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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Maybe.

Why couldn't the FBI restrict Omar from buying guns?

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Well, good question. We have freedoms in this country and unless he had done something that he could have been arrested for, they have no cause to
Keep him from buying a gun just like I can. Now, if the government wants to tighten up the law and say anyone with blue eyes cannot buy a gun, that is a problem. Suppose, the government would pass a law that said anyone who was not born in the USA nor his offspring could buy a gun. You can go on and on with all kinds of laws to keep certain people from buying guns as long as you stay within the Constitution and satisfy the Supreme Court.

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Originally Posted by catonsville

Well, good question. We have freedoms in this country and unless he had done something that he could have been arrested for, they have no cause to
Keep him from buying a gun just like I can. Now, if the government wants to tighten up the law and say anyone with blue eyes cannot buy a gun, that is a problem. Suppose, the government would pass a law that said anyone who was not born in the USA nor his offspring could buy a gun. You can go on and on with all kinds of laws to keep certain people from buying guns.

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And yet, Omar was "a person of interest." He had been doing and saying things that made people, even the FBI and his own father, sit up and take notice. But, gosh darn, Omar had the right to buy guns, especially a very cool AR-15.

Yep, the FBI had 2 investigations on him and closed them out. We have a "No Fly List" why not a "No Buy List"? We have background investigation, we have a waiting period of 7 days so why not a "No Buy List"?

Are we just going to discuss this from a guns standpoint or are we going to judge it from the point of right and wrong? To me owning guns is not wrong but rather a choice. Unless handled improperly they don't shoot people on their own. What this person did is beyond words for description. From a right and wrong standpoint it was absolutely wrong.

How do we fix it? That is another pandoras box to be opened. Can we stop all hate ? That is more of a dream then a likelihood. Our best defense against these types of situations is for community monitoring. We can not expect our government to be around the corner 24/7. It just doesn't and shouldn't work that way.

Being aware can help the situation. Did anyone hear that he was denied the purchase of a plated vest ? I'm sure there will be many things that are going to come out of this as the days pass. But one thing for sure. We need to figure out the lines between right and wrong and start drawing red lines so we can maintain balance in our society.



And to OP: Oliver my condolences to your community. I can not imagine how you must feel.

OK, lets try to put this in perspective. Looking at the Sandy Hook shooter. He came out of nowhere. There were no real indications of him going off the deep end. Plus he used legal weapons owned by his mother. From everything I've read there was little or nothing that could have predicted his actions. Next lets look at the Husband and wife in LA. In their case there were some clues, that might have given a clue, but nothing really overt. But now we turn to the latest incident. Here there were plentiful indications that this person had connections with radicals, had issues with mental illness. At the very least his application to purchase should have raised flags. At the most his application should have been denied. As far as I have read the weapon was bought only a few days ago! How much of a background check could have been done?

As cdad said we need to find a balance. But we will never find such a balance as long as the NRA has a knee jerk reaction and fights ANY and EVERY attempt at reasonable regulation.

Thank you. I haven't had these same feelings since 2001 I don't believe. I wouldn't wish this on any community. Central Florida really knows how to make the news with Casey Anthony, George Zimmerman, and now this. This senseless act just seems beyond hate. One of the kids killed got his Universal Studios job because he was so into Harry Potter. He worked the Harry Potter ride. Yesterday they closed the ride out of respect for him. You should have seen the lines to give blood yesterday and today. This is the community that I know and love. The happiest place on earth will be once again.

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Originally Posted by cdad

Are we just going to discuss this from a guns standpoint or are we going to judge it from the point of right and wrong? To me owning guns is not wrong but rather a choice. Unless handled improperly they don't shoot people on their own. What this person did is beyond words for description. From a right and wrong standpoint it was absolutely wrong.

How do we fix it? That is another pandoras box to be opened. Can we stop all hate ? That is more of a dream then a likelihood. Our best defense against these types of situations is for community monitoring. We can not expect our government to be around the corner 24/7. It just doesn't and shouldn't work that way.

Being aware can help the situation. Did anyone hear that he was denied the purchase of a plated vest ? I'm sure there will be many things that are going to come out of this as the days pass. But one thing for sure. We need to figure out the lines between right and wrong and start drawing red lines so we can maintain balance in our society.



And to OP: Oliver my condolences to your community. I can not imagine how you must feel.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

And who needs an AR-15? It's not useful for hunting (there'll be nothing left of the animal) or for self defense; it's a people-killing machine.

I wept again as I read this morning's newspapers and watched the current TV reports. My heart is breaking. Young school children, Christians gathering in church, theatergoers, people at work, high school and college students, a nightcub packed with gays -- what next? No one is safe.

Omar Mateen followed all the rules for obtaining and registering his guns. He'd even been looked at more than once by the FBI. Yet he was a loose screw with a background of wife beating and instability. So who can we trust with guns? Whom do we allow to have guns?

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Why would there" be nothing left....." In some States you can't use it for hunting because they believe the .223 caliber is too SMALL.. If it's a "people killing machine" seems like a good reason for self defense. Have you ever fired one? Sorry to pick at you but statements like those you made are reactive.

Sometimes on here I get the feeling that some are good at talking over, walking over or what ever when they don't agree with what you say or think. I repeat what is wrong with a "No Buy List", you sure as hell would have thought that after 2 Investigations, the FBI would have done something to stop that guy from getting a gun? DUH.

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Originally Posted by ma0641

Why would there" be nothing left....." In some States you can't use it for hunting because they believe the .223 caliber is too SMALL.. If it's a "people killing machine" seems like a good reason for self defense. Have you ever fired one? Sorry to pick at you but statements like those you made are reactive.

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You are 100% correct, it is considered to light for hunting.

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Originally Posted by ma0641

Why would there" be nothing left....." In some States you can't use it for hunting because they believe the .223 caliber is too SMALL.. If it's a "people killing machine" seems like a good reason for self defense. Have you ever fired one? Sorry to pick at you but statements like those you made are reactive.

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Yes, I have fired one. Omar did an outstanding job making history with that small caliber rifle. How many AR-15s are needed and used for self defense each month?

There is a great misconception about an AR. It doesn't stand for Assault Rifle, it stands for Armalite Research, the designer. It is a semi automatic rifle. What makes this so much more horrible than a WWII M1 or, the rifle I carried in the service, an M14? In actuality, either of these 2 are much more likely to cause extensive body damage but work the same as an AR15. Military snipers don't use an AR because, it is not a " killing machine ". There is no difference in hunting with a bolt action, single shot or semi auto. In fact, a semi auto maybe a better choice for older people. I personally use a 243 bolt action because it is actually more powerful than a semi auto of the samecaliber and more powerful than a 223, the standard AR round. The primary reason the AR was chosen for military use is that soldiers were having difficulty carrying the much higher caliber bullet and, most combat firing was close range, not at long distance.
Horrible tragedy but let's not forget WHO allowed this person to do the damage he did. Florida for giving him a carry permit after knowing there were questions, the FBI for being smooth talked and the police for waiting 3 hours to do something. From my understanding on the news, the company he worked for was informed of some of his ideologic thinking and didn't want to say anything BECAUSE he was a Muslim! Great political correctness my have caused many of these casualties.

See how people jump to the conclusion that AR stands for Assault Rifle. Like I have said, the Media and Government are very good at labeling or should I say Mis-labeling.

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Originally Posted by catonsville

See how people jump to the conclusion that AR stands for Assault Rifle. Like I have said, the Media and Government are very good at labeling or should I say Mis-labeling.

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I have never heard or read that, that AR stands for assault rifle. Semi-automatic version of the AR-15 = assault capability.

What ever read post #31

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Originally Posted by catonsville

What ever read post #31

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A semiautomatic spits out 1-3 rounds a second. To me, that's an assault. How many rounds were in his magazine? How often did he reload?

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

A semiautomatic spits out 1-3 rounds a second. To me, that's an assault. How many rounds were in his magazine? How often did he reload?

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I think you need to relook at the real definition of semi-auto. It is 1 pull of the trigger and 1 shot per pull. By your definition most guns today would fit into the assault class. Modern well fitted bolt actions can spit 3 rounds in a second.

It's the gun's fault. It's the NRA's fault. It's the FBI's fault. I haven't seen on this thread that it's Mohammed's fault but Smoothy hasn't posted yet. I thought about posting that it's the fault of gun-free zones. This one, like most other crimes, is the fault of the irresponsible person who committed the crime.

If we stopped giving out participation trophies and started teaching our kids responsibility there would be fewer of these crimes.

Oliver, I truly hope none of your friends were there Saturday.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

A semiautomatic spits out 1-3 rounds a second. To me, that's an assault. How many rounds were in his magazine? How often did he reload?

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I have a semi auto 22 caliber rifle, a Ruger 10/22. It too can shoot 3 rounds per second. Is it an assault rifle? One of the things you are taught in an Active Shooter class is timing. In order to reload ANYsemi auto rifle, you have to unshoulder the weapon, release the empty magazine, get the filled magazine, insert it into the weapon and the cycle the first round. Time enough to do something concrete. Look at Sandy Hook. They told the children to hide under the desk,no one th ought to lock the door and they sat there even though they had a door to the outside. Look up an Active Shooter class near you, it may save your life!

Anyone shooting at me (and my friends) with 1-3 rounds a second is assaulting us.

Ah, the never ending gun debate again.

Why even bother to post? Those that want to have guns and fight to have guns, also fight for those that want to have guns and want to cause mass chaos and death with those guns. Those be the facts. You can't have it both ways. Either there's no guns to anyone, or guns to everyone, which means that bad people will get guns and do bad things, over and over and over and over and over and... well, it's never ending. The next mass shooting is just around the corner, and the US knows it. They're the mass murder capital of the world!

The US is messed up when it comes to guns and gun control. Americans don't want gun control, they want to sit back and think pretty thoughts about guns not being the problem. They post memes about guns not killing people but people killing people. Sadly, in the US, the people killing people, they have guns. But having guns are their right! So be it. Their rights are going to be the death of them all.

It's a losing battle. Most of the world has figured this out. Most of the world has major gun control laws. Those parts of the world rarely, if ever, deal with mass shootings, and all this other crap. Americans can't seem to get on board, and they don't want to. They want their guns, so let them have their guns, and let them deal with the consequences. I love my American friends, but frankly, at this point, I'm with the rest of the world. Let them have their rights, and when they finally kill themselves off, the rest of the world can set things right.

I for one am sick of trying to make them see a better way. They won't see it. They won't give up their guns. So let them all kill each other if that's what they want, which sadly, seems to be exactly what they want. :(

So done with this fight. You can only preach reason to a stone for so long before you realize the stone won't listen.

No amount of reason or facts will make them see that guns are the problem. So let them have their guns. No problem. Just don't try to bring them to my country!