez's death is a body blow for the poor and oppressed throughout Latin America
I can smell the sulfur
Sean Penn lost a friend .
As for the next Latin American dictator the left will fall in love with... I predict it will be Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner of Argentina(CFK) . Already the 12ers of Tehran were making gestures towards a future relationship with Argentina since Chavez took ill. She is about to strike a deal with Iran over the 1994 terror bombing of a Jewish center in Buenos Aires that killed 85 people .A panel investigated it ,and criminally blamed Hezzbollah ,and Iran for the attack. Many of the Iranians named are in line for leadership in the regime,including Amad Vahidi ,the Minister of Defense ,and a possible successor to the Mahdi Hatter . Interpol issued arrest warrants.
But the 2 nations have increased relations on all fronts in recent years .Argentina is a major supplier of Agriculture commodities to Iran .
CFK has also ramped up rhetoric over the Falkland Islands ,and may make a move to seize them soon.
I visualize Hugo bent over a table in Hell getting his butt reamed for enternity by the Devil himself. Problem is the sick SOB probibly would be enjoying it.
He was a threat to America, hated America, but sold us Millions of Dollars worth of oil. He loved Iran, Russia, China, and North Korea.
There is already a man to take his place, according the TV News, who might be just the opposite in actions.
There's his VP who is just as like him (see above where he blamed the US for infecting him with cancer), and another Chavez guy, National Assembly leader Diosdado Cabell. One of the two will likely be interim president until a "special election" where hopefully a decent opposition candidate might have a chance.
no chance... but Jimmy Carter will be there as an observed to certify the results.Yeah that's right... I blame Carter for rubber stamping Chavez' reign of terror.Quote:
where hopefully a decent opposition candidate might have a chance.
Get real! What could an observer have done to prevent the will of the people? Tom, you guys love democracy only when it fits within your plans and supports your capitalist extortion of under developed countries. Chavez made a difference, as Carter said; he didn't always agree with his methods. What Chavez did was to expose american hypocrisy and that didn't earn him any brownie points and he made it plain america doesn't rule South America and you hate him for that. Like all of america's enemies he made friends with those that america dislikes. They are a select club.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
What we could hope for now is that Venezeula will move forward and be more open with its relationships with all countries in the americas
Chavez amassed a two billion dollar fortune off his people. Get real clete, Chavez was about Chavez and his economy is a disaster now.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
The murder rate in Chavez's Utopia land quadrupled... it made Juarez Mexico seem like the Vatican for safety.
Venezuela's Economy Under Chavez, by the Numbers - Real Time Economics - WSJ
Yes undoubtedly there were bad points but he lifted millions out of poverty even if it was at the expense of capitalists. What dictator doesn't raid the public purse, we have come to expect it and how do we know american presidents don't raid the public purse as well after all look at your debt
What millions? The middle class has all but disappeared, and far more people are in poverty than before his reign as dictator... the so-called poor never saw a dime of oil revenue... Hugo kept that 2 billion for himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
Inflation was rampant... and still is... and no poor person has ever prospered under that...
This just in... Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead! ;)
Key word, dictator.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
Hello Steve:
Key word, elected.Quote:
Key word, dictator.
Excon
Ah, so you're a fan, too.
Hello again, Steve:
I didn't know calling a spade a spade meant that I was a commie..
Clearly, you wingers don't care much about the language. Bummer for you.
excon
Most dictators initially get elected ;and usually have favorable turnouts in rigged elections thereafter .
As witnessed in the so-called elections in the old Soviet Union... and Cuba as two examples... an election isn't always really an election.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
If Chavez hadn't made a difference no one would morne his passing, I think the mobs speak for themselves, but if you want to take your opinions from disident expats in Florida
Really... history proves you wrong. Look at the mourning for Stalin and Mao after they killed tens of Millions... they made Adolph Hitler look like a rank amateur as far as mass murder is concerned.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
Clete, Hitler's people loved him, too.
Hello again, wingers:
Chavez was a popularly elected socialist president.. He did what you THINK socialists do, and that's GIVE free stuff to the poor. And, he did. That's why they like him. It's also the reason why you shouldn't like him... But, to compare him with Hitler and the other mass murderers is just BONKERS...
But, I'm used to your bonkerism.. That's why I'm here.
excon
Speech, it seems some have an ability to take the people with them, but he is gone and a new era emerges, we should focus on that and stop this glass half full rubbishQuote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
So was Adolph Hitler... lets see you heap some praise on him too... he actually did more for the German people than Chavez did for his.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
The left thinks that repeating the big lie long enough will make it come true . The truth is that the people of Venezuela are far worse off because of the Chavez model compared to their immediate neighbors like Colombia, Brazil, Peru, Costa Rica, Panama have been adopting a free market approach .Inflation has been rampant and that has forced the people to spend an increasing share of their wealth on basic necessities... that is when goods have been available in this land of scarcity .Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Yes they were seduced by his populist rhetoric filling their minds with utopian dreams while he destroyed the democratic institutions in the country and plundered the treasury of the people's wealth. He turned an upcoming South American country ,loaded with the potential of it's energy wealth ,into a failed third world country .
When Chavez needed to get treated for cancer ,did he find it in his own country ? No .He ended up going to that land where according to Michael Moore ,health care is superior (Chavez is now the poster boy for the Cuban health care system)
So admire the tyrannical thug. He claimed to be the successor of the Bolivarian revolution ;but he was horse dung on Simon Bolivar's boots.
Double post
Making such comparisons is foolish, but if we wanted to say that Venezeula, because of its oil wealth, could have done much better then you are right. Social structural change is difficult to produce and your idea that a place where the elite prosper and the poor suffer might mirror the american model but it takes a generation to break the mouldQuote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
I have heard of people from highly developed countries choosing to be treated in other countries where terminal disease is concerned. Cuba has an excellent health system so why would he not seek there what wasn't available at home. What you are really saying is he should have lifted the Venezeulan health system to the standard of Cuba, last time I looked magic wands were in short supply and so are trained medical staff in many parts of the world. Tom I abhor your hypocrisyQuote:
When Chavez needed to get treated for cancer ,did he find it in his own country ? No .He ended up going to that land where according to Michael Moore ,health care is superior (Chavez is now the poster boy for the Cuban health care system)
I'll go back to Jimmy Carter again, I cannot endorse all his methods, Bolivar pushed Spain, an oppressor, out of South America, Chavez was pushing back against a modern day oppressor, american capitalism and american foreign policy and he made a difference. So he was given to rhetoric, no less than your own leaderQuote:
So admire the tyrannical thug. He claimed to be the successor of the Bolivarian revolution ;but he was horse dung on Simon Bolivar's boots.
Hello again, tom:
Chill!
I didn't say I admire him.. I'm just telling you what he did.
excon
Hugo "Dirty Sanchez" Chavez... Nationalized the oil industry.. through outright theft... then kept all the profits for himself... over 2 billion worth... nobody else ever saw a dime.
Well no doubt there will be somesort of recovery operation
All of it was in banks outside of Venezuela... in some other Bannana republic... good luck trying. But if another despot takes over.. I hope they refuse to hand it back. Who knows how much of it he spent on himself, family and friends?Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
I heard what country most of it was in... but forgot which it was. Its in that general region of the world however.
So Rich Lowry was right...Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
Quote:
For some, all is forgiven if you hate the rich with a white-hot passion and talk the language of populist redistribution, while wrapping your program in a bow of rancid, paranoid anti-Americanism. Then, every allowance will be made for your thuggery. Everyone will obsess about your colorful and charming personality. And praise you when you’re gone.
Read more: Opinion: Hugo Chávez's cheering section - Rich Lowry - POLITICO.com
You know you might be right, I'll have to try it but to get back to the question of whether the Chavez legacy is that he helped the poorQuote:
For some, all is forgiven if you hate the rich with a white-hot passion and talk the language of populist redistribution, while wrapping your program in a bow of rancid, paranoid anti-Americanism. Then, every allowance will be made for your thuggery. Everyone will obsess about your colorful and charming personality. And praise you when you're gone.
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/03/08/wo...html?hpt=hp_c1
As this piece says
That the man was an economic trogladite seems to be a mute point, he help other nations too, but of course he did so in the face of american foreign policy so obviously he will not be eulogised in the northQuote:
The formula is so simple it makes you wonder why nobody though of it before. After all, a 22-year-old single mother of two in Petare, Chapeu Mangueira, Chimalhuacan or Ciudad Bolivar, doesn't care about macroeconomic policies or free market economies, but about a leader who will make it possible to feed her children tomorrow. And to millions of Venezuelans, that was Hugo Chavez.
Oh yeah, he propped up Castro - that's another bright spot on his resume. How much better off would his own people have been had he not shifted so much of their oil wealth to that communist country? You've got it bad, Clete, you'd fit right in here with our anti-American left.
Is that anti american or anti right wing capitalist B/S. I make no secret of the fact I don't like your foreign policy settings, You could have done much to lift Cuba but instead you created an enemy who made a wrong choice a long time ago and in your eyes are still the enemy. You have the same view of NK after 60 years. It is no wonder people like Chavez rail against you. The reality is different expressions of political life can exist and even flourish, no one wants or likes the excesses, prove to me there are not excesses in your own society, but proper dialogue rather than belligerence can produce a different resultQuote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
It's interesting that after Chavez's 14 years in power that not one of the other major Latin American countries are following his example - not Mexico, not Brazil, not Chile, not Peru not Columbia - none of them. This despite Chavez's vision of a united region and defiance of the US, sweetened with cheap oil given to needy neighbors. It seems the disaster he caused on his country's economy - including rampant inflation, chronic shortages, and the lowest economic growth in the region - is not something others want to emulate. The poverty rate did go down in Venezualea, and that is the main reason for his popularity. But it also went down in other countries and without destroying their economic futures. So his legacy will be limited - which is enough to restore one's faith in the future of the region for those fortunate enough to not live in Venezuela.
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