Why did they do it? Israel said " its soldiers were trying to defend themselves against armed activists." That sounds like a big fat lie.
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Why did they do it? Israel said " its soldiers were trying to defend themselves against armed activists." That sounds like a big fat lie.
Haaretz says there were injured commandos.
Israel Navy commandos: Gaza flotilla activists tried to lynch us - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News
Twist the question, why did the boat load of trouble makers do it,
They knew there was an embargo, they knew that Israel was going to stop their boat, they went and did this to provoke them and make a media scene,
Knowing they were not suppose to take their boat, refusing to turn around when told, other nations would have just blown their boat out of the water.
Hello:
This was a Rachel Corey moment. Civilians should stay out of war zones. It's dangerous there.
excon
:(
It doesn't seem right that Israel can or should block aid from the Gaza Strip and the 1.5 million Palestinians who live there.
I feel like the people on the aid flotilla had a right to defend themselves. Sure, I don't know the whole story, but Israel seems in the wrong, to me.
Hello this:
My ship was involved in the blockade of Cuba. If someone tried to break the blockade, we would have blasted them out of the water. I'm sure the Cubans needed stuff. They STILL do.
This isn't about right or wrong. If you lived in Sderot where the Gazan rockets indiscriminately land, you'd think the Palestinians were wrong. This is about putting your life on the line for a cause you believe in.. These people did. Like Rachael Corey, some of them lost.
excon
I'm with Excon on this one . Who's to say that the ship wasn 't loaded with rockets ?
You can trust me ,a multitude of aid gets to Gaza ;mostly travelling through Israel . I have yet to see a photo of a starving Palestinian.
Perspective helps, thanks.
The Turks say the ship wasn't loaded with rockets, in any case, if the Israeli's find arms no doubt we will know about it. I'm not condoning Israel intercepting a ship in international waters but if it was blockade running, what did they expect? They expected to be intercepted, so the whole thing was a publicity stunt, they even had reporters embedded with them. Sometimes I wonder are these Palestinians and their supporters stupid or children,Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
The question, Tom, wasn't whether the Palestinians were starving but whether they had adequate medical supplies
They are full of it. You are correct this was pure agitprop. No coincidence that the UNSC has Lebanon as the rotating head at this time and they managed to fit in an emergency session in yesterday before the transfer .
There are more facts emerging that make it clear that the Israeli's ,instead of the accused deployment of disproportionate and excessive force ,showed restraint in the face of an attack against their commandos (armed with paintball guns and side arms only) by trained Palestinians on board wielding knives and Iron bars. They only opened fire with their sidearms after a few of their commandos were seriously hurt ;had their sidearms taken ;and were taking fire by the Palestinians .And this occurred on only one of the ships of the flotilla.
The facts are that the Israelis were more than willing to divert the cargo ships to the port of Ashdod where they would inspect the cargo and then transport the goods free of charge into Gaza . That is where the bulk of the aid people claim the Gazans are not getting is processed.
One has to remember that Gaza is now under the complete control of Hamas ;an internationally recognized terrorist group. Excon is correct that since they assumed control ,thousands of rockets have been fired into Israeli towns in the immediate vicinity . Rockets with longer range are beginning to infiltrate ;rockets that threaten Ben Gurion Airport and the nuclear facility at Negev.
Smuggling them in occures through 2 routes. Th first is a series of tunnels into Gaza from Egyptian Sinai. The 2nd is from ships that go as far as the shallow waters off the Gaza coast allows. Then smaller vessels (often fishing ships ) rendezvous with the supply ships and off load their illicit cargo. There is no blockade of legitimate cargo ; only weapons.
As usual when it comes to Israel, facts don't matter. The media is portraying this today as a "botched commando raid" by the ruthless IDF. Yesterday it was "Israelis kill 10 peace activists."
Here's your "peace" activists:
Hello again, this:
You decry what Israel did. Most of the world does too. But, most of the world is fickle. Because, while they hate what Israel did, they think we did a bang up job by killing Mustafa Abu al-Yazid, the #3 Al Quaida guy, with a Predator missile attack in Pakistan.
Why is one of them good, and the other bad? It's the same people fighting the same enemy. Is it OK with you that the United States occupies Pakistan, and mistakenly kills a few civilians now and then? What are we going to do to them if they send another bomber over here, and his bomb works?? If that happens, what Israel did on those boats ain't going to be NOTHING compared to what we're going to do to Pakistan.
What do you think about that?
excon
I think it all sucks. The video speechlesstx posted is pretty revealing. Peace! Short of that, I suppose it is "kill or be killed".
We nailed the jerk al-Yazid with an intent to use lethal force. It was for all intents an assassination . Good let him rot .
The Israelis had no intention to use lethal force. Their intel screwed up and they did not expect a violent confrontation. I don't know why they made that conclusion but it cost them in navy ops being injured .
The Israeli's constantly go out of their way to limit collateral damage even if it puts their troops at a greater risk. But the world gives them no slack or recognition .
Letting your rhetoric get a little loose with the facts there, EX, the US does not occupy Pakistan and it would not be all right with us if it did, in fact, it has been said before that it is time the US left Afghanistan and there is no reason for them to still have forces in Iraq. It is not all right that they kill civilians mistakenly or intentionally and if they can't run the war without collateral damage then they should leave. The shoot them up style just doesn't cut it either in Afghanistan or in the recent actions of IsraelQuote:
Originally Posted by excon
Hello clete:Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
I did suffer a senior moment, didn't I? It's OK. My last mistake was back in '02.
excon
It's okay Ex I know it is difficult for people in the US to keep these outer world places in place, one place looks so much like another, and it does, and we shouldn't let the facts get in the way of a good story.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
High handed tactics have landed Israel in a bunch of trouble and they haven't produced any evidence that there was contraband on those vessels. Having said that I see no reason for the activists to go berserk when the vessels were boarded although the timing and the manner leaves something to be desired
In both cases the US and Israel are exercising their right to self defense. If I was conducting an inquiry into the Israeli action I would be critical of their measured response to the challenge . Paint ball guns ? Gimme a break ! Kim Jong mentally-ILL got away with destroying a ship without provoction.Quote:
The shoot them up style just doesn't cut it either in Afghanistan or in the recent actions of Israel
Tom paint ball guns were innovative as a way not to Kill people but someone had a real gun and live ammunition otherwise they were the most deadly paint ball guns around.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Look why wasn't the flotilla stopped in daylight inside territorial waters? Why this high handed attack in international waters at night? There is self defense and there is stupidity which of course speaks to the military mind. As to Kim knong the ill he didn't do it in the glare of international media
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