Thank you. I know the parents of two that were shot but they will be okay. I know the parents of one who escaped AND didn't call his parents until noon on Sunday. I worry for his safety. His parents are not happy with him. I don't know any of the dead although I play jai alai with someone that works with the 22 year old Universal boy.

I didn't write this expecting a gun debate. I wrote this because I was angry and wanted to express myself. The FBI failed Orlando, failed in the deaths of 49 people, and failed in us feeling safe. And this jerk was a coward in his surprise attack on innocent people. I told a very good friend on here today that he might have expressed his alliance with ISIS, but when probably 80 bullets took his like, he met God.

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Originally Posted by Catsmine

It's the gun's fault. It's the NRA's fault. It's the FBI's fault. I haven't seen on this thread that it's Mohammed's fault but Smoothy hasn't posted yet. I thought about posting that it's the fault of gun-free zones. This one, like most other crimes, is the fault of the irresponsible person who committed the crime.

If we stopped giving out participation trophies and started teaching our kids responsibility there would be fewer of these crimes.

Oliver, I truly hope none of your friends were there Saturday.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

How many rounds were in his magazine?

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You READ a magazine and load ammunition in a CLIP. If you want to sound knowledgeable about firearms at least use the proper terminology.

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Originally Posted by J_9

You READ a magazine and load ammunition in a CLIP. If you want to sound knowledgeable about firearms at least use the proper terminology.

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A detachable magazine is often referred to as a clip.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

A detachable magazine is often referred to as a clip.

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Technically incorrect. A clip holds the ammunition, it doesn't feed it to the charging ramp. An M1 uses a clip, it flies out on the last round, pushed out by the follower which is part of the rifle, and a new clip is loaded from the top. Look up" M1 thumb" A magazine holds and feeds the ammunition, the follower is inside the magazine and magazines are replaced from the bottom.

You know, sometimes it is better to dodge a question than to maybe say something that may prove that the person does not know what they are saying. As for my hunting, I have done my share of it. Also joking around seems to be verboten on here so I will just shut my pie hole and move on without offending anyone. See ya's around.

WG, I appreciate your attempt at firearms knowledge. How many firearms do you own? I currently have over 100 in my home of all shapes, sizes, and calibers. It helps that my husband is a master gunsmith though.

The actual issue here isn't gun control. We have plenty of that. The issue is enforcing the laws already on the books. The issue is that we have become a country of political correctness. Heaven forbid if offend someone! This country is populated by weak wimpy wussies. Rather than punishing law abiding citizens with more gun control, it's time to take our country back and work on getting the illegal guns off the streets.

Chicago has some of the stiffest gun control laws in the country, but has one of the highest crime rates. Why is that? It's because criminals and terrorists don't abide by the laws like you and I do.

It's time to take this country back.

That's part of the problem. What good are stiff gun laws when you can go get a gun where the laws are NOT stiff at all?

Who are we taking the country back from?

It's also been reported that the Orlando shooter frequented the bar he shot up, and is tied to several gay dating sights.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Who are we taking the country back from?

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. We are taking the country back from the criminals and thugs who rule our cities. We are taking our country back from the religious extremists, particularly radical Muslims.

Back to when the KKK and Christian extremists ruled our cities?

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Back to when the KKK and Christian extremists ruled our cities?

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Was the crime rate the same then as it is today? No. While I am against the KKK and the Christian extremists, specifically Wesboro Baptist Church, life was much safer than it is today.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Back to when the KKK and Christian extremists ruled our cities?

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Back to when we overtook the Sioux Indians?

Seriously, we are a country in turmoil. We can't go back in history to correct what is happening today.

This is the problem, no one can even agree on the real problem. Everyone keeps looking at the gun. That gun, on a shelf, in a gun safe, or in the hands of a responsible owner never does anything wrong.

The issue is the ISIS and the terrorist, and it is just going to get worst and worst in America. They have been lucky so far but it only takes a few to act and America will learn a new level of terror.

It is not the guns, I live in China, no guns here for over 60 years unless you are police and military. (see how well that worked for the common people, who have no way to revolt if they even wanted to now.

But we have terror attacks all the time, with machete (sword like) knives, lots of bombs and more. There are attacks at schools, attacks at subway stations, airports and so on.

And even here, some of the terrorist groups have guns, just smuggled in. We can not control illegal people from mexico, or drugs (that are illegal) how do you think we would ever stop illegal guns.

I can take a plumbing product and a auto product and make a very nice bomb. Propane tanks make bombs and so on.

The issue is dealing with the terrorists, but America will not even admit they are terrorist.

'This was a person who was twice looked at by the FBI and had a history of mental illness.'

The FBI looks at countless suspicious people and drops many of the investigations, given how many are 'turned in' by casual observers or people with a grudge (so I see on various interviews on TV with FBI agents).
Thus they aren't going to have a special list for those who they want to not be allowed to buy guns, especially considering that this shooter was born in the US and has all the rights the rest of us do. As for the history of mental illness - who says? His ex wife and a few others? That proves nothing, until you come up with some interaction with mental health treatment, or an arrest that involved a mental health check.

It is SO EASY to second guess when we look back. The FBI did investigate him for quite a while, including following him. He didn't DO anything. He was all over the place in his ideology or lack of it, such as saying he wished the cops would break in so he could defend his wife. He wasn't religious and didn't even get knowledge about
different factions right.

I suspect that he was mostly a screwed up, rejected, lonely man, who got worse as more people associated his personality with his religion and background, making him lonelier and angrier. He could have gone in any direction. Oh, and the FBI highly doubts that the ISIS claim to the attack is genuine. It doesn't fit, including how long it took them to say so.

I see no need for AR15s and their ilk. Gun experts tell me that's not meaningful because there are rapid fire handguns. I don't know about the Glock 17 he had. We need more gun savvy politicians who can go against all the technical differences.

Let's forget the religion, or motives of this nutcase, and consider that in Florida the wait time for buying this rifle is 0 days and has been used in 14 mass killing sprees to date. Ban the sucker, and its extended size clips.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15

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Standard issue magazines are 20- or 30-round staggered-column magazines and traditional box magazines exist in 40- and 45-round capacities. Drum magazines with 90- and 100-round capacities, such as Beta C-Mags are available, as well. Low-capacity magazines, usually of a 5- or 10-round capacity, are available to comply with some areas' legal restrictions, forhunting, and for benchrest shooting, where a larger magazine can be inconvenient. Surefire is now offering extended capacity magazines in 60- and 100-round capacity configurations. These are of a staggered column design, dubbed casket magazines due to their shape.

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AND,

Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence – Gun Law Information Experts

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There is no federal waiting period. As described below, federal law allows a dealer to deliver a firearm to a purchaser as soon as a background check is completed, or after three business days even if a background check has not been completed. Each year, over 3,000 ineligible persons receive firearms through this default provision.

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I feel your pain Oliver, and share your anger, but it started for me long before this latest shooting, and grows after common sense reasonable solutions are still being ignored or worse actively being stopped from starting no matter how many loved ones, and relatives are MURDERED!!

Federal vs states is at the crux of the legal aspect of this.

I just find it unfathomable that as a society and a world we are not getting better at all of this. That I have to teach my teenagers to always know where an exit is and to watch what is happening especially if you are at a place where there could be many casualties. I grew up and was taught to accept everyone and in the south that is not easy to do. I can’t imagine the pain of a parent whose son is texting that he’s going to die, that the shooter has him. Or the pain of the woman trying to find out information on her son and not knowing for 24 hours. I remember not locking the front door or my car and having the garage door up. Two partners were gunned down because they wanted to share their life together.

AND NOW there are reports that this creep might have been gay. He had a gay app on his phone and had been to gay clubs numerous times. Let’s hear ISIS support him now. This has got to stop. What a cowardly act to ambush innocent people. His father must be very proud. I have been raising kids my entire adult life and I am very proud that my boys have never hurt anyone and would never do so. I am just angry at the moment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Let's forget the religion, or motives of this nutcase, and consider that in Florida the wait time for buying this rifle is 0 days and has been used in 14 mass killing sprees to date. Ban the sucker, and its extended size clips.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15



AND,

Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence – Gun Law Information Experts



I feel your pain Oliver, and share your anger, but it started for me long before this latest shooting, and grows after common sense reasonable solutions are still being ignored or worse actively being stopped from starting no matter how many loved ones, and relatives are MURDERED!!

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Sadly the violence won't end as there always have been, and always will be, humans who feel that basically it's their way or the highway. This both encourages such acts, and prohibits action to prevent them.

Some will use an often warped interpretation of their religion as justification for their hatred, some will use personal experiences, jealousy, and vengefulness for their hate, some will be prompted by their own self-loathing. Many have interpersonal relationship issues, mental health issues, or are just plain evil. The acquisition of power/control is frequently a major player.

Unfortunately, these situations increase as society and families break-down.

Hopefully, with some careful consideration, and learning from previous mistakes, the America government, and the world when it comes to terrorism, will put differences/egos aside to come together to determine ways to, at the very least, lessen the number of such incidents... and soon. Too many cooks in the kitchen seem to prevent any real action.

Treating others as you would like to be treated, so simple, yet so foreign to many...

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Originally Posted by Oliver2011

AND NOW there are reports that this creep might have been gay. He had a gay app on his phone and had been to gay clubs numerous times.

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I wouldn't put too much stock in this as to me it seems this guy was calculating his moves to create the greatest impact he could. He also according to phone gps triangulation records visited Disneyland and other places where families hang out.

I believe he was looking for maximum impact and nothing else.

"Treating others as you would like to be treated, so simple, yet so foreign to many..."

Exactly. The society train is off the tracks.

So excited. I work at the same company as my spouse who made me very happy about an hour ago. Friday night is Orlando Pride night at the Tampa Rays game. We are going and we are taking the boys. All of the proceeds are going to the victim. Our Orlando Pride shirts are being delivered tomorrow. That was really cool and I can’t wait.

All of the people that I speak to are having the same difficult time moving past this horrible week that I am. Is that because it’s too soon? Or maybe it’s because Orlando has had three significant events in less than 5 days? Is it because most of us don’t know evil? I don’t know. Writing about it helps. The President’s visit and remarks help. I had to leave work at 3 yesterday so not to get caught in the highway blockage for when he went back to the airport. We live very close to the airport and about 4 years ago I was sitting on the highway for an hour when he was here.

I read about Sandy Hook and San Bernardino shootings but those were far from Orlando. I will never read any future reports about a mass shooting like that again. Sadly I typed that sentence and sadly we know there will be future episodes. I am usually a happy go lucky not a care in the world type of person. But this week has been tough. I just feel so badly for those kids and their families. This shouldn’t have happened. There are good stories as a result of this horrible event. Our Medical Examiner honored the victims by refusing to allow the body of that horrible evil man to be in the same room as the victims.

Today is the Orlando Pride baseball game between Tampa and San Fran. I hear it is sold out. All six of us going will be in these shirts:

https://www.google.com/search?q=orla...a0w191BxYdM%3A

It could be the first time an indoor game is rained out with all the tears that will be flowing.

Then Sunday we are going as a family to the make shift memorial downtown.

I hope these things help heal us.

I've no doubt that it will be helpful in the healing process. It should be an amazing event (I should have gotten tickets through work when I had the chance); the tribute planned will be bittersweet. I hope you and your friends find some peace and comfort.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Why does someone need to own an assault rifle?

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Why do the police need automatic weapons and armoured personnel carriers?

We have a 2nd Amendment right to have arms to protect us from an out of control government, and ours inches closer to that every day.

Ever notice all these mass shootings were in gun free zones... that meant the gunman had free reign to do his will before police could be called and have time to arrive.

If anything, this proves why gun free zones are a bad idea and why more people should have concealed carry permits.

If even one or two people there did and were armed, There would have been significantly fewer victims.

Damned autocorrect on these mobile devices, on one in Europe right now.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Then I'll be specific. Why does someone need to own an AR-15 or an AK-47?

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Let me chime in here, J_9 knows the answer to this and probibly even catonsville too.
An AR-15 is a .223 caliber rifle, or 5,56 mm it's not that big a bullet, it's also a semi automatic like many shotguns and other sporting riflesmare. The military uses a M-16 which is a elect firemweapon, three round bursts or fully automatic, it's also a Class 3 firearm and significantly more difficult to purchase and license, Yes a class 3 weapon is handled very differently, and having watched the news, most if not all reporters are idiots that don't know the difference between a B-B gun and a Howitzer.

And an AK-47 DESPITE all the claims by equally clueless people is a Class 3 firearm as the semiautomatic version carries a different name. They are not common or everywhere and just anyone can not walk in and buy one.

It is a 7.62x39 round.

And why do the police need them, why do they need armoured personnel carriers? What illegal act are they preparing for?

Look at Chicagos crime statistics as proof of how worthless banning guns are, only the criminals are armed, and everyone else is defenseless.

The police protect nobody, they nearly always show up after everything is over. You are responsible for your own protection.

With respect to Oliver I think that if we want to discuss weapons and their applications we might want to start a thread on the gun board. I don't believe it was the intent of the OP to start a thread on gun debate and virtues. This thread is more about feelings and perceptions.

What a weekend. The Tampa Rays game tribute to Orlando was incredibly moving. The Rays wore old Orlando Rays baseball caps for the whole game. That was their farm team from 1999-2003. Everyone got a “We Are Orlando” shirt. And the whole crowd was very respectful during the moment of silence as the scoreboard went through the names of the victims.

At the Orlando City soccer game Saturday night, both teams paused at the 49 minute mark to honor the victims. I heard there were many tributes at that game.

Sunday as a family we went to the makeshift memorial which is about a mile from the Pulse nightclub downtown. Each of us laid a white rose and paid our respects. It was at the memorial that I realized Adam and I knew one of the people killed. The press had been reporting his name as Peter O. Gonzalez-Cruz. He was 22. Adam and I get our mail delivered at our local UPS store and Peter was our guy. He goes by Peter Ommy and I didn't realize it was him until I saw his face downtown at the memorial. Peter always knew your name and was just the friendliest guy. I have his business card in my wallet even today.

There are just so many good stories to come out of this. I encourage you to read about the Grandmother who came down to bury her grandson and she flew down on JetBlue. Also read about the mother who was at the club with her son dancing. She threw herself in front of her son when the gunman opened fire. Her son survived. She did not. That selfless act got her a free ticket to heaven I am sure.

The outpouring of support from all over the country, and indeed the world is a very hopeful sign and maybe, just maybe our lawmakers can at least start to address the issues the PEOPLE care about in regards to such traumatic events that have plagued us ALL, for far too long.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

And why do the police need them, why do they need armoured personnel carriers? What illegal act are they preparing for?

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One of the main arguments of the gun lobby is that laws only inhibit law abiding citizens from getting guns, that criminals can get the weapons. So if you take that argument, it explains why LEOs feel they need to be armed against such weaponry.

As I've said before, the only purpose of such weapons is to be able to indiscriminately fire a hail of bullets at a fast pace.

The outpouring of support from all over has been incredible and helped with the healing. I can't tell you how good it feels to see people from Australia and many parts of the world holding up signs that say “We Are Orlando”. This event will not define Orlando. The aftermath of goodness from the first responders, to the hospitals keeping no more from dying, to the people on that JetBlue flight, to baseball and soccer games, to the Chick-fila's opening on a Sunday, to the 50,000 who went to the vigil downtown last night, and so many more acts of kindness will define Orlando.

I didn't write the original post to turn on a debate about guns. There's a time and a place for that. I wrote it because of the anger I was feeling towards that horrible cowardly pathetic excuse of a man. I wrote it because I was hurt and my city was hurt. When we went through the three hurricanes in 2004 we all in Orlando were in pretty bad moods. But it was nothing like this. I haven't seen this town so down since September 11, 2001. I wrote to help make sense of someone ambushing unsuspecting people. Adam and I are a part of the LGBT community although we don't practice anything that is related. We are just normal people raising a semi-normal family. No group should ever be ambushed.

I am feeling and will feel better. Some people won't, I get that. Some people will struggle with what happened to them forever, and that is sad. Others in other towns will be ambushed and that is very sad to me. I don't care which God you pray to because it is your choice to pray to whatever God. But there is not a viable God that would promote hate and violence that Orlando saw just 8 days ago. I think the plane hijackers were educated on that as soon as they crashed those planes. I also know Omar Mateen met God last Sunday morning and I'm quite sure that didn't go well for him.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by talaniman

The outpouring of support from all over the country, and indeed the world is a very hopeful sign and maybe, just maybe our lawmakers can at least start to address the issues the PEOPLE care about in regards to such traumatic events that have plagued us ALL, for far too long.

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