My son 17 was charged with theft under 5000 and possession under 5000 for stealing a carton of cigarettes and credit card and used the credit card for $5 . Two weeks later he was at wrong place with friennds who started stealing from cars at mall. He himself did not steal but didn't want to leave friends without ride home so hung around on the lookout and one friend put stolen property in his pocket so he was charged again with theft under 5000 and possession under 5000. Different jurisdictins. Do we need a lawyer or is duty counsel enough to help us in the different court proceedings. Should he plead guilty. Would he be eligible for any type of diversion programs. He was living on his own and ran out of money when both of these crimes took place. He has since moved back home under our supervision. Would this make a difference?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ceilingtile

My son 17 was charged with theft under 5000 and possession under 5000 for stealing a carton of cigarettes and credit card and used the credit card for $5 . Two weeks later he was at wrong place with friennds who started stealing from cars at mall. He himself did not steal but didn't want to leave friends without ride home so hung around on the lookout and one friend put stolen property in his pocket so he was charged again with theft under 5000 and possession under 5000. different jurisdictins. do we need a lawyer or is duty counsel enough to help us in the different court proceedings. shoudl he plead guilty. would he be eligible for any type of diversion programs. He was living on his own and ran out of money when both of these crimes took place. He has since moved back home under our supervision. would this make a difference?

---

If he was the lookout he was involved in the thefts. Of course, he also was in possession of whatever was stolen when arrested. I would NOT use "he didn't want to leave friends without a ride home" as a legal defense!

Are you in Canada?

If so - here is something I wrote:

“Ontario diversion program guidelines vary from region to region, courthouse to Courthouse. Eligibility for such a program is ALWAYS determined by the Crown Attorney’s office. There are no exceptions. You are not required to have legal counsel in order to apply.

If the offense - theft - is not major (property was recovered, not a large amount, not a repeat offender) the Crown Attorney MAY approve eligibility into the diversion program prior to the Court appearance. If there are prior dealings with the Police - and charges do not have to be placed, any prior dealings of a negative nature - the person will most likely not be eligible for the diversion program.

As part of the diversion program the eligible person will have to agree to complete certain tasks or obligations - perhaps watch a video, make a donation or volunteer time to a not-for-profit, write a paper on the crime.

When the tasks/obligations have been competed to the satisfaction of the Crown’s Attorney he/she will recommend to the Judge that the criminal charge (usually, theft) be withdrawn.

Each courthouse in Ontario has a different diversion program and eligibility requirements differ from region to region. Eligibility for the diversion program is always determined by the Crown Attorney's office. If they deem a theft offence to be of a minor nature (usually a small quantity of merchandise was taken and the property was recovered), the Crown may pre-approve eligibility into the diversion program. A person will not generally be eligible for diversion if they have had prior dealings with the police (even if it did not result in a criminal charge being laid). Once in the diversion program, the eligible candidate may be asked to complete one of a number of different tasks. In some jurisdictions, a person charged with theft may be required to watch a video on shoplifting. In other jurisdictions they may be required to make a donation to charity or complete a minimum number of community service hours - or both. Regardless of the requirements, the end result is usually the same. Once the diversion program has been completed to the satisfaction of the Crown Attorney, the Crown will recommend to the court that the criminal charge of theft be withdrawn against the accused person. This will result in the accused person maintaining a clean record (assuming they didn't have a prior criminal record).

If a person is not pre-screened as eligible for the diversion program, a lawyer may be able to convince a Crown Attorney to reconsider their decision.”

Do we have to apply to the crown before court date to apply for diversion program or do we do that on the court date and ask duty counsel?

Quoting myself: "If the offense - theft - is not major (property was recovered, not a large amount, not a repeat offender) the Crown Attorney MAY approve eligibility into the diversion program prior to the Court appearance. If there are prior dealings with the Police - and charges do not have to be placed, any prior dealings of a negative nature - the person will most likely not be eligible for the diversion program."

Hello c:

Diversion is usually reserved for petty crimes. While I see that your son ONLY committed a petty crime, according to you, I see that he's being charged with much more serious offenses.

So, speaking about diversion, when I think his GUILT is the thing you should be speaking of, is verrrrrry premature.

I think you should be speaking about where you can get the best lawyer for him, and how you can minimize his sentence.

excon

My son was caught stealing - possession under 5000 and theft under 5000. They want to give him a conditional discharge where he is on probation for a year and needs to go for some type of counselling. Could I ask the crown for drug testing also or should I leave it alone. I suspect drugs are involved in his risky behaviour

If you suspect drugs are involved, and you want the best for your son, demand a drug screening.

Sure, he may be all like "mom u suk" right now, but, if it helps straighten him out in the long run, he'll only love you more for it. Chances are the probation will not change, but the required counseling will be lengthened, and/or a different program added.

He was in possession and you think they should do a drug screen, you want him charged with another crime of drug use also??

Next you don't or can't do anything, except give son advice since I would assume he is a adult

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

He was in possession and you think they should do a drug screen, you want him charged with another crime of drug use also ???

---

Sorry Chuck, didn't read OP clearly, missed possession. Wouldn't they automatically do a drug screening usually if charged with possession anyway?

Hello:

I've been reading... From what I gather, the OP means possession of stolen property, not drugs... But, I can't tell. She mentions nothing more about drugs anywhere.

In either case, I suggest the OP does NOT confuse the probation department with a social agency.

excon

Yeah I think they are saying stolen property not involving drugs in which case the court would not be involved in ordering drug testing.

You are right and I was wrong, guess the question drug, and the word possession, got me off track.

But yes, they already have them on the other charges, giving them a confession on using drugs can only hurt, not help.

Using drugs does not change anything about being guilty, it may be something the lawyer may use latter in sentencing but I doubt that would be good for that either

Good point don't want to get him in more legal problems than he already is in.
Find a way to find answers and get through to him.

Hmm... well, I was just saying to press the drug charges because, he may think "okay, I can't steal, but they don't care if I'm high... sooooooo...." and he goes and shoots up heroine on the street and dies...

Well, it's unlikely that it will happen in that manner, but you get my point.

What is a conditional discharge. And how long before this is off my youth record. Will it show up on a police check. They are giving me a discharge with conditions, counselling etc.

We are from canada; will he be able to travel to the us with this youth record.

My son will plead guilty to theft under 5000 and they will give him a summary conviction. He is 17. Can he still travel to the united states?

Will you please give your problem a break, ceilingtile. You were told you can't post like this.

No, I don't think he can travel to the states, he will have to do either probation or community service and has to be WHERE YOU LIVE TO ACCOMPLISH THIS TASK.

18 year old charged with possession under 5000 for purpose of trafficking and breach of probation. Is he looking at jail. This is in ontario

Hello c:

I would think not. You folks ARE much more enlightened than we are about such things. But, there's really no way to tell.

excon

Yes or no, it could, was there past convictions, they need a better attorney, how good is the evidence against them

He received 2 conditional discharges and 15 months probation for the last charges

Tell him to pack a toothpaste - he's going away.

Yes if he had past charges, then this is not a first offense and he stands a much better chance to go to prison, for at least a few months

The last charges were not drug related and he was under 18 for them

I still think he should pack his toothbrush - he obviously learned nothing from his past transgressions.

The other concern is that he is on probation and not just facing one charge. Canada seems more lenient,eventually stuff is going to catch up w. him if he keeps on screwing up,he might be looking at a few months like the op said. It's not a huge amount of weed,he not a drug kingpin. It does look like he is trying to sell it.

My son, who was already on 15 months probation for theft under(in canada) just got charged for possession of marijuana with intent to sell. After 3 days in the detention centre we bailed him out and I am his surety on the condition that he will seek treatment. I have found a place that will probably take him in early April for one year. His first court date is Feb 25. He has no lawyer and does not qualify for legal aide. He doesn't want to pay for a lawyer and we don't want to pay for one either. He deserves whatever punishement he gets. The treatment place however says they do not take court ordered. Maybe we can convice them to put case on hold for a year while he takes treatment. Would that be advisable or would he still be faci;ng jail time. He agreed to the treatment cause He wanted to be bailed out and is afraid of jail. He is now 18
'

My son was arrested about 5 months ago with possession of marijuana with intent to sell. We still haven't received disclosure from the crown's office. How long does this take?

Has his attorney checked with their office ?

Attorney has checked and received partial disclosure and when we called her they said they would call when they get full disclosure to set up a meeting but it's already been 5 months!!

Hello c:

The longer it takes the better it is for your son. Relax and count your blessings.

excon

Okay thanks I will try to relax!

My son was charged 6 months ago and every time the case is remanded. ARe there any letters we could get for the judge to show that he has changed and wants to better his life and would this help in his favor. Also he has applied and been accepted into a 3 year college program. Will this help him at all?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ceilingtile

will this help him at all?

---

Hello c:

NO. Communicate ONLY with his lawyer... IF he's tried, and IF he's convicted, THAT'S the time to tell the judge how great he is. Until then, the only thing he judge cares about is his GUILT.

excon

my teen son has been arrested 3x in the last year. Left home cause he didn't like the rules - doesn't accept no - will not listen to us or any authority. So he got in trouble with the law and most recently while he was 18 got caught with marijuana with intent to sell. He doesn't seem to be able to think through his choices - goes all crazy when he is given a no- is going to do what he wants to do - when he wants to do it. Has had 4 traffic tickets already. Very impulsive. Friendly but doesn't listen to us... I think he has adhd - never worked up to his potential in school as school was "boring" He craves excitement and will take any "dare" without thinking of consequences. I am worried about him and don't really know how to help him... it is painful to watch

What have you done until now to discipling him, teach him right from wrong, help him control these impulses? What did you do when he was a child?

At 18 it may very well be too late for you to change him unless he wants to change.

You have posted several conflicting threads about this boy - what is the true situation? Here is one - https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/crimin...ng-477699.html