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  • Jan 25, 2013, 03:10 PM
    tomder55
    Obamacare 2.0
    Quote:

    A California insurance broker, who sells health plans to individuals and small businesses, told me that she’s prepping her clients for a sticker shock. Her local carriers are hinting to her that premiums may triple this fall, when the plans unveil how they’ll billet the full brunt of Obamacare’s new regulations and mandates.

    California is hardly alone. Around the country, insurers are fixing to raise rates by double digits. They’re privately briefing politicians in Washington on what’s in store. Those briefings are leaving a lot of folks up and down Pennsylvania Avenue jumpy.
    Health Insurance Brokers Prepare Clients For Obamacare Sticker Shock - Forbes

    Quote:

    To try and get a handle on rising costs, the Obama Administration will start to go after the healthcare providers. The President seemed to hint about all this when he referenced the need to “lower the cost” of healthcare in his inaugural address.
    Yeah it's the greedy provider's fault that they have to double rates to cover all the mandates in the plan.

    Yeah the Obots were slick making sure all the low hanging fruit ;all the carrots like allowing your kids to stay on your plan until they are 26 ;women getting "free "contraception. But now that the elections are over ,it's time to pay the piper.
    But then again... maybe that was the plan all along.. a variation of what Obama told us in 2008 about his energy plan .
    Obama: My Plan Makes Electricity Rates Skyrocket - YouTube
    The cry will go up for the government ‘to do something’ and nationalization will be complete.
  • Jan 25, 2013, 03:34 PM
    speechlesstx
    Everyone is getting sticker shock in one form or another...

    Quote:

    Confused professors shocked schools are cutting their hours to avoid Obamacare penalties

    Marc Thiessen | January 23, 2013, 9:46 am

    Barack Obama is a former adjunct professor of constitutional law, and no group has been more solidly supportive of his liberal agenda than the professorial class. So it is a sweet irony that the latest group getting hammered by the mandates of Obamacare are … wait for it … adjunct professors.

    The Wall Street Journal reports:

    The federal health-care overhaul is prompting some colleges and universities to cut the hours of adjunct professors. [...] The Affordable Care Act requires large employers to offer a minimum level of health insurance to employees who work 30 hours a week or more starting in 2014, or face a penalty. The mandate is a particular challenge for colleges and universities, which increasingly rely on adjuncts to help keep costs down as states have scaled back funding for higher education.

    A handful of schools, including Community College of Allegheny County in Pennsylvania and Youngstown State University in Ohio, have curbed the number of classes that adjuncts can teach in the current spring semester to limit the schools’ exposure to the health-insurance requirement.
    The professors are understandably confused. Robert Balla, an adjunct professor of English at Stark State College, in North Canton, Ohio received a letter in which he was told that “in order to avoid penalties under the Affordable Care Act…employees with part-time or adjunct status will not be assigned more than an average of 29 hours per week.” He told the Journal that the move cut his $40,000 salary by about $2,000 and that he cannot afford health insurance.

    “I think it goes against the spirit of the [health-care] law,” Mr. Balla said. “In education, we’re working for the public good, we are public employees at a public institution; we should be the first ones to uphold the law, to set the example.


    A spokeswoman for Stark State explained the realities of the market. The new rules were necessary “to maintain the fiscal stability of the college. There are a lot of penalties involved if adjuncts go over their 29 hours-per-week average. The college can be fined and the fines are substantial.”

    Really? Substantial penalties? You don’t say.

    You can just imagine the outraged conversations in the faculty lounge now: “We’re professors. I thought stuff like this only happened to manual laborers at Wendy’s and Taco Bell!”

    Looks like the academy is finally getting a lesson in the costs of big government liberalism.
    It goes against the spirit of the law. Ba ha ha ha! Guess you should have known what was in it before promoting it.
  • Jan 26, 2013, 07:32 AM
    talaniman
    I thought you guys have always been saying its okay for businesses to make profits? Be it colleges or insurance companies. Don't blame government ,because the ACA hasn't been implemented yet, blame the businesses for the way they prepare for it, and charge you now because they may not be able to later.
  • Jan 26, 2013, 07:55 AM
    tomder55
    Quote:

    Don't blame government ,because the ACA hasn't been implemented yet
    The businesses are responding to what they know the mandates will cost. The costs are exploding because of government intervention in the market ;which was the plan all along.
  • Jan 26, 2013, 08:42 AM
    talaniman
    Without government intervention, they would be raising costs regardless, and kicking people off when they need it. Of course they tell YOU they are incurring more costs, but what they don't tellyou is they set the costs in the first place.

    We aren't talking cost, the consumer always pays those, we are talking PROFITS that go to the boards, and CEO's.

    You're a capitalist and a free marketer, you already know this.
  • Jan 26, 2013, 08:45 AM
    tomder55
    You want them to work for free ? I bet you do .
  • Jan 26, 2013, 09:16 AM
    talaniman
    No not for free but not for unlimited profits though, unless I get paid an unlimited salary. The business model is broken, how many times do I have to say that and the cost to all of us is to damn high.

    By your posting here at least stop lying to us and calling capitalists, and for profit businesses "job creators" as that's not their true purpose, goal, or intention. Making money whether citizens do or not, is the whole basis of the free market.

    Is that why you accept layoffs slow downs, as normal cost of doing business?
  • Jan 26, 2013, 09:22 AM
    tomder55
    Quote:

    unlimited profits
    Quote:

    The health-care sector is absurdly profitable. According to this data at Yahoo Finance, the sector-wide profit margin is 21.5 percent. But the insurance industry is one of its least-profitable parts: Its profit margin is at 4.54 percent. Hospitals are also a bit strapped, with an average margin of 3.5 percent.
    Ezra Klein - Health-insurance industry: Still not that profitable
  • Jan 26, 2013, 09:30 AM
    speechlesstx
    Profits are only evil when they aren't being redirected to promote a liberal agenda.

    Barack Obama’s new ‘grass-roots’ group isn't quite
  • Jan 26, 2013, 09:47 AM
    talaniman
    Under the law validated by the Supreme Court, its okay to have corporate donors for grassroots activity, you guys do it so will we. Sometimes you have to adjust your attitudes to reality.

    What wrong with that? You guys should try reality yourselves sometimes.
  • Jan 26, 2013, 10:10 AM
    excon
    Hello again,

    Quote:

    Her local carriers are hinting to her that premiums may triple this fall,
    Like your stance on immigration is going to elect Hillary Clinton, the insurance companies stance on rates is going to INSURE a government takeover.

    No, what you saw, WASN'T a government takeover... If it was, the insurance companies wouldn't be able to make WAR on us... But, they are, and it's going to be their death knell.

    Excon
  • Jan 26, 2013, 10:17 AM
    talaniman
    Maybe insurance companies should squeeze big pharma, and not consumers.
  • Jan 26, 2013, 10:23 AM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    Maybe insurance companies should squeeze big pharma, and not consumers.

    And hospitals -- a new one near me built a large outdoor (Chicago! ) "healing garden" where patients can walk and find serenity. How many patients can and will do that during their stay? The patient rooms are private only and are huge, better than a fine hotel. Each room is between parallel hallways and has two doors, one for staff access (one hallway) and one for visitor access (the other hallway).
  • Jan 26, 2013, 11:20 AM
    talaniman
    Effort To Curb Medicare Spending Begins With Crackdown On Hospital Readmissions - Kaiser Health News

    Quote:

    Dr. Krumholz said hospitals should think of readmissions as a challenge to overcome. "One day, we'll look back," he said, "and we'll be incredulous that one out of every five patients ended up back in the hospital."
    Crack down on corrupt medical billing soon: Government | TheMedGuru

    Government to crack down on 'hidden' waiting lists - Channel 4 News

    Thanks for guiding us to the facts WG.
  • Jan 26, 2013, 11:35 AM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    Thanks for guiding us to the facts WG.

    The planners of new hospitals around here seem to be knocking themselves out in an effort to spend money for amenities that have nothing to do with a patient's care and improvement.

    Oh, and this particular new hospital with the two-hallway system is now merging with another area hospital because they are losing money. "Under the agreement, Edward Hospital, which operates a 309-bed hospital in Naperville, and a stand-alone emergency room in Plainfield, will assume control of the financially strapped 259-bed Elmhurst Memorial, which lost $14.7 million in its 2011 fiscal year after struggling to pay for its $450 million new hospital building that opened in 2011."

    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...ial-healthcare
  • Jan 26, 2013, 11:47 AM
    smearcase
    Any comments on George Will's latest take on where Obamacare is headed?
    George Will: Health care act’s death star? - Hannibal, MO - Hannibal Courier - Post - Hannibal, MO

    I have been a supporter of Obamacare because I know that something has to be done, and I mostly saw just the low hanging fruit, even though I don't really get any of the fruit in my circumstances.
    But it is getting hard to ignore the opinions of some of the experts. A brand new hospital in my hometown (100 miles from where I live now) is on the ropes. They are trying to work together with two other hospitals in the very general area (75 to 100 miles away) to try and survive.
    Not only did they have to pass it to know what was in it, it appears that they are still trying to figure out what is in it, at this late date.
    If George Will is correct, we may have seen nothing yet.
  • Jan 26, 2013, 01:17 PM
    talaniman
    Wills argument is about costs not people who NEED health care, and NOT about people who don't have it because of the costs already. I think the implementation is key, and that's not until 2014.

    I think if insurance companies, doctors, hospital get together on those costs, and include good outcomes for consumers this obstacle can be overcome. For sure consumers don't set the costs, they can only pay.

    They sure don't want universal health care, like every other nation, then they can no longer control costs to YOU, from them. Mr.Will makes no reference to the concerns of people just the cost of doing business. He is saying leave business alone to do what they have been doing, because it works for them, and passes ever rising costs on to YOU!

    That's just MY opinion though.
  • Jan 27, 2013, 03:34 AM
    tomder55
    Consolidation of services does not necessarily result in lower costs . What it definitely results in is fewer choices in available services ,and probably scarcity; which of course raises prices.
    I see nothing about a healing garden in WG's link. I assume it's the privates funded Lurie Children's Hospital . Although the garden appears to be a resume enhancer for the architect ,the criticism that it is not accessible to the patients is not accurate. Since Lurie relies on philanthropic funding ,why would it be a concern if they added a healing garden ? That doesn't cost the public a dime.
  • Jan 27, 2013, 09:20 AM
    talaniman
    Untrue as consolidation means lower administration cost and duplication of services and costs. It also reduces delivery cost, whether that means manpower, or meeting demand.

    Demand is what sets prices. One thing we have seen nation wide is hospitals buying the services of individual medical practices as satellites and restructuring the cost of building maintenance, salaries and equipment, and charging patients a fee. Its these hidden fees that create extra revenue streams that crushes the consumer with rising costs.

    Cost shifting has been an accepted practice of the free market. Accepted by money makers but consumer, I don't think so.
  • Jan 27, 2013, 09:46 AM
    Wondergirl
    Healing gardens, etc. at my hospital --

    "The hospital is working with the organization Planetree, which assists medical institutions to develop and implement patient-centered care in healing environments, a type of feng shui for healing, which may include displaying art or having waterfalls in the building.

    The hospital – which has several trickling waterfalls – also features 14 different outdoor gardens and has a one-mile outdoor walking path on the 50-acre campus."

    New hospital features gardens, shopping, fountains — Elmhurst news, photos and events — TribLocal.com
  • Jan 27, 2013, 09:53 AM
    talaniman
    Sounds expensive and just wonder who pays for it and how does it affect costs of services? Appears you may need a cadillac plan to even get in the door.
  • Jan 27, 2013, 09:58 AM
    Wondergirl
    At the old hospital five years ago, my husband had two stents put into his heart for <$82,000 (doctors and hospital). We wonder what a similar surgery would cost at the new hospital. Patients are choosing to be admitted to other hospitals in the area... Our Medicare Advantage plan has dropped them from its list.
  • Feb 1, 2013, 12:10 PM
    speechlesstx
    Hmm, welcome to Obamcare...

    Quote:

    IRS: Cheapest Obamacare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family

    CNSNews.com) – In a final regulation issued Wednesday, the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) assumed that under Obamacare the cheapest health insurance plan available in 2016 for a family will cost $20,000 for the year.

    Under Obamacare, Americans will be required to buy health insurance or pay a penalty to the IRS.

    The IRS's assumption that the cheapest plan for a family will cost $20,000 per year is found in examples the IRS gives to help people understand how to calculate the penalty they will need to pay the government if they do not buy a mandated health plan.

    The examples point to families of four and families of five, both of which the IRS expects in its assumptions to pay a minimum of $20,000 per year for a bronze plan.

    “The annual national average bronze plan premium for a family of 5 (2 adults, 3 children) is $20,000,” the regulation says.

    Bronze will be the lowest tier health-insurance plan available under Obamacare--after Silver, Gold, and Platinum. Under the law, the penalty for not buying health insurance is supposed to be capped at either the annual average Bronze premium, 2.5 percent of taxable income, or $2,085.00 per family in 2016.
    So, fork over the $20 grand or fork over your penalty for living.
  • Feb 1, 2013, 01:46 PM
    talaniman
    Doesn't apply to most of us.

    Quote:

    Using the conditions laid out in the regulations, the IRS calculates that a family earning $120,000 per year that did not buy insurance would need to pay a "penalty" (a word the IRS still uses despite the Supreme Court ruling that it is in fact a "tax") of $2,400 in 2016.

    For those wondering how clear the IRS's clarifications of this new "penalty" rule are, here is one of the actual examples the IRS gives:

    “Example 3. Family without minimum essential coverage.

    "(i) In 2016, Taxpayers H and J are married and file a joint return. H and J have three children: K, age 21, L, age 15, and M, age 10. No member of the family has minimum essential coverage for any month in 2016. H and J's household income is $120,000. H and J's applicable filing threshold is $24,000. The annual national average bronze plan premium for a family of 5 (2 adults, 3 children) is $20,000.

    "(ii) For each month in 2016, under paragraphs (b)(2)(ii) and (b)(2)(iii) of this section, the applicable dollar amount is $2,780 (($695 x 3 adults) + (($695/2) x 2 children)). Under paragraph (b)(2)(I) of this section, the flat dollar amount is $2,085 (the lesser of $2,780 and $2,085 ($695 x 3)). Under paragraph (b)(3) of this section, the excess income amount is $2,400 (($120,000 - $24,000) x 0.025). Therefore, under paragraph (b)(1) of this section, the monthly penalty amount is $200 (the greater of $173.75 ($2,085/12) or $200 ($2,400/12)).

    "(iii) The sum of the monthly penalty amounts is $2,400 ($200 x 12). The sum of the monthly national average bronze plan premiums is $20,000 ($20,000/12 x 12). Therefore, under paragraph (a) of this section, the shared responsibility payment imposed on H and J for 2016 is $2,400 (the lesser of $2,400 or $20,000).”
    Household income in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    National Median $44,389 50.00%

    My advice is buy your insurance and get the subsidies and tax write offs.
  • Feb 1, 2013, 02:01 PM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    Doesn't apply to most of us.



    Household income in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    National Median $44,389 50.00%

    My advice is buy your insurance and get the subsidies and tax write offs.

    That it applies to anyone is an outrage.
  • Feb 1, 2013, 02:12 PM
    talaniman
    So much for preaching personal responsibility.
  • Feb 1, 2013, 02:54 PM
    smearcase
    NYTimes today:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/15/us...lics.html?_r=0

    Insurance companies will cover costs of contraceptives and there really is no added cost for anybody, so says CNN.
    Really? Miracles still do happen.
  • Feb 1, 2013, 03:27 PM
    cdad
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    Doesn't apply to most of us.



    Household income in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    National Median $44,389 50.00%

    My advice is buy your insurance and get the subsidies and tax write offs.

    Im sure you might like the coverage that you currently enjoy right? How much do you think it is going to cost you now?


    Here is a look. Im sure you can afford it like everyone else.

    What do the coverage levels mean?

    The difference among these coverage tiers rests with their "actuarial" value -- in other words, how much a plan will cover before the patient must chip in for co-insurance, deductibles and co-payments.

    According to the Kaiser Family Foundation, the actuarial values for the four levels of coverage are:
    •Bronze: 60 percent.
    •Silver: 70 percent.
    •Gold: 80 percent.
    •Platinum: 90 percent.


    Bronze, silver, gold or platinum? Understanding the new coverage levels under health care reform
  • Feb 1, 2013, 03:28 PM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    So much for preaching personal responsibility.

    LOL, you take the cake. The government imposing it's will on you for the right to breathe removes personal responsibility from the equation. So much for CHOICE and LIBERTY is more accurate.
  • Feb 1, 2013, 03:29 PM
    Wondergirl
    If you are already covered, no need to drop it. And those premium costs are not final.
  • Feb 1, 2013, 03:48 PM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    If you are already covered, no need to drop it. And those premium costs are not final.

    And by then I'm betting the bronze plan will be even more expensive. A lot of small business owners can't afford coverage but will be forced to buy coverage or be fined to breathe. But no, government isn't threatening our rights or anything...
  • Feb 1, 2013, 03:56 PM
    tomder55
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    Doesn't apply to most of us.



    Household income in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    National Median $44,389 50.00%

    My advice is buy your insurance and get the subsidies and tax write offs.

    Umm maybe in Texas... round here we would not call a 2 income family making $44 as unusual or particularly rich (many of us are putting in the OT for that income level ;so it is resentful that we are considered some kind of elitists ). Now those of us who still have employers who are willing to take on the bulk of the costs are fortunate ;even though I was informed my share of the deal increases this year ( and thanks to Obamacare ,my contribution now gets a line item on my payroll report to the IRS... setting up it being a taxable benefit in the future) . But many employers ,as has been documented here more than once ,are making hard choices regarding staffing based on Obamacare .You can deny it all you want to ;but it is having a major impact on hiring .
  • Feb 1, 2013, 03:57 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by speechlesstx View Post
    A lot of small business owners can't afford coverage but will be forced to buy coverage or be fined to breathe.

    No, that isn't what will happen. That's not how it works.
  • Feb 1, 2013, 04:09 PM
    tomder55
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    No, that isn't what what will happen. That's not how it works.

    So long as they don't make the business decision to limit the number of employees they hire . Many are on that 50 employee threshold now ,and Obamacare is the determining factor .
  • Feb 1, 2013, 04:59 PM
    talaniman
    CRY CRY CRY, what's the alternative?
  • Feb 2, 2013, 08:05 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    CRY CRY CRY, whats the alternative?

    That's all you can say about that business owner, employer, family that's being punished for existing is cry, cry, cry?
  • Feb 2, 2013, 09:33 AM
    talaniman
    I asked what's the alternative. Obamacare hasn't started and you say it won't work and its wrong. But clearly you ignore the huge, and expensive flaws in the present system. So stop hollering and crying and express solutions like I asked for.

    You sound like you love the system as it is while sucking money out of your pocket. Just say so.
  • Feb 2, 2013, 10:31 AM
    tomder55
    So of course the Dem solution was to put it's ills on steroids and hasten the demise of the US health care system. Unless you think doubling and tripling of household expenses was the right prescription.
  • Feb 2, 2013, 10:47 AM
    talaniman
    Yeah let the insurance companie quadruple the expenses over a shorter time, and less people. That's a great solution.
  • Feb 2, 2013, 02:25 PM
    tomder55
    Medical Company Blames 'Obamacare' For Layoffs Of Nearly 100 People « CBS DC

    More layoffs due to Obamacare . Yeah I know.. it was the greedy company's fault

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