Ask Me Help Desk

Ask Me Help Desk (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/forum.php)
-   Current Events (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=486)
-   -   News from across the pond, for a change... (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=734214)

  • Feb 14, 2013, 03:12 PM
    Curlyben
    News from across the pond, for a change...
    Has anyone been following the UK "scandal" of processed beef products containing, up to, 100% HORSE meat?

    Quote:

    Q&A: Horsemeat scandal

    http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/image...8_91825234.jpg
    Continue reading the main story
    Horsemeat scandal





    The government has said thall processed beef products on sale in the UK are safe to eat despite up to 100% horsemeat being found in some Aldi and Findus products, which were removed from shelves last week. That followed the discovery of horsemeat in some burgers.
    BBC News - Q&A: Horsemeat scandal
    www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21457188


    What are you thoughts?
  • Feb 14, 2013, 03:25 PM
    tomder55
    Quote:

    Has anyone been following the UK "scandal" of processed beef products containing, up to, 100% HORSE meat?
    Neigh
  • Feb 14, 2013, 03:30 PM
    tomder55
    I had horse burgers when I was a kid. Would not had known the difference if I wasn't told . With some of the Brit recipes I've experienced ,it's possible that horse meat would be an improvement .
  • Feb 14, 2013, 03:31 PM
    speechlesstx
    I don't eat horse meat but a lot of people do. But don't call it "beef," that's just wrong. How did they find out, did someone's Big Mac whinny?
  • Feb 14, 2013, 03:32 PM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    neigh

    Lol
  • Feb 14, 2013, 04:38 PM
    paraclete
    Perish the though we should talk about the events in another place. Must be a slow day.

    I have eaten horse meat, wouldn't do it for preference anymore than I would eat Kangaroo. It has a very obvious flavour and texture. Used to feed it a lot to dogs.

    The brits would eat anything, it is expensive to live there
  • Feb 14, 2013, 04:50 PM
    NeedKarma
    Quote:

    neigh
    Well played sir. :D Greenie for you.
  • Feb 14, 2013, 05:31 PM
    tickle
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by speechlesstx View Post
    I don't eat horse meat but a lot of people do. But don't call it "beef," that's just wrong. How did they find out, did someone's Big Mac whinny?

    They found out by DNA testing
  • Feb 14, 2013, 05:37 PM
    tickle
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by paraclete View Post
    perish teh though we should talk about the events in another place. Must be a slow day.

    I have eaten horse meat, wouldn't do it for preference anymore than I would eat Kangaroo. It has a very obvious flavour and texture. Used to feed it a lot to dogs.

    The brits would eat anything, it is expensive to live there

    That is the kind of response I would expect from anyone you. You have done yourself proud.
  • Feb 14, 2013, 05:46 PM
    tickle
    Yes, CB, have been following it here. The French consider it a delicacy. So the use is not new of course, but UK problem is so wide spread it is alarming.

    I hope it doesn't catch on here, with our horse racing industry going down the tubes because of high feed prices, we may be consuming some of Northern Dancer's offspring soon.
  • Feb 14, 2013, 06:19 PM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tickle View Post
    That is the kind of response I would expect from anyone you. You have done yourself proud.

    I remember my time in the UK fondly, couldn't afford decent cuts of meat or even a hamburger, actually I might have settled for horse meat.

    Where I come from horse meat is only available as dog food these days, special abbatoirs for those kinds of meat, but we know that in Europe horse meat is a delicacy, but not in the UK apparently, but you can't trust those frogs, they will serve up anything
  • Feb 15, 2013, 05:29 AM
    tickle
    Horses, young or old nowadays at auction, if not taken are sold so much for the pound and taken to the abbatoirs. I should correct that really, they always were because no one wanted to keep them and feed them to be sold leisurely.

    Canadian wild horses are rounded up now and sent to the abbatoirs; especially for human consumption in Quebec and Europe.
  • Feb 15, 2013, 06:37 AM
    tomder55
    If someone has a palatable recipe I'd be willing to try it . The price is right .
    U.S. horses sold for $50 for food
  • Feb 15, 2013, 07:17 AM
    tickle
    You couldn't tell the different really in taste between cow and horse. It is cooked much the same way; horsemeat is not gamey, and usually much more tender then cow.

    Yes, unfortunately the price is too right for people who love horses. If you ever saw how they were led into a stainless steel stall by a person they trust, don't forget they are somewhat smarter then cattle, a person is waiting at the top of the stall with something similar to a nail gun. You can imagine the rest.
  • Feb 15, 2013, 07:34 AM
    speechlesstx
    It has been an issue in Texas for several years, when the packing plants closed here the horses were exported to Mexico and Canada. The American Quarter Horse Association (headquartered right here in my home town and also the home of "pink slime") argues it's a necessity " for horses that might otherwise continue a life of discomfort and pain, or inadequate care or abandonment."

    Veterinarian and cowboy humorist Baxter Black has the right perspective on the issue.

    Quote:

    On the Edge of Common Sense
    By Baxter Black

    Continuing saga of abandoned horses

    I had a visit with the president of the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) recently about the abandoned horse issue. My question to him was, “Since the problem is a direct result of the banning of equine slaughter plants, for which your group led the charge, what are you willing to do to help those of us who have inherited the responsibility for the mess you have made?”

    We discussed the woefully inadequate plan to put them in “refuges.” We both agreed that euthanasia is not a bad thing, but dumping your unwanted horse along the roadside, in private pastures or on park land to die of starvation is not humane.

    We considered having equine animal shelters, like dog pounds. Maybe one in every state that would accept horses at no charge, hold them for 30 days in hopes they could be adopted, then euthanasia. The facility should include a free pick-up service, a large “feedlot” to hold them and a rendering plant. He did not readily agree that his group would finance this national program. But they are the richest animal rights group in the world and what better way, I thought, to put their money where their convictions are.

    The HSUS has made legitimate criticism of how some horses destined for distant slaughter plants in Canada and Mexico are transported. We livestock people are responsible for the animals in our care from conception until death. We cannot turn a blind eye to double-decked trucks, too-long hauls and mistreatment. The Departments of Transportation and Agriculture should have laws that guarantee the horses’ well-being. We should ensure their enforcement.

    It’s good that we are talking, but this winter the public’s awareness of the problem, and their deeper understanding of the cause, seems to be lifting the veil of the ignorance which often blinds the naïve but well-meaning, be they horse lovers, politicians or journalists. Starving horses are not a pretty sight.

    Three states, with more to come, North Dakota, Wyoming and Montana, are taking steps to examine the construction of horse slaughter plants to replace the ones the animal righters have had banned in Texas and Illinois. The day these new plants open up, the abandoned horse problem, with all its unintended abuse, will disappear. There would be a place for them to go.

    There are several groups scrabbling around for answers this cold winter to save unwanted horses from the misjudgment of these well-intentioned but irresponsible “animal lovers.” I hear from them regularly. I suggest if you are one of these sale barn operators, ranchers, park rangers, farmers or rural residents who have inherited the problem, take photos of the horses, good or bad, that have been dumped in your area. Then when a new state applies for a permit to build a new horse slaughter plant and the animal rights groups protest, we will have an entire “Gallery of Abandoned Horses” to show the public the inhumanity of their policy. These photos would be very convincing. Our facts versus their perception. Of course, we could put pictures of abandoned horses on milk cartons with the caption “Brought to you by HSUS, PETA and the ‘Frenchmen Should Not Eat Horsemeat Society!’”
    Just don't call it beef. We don't much like the idea of eating our horses in these parts.
  • Feb 15, 2013, 08:17 AM
    tickle
    I don't much like the issue either, we don't like eating horses 'in these parts'.

    Unfortunately here in Ontario, it is near impossible to feed horses if you own and breed them. It used to cost $800 per month to feed hay to about five horses, now it costs $2000 a month. With the possible demise of the horse racing industry here in Ontario, harness racing, etc. owners of good bloodlines are having to make some tough choices while trying to find homes for them to people who can afford to care for them; rather them make the ultimate decision.

    I live in an area of southeast Ontario where horses are a way of life still and I know for sure I would not want to make decisions like this.

    Tick, a horse lover
  • Feb 15, 2013, 08:23 AM
    tomder55
    I am conflicted because I have seen the pixs of horses who's owners recently have stopped feeding them because of the explosion in the price of hay .
    Abandoned: Horse Abuse a Growing Problem

    Couple that with the fact that the wild horse population has exploded ,and the Bureau of Land Management culls the herds ,perhaps they are an option as a food source... much like the White Tail deer is here (or should be ) .
  • Feb 15, 2013, 08:30 AM
    speechlesstx
    Better to have FDA regulated slaughter of such horses for food?
  • Feb 15, 2013, 01:07 PM
    tickle
    Canadian wild horses are not considered, and are not advertised as a food source here. I have never heard of horses being shipped overseas for food from the US but then, that would not necessarily be newsworthy here.
  • Feb 15, 2013, 07:53 PM
    tomder55
    I hear someone was hospitalized after eating the horse meat... but the good news is that he's in stable condition... and other Twitter puns :

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...witter-1537054
  • Feb 15, 2013, 08:03 PM
    Alty
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    I hear someone was hospitalized after eating the horse meat ....but the good news is that he's in stable condition..........and other Twitter puns :

    Tesco horse burger meat Twitter jokes and puns - Mirror Online

    I have no comment on this, I just want to thank tomber for the giggles. :)
  • Feb 15, 2013, 08:42 PM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    if someone has a palatable recipe I'd be willing to try it . The price is right .
    U.S. horses sold for $50 for food

    Tell you what Tom we kill and ship 100,0000 to Europe a year, I'm sure we could find one for you if you wanted it and it would be certified
  • Feb 16, 2013, 03:26 AM
    tomder55
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by paraclete View Post
    Tell you what Tom we kill and ship 100,0000 to Europe a year, I'm sure we could find one for you if you wanted it and it would be certified

    I would ,but my doctor is concerned about my girth .
  • Feb 16, 2013, 02:14 PM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    I would ,but my doctor is concerned about my girth .

    Well Tom horse is what you need 40% less fat and way more protein, would you like it with or without the bone
  • Feb 16, 2013, 02:16 PM
    Curlyben
    Another part of this scandal, that raised a wry smile, was the discovery of PORK in halal prison food!!

    In all honesty would this discovery put you off such products or stores?
    Is it such a moral issue to eat horse flesh...
  • Feb 16, 2013, 02:35 PM
    paraclete
    Hi Curly

    The question isn't necessarily public health but truth in packaging. Maybe this is a scam and the loosers are the packing companies but there are people with a definite objection to horse, pork and beef and so truth in packaging becomes a moral issue for them, that is aside from the simple avoidance of deceit.

    The most famous emergence of these moral Issues was the Indian Mutiny which started the process of bringing India out of British rule so the consequences for failing to respect the religious taboos for certain people resound across the world. Who knows what jihadist will use such events as an excuse
  • Feb 16, 2013, 02:44 PM
    Curlyben
    Interestingly enough this is being refereed to as contamination rather than mislabelling or fraud.
    As there is no public health issue surely contamination isn't the right approach...
  • Feb 16, 2013, 02:55 PM
    paraclete
    Contamination suggests a religious point of view unless the horse was slaughtered in a manner which makes it unfit for human consumption.

    I don't want the food I eat to contain products I don't know about and that is a legitimate view. There are things I don't wish to eat and want to exercise choice. There are many products where substitution is possible and the fast food industry and the preprepared food industry is a haven for such products
  • Feb 16, 2013, 02:56 PM
    tomder55
    I agree with Clete ,here the FDA calls it adulteration. But that wouldn't really accurate because it doesn't hold a health hazard... but clearly it is misbranding . Are they tracing it back to a specific manufacturing plant ? They say in the articles they've found horse DNA.. . But is it trace amts ? What I'm getting at is ;is it cutting the beef with horse meat ;or is it trace elements indicating poor GMP rather than outright fraud ?
  • Feb 17, 2013, 02:32 PM
    paraclete
    Yes they have traced it to specific brands and plants and even back to wholesalers and further back in the chain, the fraud took place where substitution began, this isn't just an error or a failure to clean machinery, we are talking tons of horse meat, and it emerges not just one product. So the whole chain of preprepared meals becomes suspect as does the meat packing industry in general. As I said earler Tom we slaugher 100,000 horses a year for Europe and this meat originated in Eastern Europe so who knows how many they slaughter themselves, but there is a lot of it around
  • Feb 18, 2013, 07:35 AM
    speechlesstx
    I think it's outright fraud. But if I want leaner I eat pork, no qualms about eating Porky vs. Sea Biscuit here and if you ask me, a pork cutlet makes a better chicken-fried "steak" than beef anyway.
  • Feb 18, 2013, 10:06 AM
    tickle
    Horses are normally slaughtered with a nail gun, between the eyes. There can be no contamination this way, unless it is the way the carcass is bled out and dressed.
  • Feb 19, 2013, 04:40 AM
    tomder55
    Quote:

    Many believe equine testing is just the tip of the iceberg. “I am sure this will rapidly move on to other species,” said Adam Couch, chief executive of Cranswick, a meat and pastry goods supplier, which has not been implicated in the scandal.
    Horsemeat scandal draws in Nestlé - FT.com
  • Feb 19, 2013, 06:32 AM
    paraclete
    Well there is the possibility of contamination with Pork and that opens a whole nest of goodies
  • Feb 21, 2013, 01:41 PM
    smoothy
    Horsemeat actually tastes better than a lot of what passes as Beef these days (specifically the feedlot variety).

    Yes they sell Horsemeat at specialist butcher shops in Europe...

    Yes I've had it... and yes it tastes good.

    And its odd because you actually pay a premium for horsemeat in parts of Europe.
  • Feb 21, 2013, 01:58 PM
    paraclete
    Surely not the issue, just because it tastes good doesn't mean it is an allowable substitute for beef. If I buy a beef product I expect to get beef, although around here I sometimes think they have been killing elephants. When I buy beef I don't expect to get buffalo or horse, just as when I buy chicken I don't expect to get rabbit
  • Feb 21, 2013, 02:03 PM
    smoothy
    Except... horsemeat is more expensive than beef in many parts of Europe where its sold legally.

    I'd be more upset if they were selling cat as rabbit...

    And a skinned cat does look a LOT like a skinned rabbit... if the head is removed.

    Actually I think they taste like Chicken too.

    Many years ago a Chinese restaurant I used to go to with my roomates on payday got busted for selling Kung Pao Kitty... they literally got caught with cat in their freezer and got shut down during a routine health Dept Inspection.

    Who knows how long they were doing it.
  • Feb 21, 2013, 02:15 PM
    paraclete
    Must have a big freezer, was that a drivein restraurant but I know what you mean, it is the standing joke around here about chinese restraurants that they keep the cat population down, I rarely eat chicken in a chinese restraurant
  • Feb 21, 2013, 02:21 PM
    Curlyben
    Our nearby chinese takeaway made creative use of the local duck population ;)
    Till they got busted which was a shame..
  • Feb 21, 2013, 02:24 PM
    paraclete
    Yes duck in plum sauce almost as good as mongolian rabbit

  • All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:43 AM.