According to the Vatican condemnation for its handling of the problems of child abuse and pedophile priests is akin to anti-semitism under the nazi. In other words daring to condemn the indefensible is anti-Christian.
Pope's preacher fuels ire
Let me say that this sort of defense is indefensible and the catholic hierarchy should know better. The problem isn't one of persecuting the RCC, the problem lies in the idea that any part of society is above the law or a law unto itself. We have left the middle ages and the privilege of the Church behind. No longer is the Church an instrument of the state. In this age the church must shape up and be what it preaches and be held accountable and if this means even its leader be held accountable then so be it. Only when the rot is purged from its ranks can it be what we expect it to be.

paraclete,

I think it is unfair of you to equate
Some rotten members of the RCC
With the RCC itself.

Roland.

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Originally Posted by ROLCAM

paraclete,

I think it is unfair of you to equate
some rotten members of the RCC
with the RCC itself.

roland.

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Roland I know that ordinary catholic people don't condone what has been done. However you cannot separate leadership from the Church which it leads. Those who were living in sin were preaching, what were they preaching? Hypocrites. It is a well known Scriptural principle that what is on the leadership comes down on the people. My comments are not just mine, they accord with the views of American Dominican Priest Tom Doyle. The hierarchy of the RCC has protected those who have displayed a total disregard for what Christ stood for, and the heirachy have even suggested that their action is permitted by God. This seems to be forgotten. That these disgusting reprobate individuals have been protected is anathema. Tom Doyle suggests that the Vatican should be sold off to Disney as an amusement park and a fresh start made and I think that such a suggestion should be considered seriously

paraclete,

Whoever Tom Doyle is ,is very immaterial. His views are not even worth 5 cents.
His suggestion is ludicrous and you very well know it.
The RCC has stood for 2,000 years after greater turmoils.

Orlando, Anaheim, Tokyo and Paris will all disappear , but the RCC will stand firm to the end of time.
You know WHY ?
The answer is :-
JESUS CHRIST its HEAD established it.
One question:-
Where is the fresh start going to come from ?
American Dominican TOM DOYLE!
It is just a big joke.

Roland.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ROLCAM

paraclete,

Whoever Tom Doyle is ,is very immaterial. His views are not even worth 5 cents.
His suggestion is ludicrous and you very well know it.
Where is the fresh start going to come from ?
American Dominican TOM DOYLE !!
It is just a big joke.

roland.

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Just to assist you Roland
Father Thomas Doyle Loses Job
http://www.sbs.com.au/dateline/story...ther-Tom-Doyle
Not all the Church's victims suffered sexual abuse. I don't doubt Doyle made the suggestion knowing that it would be considered ludicrous by some, but as an insider, he is aware of how difficult it is to bring about change and it might even take something as monumential as selling off the Holy See and Roland please remember Rome will pass away just as the rest of the world will long before the end of time. Rome is not the Church, the people are the Church

The structure of the RCC is the problem. A leader selected by an elite few allows for promotion based on politics not religious strength. The cardinals and pope are selected based not on their strength as teachers, leaders, but rather on how well their politics mesh with what the others want to see. As with any politician, the church hierarchy will cover up anything that could damage their image.

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Originally Posted by 450donn

the church hierarchy will cover up anything that could damage their image.

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Hello Clete:

The problem is that there IS a church hierarchy in the first place. There needn't be. There's no hierarchy in MY religion, and it's lasted 4,000 years longer than yours. Plus, I promise you, that if each Catholic church were autonomous, any priest who molested boys would be in jail.

I agree with 450, but I'll bet for entirely different reasons.

excon

Hello EC
I tend to disagree with you thinking here. Everybody must answer to someone higher.
Even Jesus answered to God the Father. Any organization needs to have a hierarchy of some sort. Some are looser than than others, but all organization needs to answer to someone or something. Heck I'll bet you even have to answer to the federal government.

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Originally Posted by 450donn

Hello EC
I tend to disagree with you thinking here. Everybody must answer to someone higher.

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Hello again, 450:

I can't believe that you took my post to mean that Jews don't answer to a higher authority. But you did. Oh, well. They just don't answer to a higher HUMAN authority. Hell, even the rabbi of the local synagogue isn't in charge of anything.

excon

See that is exactly my point, The Jews still answer to God. But the RCC apparently does not answer to anyone but a political leader, the pope. And we can all see how well that has turned out for them over the last 1500 or so years LOL.
Murder of Christians, rape beating those that disagree with their dogma. You get my point?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello Clete:

The problem is that there IS a church hierarchy in the first place. There needn't be. There's no hierarchy in MY religion, and it's lasted 4,000 years longer than yours. Plus, I promise you, that if each Catholic church were autonomous, any priest who molested boys would be in jail.

I agree with 450, but I'll bet for entirely different reasons.

excon

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What I think you are saying ex is that overall you are leaderless and therefore there can be many intrepretations whereas in the RCC there is only one interpretation and on this particular issue it has been protection and cover up. We all have differing standards and some it seems misplaced loyalties

All this trash talk about Catholics will die down now that Easter is over . The news today was dominated with stories like "The Vatican celebrated mass on it's holiest day BUT didn't address the sex scandal". The press will begin to lose interest in the story .

Father Raniero Cantalamessa is a moron for attempting to equate the criminal action of the guilty priests and hierarchy with anti-Semitic stereo-types. The comparison is not even close.

Para, Ex

Hey I agree with you on this. The pope is where the buck stops [ here on earth ] for the RCC. For these crimes to be hidden and an attempt to be swept under the rug is not right. To equate individual Roman Catholics, or the whole RCC as approving of these crimes is wrong also. To think that these injustices have been committed by those who were suppose to God's intermediaries is heartbreaking.



G&P

The church leadership have sinned (in their terms) and their behavior should be condemned, including Ratzinger's.

I don't consider catholics responsible. They are the victims of their own leaders.

As for the Church, it's not a person. You cannot persecute an institution. It is not alive and has no feelings. It cannot go to heaven or hell. I have no pity for an institution that torments children. If the institution wants to be respected by the world, it needs to become a different institution.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tomder55

all this trash talk about Catholics will die down now that Easter is over . The news today was dominated with stories like "The Vatican celebrated mass on it's holiest day BUT didn't address the sex scandal". The press will begin to lose interest in the story .

Father Raniero Cantalamessa is a moron for attempting to equate the criminal action of the guilty priests and heirarchy with anti-semetic stereo-types. The comparison is not even close.

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I don't know what trash talk you speak of. I comment only on the facts about child abuse and failure to take responsibility, but I do think the ordinary people of the RCC have been silent too long, one could say the silence of the lambs. For this reason I don't think this will die down until real justice is seen to be done, and that might include more than a few Bishops falling on their sword. It really is time for all those who have been protected to be exposed and ostered along with those who protected them. I think this same standard should be applied in any other organisation where it might be applicable

In my opinion anyone that would molest an underage child is a criminal and should stand trial.

Noted atheists Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens plan on having the Pope arrested during his visit to the UK.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Noted atheists Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens plan on having the Pope arrested during his visit to the UK.

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That has already been debunked though I would like to see it.

http://i.imgur.com/TnVtX.jpg

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

That has already been debunked though I would like to see it.

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I see where Dawkins allegedly backed off somewhat, but it sure seems their lawyers have stated otherwise.