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    c___l's Avatar
    c___l Posts: 42, Reputation: 2
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    #1

    Jul 21, 2011, 08:21 PM
    Theft under $5000 from two stores, 18, Canada
    A few weeks ago, I was caught shoplifting at a clothing store, a tshirt that costed under $20. The cashiers called security and they took me back to their office and searched my bags, and found another tshirt that I have taken from a separate store. I do have fingerprint and court dates arranged that I have to attend. I was just wondering if the judge/crown will be more serious about this case because I have shoplifted twice in the same day. Will I still be able to be up for diversion? This is my first offence, so usually I've read that people can have a chance at a diversion program, but I'm not really sure about this, because I have been charged for two separate stores. THANK YOU VERY MUCH for your help, my court date is in 3 weeks or so.
    c___l's Avatar
    c___l Posts: 42, Reputation: 2
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    #2

    Jul 21, 2011, 08:24 PM
    I also wanted to add that I am doing this without my parents' help. Is there any way I can talk to some sort of legal aid on the phone or for a very low price? Is it recommended to have legal aid? I read somewhere that someone was offered a diversion program form when they showed up for court.
    c___l's Avatar
    c___l Posts: 42, Reputation: 2
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    #3

    Aug 19, 2011, 02:26 PM
    Crossing US Border, Theft under 5000 withdrawn charge
    I got my charges withdrawn today for theft under 5000. Is this an absolute discharge?

    I am also travelling to Hawaii in 3 days, and I don't know if it will show in the CPIC. Will a withdrawn charge cause the US to stop me from entering the states? What are the chances that I will be held back in Canada?
    Fr_Chuck's Avatar
    Fr_Chuck Posts: 81,278, Reputation: 7690
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    #4

    Aug 19, 2011, 03:07 PM
    Convictions are the problems, there is really no term as "absolute discharge" unless the case was dismissed where they can not refile. If they have the ability to refile charges, then there is not absolute.

    But you will not have a issue since there is no charges against you
    c___l's Avatar
    c___l Posts: 42, Reputation: 2
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    #5

    Aug 19, 2011, 06:44 PM
    Thank you for the assurance. However, the fingerprints will be visible to the US customs, right? Will that be a problem? I just explain the situation?
    Fr_Chuck's Avatar
    Fr_Chuck Posts: 81,278, Reputation: 7690
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    #6

    Aug 20, 2011, 12:02 PM
    Fingerprint is just proof of ID, Your fingerprint file contains no criminal information what so ever.

    With use of fingerprints, they confirm your ID, ( or if you have used other names) and then they can run in the US, a NCIC criminal check. It will show the result of any court, dismissed, convicted, plea, explunged and so on.

    Dismissed is dismissed, means they could not convict.
    c___l's Avatar
    c___l Posts: 42, Reputation: 2
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    #7

    Nov 14, 2011, 05:28 PM
    Sorry for adding this in so late after this thread has been made, but I am going to be travelling to the states through car from Canada during the Christmas holidays. I am going to be travelling with my parents, and I don't want them to know of this event. When the US border scans your passport, will they see the record? Do they usually ask you why you have your fingerprint taken? I just don't want my parents to know that I even had my fingerprint done.
    AK lawyer's Avatar
    AK lawyer Posts: 12,592, Reputation: 977
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    #8

    Nov 14, 2011, 05:35 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by c___l View Post
    ... When the US border scans your passport, will they see the record? Do they usually ask you why you have your fingerprint taken? ...
    What makes you think they will see your fingerprint when they scan your passport?
    c___l's Avatar
    c___l Posts: 42, Reputation: 2
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    #9

    Nov 14, 2011, 07:52 PM
    I was told that my fingerprints will still be available for the customs to see, even if my charge is withdrawn, and that the only way I am able to destroy them is to sign up for it after 5 months of my withdrawal date. Why, are they not going to be able to see it?
    Fr_Chuck's Avatar
    Fr_Chuck Posts: 81,278, Reputation: 7690
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    #10

    Nov 14, 2011, 10:23 PM
    If they run your finger prints it will be available, and it will say who you are. If they run a records check, they may see that you were charged and dismissed.
    c___l's Avatar
    c___l Posts: 42, Reputation: 2
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    #11

    Dec 1, 2011, 02:18 PM
    When you cross the border through car, do they usually do fingerprint checks and records checks?
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,505, Reputation: 4600
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    #12

    Dec 1, 2011, 03:14 PM
    I'm ex-US Customs. I don't foresee anyone checking your fingerprints. I DO see the authorities running your name.

    My bigger question is YOUR version of withdrawing the charges may very well be the authorities' version of adjournment in contemplation of dismissal, dismissed pending additional information. Also, how were you charged? If what you were charged with is a felony in the US and your record is checked you will NOT be allowed entry.

    You were stopped by one store and charged with two counts of shoplifting - https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/crimin...da-588769.html. That was in July of this year. I find it difficult to believe that both stores withdrew all charges UNLESS you were placed on diversion.

    Need more info on your status. If you ARE on diversion and ARE stopped you will NOT be allowed to enter. The US will take the position that there are enough people stealing here. We don't need to import anyone else. And, believe it or not, that was the routine statement when "we" stopped someone either trying to sneak in OR not giving true ID OR arguing with "us."

    I think it's possible you will be stopped and checked.

    A LOT depends on your crossing point, also.

    I never knew anyone whose fingerprints were run PRIOR to their arrest. That's why the US runs a record check - if that shows up positive and you argue it's an error (or not you) then you can be arrested and your fingerprints can be run.
    c___l's Avatar
    c___l Posts: 42, Reputation: 2
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    #13

    Dec 1, 2011, 10:28 PM
    Thanks for your detailed input.

    I was charged with two counts of shoplifting, and completed the diversion in August 2011. I'm in Canada, and they said that the charges are withdrawn, but the information will still be available and fingerprint records are still there. Does that mean with withdrawn charges, they deny your entry to the US?

    I'm also going to apply to destroy my fingerprints in January, since it's 5 months after the charge. Once the fingerprints are destroyed, will they be able to access your records and stop you from crossing the border?

    Sorry for my many questions.
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,505, Reputation: 4600
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    #14

    Dec 2, 2011, 08:26 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by c___l View Post
    Thanks for your detailed input.

    I was charged with two counts of shoplifting, and completed the diversion in August 2011. I'm in Canada, and they said that the charges are withdrawn, but the information will still be available and fingerprint records are still there. Does that mean with withdrawn charges, they deny your entry to the US?

    I'm also going to apply to destroy my fingerprints in January, since it's 5 months after the charge. Once the fingerprints are destroyed, will they be able to access your records and stop you from crossing the border?

    Sorry for my many questions.

    You are "hung up" on the fingerprints issue. Your criminal record lives on, fingerprints on file or not. You've been fingerprinted. Your fingerprints are part of the Canadian law enforcement system. I simply cannot believe (based on experience) that your fingerprints are going to be removed from that system.

    You aren't understanding what people are telling you - the US does NOT routinely fingerprint people as they cross the border, not even close. What they WILL do is "run" your name (if they feel it is necessary or you are the random person they decide to check) and they will see that you were charged, received diversion and the charge was dismissed.

    You are dealing with the Federal Government here, not some small-time law enforcement agency. They can and will access your past record IF they so decide. Will your arrest keep you out of the US? No, not unless the crime you were charged with would be a felony in the US. Shoplifting (even though it's twice) in your case did not rise to the level of a felony.

    They MIGHT ask you about your arrest, what happened, why. It could happen. I'm not saying it WILL happen.

    Think of it this way - diversion is available to first time offenders. If you receive diversion and the record is TOTALLY removed EVERYONE would always be a first-time offender as there would be no record of previous arrests.
    c___l's Avatar
    c___l Posts: 42, Reputation: 2
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    #15

    Dec 4, 2011, 07:15 PM
    Have there been any cases in which they denied entry into the US if diversion was given?

    I was just wondering what shows up when your passport is scanned. Does it tell the customs right away of the criminal record, or do they have to run your name and check further on of your charge? Do US customs frequently run checks on people crossing the border?

    Thank you for taking the time to answer the questions.
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,505, Reputation: 4600
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    #16

    Dec 5, 2011, 06:48 AM
    No, it does not show when the Passport is scanned. It does show on secondary examination - and that happens on the suspicion (or whim) of the Border Agent. Depends on where you cross - at one crossing it's 1 out of 20. Hard to believe.
    c___l's Avatar
    c___l Posts: 42, Reputation: 2
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    #17

    Dec 9, 2011, 09:01 PM
    Do they tend to do secondary examinations when travelling in families?

    Is there any possible way that this record will be expunged, or will it be on my record for life?
    Fr_Chuck's Avatar
    Fr_Chuck Posts: 81,278, Reputation: 7690
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    #18

    Dec 9, 2011, 09:13 PM
    The do secondary exams at random, 90 year old ladies, families, girl scouts, does not matter, Also if you fit some profile. Or as in your case, you seem to nervous you worry about it and your worry can be seen on your face.

    Shoplifting, OK get over it, even if it showed up as convicted and you paid a fine, it would not stop you from coming into the US.
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,505, Reputation: 4600
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    #19

    Dec 10, 2011, 10:52 AM
    And I will let everyone in on a hint - there's a magic number involving license plates, a number which changes every day. I'm ex-US Customs. I got stopped and my car inspected very thoroughly because I was driving a car with the "lucky number."

    Yes, people with families are stopped. The entire family can be denied entry and turned around IF the Officers thinks the family knew there was a criminal record and was complicit in the attempt to cross.

    You COULD be embarrassed in front of your family. I doubt you would be denied entry - but there are no guarantees.

    Wouldn't it just be easier to tell your family?
    c___l's Avatar
    c___l Posts: 42, Reputation: 2
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    #20

    Dec 10, 2011, 09:01 PM
    It would be difficult. I went through the process of diversion and courts alone, because of my parents' busy schedule and issues ongoing at home. I am just worried that they will ask me about my records even if they saw that the charges were withdrawn, and even though I probably would be allowed entry into the US.

    I was also wondering about criminal/police checks for employment. Will the record show up on my police check, or does it only show convictions?

    How does the expungement of records process work? A lot of people have been telling me that I could wait a few years before expungement of my records.

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