I am 19 years of age, and I was arrested and charge with theft under 5000 AT walmart, I know this is a stupid decision on my part. And I would do ANYTHING to change that what that's too late now, so I had a date for fingerprinting (May 23rd) and a court date (MAY 30). Was arrested on may 2nd. I live in toronto, Canada, and I went to seek help, went to the went to the Legal Aid office for some help. And they told me that they cannot give me a lawyer since I have no chance of going to jail, (its my first offense)and I asked them if I will get a criminal record they told me I probably won't, and they told me I have to go to the court earlier in the same day and ask for a "divertion" and they won't even put me through the court and everything, they said I just probably have to do some service, and maybe attend some classes. Is this TRUE?. cause I don't have a LAWYER , I am just planning to go by myself and follow what the legal aid lady told me to do... is this the right way to go about it ? What about my fingerprints and everything?. what about my future will it be affected?
Thanks for your help... if anyone knows what I should do now? Just wait?

Someone else on this site from Canada who knows the laws there may have a better answer. But, I would suggest going to a lawyer and getting the free initial consultation to see what he or she thinks.

There are several threads here that discuss the same situation you find yourself in. Yes, you go to the court and ask for a diversion. This should be granted for a first offense. Generally, you will have to do some penance under probation, once completed your record will be expunged.

Go to the court and talk to them.

All right, so basically, I just have to wait for the trial date, and ask for a diversion (so I won't even have to go through with the trial) and how many hours of community service would they usually make me complete? How long would they let me complete the amount of hours? And would they set another date for me to after I finish to judge me again? Like the crown would withdraw the charges or grant me a "absolute discharge"?what does that really mean? Also would there be any DISADVANTAGES with accepting a diversion?
So basically if I follow through with the diversion, my future won't be ruined?

Well don't mind to sound hard, but who cares how many hours and how long you have to do it, if you have to do it for 8 hours a day for the next month, does it really matter if you get this off your record?

The judge will assign you, and give you a number of months to complete it, so you just do it. And yes normally you have to return the complete community service paper work with the court. ( my not have to actually appear) and the charges are withdrawn

Disadvantages, you won't have a criminal record, so a career as a rap singer is hurt

NO! Don't wait for the trial date. Speak to the court NOW about what you need to do.

Umm scott.. I already talked to the legal aid representative... and I called the court they don't do anything BUT have trials there... the legal aid rep. told me to just have to go earlier on the same day right before the trial and ask for a diversion... but this sounds SO last minute... but I have to believe what they say since my finger printing is TOMORROW and the trial date is a week from then... and by any chance could I not do any hours of service, but rather pay a LARGE amount of fine instead. just wondering...

Hire a lawyer. It's a very good idea.

I really don't know whether you can choose a fine in lieu of community service. That will be up to the judge. If you can afford a large fine, then maybe you can afford an attorney.

I think you need to go back to the court and ask for info on a "diversion" they should be able to tell you that.

Hi everyone,

I'm in a similar situation as the threadstarter.

I'm a 18 year old. I got caught for shoplifting at shoppers this year jan. The store called the police and everything, but the police decided to let me go free since it was my first time. The police told me that if I get caught again, I'm going to be charged for this time and the next time. Is this possible or was he just trying to scare me?

Then later this year in April, I decided to shoplift again, thinking that I wouldn't get caught(I know, stupid!). I stole about $40 at zellers. When the police came, they found out that I was caught previously. I asked for forgiveness but this time they were like, no you're getting charged for sure.

I already went to the police station earlier this month to get my fingerprints and such. My court date is tomorrow and I'm not sure what's going to happen? Are they going to give me a criminal record since technically this is my second time getting caught shoplifting? Or are they not going to count my first time? I don't have a lawyer so I'm going by myself. Is there anything I should take note of? Should I ask for a diversion?

Thanks!

Yes you have the same situation so yes take the same advice.

Hey babyghOst...
Can you let me know why happened when you went to trial... did they just give you service, fine, or made you attend a program?.
May you let me know please and thank you...
I think you should ask for duty counselling...

At court, you will be asked how you plead, guilty or not guilty?

Be prepared and be scared. If your intent is to ask for a "divertion", you or your lawyer better talk to the crown prosecuter first. A plead of 'not guilty' disqualifies you from a divertion and a plead of guilty gives the crown no reason to grant you a divertion!

I never been in court before for anything so I had no idea what was going to happen. My court meeting was at 2pm, I got there at around 1:30pm. I explained to the lady at the front desk that I was charged for theft under and told her that I wanted to apply for diversion. She referred me to judy counselling. I went to their office but they were on their lunch break. So then the officer told me to wait until 2pm, go to the court room and ask for deversion there.

I waited for about, I'd say, 30mins, then went to the court room that I was suppose to be in, waited for another 20mins until they called my name. The guy at the court said that I might be egliable for adult deversion so he told me to go to the diversion program room and apply for diversion.

So I got to the diversion room, there was a lady there and she asked me some basic questions like where I live, why I committed the crime, what do I do for a living, etc. She told me that since this was my first time, all I have to do is write an letter of apology to zellers and attend a shoplifting program which is only 3 hours long. After the completion of these two tasks, I'll have to go back to court again and the court will withdraw my charges and I won't have a criminal record. I had to sign few forms agreeing to the things she told me. After that, the lady took me back to the court room and the judge approved me for the program.

So basically, all I have to do is write a one page apology to zellers and go to the shoplifting seminar then go back to court again to show the judge that I've completed my tasks. I was surprised that they didn't make me do any community service, maybe they felt sorry for me or something, I don't know o_O

But yah, it wasn't really that bad at all. The people there were pretty nice. I'm just glad that they let me off easy and that I won't have a criminal record and my life won't be ruined because of this :)

Babygh0st must have a lucky charm. I think everyone in her situation can attest that her experiences are definitely the exception and not the rule! Maybe the judge had a dentist appointment that day or called in sick?

Thanks for letting me know what happened... and really... I am glad.. cause I have my trial soon.. and where did you attend the program... and you can get rid of your fingersprints now after you go back... and did the police show up.. the one that charged you.. if he didn't then you will be withdraw right away.. cause I have a friend their parents are cops and they said that 50% of the time they don't show up cause they have to take off work and they don't get paid... and today I went for my fingerprints and the police (what unfriendly people) threaten me that I would go to jail... what da?. and when is your next trial day set at... a couple of weeks?. or months..

One more question... what did you say when they ask you why you did it..?. I don't know if I should tell the truth... or make up something.. cuase that's what I did when they FIRST caught me... I told them that some one MADE me DO It... or should I just stick to that STORY?.

The 'Alternate Measures' program or 'Divertion' is not to give the offenders a second chance. The second chance ended at 18 years of age.

It is a program put in place to relieve courts of high volume when people who are arrested plead not guilty. The conditions are:

1. You must seek the program BEFORE your initial court appearance,
2. You must admit your mistake (that means no lies) and
3. You must participate in any alternate measures place upon you by the crown (donations to charity, voluntary work, conselling, ect).

Upon completion, you receive no permanent record of the crime. I'm not sure, but I do not believe that fingerprints are removed from the system so that you can forget about repeating the program if you repeat the crime.

As Bhayne said, while your criminal record is expunged that is generally only as far as the public is concerned. If you are arrested again your fingerprints will be on file for the police to check.

As for the police being unfriendly, YOU broke the law. YOU attempted to steal. YOU committed a crime! Why should the police be friendly to you? If you were a victim, yes, but not the perp. As for the officer showing up, that's not needed. The complainant is the store. All the prosecutor should need is an affadavits from the store employee who caught you.

The court that I went to was in Scarborough on Eglinton ave. They told me that I won't be able to destroy my fingerprints since I'm pleading guilty. No one at the store nor the police that arrested me was there in the court.

I didn't get a chance to ask for diversion before my court appearance. Basically what happened was that they called my name, I went up to the centre of the court, the lady looked over my stuff, told the judge that I might be egliable for diversion, and then an officer told me to go to another room to talk to the people that work in diversion. Throughout the whole time, I didn't even say much. They didn't ask me any questions and mostly they were discussing among themselves(and I didn't really understand what they were saying, I'm not familiar with law terms). So yah, the whole time I just smiled and nodded.

When the lady at the diversion program asked me why I did it, I said that I was just being stupid and I didn't think I would get caught. I don't think it's a good idea to say that someone else made you do it cause there's a chance that you might get the other person invovled(don't snitch!). The lady said that everything that I tell her is confidential so she's not going to go and tell the police what I've told her. Honestly, I don't think it really matters what you tell her, I would suggest making up some bullshi to make her feel sorry for you so she'll make you do less work.

The cops are real Aholes. Not really surprising though, since most of them aren't very educated. But I find the people at the court are a lot nicer and polite.

I'm going back to court again on June 11th(you get to pick your court date this time). All I have to do is attend the program and write my letter before then and I'll be set.

Overall, this whole thing wasn't bad AT ALL. Don't worry about it much. Just try to persuade whoever at the diversion program to show that you're a good person and you're really sorry for what you've done(even if you're not :P).

Oh you cannot destroy the finger print... and NO ONE showed up?. does that mean that you could have been plead not guilty since no one was there to accuses you... and you MIGHT be eligible..?. there is a chance that YOU might NOT... really no why that means I might be SCREWED... umm for your program.. where did you attend that... where is it.. how do you SHOW that you are a good person:)... so that means you don't have a criminal record... but the police HAS a record if you get caught?.

You can't go by one person's experience in a different court. You have to assume that the court is not going to make it easy on you and you have to stand up for yourself. DO NOT take the chance that the court will offer diversion, make sure you find out about it beforehand! It might not be necessary for your accusers to be in court at this point. The arresting officer is not necessary since he didn't witness anything. A store representative may or may not be there, but the prosecutor will have a statement from them. If you plead guilty then they don't need to be there. If you plead not guilty, then a trial date will be set and they will show up then.

Don't take a chance since you WILL lose a trial. Get the diversion nailed down. Also, you should have no need to worry if the police have a record of this little escapade, you aren't planning on doing this again, are you?

Oh... but I am pretty sure that I can ask for a diversion... because the legal aid lady told me that I could... and there is no point of her lying... she is like its your first time... and like the store got their items back...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by joecool5

oh... but i am pretty sure that i can ask for a diversion... becuase the legal aid lady told me that i could... and there is no point of her lying... she is like its your first time... and liek the store got their items back ...

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We've been telling you you CAN ask for a diversion. But BEFORE you go into court.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bhayne

Upon completion, you receive no permanent record of the crime. I'm not sure, but I do not believe that fingerprints are removed from the system so that you can forget about repeating the program if you repeat the crime.

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Fingerprints/identification are removed from the system automatically after 6 months or you can apply to have them removed early upon clearing up your record at the court. Early removal is 2 weeks time line. Now this is in Alberta but I would imagine it is the same in other provinces since theft under 5K is a federal crime.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by joecool5

i am 19 years of age, and i was arrested and charge with theft under 5000 AT walmart, i know this is a stupid desicion on my part. and i would do ANYTHING to change that what thats too late now, so i had a date for fingerprinting (May 23rd) and a court date (MAY 30). was arrested on may 2nd. I live in toronto, Canada, and i went to seek help, went to the went to the Legal Aid office for some help. and they told me that they cannot give me a lawyer since i have no chance of goin to jail, (its my first offense)and i asked them if i will get a criminal record they told me i probably wont, and they told me i have to go to the court earlier in the same day and ask for a "divertion" and they wont even put me through the court and everything, they said i just probably have to do some service, and maybe attend some classes. is this TRUE?... cause i dont have a LAWYER , i am just planning to go by myself and follow what the legal aid lady told me to do.... is this the right way to go about it ? what about my fingerprints and everything?... what about my future will it be affected?
thanks for your help...if anyone knows what i should do now? just wait?

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Its beter you do get a lawyer cause your not under 18 u will get a bad record 4 probabley 5yrs ithink you won't go 2 jail cause its your 1st offence if you re ofend different issue but you can get a lawyer and she will tell you what's going on there are government lawyers you don't have 2 pay

Quote:

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Originally Posted by leilaa111

its beter u do get a lawyer cause ur not under 18 u will get a bad record 4 probabley 5yrs ithink u wont go 2 jail cause its ur 1st offence if u re ofend differnt issue but u can get a lawyer and she will tell u whats going on there r government lawyers u dont have 2 pay

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First this is not a IM or chat room. We don't need to use chatspeak here. You will be more understandable if you write in full words.

Second, With a first offense as several others said there is unlikely to be anything on the permanent record.

Hi guys... just went to court today... and I didn't have a lawyer... went to duty council... and she helped me out a lot... and guess what I AM free... just had to donate some money... and don't listen to the people that is telling you to get a lawyer on this forum... if you Don't need one... meaning... first offense... then you Don't need one... if the WORSE comes to WORST... when you go and you DO need a lawyer.. the duty council will ask you to ASK the judge for like four weeks or something... THEN get a lawyer... no point of spending useless money... when you Don't have to...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by joecool5

hi guys.... just went to court today..... and i didnt have a lawyer... went to duty council ... and she helped me out a lot....and guess what I AM free... just had to donate some money ..... and dont listen to the people that is telling you to get a lawyer on this forum... if you DONT need one... meaning .... first offense .... then you DONT need one... if the WORSE comes to WORST.... when you go and you DO need a lawyer.. the duty council will ask you to ASK the judge for like four weeks or somethign... THEN get a lawyer..... no point of spending useless money... when you DONT have to ....

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Glad it worked for you. Most of the responses predicted that, but the advice to not get a lawyer is not good advice. In this case it may not have been needed. But often a lawyer can help you avoid the trouble where you find you need one.