The nation is talking greatly now and has decided that Obama, who is left of Hillary Clinton on most things important to Americans, is simply unelectable. After her victorious win in Pennsylvania, Hillary has apparently more than convinced people across the nation that she would make a better president than Obama and the nation is now agreeing with her! In fact, she is now even beating McCain! If Obama truly wants to get a Democrat as president in the Oval Office by next January, he should gracefully bow out of the race now and save the party from further struggles! This trend can only continue with Hillary winning more and more support and even the superdelegates who are now seriously looking at her!

For the story: ABC News: AP POLL: Clinton Beats McCain By Wider Margin Than Obama

NO! Like I said back in January he needs to defeat Hillary to get her out of the pic and THEN concentrate on proving how unelectable Obama is.

I don't really call less than 10 percent a large victory, esp since she was 20 percent ahead in the state before the election. And in fact he is winning the race at this point and I would wonder why Hillary has not done the proper thing and steped out

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

and I would wonder why Hillary has not done the proper thing and steped out

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Because Hillary is Hillary and she will NEVER back off anything!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

I don't really call less than 10 percent a large victory, esp since she was 20 percent ahead in the state before the election. And in fact he is winning the race at this point and I would wonder why Hillary has not done the proper thing and steped out

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But then why should she? The tide is now turning in her favor as more and more people realize she is the one who could actually beat McCain and they are arriving at this conclusion just in time! Did you, perchance, see the broad spectrum of groups who are now with her! That speaks volumes for what this country is looking for and now believes in. Well, Republicans did want Hillary as the Democrat nominee, looks like they're going to get their chance!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SkyGem

Btw, see the latest "I Told You So " posting at:
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/curren...ce-210579.html

---

What's that saying, "pride comes before the fall?" Well get ready the Sky is falling! :)

Rasmussen Reports™: The most comprehensive public opinion coverage ever provided for a presidential election.

Monday, April 28, 2008

"Thirty-four percent (34%) of Democrats nationwide now believe that Hillary Clinton should drop out of the race for the White House. That's up from 32% earlier in April and 22% in late March.

As for Barack Obama, just 22% of Democrats say he should drop out. That's down from 26% earlier in April and unchanged from 22% in March. Just 1% want both candidates to drop out and 45% aren't ready for either to leave.

Nationally, Obama holds a modest but steady lead over Clinton in the Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll."

I don't want him out of the race . I want a Dem deadlocked convention and Recreate 68 in Denver. At this point I'm not sure he wouldn't be the easier candidate for McCain to beat .

But I think that the revelation in the LA Slimes that Obama laundered money through a law firm to hide his income (for which he did not provide any known services)while an Ill. State Senator, to avoid disclosure of the income ,is going to be the nail in his coffin. That and the revelation that Obama had a much closer association with William Ayers then he has previously disclosed . Ayers was his employer for 8 years at Chicago's Annenberg Challenge .


Obama donor received a state grant - Los Angeles Times

Why is Obama Hiding the Truth About William Ayers? Follow the Money : NO QUARTER

Then again... if McCain doesn't get off those marionette strings that Obama's been pulling he won't win anyway . He sounds ridiculous with his poor handling of the NC Republican party Rev Wright ad. He went from attacking the Republican party in NC for making an attack ad about Rev Wright to attacking Obama over the issues after Obama said it was OK for him to do it Sunday . From an ethical standpoint, injecting Wright into the campaign is legitimate or it isn't. It shouldn't matter what Obama believes.
Jonathan Martin's Blog - Politico.com
Obama's response was predictable after McCain fell into his trap.
"By sinking to a level that he specifically said he'd avoid, John McCain has broken his word to the American people and rendered hollow his promise of a respectful campaign"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tomder55

I don't want him out of the race . I want a Dem deadlocked convention and Recreate 68 in Denver. At this point I'm not sure he wouldn't be the easier candidate for McCain to beat .

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About time someone opposing the Democrats, spoke factually concerning the hope of he Republican party. They really don't have much else to work with. As for nomination and brokerage conventions, the difference is that the Democratic primaries of '08 are facing a more serious dilemma and I hope that the DNC surely doesn't want to set our country back in time to a 1960's evolution mindset. The whole world is watching to see the outcome and we stand to be the hypocrites of democracy in their eyes.

Hey Mods,
How many more of these anti-Obama threads is this member going to start? It's getting a little annoying:
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/search...archid=2734912


▒

Post after post I see skygem make these pointless and ridiculous comments come clean with us skygem what is your real problem with Obama? You want someone who is winning the nomination to step down because he lost one state by 9.4 and any 7th grader can tell you that with .4 you round down so actually she won by 9 points. Just like FR chuck said he was supposed to lose it by 20 does that not say something to you. He has a commanding lead in NC. Indiana is a dead heat. Your link says Obama can beat McCain, So if he wins both NC and IN what nonsense are you going to say after that? Please tells us why you actually don't like Obama.

My opinion is you are racist and I say that because my grandparents are the most racist people I have ever met in private meaning they won't say racist things about people to strangers but they will not paint that person in a good light. And every time I read one of your post it sounds exactly like something my grandmother would say to strangers. So come clean this is America freedom of speech so let it out Skygem.

Spit,
If you check the profile he/she writes:

Quote:

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Experience:
I am a Born Again Christian. Also, am an ordained minister. Have received certification as a Holistic Life Coach after studies and testing. I have studied religion as well as spiritual matters and have received degrees and certificates, plus in associated areas. In addition, I have studied about the Afterlife and feel very blessed in helping others when they request it. Occupation:
To help in Jesus' name.

---

I find that quite disturbing considering the conduct here.

In the US Obama and the Democrat nomination pretty much dominates "current events" . The fact is that there was a news story out yesterday that sky linked to . Bobby effectively countered his point with a counterpoint with a supporting link .
The Rev Wright is "current events " again because he has been all over the media in a pre- book tour and because he is not about to blow his 15 minutes of fame.
The article I linked to involving Obama's questionable hiding of income during his days a an Ill. Senator was reported by the LA Times Sunday... again "current events" .

I will remind everyone that we are pretty much prohibited from posting these on the "Politics" board because we do not end our posting with a ? . So where else should these discussions be posted ?

Tom,
It's the sheer number I guess. Perhaps it could all be merged into one thread.

Lol I understand . Maybe when Obama has his press conference today after his PBS interview ,and throws both Rev Wright and his white grandma under the bus the buzz will cool down a little .

Well personally I really don't want Obama to be the president. I hear all these things that he is saying and I get worried. Who hear thinks that he will win?

The buzz is what is created by people who don't care about the issues. The reverend and the grandma are red herrings. Apparently Obama is untouchable on the issues. Kudos to him.

I was right however . Obama did throw the Rev under the bus big time . His press conference just concluded.

Obama Addresses Ex-Pastors Media Blitz - The Caucus - Politics - New York Times Blog

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

The buzz is what is created by people who don't care about the issues. The reverend and the grandma are red herrings. Apparently Obama is untouchable on the issues. Kudos to him.

---

Considering the thousands of times I've read and heard the complaints that "Bush lied," the 2006 Democratic campaign against the alleged "Republican culture of corruption," the endless congressional investigations of the Bush administration since the Dems gained the majority in Congress, and that Obama himself said he would "immediately review the information" of possible crimes in the Bush administration should he get elected - I thought character and manufactured 'buzz' were important to the left.

Tom- you flip-flop or triangulate as often as the Republicans and Democrats. You went after Obama for not dissociating himself with Rev Wright, now say he through him under the bus.

Well tell me Bobby... was he just doing what a politician does today when he flip flopped on the Right rev ? Or when was he telling the truth ? When he said that he had not heard the controverial things the rev said ;or when he said he could no longer disassociate himself from the rev than he could from the black race ? Or today when for political expediency he ripped the rev a new one ?

The whole point is that his early claim to the campaign ;that he was somehow above the fray has been totally exposed as a fiction in the last month.

Now that we know that he is not this transformational superman ;but instead just another Dem with positions not much different than his other Dem opponent ;the final issue for the Dem campaign is electability .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by you_know

Well personally I really dont want Obama to be the president. I hear all these things that he is saying and I get worried. Who hear thinks that he will win?

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Fair enough. I'm more worried about where the last seven and half years has led us. I actually like the fact that after the Republicans took him to task the Rev Wright issue. It gave Obama the opportunity to speak on racism in the US openly, more so than any Republican candidate or Republican President in the past century. Economically I think Ron Paul would be the best choice. However he's no longer in the campaign, so if Obama can get past the Clinton's campaign shenanigans, or from being railroaded by the DNC, he has an excellent chance of being elected President.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tomder55

well tell me Bobby ....was he just doing what a politician does today when he flip flopped on the Right rev ? or when was he telling the truth ? When he said that he had not heard the controverial things the rev said ;or when he said he could no longer disassociate himself from the rev than he could from the black race ? or today when for political expediency he ripped the rev a new one ?

The whole point is that his early claim to the campaign ;that he was somehow above the fray has been totally exposed as a fiction in the last month.

Now that we know that he is not this transformational superman ;but instead just another Dem with positions not much different than his other Dem opponent ;the final issue for the Dem campaign is electability .

---

The point is that you didn't recognize that he originally disassociated himself from some of what Rev Wright remarks suggested, which was mostly soundbites out of context. But rather you believed as the Republicans wanted you to think that he was the alter boy at every service. Nobody on the Democratic front suggested that Obama is superman. That's mostly Republicans thinking out loud in jealous fear. The DNC message has been that either of their candidates, Obama or Clinton, are in the drivers seat against McCain. When is McCain going go on National TV and give a speech on why he's disassociating from Hagee because of his ideology concerning Jews and Catholics? I'm still waiting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BABRAM

The problem is that you didn't recognize that he originally disassociated himself from some of what Rev Wright remarks suggested, which was mostly soundbites out of context. But rather you believed as the Republicans wanted you to think that he was the alter boy at every service.

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I don't think that's a fair assessment, Bobby. What we have asked is how can Obama sit in a church for 20 years and claim not to have heard Wright's rants? How can he can be a member and supporter of a church and pastor for 20 years and now not only says Wright's views don't reflect what he believes, but are offensive to many Americans? It's grievously inconsistent.

Also, Obama knew Wright would be a problem for him, Wright admitted as much to the NY Times prior to this eruption. Hannity interviewed Wright in March of last year, why didn't Obama dissociate himself then?

Quote:

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Nobody on the Democratic front suggested that Obama is superman. That's mostly Republicans thinking out loud in jealous fear. The DNC message has been that either of their candidates, Obama or Clinton, are in the drivers seat against McCain. When is McCain going go on National TV and give a speech on why he's disassociating from Hagee because of his ideology concerning Jews and Catholics? I'm still waiting.

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LOL, it ain't jealous fear, it's the media's coronation and coverage. All afternoon I've heard ABC Radio News correspondents elated that Obama has distanced himself from Wright - and it wasn't Republican jealous fear that sent a thrill up Christ Matthew's leg or referred to him as "the magic Negro."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

I don't think that's a fair assessment, Bobby. What we have asked is how can Obama sit in a church for 20 years and claim not to have heard Wright's rants? How can he can be a member and supporter of a church and pastor for 20 years and now not only says Wright's views don't reflect what he believes, but are offensive to many Americans? It's grievously inconsistent.

Also, Obama knew Wright would be a problem for him, Wright admitted as much to the NY Times prior to this eruption. Hannity interviewed Wright in March of last year, why didn't Obama dissociate himself then?

---

It's very fair. Obama being on the membership role is not the same as being at every service for twenty years. I haven't forgotten it was the Republicans that blasted Obama because he agreed with Wright's teaching on "Black" theology. A theology which stood for human rights and led to civil rights. He said from the beginning that he doesn't agree with Wrights on other things, especially his lack of tact. Now that Wright refuses to be constructive in his messages, Obama on a personal level has chosen to disassociated from the pastor. Which BTW since he hasn't been around him in awhile means that Obama simply has his name removed from church membership records or continues not to show up. Wright has never been part of the Obama advisory staff. Republicans will continue to resort to negative campaigning, but only heaven knows what they'll have left to talk about around the water cooler now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

LOL, it ain't jealous fear, it's the media's coronation and coverage. All afternoon I've heard ABC Radio News correspondents elated that Obama has distanced himself from Wright - and it wasn't Republican jealous fear that sent a thrill up Christ Matthew's leg or referred to him as "the magic Negro."

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He's the first African-American candidate with a legitimate shot at the White House and that scares the hell out of many Republicans. By the way ABC's been under Hillary Clinton's skirt for months now and FOX for the most part has been sharing McCain's wheelchair.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BABRAM

It's very fair. Obama being on the membership role is not the same as being at every service for twenty years.

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Bobby, surely you remember that Wright was his 'mentor.' That suggests much more than occasional attendance.

Quote:

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I haven't forgotten it was the Republicans that blasted Obama because he agreed with Wright's teaching on "Black" theology. A theology which stood for human rights and led to civil rights. He said from the beginning that he doesn't agree with Wrights on other things, especially his lack of tact. Now that Wright refuses to be constructive in his messages, Obama on a personal level has chosen to disassociated from the pastor.

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Anyone that criticizes Obama for agreeing with "black theology" in the Christian church is correct in doing so. There is no "black theology" in the Christian church any more than there is a "white theology." The idea is simply absurd.

Quote:

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Which BTW since he hasn't been around him in awhile means that Obama simply has his name removed from church membership records or continues not to show up. Wright has never been part of the Obama advisory staff. Republicans will continue to resort to negative campaigning, but only heaven knows what they'll have left to talk about around the water cooler now.

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Bobby, Wright was indeed on Obama's "African American Religious Leadership Committee." But hey, Wright is giving us all he can to discuss around the water cooler now that he's seemingly throwing Obama under the bus. :D

Quote:

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He's the first African-American candidate with a legitimate shot at the White House and that scares the hell out of many Republicans. By the way ABC's been under Hillary Clinton's skirt for months now and FOX for the most part has been sharing McCain's wheelchair.

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Wrong, wrong, wrong and we've testified to the opposite many times. I'm all for a black president, just not the ones the Dems have offered up so far. I don't have any guilt over slavery to deal with, I don't need my conscience soothed, so I don't fall into that trap - and that just pi$$es some people off. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Bobby, surely you remember that Wright was his 'mentor.' That suggests much more than occasional attendance.

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Obama said Wright is not the same person today that he met twenty years ago. Surely you didn't think they were attached at the hip. I have rabbis that I consider as mentors that I haven't seen awhile. They may have changed. I don't always attend the same shul and often I complete shabbos at home.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Anyone that criticizes Obama for agreeing with "black theology" in the Christian church is correct in doing so. There is no "black theology" in the Christian church any more than there is a "white theology." The idea is simply absurd.

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Steve, you've got to be kidding me. It's hard for me to believe you don't know where Black theology started. Generations back when slavery was pressed upon the Blacks they questioned their White proclaimed "Christian" owners as to why they were treated differently in society. Often the only place they had to speak on this issue was at their segregated Church services and out of that grew human right and civil right issues in he 1960's and even now. Wow!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Bobby, Wright was indeed on Obama's "African American Religious Leadership Committee." But hey, Wright is giving us all he can to discuss around the water cooler now that he's seemingly throwing Obama under the bus. :D

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Past tense "was" and that's been awhile back since being named to any committee. You have it wrong again. Wright threw Obama under the bus. The retired Wright seemed to had thought that he was running for presidency. The only fault I have with Obama is that he didn't put Wright in his place sooner.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Wrong, wrong, wrong and we've testified to the opposite many times. I'm all for a black president, just not the ones the Dems have offered up so far. I don't have any guilt over slavery to deal with, I don't need my conscience soothed, so I don't fall into that trap - and that just pi$$es some people off. ;)

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Name one black president then?? And don't say Bill Clinton, he just thought he was African-American. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BABRAM

Obama said Wright is not the same person today that he met twenty years ago. Surely you didn't think they were attached at the hip. I have rabbis that I consider as mentors that I haven't seen awhile. They may have changed. I don't always attend the same shul and often I complete shabbos at home.

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Bobby, tell me you aren't really buying that. From The Rolling Stone in February, 2007:

Quote:

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The Trinity United Church of Christ, the church that Barack Obama attends in Chicago, is at once vast and unprepossessing, a big structure a couple of blocks from the projects, in the long open sore of a ghetto on the city's far South Side. The church is a leftover vision from the Sixties of what a black nationalist future might look like. There's the testifying fervor of the black church, the Afrocentric Bible readings, even the odd dashiki. And there is the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, a sprawling, profane bear of a preacher, a kind of black ministerial institution, with his own radio shows and guest preaching gigs across the country. Wright takes the pulpit here one Sunday and solemnly, sonorously declares that he will recite ten essential facts about the United States. "Fact number one: We've got more black men in prison than there are in college," he intones. "Fact number two: Racism is how this country was founded and how this country is still run!" There is thumping applause; Wright has a cadence and power that make Obama sound like John Kerry. Now the reverend begins to preach. "We are deeply involved in the importing of drugs, the exporting of guns and the training of professional KILLERS. . . . We believe in white supremacy and black inferiority and believe it more than we believe in God. . . . We conducted radiation experiments on our own people. . . . We care nothing about human life if the ends justify the means!" The crowd whoops and amens as Wright builds to his climax: "And. And. And! GAWD! Has GOT! To be SICK! OF THIS SH*T!"

This is as openly radical a background as any significant American political figure has ever emerged from, as much Malcolm X as Martin Luther King Jr. Wright is not an incidental figure in Obama's life, or his politics. The senator "affirmed" his Christian faith in this church; he uses Wright as a "sounding board" to "make sure I'm not losing myself in the hype and hoopla." Both the title of Obama's second book, The Audacity of Hope, and the theme for his keynote address at the Democratic National Convention in 2004 come from Wright's sermons. "If you want to understand where Barack gets his feeling and rhetoric from," says the Rev. Jim Wallis, a leader of the religious left, "just look at Jeremiah Wright."

Obama wasn't born into Wright's world. His parents were atheists, an African bureaucrat and a white grad student, Jerry Falwell's nightmare vision of secular liberals come to life. Obama could have picked any church — the spare, spiritual places in Hyde Park, the awesome pomp and procession of the cathedrals downtown. He could have picked a mosque, for that matter, or even a synagogue. Obama chose Trinity United. He picked Jeremiah Wright. Obama writes in his autobiography that on the day he chose this church, he felt the spirit of black memory and history moving through Wright, and "felt for the first time how that spirit carried within it, nascent, incomplete, the possibility of moving beyond our narrow dreams."

Obama has now spent two years in the Senate and written two books about himself, both remarkably frank: There is a desire to own his story, to be both his own Boswell and his own investigative reporter. When you read his autobiography, the surprising thing — for such a measured politician — is the depth of radical feeling that seeps through, the amount of Jeremiah Wright that's packed in there.

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I think they were attached at the hip.

Quote:

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Steve, you've got to be kidding me. It's hard for me to believe you don't know where Black theology started. Generations back when slavery was pressed upon the Blacks they questioned their White proclaimed "Christian" owners as to why they were treated differently in society. Often the only place they had to speak on this issue was at their segregated Church services and out of that grew human right and civil right issues in he 1960's and even now. Wow!

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I knew that would get you going but I've already explained it before. The point is simple, there is not one "Christian" theology for blacks and one "Christian" theology for whites, there is one Christ and He established one church. It ain't like I don't know there is a "black theology" or how, when and why it started - it's just as wrong as any any "white theology" that justified enslaving blacks. Here's an example from one of Wright's inspirations, James Cone:

Quote:

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"If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill gods who do not belong to the black community."

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Sorry, but that isn't Christian theology, it's racist and has no place in the church - regardless of what happened in the past.

Quote:

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Past tense "was" and that's been awhile back since being named to any committee. You have it wrong again. Wright threw Obama under the bus. The retired Wright seemed to had thought that he was running for presidency. The only fault I have with Obama is that he didn't put Wright in his place sooner.

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I think I said "now that he's seemingly throwing Obama under the bus."

Quote:

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Name one black president then?? And don't say Bill Clinton, he just thought he was African-American. :)

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I can't name one if there hasn't been one, but I do support the idea which is what I said. I just refuse to vote for anyone as liberal as Obama or any black with such an "Afrocentric" influence. I'm ready to get past the color of a person's skin, aren't you?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Bobby, tell me you aren't really buying that. From The Rolling Stone in February, 2007:?

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1. I don't think that can be said of today's stats for black men in a traditional accepted White college vs those blacks in prison. But in context of the 1960's, a time directly after segregation, I'm not surprised if it's true.

2. Racism was part of the country in it's infancy stage and although via the proclamation of emancipation and civil rights of the 1960's that has brought people defined as African-American to a standard with the rest of the country, it's still exists on lower levels.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

I think they were attached at the hip.

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You have an opinion, not a fact. Even the parishioners (or deacons, I forget what they call themselves) of their Church have testified that they rarely have seen Obama in attendance and never was he in attendance with ranting of Wright's soundbites. That's already been investigated by the networks and proven fact. Obama has said his communication with Wright has been via phone conversations and few actual face to face discussions. Obama has never asked advice from Wright or his opinion concerning the politics or views of the campaign.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

I knew that would get you going but I've already explained it before. The point is simple, there is not one "Christian" theology for blacks and one "Christian" theology for whites, there is one Christ and He established one church. It ain't like I don't know there is a "black theology" or how, when and why it started - it's just as wrong as any any "white theology" that justified enslaving blacks. Here's an example from one of Wright's inspirations, James Cone:? Sorry, but that isn't Christian theology, it's racist and has no place in the church - regardless of what happened in the past

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That's because I recognize your side of religious history in the United States. It was made that way by the White Christians and it due to segregation. However Blacks used it for a sanctuary to discuss their treatment. The Black theology also provides the same gospel message the predominantly White Christian churches preach only with more of emphasis on human equality. I think your Christian testament would approve of that. Albeit today our government now affords people of color, human and civil rights, many of these churches that still preach Black theology are mixed with all races, including Whites. Obama and informed people (myself), comprehend the differences between Black theology, which is a fair Christian message, and the rants of Wrights on interjected opinions, such as thinking that our government introduced aids as a way to lower the Black population. Over the past years he has abused Black theology for his own extreme views.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

I think I said "now that he's seemingly throwing Obama under the bus."

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Some say, he did it for political reasons before having to campaign against McCain. If so then that's a good strategy, but the fact is he did denounce Wright's rants longs ago when the media first brought the issue up. Now he has cuts ties altogether as he should had done a year ago. To use the word "seemingly," seemingly Wright thought he was going to ride Obama's bus for his own extreme agenda (gathering publicity to himself), but Obama with all the respect he could muster finally had to kick his tuchus off.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

I can't name one if there hasn't been one, but I do support the idea which is what I said. I just refuse to vote for anyone as liberal as Obama or any black with such an "Afrocentric" influence. I'm ready to get past the color of a person's skin, aren't you?

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OK. I was interjecting humor when I asked you to name one black president. Obliviously we never have had one, which was my point. Are you asking me not to bring up race and neglect our country's history? If it doesn't apply to a subject, than you have my promise I want speak of it. But now your remarks about not voting for a person of "Afrocentric" influence isn't very becoming. It's your opinion to vote as you wish. However, I like living in America where we have different people from interesting backgrounds, just look at my family. I would never ask someone to disregard their ethnic heritage to be mainstream Amercian-Caucasian or any other. That would be disingenuous and disrespectful.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Hey Mods,
How many more of these anti-Obama threads is this member going to start? It's getting a little annoying:
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/search...archid=2734912


▒

---

Everyone here has the right to post what ever they want as long as it stay within the allowed content for the site.

If they so upset you, why do you keep reading and responding to them?

You can just ignore them you know?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Hey Mods,
How many more of these anti-Obama threads is this member going to start? It's getting a little annoying:
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/search...archid=2734912


▒

---

Everyone here has the right to post what ever they want as long as it stays within the allowed content for the site.

If they so upset you, why do you keep reading and responding to them?

You can just ignore them you know?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by progunr

You can just ignore them ya know?

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It's kind of hard to ignore this kind of dedication:
Attachment 8181

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BABRAM

]1. I don't think that can be said of today's stats...

2. Racism was part of the country in its infancy stage and although...

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The point wasn't stats or American history, but "the amount of Jeremiah Wright that's packed in" Obama's "openly radical" background as RS put it. Seems everyone sees it but you my friend.

Quote:

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You have an opinion, not a fact. Even the parishioners (or deacons, I forget what they call themselves) of their Church have testified that they rarely have seen Obama in attendance and never was he in attendance with ranting of Wright's soundbites. That's already been investigated by the networks and proven fact. Obama has said his communication with Wright has been via phone conversations and few actual face to face discussions. Obama has never asked advice from Wright or his opinion concerning the politics or views of the campaign.

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Bobby, RS notes above that Obama “uses Wright as a "sounding board" to "make sure I'm not losing myself in the hype and hoopla." Obama said, “Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes.” And besides calling him his “mentor” he said, “he has been like family to me.” Those are facts, not opinions. If he never discussed politics with Wright why did he name him to a committee on his campaign?

Quote:

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That's because I recognize your side of religious history in the United States. It was made that way by the White Christians and it due to segregation. However Blacks used it for a sanctuary to discuss their treatment. The Black theology also provides the same gospel message the predominantly White Christian churches preach only with more of emphasis on human equality. I think your Christian testament would approve of that.

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My point has nothing to do with recognizing “sides” of religious history or blacks using the church as” a sanctuary to discuss their treatment.” I recognize their history and don’t begrudge them using the church as such a sanctuary – but that has nothing to do with the validity of “black theology.” Wright claims, “Jesus was a poor black man who lived in a country and who lived in a culture, that was controlled by rich white people!” That’s factually incorrect, it’s a revisionist view created to support a racist theology that has no place in the church.

Quote:

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Albeit today our government now afford people of color, human and civil rights, many of these churches that still preach Black theology are mixed with all races…

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I can’t help that some confused white dude buys into black theology, my church is colorblind.

Quote:

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OK. I was interjecting humor when I asked you to name one black president. Obliviously we never have had one, which was my point. Are you asking me not to bring up race and neglect our country's history?

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Not at all, I’ve made it clear from the start of the campaign that race is not an issue for me and I’m not neglecting history - I was discussing Christian theology.

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But now your remarks about not voting for a person of "Afrocentric" influence isn't very becoming. It's your opinion to vote as you wish. However, I like living in America where we have different people from interesting backgrounds, just look at my family. I would never ask someone to disregard their ethnic heritage to be mainstream Amercian-Caucasian or any other. That would be disingenuous and disrespectful.

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Disregarding the first sentence, I feel exactly the same way. I would no more vote for a candidate with “Afrocentric” views than I would one with “Eurocentric” views. To do so would be an affront to everyone else…and that’s my point.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

The point wasn't stats or American history, but "the amount of Jeremiah Wright that's packed in" Obama's "openly radical" background as RS put it. Seems everyone sees it but you my friend.

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Everyone? I think we should give our fellow Americans more credit for being well rounded about every subject, rather than a mass plighted by tunnel vision. Provided Obama gets the nomination, come November let's see if your "everyone" sees it. I'll try to let your "everyone" down as easy as possible.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Bobby, RS notes above that Obama “uses Wright as a "sounding board" to "make sure I'm not losing myself in the hype and hoopla." Obama said, “Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes.” And besides calling him his “mentor” he said, “he has been like family to me.” Those are facts, not opinions. If he never discussed politics with Wright why did he name him to a committee on his campaign?

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Wright is the retired ex-pastor with extreme personal views. I have disagreements with rabbis. So? Controversial, but not of the context which Obama heard from later in those redundant soundbites. He was not at those specific services and again, to the blatant deafness of McCainites, it has been investigated by the media and proved that indeed Obama was not in attendance. And since when is being treated like family not an act of Christian kindness? That's a weird point to debate.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

My point has nothing to do with recognizing “sides” of religious history or blacks using the church as” a sanctuary to discuss their treatment.” I recognize their history and don't begrudge them using the church as such a sanctuary – but that has nothing to do with the validity of “black theology.” Wright claims, “Jesus was a poor black man who lived in a country and who lived in a culture, that was controlled by rich white people!” That's factually incorrect, it's a revisionist view created to support a racist theology that has no place in the church. I can't help that some confused white dude buys into black theology, my church is colorblind.

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Well I assume you ingested some facts that I gave you earlier. Again Wright puts addendum to Black theology, that includes is his own personal views. Coincidentally, I don't buy that your so colorblind. Last post you told how you wouldn't vote for anyone "Afrocentric", and now your concerned over Jesus skin color. While not all Black theologians agree on Jesus' skin color, you should learn that every culture in the world has Jesus depicted to their surrounding. Have you ever seen portraits of "Japanese Jesus?" How about "Aryan Jesus" hanging on the walls of American art galleries? When the Irish came to America they were looked upon as the new black.

Black Theology: Retrospect and Prospect (July 1979, Vol. 2):

"Whether one examines the contributions of George Liele or Andrew Bryan at the Yamacraw Baptist Church in 1777, or that of Absalom Jones and Richard Allen at Bethel Methodist Church in 1787, it becomes very evident that the attempt by black people to relate God to the black experience in a way which called into question the forces."

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Not at all, I've made it clear from the start of the campaign that race is not an issue for me and I'm not neglecting history - I was discussing Christian theology.

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Fair enough. With so many Christian theology brands to choose from, like domination's, good luck.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Disregarding the first sentence, I feel exactly the same way. I would no more vote for a candidate with “Afrocentric” views than I would one with “Eurocentric” views. To do so would be an affront to everyone else…and that's my point.

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What a surprise! We disagree again! As an American, I'd vote for either one!

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

The point wasn't stats or American history, but "the amount of Jeremiah Wright that's packed in" Obama's "openly radical" background as RS put it. Seems everyone sees it but you my friend.

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And in the meantime, it is HILLARY who continues to Climb in Popularity! Just look at the following! It appears Wright had the Wrong effect on Obama's campaign, but for Obama, it is too late to change that! This is from TODAY!

Political Radar: Obama's Negatives Rise, Clinton Tops McCain in New Poll

OMFG!!! That's amazing!!!!!!

Steve- I didn't know that you and Sky were both voting for Hillary. So many new revelations in one day. Wow! :eek:

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Originally Posted by BABRAM

Everyone? I think we should give our fellow Americans more credit for being well rounded about every subject, rather than a mass plighted by tunnel vision. Provided Obama gets the nomination, come November let's see if your "everyone" sees it. I'll try to let your "everyone" down as easy as possible.

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Bobby, why are those of us who see Wright's influence on Obama, 20 years of membership, self-admitted mentor, friend, 'sounding board,' inspiration, etc. - and see the difference between Hillary's pastor's secret crime and Hagee's non-influence on McCain - the ones with tunnel vision? Even some of Wright's defenders noticed he went off the deep end this past weekend and acknowledge the justified problems Obama is in over this relationship - not to mention Obama and Wright themselves acknowledging the potential for controversy a year ago. And we have tunnel vision?

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He was not at those specific services and again, to the blatant deafness of McCainites, it has been investigated by the media and proved that indeed Obama was not in attendance.

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You keep saying that but not showing us. "Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes."

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And since when is being treated like family not an act of Christian kindness? That's a weird point to debate.

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You're taking things in a direction I haven't gone again. Your point is irrelevant to what I said, the discussion was on Wright's influence on Obama and that comment was one facet of a larger context.

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Well I assume you ingested some facts that I gave you earlier. Again Wright puts addendum to Black theology, that includes is his own personal views.

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LOL, no - you assumed I was ignorant of things of which I'm not ignorant. I don't know of a pastor that doesn't inject his or her own views into sermons, but I know about the Christian church and Christian theology and Wright's racism and antics have no place in either.

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Coincidentally, I don't buy that your so colorblind. Last post you told how you wouldn't vote for anyone "Afrocentric", and now your concerned over Jesus skin color.

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I never expressed concern, I said Wright's comments were "a revisionist view created to support a racist theology."

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While not all Black theologians agree on Jesus' skin color, you should learn that every culture in the world has Jesus depicted to their surrounding. Have you ever seen portraits of "Japanese Jesus?" How about "Aryan Jesus" hanging on the walls of American art galleries? When the Irish came to America they were looked upon as the new black.

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Yes, Jesus has been depicted with various racial identities - that wasn't my point. The point is Wright's brand of 'Christianity' is fabricated to support racist theology. Again, from one of Wright's admitted inspirations, James Cone:

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"Black theology cannot accept a view of God which does not represent God as being for oppressed blacks and thus against white oppressors. Living in a world of white oppressors, blacks have no time for a neutral God. The brutalities are too great and the pain too severe, and this means we must know where God is and what God is doing in the revolution. There is no use for a God who loves white oppressors the same as oppressed blacks. We have had too much of white love, the love that tells blacks to turn the other cheek and go the second mile. What we need is the divine love as expressed in black power, which is the power of blacks to destroy their oppressors, here and now, by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject God's love."

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That's not all:

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In an interview, Cone said that when he was asked which church most embodied his message, "I would point to that church (Trinity) first." Cone also said he thought that Wright's successor, the Rev. Otis Moss III, would continue the tradition.

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Now you would have us believe that this man who would be president, who studied for two years at Occidental College, graduated from Columbia University and magna laude from Harvard Law School somehow didn't notice or comprehend this racist theology over a period of 20 years? Or, if he did it was just some insignificant area of disagreement with his friend and mentor?

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Fair enough. With so many Christian theology brands to choose from, like domination's, good luck.

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It has nothing to do with denominationalism, but the core principles of Christianity in which we do not find justification for racism and polarization in the church body.

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What a surprise! We disagree again! As an American, I'd vote for either one!

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That's odd Bobby, seeing as it is the left that preaches against this "white dominated society" and I'm the one saying I wouldn't vote for someone with that world view.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

That's odd Bobby, seeing as it is the left that preaches against this "white dominated society" and I'm the one saying I wouldn't vote for someone with that world view.

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So you WANT a "white dominated society"?

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

It's kind of hard to ignore this kind of dedication:
Attachment 8181

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Sure it is if you look at the page as is:

Steve-

Instead of me coming home after a long day at the office to play chase Republican ghost postulates, or going over and over Black history another time or two with you, or discussing the numerous theologies that Christians teach, I'll just say that a few things you've said in these threads are disturbing, and I completely disagree. Granted much of all our views are based on experiences, our cultures, and ethnic history. For example: my family often jests that our family's tree looks like the United Nations. I'll make no excuses, perhaps this does place my ideologies closer to Obama, than McCain (or Clinton for that matter). I do like the fact that Obama is liberal on some issues and I'll add my deep respect and gratitude for him being a civil rights lawyer. Your arguments mostly boil down to this, is Obama a racist? The answer is, absolutely not! I'm waiting for McCain to charge him otherwise in the national debates. McCainites will regret that decision.