Has everyone veiwed the insane idea brought to attention Dec 2 for holiday gift certificate?
The New York Times reported that 35 parent planning station across the Unitied States have offered the gift of death as a Christmas gift.

As quoted in the news:

Here's an original holiday gift idea to help the person who may have everything, including a little something they don't really want. A new way to mark the festive yearend celebration of life -- a gift certificate for an abortion.

I applaude Gianna Jessen who is an abortion survivor. And I ask that you to give your heart to her message. Don't miss part 2 also... I promise it is worth hearing.

Part 1
GodTube.com - davisc - Gianna Jessen - Abortion Survivor (Part 1 of 2)


Part 2
GodTube.com - davisc - Gianna Jessen - Abortion Survivor (Part 2 of 2)

Come on now, what do you mean gift certificate of death? Don't you know to Planned Parenthood that's just "basic medical needs?"

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"Women in particular are likely to forgo basic medical needs when faced with putting gas in their car or food on the table," said Planned Parenthood of Indiana's president and CEO, Betty Cockrum.

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What a special way to celebrate Christmas - the birth of child - give an abortion to a loved one. I wonder if you can designate which services the certificate is good for. Hey cousin George, here’s $50 for your gonorrhea. Or maybe we can just designate the certificate for the next black that comes for an abortion?

I feel that the present society that America is currently in can be extremely revolting to even dream up such a tastless Christmas gift. What kind of a gift is this? Hey, everybody, let's kill a few more babies and you have our gift certificate to make it all nicey nicey and all. This is worse than bad taste. It defies logic.

Quoted WHERE in the news?

Give me the link to the news article, please.

I have a feeling that there is more to this than just a gift certificate for an abortion! There are a LOT of services that Planned Parenthood offers that have NOTHING to do with abortions--and EVERYTHING to do with family planning.

Here you go Synnen:

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This holiday season, Indiana's Planned Parenthood is offering an unusual stocking stuffer: gift certificates redeemable for health services at clinics throughout the state.

In these tough economic times, the organization says it made the move toward gift certificates because it is worried that more and more people will forgo basic health care.

"Women in particular are likely to forgo basic medical needs when faced with putting gas in their car or food on the table," said Planned Parenthood of Indiana's president and CEO, Betty Cockrum.

Planned Parenthood provides contraception, pap smears and other routine health services for women, as well as abortions. The gift certificates, ranging in values from $25 to $100, can be redeemed for all clinic services.

The Indiana branch is selling the gift certificates on its Web site, touting it as a way to give the gift of health this holiday season.

But the vouchers are sparking controversy. Some anti-abortion supporters see it as less about the gift of affordable health care and more about making a mockery of the holidays.

"This campaign to offer lethal gift certificates that Planned Parenthood is engaging in right now is offensive," said Sister Diane Carollo, director of the Office for Pro-Life Ministry for the Catholic Archdiocese of Indianapolis. "And it's offensive because Christmas is about the celebration of human life."

Planned Parenthood is quick to argue some 95 percent of women who come to their clinics come for basic health services -- not abortion.

"It's about basic health care. It's about annual exams, it's about pap smears, it's about birth control," said Cockrum. "I would be amazed if a dime of it goes toward an abortion.

It's an issue that is spreading beyond Indiana. On ABC News.com today, opinions were mixed. One person wrote: "Wal-Mart gift cards can be used to buy alcohol and ammunition... but nobody is outraged."

This holiday season Indiana's Planned Parenthood is offering gift certificates that can be used at 35 clinics across the state for services ranging from contraceptives to abortion.

Another wrote: "Disgusting!! I am pro choice, but gift certificates for abortion, sick, sick, sick!"

Planned Parenthood chapters in Illinois, New York, Alaska and Michigan are considering similar gift certificate programs for the holidays.

But if the organization expands this program, the more it is likely to inflame the never-ending fight over abortion during what is intended to be a peaceful holiday season.

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Yup... giving a woman the gift of a pap smear so that she doesn't die of cervical cancer is just horrendous!

Or giving a woman the gift of affordable birth control so that she doesn't face the choices of an unplanned pregnacy--just awful!

Grow up, people. The gift of health is a HUGE gift. If people were giving someone a gift certificate to any OTHER health care, like a hospital or walk-in clinic--some of which do offer abortions--would you be as outraged? Or is it just because it's Planned Parenthood?

I personally used Planned Parenthood all through college and afterwards, when I was flat broke, because it was either Planned Parenthood or NO health care. With low-paying jobs that didn't offer insurance, I didn't have a lot of choice in health care providers.

I'll just suggest to others I know in the same financial straits (and there are MORE of them now, the way the economy is!) that they should just take chances with their health rather than support an agency that promotes womens' health.

If a Planned Parenthood gift certificate isn't your cup of tea, you can celebrate Christmas by watching the first televised assisted suicide if you have Britain's Sky TV.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

you can celebrate Christmas by watching the first televised assisted suicide if you have Britain's Sky TV.

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Why are you interested in that??

Synnen, do you really not get it? Of course health care is a great gift, but the outrage is that the certificates are valid “for all clinic services.” It really isn’t that difficult to figure out that promoting gift certificates with the potential to be used for an abortion as a “Christmas” gift is beyond disgusting. There just isn’t much more insulting, outrageous, offensive, demeaning to “the reason for the season” than that.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

There just isn’t much more insulting, outrageous, offensive, demeaning to “the reason for the season” than that.

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You mean worse that the outrageous commercialization of the “the reason for the season”?

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Why are you interested in that????

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Do you have any substance to offer at all, NK?

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Do you have any substance to offer at all, NK?

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Just wondering why you're interested in watching someone's suicide and promote the fact to all here.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Just wondering why you're interested in watching someone's suicide and promote the fact to all here.

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The sarcasm is obvious, NK, so you can drop the lame attempts at highlighting my "interest."

You know what---I typed up a nice long response to you, speechlesstx, but decided that even though you warrant it, I couldn't be THAT rude and THAT demeaning.

Let's just put it this way: A person's healthcare, in this country, is protected by privacy. There is absolutely NO ONE who needs to know how those gift cards are used.

My dad got a gun from all of us for Christmas last year. Guns are ONLY for killing. Should we have waited until Father's Day--is that your point? That giving a gift that someone wants and/or needs shouldn't happen at the holidays unless there is absolute NO WAY for it to be used for harm.

So... no more cleaning supplies, knives, guns, ice picks, alcohol, ice skates, step ladders, rope, candlesticks, lead pipes, wrenches, baseball bats---are you getting the idea here?--because they MIGHT be used to kill someone.

I love people who want to ban things on the basis of MIGHTS.

people have christmas parties, yes even good christians, then some drink and drive - it's a certificate of death!!!!

The reason for the season. What a funny saying, how about the guy who got trampled at walmart in NY. The reason he was killed is because of the season. So let me ask how many of you stopped shopping at Walmart? Their sale and the Season is the reason a man is dead. So save how disgusted you are about a GC for Planned Parenthood that may or may not be used for an abortion if you still shop at Walmart.

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Or maybe we can just designate the certificate for the next black that comes for an abortion?

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Make the Eugenics~Tide gay. Their founder, Margaret Sanger, hated black people and wanted to eliminate them through sterilization and abortion.

In her own words :
The most serious charge that can be brought against modern “benevolence” is that it encourages the perpetuation of defectives, delinquents and dependents. These are the most dangerous elements in the world community, the most devastating curse on human progress and expression.
The Pivot of Civilization

Is this about the time where we mention the Westboro Baptist Church since we seem to be fishing for kooks in this world?

If you wish . I brought up Sanger because she begat Planned Parenthood from her kooky philosophy of hate .

I love laughing at Pastor Phelps and his family, there are INSANE!!

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Originally Posted by spitvenom

I love laughing at Pastor Phelps and his family, there are INSANE!!!!!

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That's an understatement.

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Originally Posted by Synnen

You know what---I typed up a nice long response to you, speechlesstx, but decided that even though you warrant it, I couldn't be THAT rude and THAT demeaning.

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My apologies, I didn't mean to be deserving of "THAT rude and THAT demeaning," I merely pointed out what the outrage is about. I wasn't dissing you in asking "do you really not get it?" In fact I think you do get it but won't say so.

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Let's just put it this way: A person's healthcare, in this country, is protected by privacy. There is absolutely NO ONE who needs to know how those gift cards are used.

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I know all about that but it's irrelevant to the point.

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My dad got a gun from all of us for Christmas last year. Guns are ONLY for killing. Should we have waited until Father's Day--is that your point? That giving a gift that someone wants and/or needs shouldn't happen at the holidays unless there is absolute NO WAY for it to be used for harm.

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Oh really? I've fired a gun many, many, many times. I was taught how to fire a weapon when I was 7 or 8. By the third grade my dad would give me a .22 and a box of ammo and let me go out on my own at my grandmother's farm. I have never in 48 years killed anything with one of those shots I took, unless you count the TV we euthanized at a friend's private shooting range a few years ago.

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So... no more cleaning supplies, knives, guns, ice picks, alcohol, ice skates, step ladders, rope, candlesticks, lead pipes, wrenches, baseball bats---are you getting the idea here?--because they MIGHT be used to kill someone.

I love people who want to ban things on the basis of MIGHTS.

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Maybe you don't get it after all. If you can point out where I wanted to ban something in my responses I'll be glad to address that, but meanwhile let's talk about what I have said and what I'm about to say. I don't deny Planned Parenthood's right to offer these, but that doesn't diminish the offensiveness of promoting gift certificates that have the potential to be used for killing a child in honor of the season which is entirely about the birth of a child. There are a hell of a lot of things that may be legal and have good intentions but it doesn't make it the right thing to do. And IF Planned Parenthood were as concerned about health care for low income and other needy people as they claim to be, the thought of offering "gift certificates" would never enter the discussion, they would "just do it."

I guess YOU don't get the point.

The "reason" for the season is the rebirth of the sun. Christianity coopted the winter solstice hundreds of years ago, and took on pagan traditions (like gift-giving) to convert the pagans

The season is about giving. It's about tolerance. It's about love, and friendship and fellow-man.

It's NOT about judgments, or assumptions, or getting offended every single time someone does something that ISN'T Christian. There are SEVERAL other holidays this time of year, you know, and most of them have gift-giving involved.

I get that you don't want people getting abortions, or getting gift cards that could help them. I guess what YOU don't get is that it would be extremely surprising for someone to get an abortion with those gift cards, since any TRUE Christian wouldn't give someone who is expecting a gift card to Planned Parenthood, would they? They'd buy baby stuff instead. Or buy food, or whatever. Anyone who gets one of these cards to give is going to be giving it to someone they'd like to be HEALTHY. Anyone GETTING one of these cards is more likely to get birth control than an abortion, if you ask me.

Besides---I don't know, really, what you seem to know about abortion, but even a CHEAP abortion is usually over $500. I don't know anyone handing out $500.00 gift cards for ANYTHING this holiday season---and if they were, they'd be able to afford something nicer than Planned Parenthood, don't you think? Or do you think that 16 year old is going to ask everyone in her family for PP gift cards for Christmas, so that she can run out and get her abortion the day after? By contrast, $25 can get you several months of birth control pills from PP. Which do YOU think is more likely?

All this does is make me realize that some people assume that others will do the worst--and that most of the time those making the assumptions do so in the name of "good" and "God". Isn't this the time of year to expect the BEST of your fellow-man?

I get your point--I realize you're offended that some people make a choice about their own bodies that you don't agree with.

You don't get mine: If this is supposed to be the "season of Christianity", shouldn't Christian principles prevail? Shouldn't people expect the best of others, and foster goodwill and generosity? Shouldn't we forgive people, and try to live like Jesus would? How about spreading love instead of hate? How about spreading kindness instead of pettyness? How about thinking that people will do something GOOD with a gift, rather than assuming that they will do something bad? Why not practice tolerance of the beliefs of others instead of pushing your own at them?

Wonder how a gift certificate like this would be viewed?

"This entitles the bearer to one free office call with Dr. Jack Kevorkian"

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Originally Posted by Galveston1

Wonder how a gift certificate like this would be viewed?

"This entitles the bearer to one free office call with Dr. Jack Kevorkian"

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I would view a Gift Certificate like that with a big THANK YOU. I think assisted suicide should be legal. Why do we make people suffer? If you are sick and want to die I think that should be a persons choice. I know if I was in a car accident and I was going to be a quadriplegic and was going to have to have someone clean me, machines breathe for me, and tubes feed me I would rather be dead.

We are always going to have heated debates over abortion - and rightfully so, there are many factors involved. However, I think that what is being overlooked here is the many, many other great services offered by Planned Parenthood. As one of the 140 million Americans that don't have health insurance, I would love a gift certificate to Planned Parenthood. Believe me, I am long over due for a healthcare visit!

Of course, how silly of us to miss that Planned Parenthood would be offering this "gift" in honor of the "rebirth of the sun" and not the birth of the Son. I'm sure that's exactly what they had in mind for all those millions of people out there shopping for just the right meaningful Saturnalia gift to be wrapped in all that Saturnalia paper and placed under the Saturnalia Tree.

But hey, I can be tolerant of people celebrating Saturnalia, or Kwanzaa or whatever, that's fine, but by far the majority of people in this country will be giving Christmas gifts for the Christmas holiday regardless of whether someone co-opted the celebration from pagans. You call it what you want and we'll call it what we want, but we couldn't really care less about any alleged pagan origins of Christmas - we know what we're celebrating.

These gift certificates in present form are a slap in the face to millions of Christians no matter what you plead. That doesn't change just because you say it should and why in God's name does everyone think we should not be offended because you say so anyway? And yes, I do get that the likelihood of using one for an abortion is probably slim, but just once couldn't they have used a little better judgment?

As for what I know about abortion, it robbed me of a grandchild, probably my only shot at ever having a grandchild. Planned Parenthood's "health care" also left my daughter fighting for her life with full-blown AIDS. I have plenty of standing in my contempt for Planned Parenthood so yeah, I certainly get it.

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Originally Posted by jjwoodhull

We are always going to have heated debates over abortion - and rightfully so, there are many factors involved. However, I think that what is being overlooked here is the many, many other great services offered by Planned Parenthood. As one of the 140 million Americans that don't have health insurance, I would love a gift certificate to Planned Parenthood. Believe me, I am long over due for a healthcare visit!!

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I would have no problem giving someone a gift certificate for health care, but not to Planned Parenthood. I would take my family to see Tor Eckman before I took them to PP.

YouTube Seinfeld - The Heart Attack

The beauty of Seinfeld - it can be applied to all of life's situation :)

I am sorry to hear about your daughter's illness, Speachless. I can empathize with your feelings. Maybe the real issue here is this:

Why aren't other health care facilities offering gift certificates? It's actually a great idea.

Then those Christians shouldn't buy them.

It works like that in a capitalistic society: if you all decide not to buy it because you don't agree with it on moral grounds, well, then the product won't be available in the future.

You have a personal vendetta against Planned Parenthood. It has NOTHING to do with the millions of people that PP has helped over the years.

You may know what you're celebrating, but you're really angry when anyone points out that you're not celebrating it the way the early Christians did, but in the way the pagans around them did. The original Christmases were days of fasting and praying---if you don't like the way pagans celebrate it, then go back to fasting and praying, imo.

And by the way---ya'll stole the "Christmas" tree from the pagans (yup, I've got one up, with icicle ornaments and pagan symbols and a clump of mistletoe on the top). You stole the gift giving thing from Saturnalia, when it was a time to give gifts to others. I actually DO have something like "Saturnalia" paper--it's stars and moons and suns in silver and gold and black and blue.

Want to jump all over the Jews that MIGHT give this gift certificate to PP in installments over 8 crazy nights? I mean, it could be $5 the first night, up to $300 the last night, and the full amount MIGHT add up to the cost of an abortion! Holy smokes! And they're not CHRISTIAN! They might KILL A BABY for Christm--oops, I mean Hannukah.

GET REAL. People don't just randomly make the decision to abort.

Planned Parenthood helps millions of people every year who cannot afford birth control, health care, family planning guidance (which, by the way, includes some fertility treatments), counseling on adoption and parenting options and STD testing--all of which SAVE lives.

And really--point out to me a SINGLE health care facility in this country that has NOT had a case of malpractice. Show me one hospital that hasn't had a death due to negligence or overtired/overworked doctors and nurses. Human beings make mistakes. It happens. I'm sorry that it happened to your daughter--truly I am. I will definitely pray for her.

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Originally Posted by Synnen

Part of your whole issue is that if your daughter had felt comfortable with talking to you to begin with, you may not have had the issues with Planned Parenthood that you have, because you would have taken her for the medical care that YOU could afford, not the care that SHE could afford.

So--blame yourself as much as you blame them, woman.

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That was not fair. How can you be so mean spirited?

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Originally Posted by Synnen

I understand her reasons, but to me they seem irrational to the point of blindness. The point is that PP DOES have affordable health care. PP DOES help millions of young women who would not otherwise have ANY health care. And they do so very much more than offer abortions---and I'm really sick of the fact that people can't see beyond that fact.

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I agree with you 100% that PP is a good organization. However, I'm sure I would feel the same way Speechless feels if I had an experience similar to hers. She is entitled to her feelings and viewpoint without a nasty attack about her relationship with her ill daughter. Do you actually know anything about their relationship?

You are correct.

I have deleted those horrible words and my follow up post.

My apologies to Speechlesstx. I was completely out of line, and should not have said what I did.

I wonder how many abortions PP has prevented due to its wide range of services? That seems to be conveniently ignored. You know I'm sorry for yours and your daughters situation Steve but getting angry over something as simple as this is seems misguided... But then again I suppose nothing is simple when it comes to religion and this issue in particular.

Good job Synnen. We can disagree and still respect each other.

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Originally Posted by Synnen

You are correct.

I have deleted those horrible words and my follow up post.

My apologies to Speechlesstx. I was completely out of line, and should not have said what I did.

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It's good that you apologized before I read it, but for the record my daughter was an adult living near San Diego, CA with an abusive boyfriend about 1500 miles away. I bet you know what's that's like and why we were completely in the dark.

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Originally Posted by Skell

I wonder how many abortions PP has prevented due to its wide range of services? That seems to be conveniently ignored. You know i'm sorry for yours and your daughters situation Steve but getting angry over something as simple as this is seems misguided... But then again i suppose nothing is simple when it comes to religion and this issue in particular.

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Come on Skell, not you, too. Why do so many people think everyone has a right to be offended except Christians? The thought of a Christmas-time gift certificate potentially being used for an abortion is close to being the ultimate offense to our faith, but you think it's misguided. We're supposed to be "sensitive" to everyone else, even the slightest perception of an offense is played as an outrage but a direct insult to us is "misguided." But for the record, I was never angry about it until folks started telling me not to be.

I'll grant this also, yes Planned Parenthood does some good, they do furnish health care that some might otherwise go without, they do help prevent abortions to a degree, and for Synnen's sake, no there are no perfect health care providers. My daughter isn't the only one close to me whose life was messed up with PP's help, and I know more than enough about PP's activities factually otherwise to more than justify my contempt for that organization. You guys thought I was joking about Kramer's holistic healer... I'm not. Planned Parenthood in my opinion is a vile, dishonest, incompetent blight on society.

Why didn't Planned Parenthood give gift certificates for vasectomies instead and nip the problem in the bud (pun intended). Now that would make much more sense - prevention not destruction.

I believe that Planned Parenthood DOES offer vasectomies.

You could certainly use the gift card towards one, I'm sure.

Synn you missed my point. Sorry.