Orlando, the City Beautiful, peaceful evening was shattered yesterday morning while we got smack in the gut by hate. If you live here you knew what was going on just minutes after it started. We spent the night and yesterday checking on loved ones and friends. 104 people went out to enjoy a nice weekend in Orlando, one was killed Friday night, 50 were killed yesterday, and 53 plus countless others are in some stage of healing, pain, or whatever. Another senseless act of violence by a deranged hateful jerk. I have no problems with people owning guns. I have a problem with the wrong people having access to guns. This is my hometown where I was raised not far from Pulse and where I chose to raise my kids. My high school is less than 5 minutes away from Pulse. The hospital that most were taken to was where I was born not 0.2 miles away from Pulse. Pulse used to be a Italian restaurant called Lorenzo's and wow did they have good pizza.

I don't want every baseball game to have moment of silence with the word "ORLANDO" on the jumbotron. I don't want the Tony's to dedicate their show to Orlando. I want the hate to stop and I want people to be tolerant. But yesterday I still had a son celebrating his 13th birthday so with a very heavy heart we still had to celebrate. I was very proud he chose after dinner to go to the candlelight vigil downtown at our Lake Eola.

I want the Federal Government to find these radical hate-filled people and keep them from having guns. We have to do better.

I call on parents to teach their kids how to love and be more tolerant.

The shooter's dad apologized yesterday. Not good enough, not from where I sit in my hometown. It's just a sad day in Orlando.

How do you keep them from having guns? Responsible owners follow the proper channels. Terrorists, not so much.

When I asked my gun, I have many, she didn't respond. Why? Because she is an inanimate object that has no power until I put her in my hands.

We need to stop blaming the gun, and start blaming the human holding it. Bring back stringent mental health care, vet our immigrants better.

Stop op blaming the gun, start blaming our government.

And who needs an AR-15? It's not useful for hunting (there'll be nothing left of the animal) or for self defense; it's a people-killing machine.

I wept again as I read this morning's newspapers and watched the current TV reports. My heart is breaking. Young school children, Christians gathering in church, theatergoers, people at work, high school and college students, a nightcub packed with gays -- what next? No one is safe.

Omar Mateen followed all the rules for obtaining and registering his guns. He'd even been looked at more than once by the FBI. Yet he was a loose screw with a background of wife beating and instability. So who can we trust with guns? Whom do we allow to have guns?

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

And who needs an AR-15? It's not useful for hunting (there'll be nothing left of the animal) or for self defense; it's a people-killing machine.

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Have you ever been hunted by a grizzly bear while pregnant? I have, while living and camping in Alaska. My 22 year old daughter is alive today because I knew how to use a 7.65x39.

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Originally Posted by J_9

Have you ever been hunted by a grizzly bear while pregnant? I have, while living and camping in Alaska. My 22 year old daughter is alive today because I knew how to use a 7.65x39.

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I can appreciate that but how many gunowners need an AR-15 to protect their daughter from a grizzly. You were in a very unique situation.

I have to agree with WonderGirl here. This was a person who was twice looked at by the FBI and had a history of mental illness. Yet he was able to legally obtain assault rifles without raising a flag somewhere! How did such a person pass a background check? I don't know the exact answer because I don't know what was required to obtain those guns. But whatever it was was not adequate. And that's the problem. Many states make it too easy to obtain any weapon, let alone a people killer like these weapons.

Of course its not the gun's fault. But maybe if we make it harder for a person like this to get such weapons, he doesn't go on such a spree. Of course there is the possibility that he then tries to obtain the weapons illegally, or use a different methodology. We can't know the answer, but we have to make it more difficult to obtain such weapons.

The NRA is partially to blame here. If the NRA would work towards reasonable and meaningful laws to try and prevent this type of tragedy while protecting the rights of law abiding citizens to own guns, it would help. But instead the NRA's reaction is to resist ANY attempt at regulation rather then working for regulation that everyone can live with.

When will the violence end? Never, is my guess. It is part of the price we pay for a relatively free society. The only way the violence will completely end is in a closed totalitarian society. But we can and should be doing more.

The more years I live, the more it seems we are headed for the days of Revelations. Nobody deserved this or what happened at the AME church in South Carolina, or the school in Sandy Hook. I just want my friends, family, and hometown to be safe. And that wasn't the case this weekend.

Some people make me sick. Why don't the gun owners all turn in their guns and place a sigh on their lawn "Gun Free" Zone. See how that would work. Guns are not the problem, people are. How many AR-15's are there in the United States? I have no idea how many but I would be willing to bet that 99.9% of them are not out killing people. We already have gun control, background investigations and what ever the hell else that is required to buy a Gun. We need people control period. How many guns in Baltimore, New York City, Chicago, and every other big city carried by criminals are registered and legal, try none? Don't blame it on the NRA either, I don't know any criminal who belong to the NRA. You want to blame someone blame Trump NOT.

Why does someone need to own an assault rifle?

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Why does someone need to own an assault rifle?

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Apparently you don't know much about hunting. Just because the government or the media has the freedom to assign whatever label to things it feels like, that does not make it so. All Rifles are not Assault Rifles, just those that the Media likes to throw around to get big headlines.

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Originally Posted by catonsville

Apparently you don't know much about hunting. Just because the government or the media has the freedom to assign whatever label to things it feel like, that does not make it so. All Rifles are not Assault Rifles, just those that the Media likes to throw around to get big headlines.

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Then I'll be specific. Why does someone need to own an AR-15 or an AK-47?

Terrorist intent aside, which obviously needs to be dealt with in a more proactive manner, as J_9 said, the mental health situation in America is truly irresponsible. Bring back "institutions" in the sense where people can receive help who need it, have a home off the streets, be monitored as necessary, and the rest of society will have fewer incidents related to mental health concerns.

Certainly more needs to be done with the known thugs/criminals running around with guns. Of course it would mean more young men (for the most part) in prisons and that would cause some to protest. In some situations, a location similar to a half-way house might be more advantageous. Remove them from their dismal environment. Give them something more to strive for.

More needs to be done with guns being brought into the country illegally as well. Cut off the demand and the supply lines. Guns have always been in existence in America; in some locations the majority of the residents have guns without any issues. The variables are upbringing and opportunities.

Some changes do make sense; there should be background checks/waiting periods at gun shows and such, but also have more uniform enforcement of the laws already present.

You won't get real change without dealing with the root of the problem, whether due to mental health concerns, illegal guns, drugs, or terrorism, and the politicians/government don't want to go there, so they push for band-aids instead.

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Originally Posted by DoulaLC

Terrorist intent aside, which obviously needs to be dealt with in a more proactive manner, as J_9 said, the mental health situation in America is truly irresponsible. Bring back "institutions" in the sense where people can receive help who need it, have a home off the streets, be monitored as necessary, and the rest of society will have fewer incidents related to mental health concerns.

Certainly more needs to be done with the known thugs/criminals running around with guns. Of course it would mean more young men (for the most part) in prisons and that would cause some to protest. In some situations, a location similar to a half-way house might be more advantageous. Remove them from their dismal environment. Give them something more to strive for.

More needs to be done with guns being brought into the country illegally as well. Cut off the demand and the supply lines. Guns have always been in existence in America; in some locations the majority of the residents have guns without any issues. The variables are upbringing and opportunities.

Some changes do make sense; there should be background checks/waiting periods at gun shows and such, but also have more uniform enforcement of the laws already present.

You won't get real change without dealing with the root of the problem, whether due to mental health concerns, illegal guns, drugs, or terrorism, and the politicians/government don't want to go there, so they push for band-aids instead.

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I give you an A+

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Then I'll be specific. Why does someone need to own an AR-15 or an AK-47?

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Come on. When I roll over in bed all alone and I feel the cold steel barrell against my leg, I feel safe. Yeah, ridiculous I know.

PS My weapon of choice is the "Slingshot" with steel ball bearings.

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Originally Posted by catonsville

Come on. When I roll over in bed all alone and I feel the cold steel barrell against my leg, I feel safe. Yeah, ridiculous I know.

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The 2nd Amendment was written with muskets in mind. They could get off maybe four inaccurate shots per minute. Trade you a musket to sleep with instead of your "cold steel barrell."

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

The 2nd Amendment was written with muskets in mind. They could get off maybe four inaccurate shots per minute. Trade you a musket to sleep with instead of your "cold steel barrell."

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I DON'T own an AR-15 nor do I desire one but I still want the right to own one, if I change my mind. How about my slingshot for your musket?

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Originally Posted by catonsville

I DON'T own an AR-15 nor do I desire one but I still want the right to own one if I change my mind. How about my slingshot for your musket?

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Naw. I need my musket for when the govnment tries to take our guns away.

Doula makes good points, but all the rights' groups we have now wouldn't let it happen.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Naw. I need my musket for when the govnment tries to take our guns away.

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Okay, How about your Fife and Drum?

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Originally Posted by catonsville

Okay, How about your Fife and Drum?

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Maybe.

Why couldn't the FBI restrict Omar from buying guns?

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Originally Posted by catonsville

We already have gun control, background investigations and what ever the hell else that is required to buy a Gun.

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Really? Then explain to me how a person with a history of mental instability, a history of terrorist leanings that caused him to twice be checked by the FBI, how such a person was easily able to obtain a weapon such as the one used?

Yes, I WILL put some of the blame on the NRA because they fight ANY and EVERY type of gun control, no matter how reasonable. Instead of working towards regulation that everyone can live with. If the Orlando shooter had not obtained his weapon legally, then no I wouldn't blame the NRA. But the fact of the matter is, had he used a simple hunting rifle instead of a semi-automatic killing machine, then I doubt if the death toll would have been anywhere near as high.

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Originally Posted by catonsville

I DON'T own an AR-15 nor do I desire one but I still want the right to own one, if I change my mind.

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I notice you keep dodging Wondergirl's question. So when you "feel the cold steel barrell against my leg, I feel safe". But why does that barrel need to be a part of a weapon like the AR-15. I'm sorry, but you are displaying the same knee jerk reaction I spoke of! You want to own guns for the sport of hunting or even for protection then fine. I'm guessing that you can show that is your only reasons for gun ownership and you should be allowed. But can you tell me with complete honesty, that you think the Florida shooter should have been allowed to purchase such a weapon?

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Originally Posted by catonsville

Apparently you don't know much about hunting.

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Apparently YOU don't know much about hunting. I've known a few hunters and none would go into the woods with an AR-15. They hunt for the sport and there is no sport in using a semi-automatic to shoot game.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Maybe.

Why couldn't the FBI restrict Omar from buying guns?

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Well, good question. We have freedoms in this country and unless he had done something that he could have been arrested for, they have no cause to
Keep him from buying a gun just like I can. Now, if the government wants to tighten up the law and say anyone with blue eyes cannot buy a gun, that is a problem. Suppose, the government would pass a law that said anyone who was not born in the USA nor his offspring could buy a gun. You can go on and on with all kinds of laws to keep certain people from buying guns as long as you stay within the Constitution and satisfy the Supreme Court.

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Originally Posted by catonsville

Well, good question. We have freedoms in this country and unless he had done something that he could have been arrested for, they have no cause to
Keep him from buying a gun just like I can. Now, if the government wants to tighten up the law and say anyone with blue eyes cannot buy a gun, that is a problem. Suppose, the government would pass a law that said anyone who was not born in the USA nor his offspring could buy a gun. You can go on and on with all kinds of laws to keep certain people from buying guns.

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And yet, Omar was "a person of interest." He had been doing and saying things that made people, even the FBI and his own father, sit up and take notice. But, gosh darn, Omar had the right to buy guns, especially a very cool AR-15.

Yep, the FBI had 2 investigations on him and closed them out. We have a "No Fly List" why not a "No Buy List"? We have background investigation, we have a waiting period of 7 days so why not a "No Buy List"?

Are we just going to discuss this from a guns standpoint or are we going to judge it from the point of right and wrong? To me owning guns is not wrong but rather a choice. Unless handled improperly they don't shoot people on their own. What this person did is beyond words for description. From a right and wrong standpoint it was absolutely wrong.

How do we fix it? That is another pandoras box to be opened. Can we stop all hate ? That is more of a dream then a likelihood. Our best defense against these types of situations is for community monitoring. We can not expect our government to be around the corner 24/7. It just doesn't and shouldn't work that way.

Being aware can help the situation. Did anyone hear that he was denied the purchase of a plated vest ? I'm sure there will be many things that are going to come out of this as the days pass. But one thing for sure. We need to figure out the lines between right and wrong and start drawing red lines so we can maintain balance in our society.



And to OP: Oliver my condolences to your community. I can not imagine how you must feel.

OK, lets try to put this in perspective. Looking at the Sandy Hook shooter. He came out of nowhere. There were no real indications of him going off the deep end. Plus he used legal weapons owned by his mother. From everything I've read there was little or nothing that could have predicted his actions. Next lets look at the Husband and wife in LA. In their case there were some clues, that might have given a clue, but nothing really overt. But now we turn to the latest incident. Here there were plentiful indications that this person had connections with radicals, had issues with mental illness. At the very least his application to purchase should have raised flags. At the most his application should have been denied. As far as I have read the weapon was bought only a few days ago! How much of a background check could have been done?

As cdad said we need to find a balance. But we will never find such a balance as long as the NRA has a knee jerk reaction and fights ANY and EVERY attempt at reasonable regulation.

Thank you. I haven't had these same feelings since 2001 I don't believe. I wouldn't wish this on any community. Central Florida really knows how to make the news with Casey Anthony, George Zimmerman, and now this. This senseless act just seems beyond hate. One of the kids killed got his Universal Studios job because he was so into Harry Potter. He worked the Harry Potter ride. Yesterday they closed the ride out of respect for him. You should have seen the lines to give blood yesterday and today. This is the community that I know and love. The happiest place on earth will be once again.

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Originally Posted by cdad

Are we just going to discuss this from a guns standpoint or are we going to judge it from the point of right and wrong? To me owning guns is not wrong but rather a choice. Unless handled improperly they don't shoot people on their own. What this person did is beyond words for description. From a right and wrong standpoint it was absolutely wrong.

How do we fix it? That is another pandoras box to be opened. Can we stop all hate ? That is more of a dream then a likelihood. Our best defense against these types of situations is for community monitoring. We can not expect our government to be around the corner 24/7. It just doesn't and shouldn't work that way.

Being aware can help the situation. Did anyone hear that he was denied the purchase of a plated vest ? I'm sure there will be many things that are going to come out of this as the days pass. But one thing for sure. We need to figure out the lines between right and wrong and start drawing red lines so we can maintain balance in our society.



And to OP: Oliver my condolences to your community. I can not imagine how you must feel.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

And who needs an AR-15? It's not useful for hunting (there'll be nothing left of the animal) or for self defense; it's a people-killing machine.

I wept again as I read this morning's newspapers and watched the current TV reports. My heart is breaking. Young school children, Christians gathering in church, theatergoers, people at work, high school and college students, a nightcub packed with gays -- what next? No one is safe.

Omar Mateen followed all the rules for obtaining and registering his guns. He'd even been looked at more than once by the FBI. Yet he was a loose screw with a background of wife beating and instability. So who can we trust with guns? Whom do we allow to have guns?

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Why would there" be nothing left....." In some States you can't use it for hunting because they believe the .223 caliber is too SMALL.. If it's a "people killing machine" seems like a good reason for self defense. Have you ever fired one? Sorry to pick at you but statements like those you made are reactive.

Sometimes on here I get the feeling that some are good at talking over, walking over or what ever when they don't agree with what you say or think. I repeat what is wrong with a "No Buy List", you sure as hell would have thought that after 2 Investigations, the FBI would have done something to stop that guy from getting a gun? DUH.

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Originally Posted by ma0641

Why would there" be nothing left....." In some States you can't use it for hunting because they believe the .223 caliber is too SMALL.. If it's a "people killing machine" seems like a good reason for self defense. Have you ever fired one? Sorry to pick at you but statements like those you made are reactive.

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You are 100% correct, it is considered to light for hunting.

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Originally Posted by ma0641

Why would there" be nothing left....." In some States you can't use it for hunting because they believe the .223 caliber is too SMALL.. If it's a "people killing machine" seems like a good reason for self defense. Have you ever fired one? Sorry to pick at you but statements like those you made are reactive.

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Yes, I have fired one. Omar did an outstanding job making history with that small caliber rifle. How many AR-15s are needed and used for self defense each month?

There is a great misconception about an AR. It doesn't stand for Assault Rifle, it stands for Armalite Research, the designer. It is a semi automatic rifle. What makes this so much more horrible than a WWII M1 or, the rifle I carried in the service, an M14? In actuality, either of these 2 are much more likely to cause extensive body damage but work the same as an AR15. Military snipers don't use an AR because, it is not a " killing machine ". There is no difference in hunting with a bolt action, single shot or semi auto. In fact, a semi auto maybe a better choice for older people. I personally use a 243 bolt action because it is actually more powerful than a semi auto of the samecaliber and more powerful than a 223, the standard AR round. The primary reason the AR was chosen for military use is that soldiers were having difficulty carrying the much higher caliber bullet and, most combat firing was close range, not at long distance.
Horrible tragedy but let's not forget WHO allowed this person to do the damage he did. Florida for giving him a carry permit after knowing there were questions, the FBI for being smooth talked and the police for waiting 3 hours to do something. From my understanding on the news, the company he worked for was informed of some of his ideologic thinking and didn't want to say anything BECAUSE he was a Muslim! Great political correctness my have caused many of these casualties.

See how people jump to the conclusion that AR stands for Assault Rifle. Like I have said, the Media and Government are very good at labeling or should I say Mis-labeling.

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Originally Posted by catonsville

See how people jump to the conclusion that AR stands for Assault Rifle. Like I have said, the Media and Government are very good at labeling or should I say Mis-labeling.

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I have never heard or read that, that AR stands for assault rifle. Semi-automatic version of the AR-15 = assault capability.

What ever read post #31

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Originally Posted by catonsville

What ever read post #31

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A semiautomatic spits out 1-3 rounds a second. To me, that's an assault. How many rounds were in his magazine? How often did he reload?

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

A semiautomatic spits out 1-3 rounds a second. To me, that's an assault. How many rounds were in his magazine? How often did he reload?

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I think you need to relook at the real definition of semi-auto. It is 1 pull of the trigger and 1 shot per pull. By your definition most guns today would fit into the assault class. Modern well fitted bolt actions can spit 3 rounds in a second.

It's the gun's fault. It's the NRA's fault. It's the FBI's fault. I haven't seen on this thread that it's Mohammed's fault but Smoothy hasn't posted yet. I thought about posting that it's the fault of gun-free zones. This one, like most other crimes, is the fault of the irresponsible person who committed the crime.

If we stopped giving out participation trophies and started teaching our kids responsibility there would be fewer of these crimes.

Oliver, I truly hope none of your friends were there Saturday.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

A semiautomatic spits out 1-3 rounds a second. To me, that's an assault. How many rounds were in his magazine? How often did he reload?

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I have a semi auto 22 caliber rifle, a Ruger 10/22. It too can shoot 3 rounds per second. Is it an assault rifle? One of the things you are taught in an Active Shooter class is timing. In order to reload ANYsemi auto rifle, you have to unshoulder the weapon, release the empty magazine, get the filled magazine, insert it into the weapon and the cycle the first round. Time enough to do something concrete. Look at Sandy Hook. They told the children to hide under the desk,no one th ought to lock the door and they sat there even though they had a door to the outside. Look up an Active Shooter class near you, it may save your life!

Anyone shooting at me (and my friends) with 1-3 rounds a second is assaulting us.

Ah, the never ending gun debate again.

Why even bother to post? Those that want to have guns and fight to have guns, also fight for those that want to have guns and want to cause mass chaos and death with those guns. Those be the facts. You can't have it both ways. Either there's no guns to anyone, or guns to everyone, which means that bad people will get guns and do bad things, over and over and over and over and over and... well, it's never ending. The next mass shooting is just around the corner, and the US knows it. They're the mass murder capital of the world!

The US is messed up when it comes to guns and gun control. Americans don't want gun control, they want to sit back and think pretty thoughts about guns not being the problem. They post memes about guns not killing people but people killing people. Sadly, in the US, the people killing people, they have guns. But having guns are their right! So be it. Their rights are going to be the death of them all.

It's a losing battle. Most of the world has figured this out. Most of the world has major gun control laws. Those parts of the world rarely, if ever, deal with mass shootings, and all this other crap. Americans can't seem to get on board, and they don't want to. They want their guns, so let them have their guns, and let them deal with the consequences. I love my American friends, but frankly, at this point, I'm with the rest of the world. Let them have their rights, and when they finally kill themselves off, the rest of the world can set things right.

I for one am sick of trying to make them see a better way. They won't see it. They won't give up their guns. So let them all kill each other if that's what they want, which sadly, seems to be exactly what they want. :(

So done with this fight. You can only preach reason to a stone for so long before you realize the stone won't listen.

No amount of reason or facts will make them see that guns are the problem. So let them have their guns. No problem. Just don't try to bring them to my country!