I have a Dell Dimension 8100 with v.A02 Bios. Latest Bios update is A09. I'd like to try flashing to the new version, but have heard horror stories about this killing a computer.

I've been searching for hours and can't find a way to backup the A02 Bios before the flash, and how to Restore it if the flash failed.

The A02 download doesn't seem to be available anywhere either.

I read that in some cases, the flash process allows you to make a backup, but I don't know if this old Dell download does that.

Can anyone help with this?

Thanks...

The bios files out there are becoming more and more exe files that can be problematic. The older floppy drive ones came in several parts one being the bios file and the other the flash utility that gets loaded at boot and finally you making the blank floppy formatted and with system files (although I always remove config.sys and autoexe.bat). Then you would copy the files to the floppy as well and set to boot to floppy first in the bios and run it. If the floppy version has a save feature you can save the old bios but if everything goes smoothly you won't need it. Power outages during the flash and newer exe file screwups are the most common form of ruining a PC, but I have flashed my bios with floppies hundereds of times with no problem. The floppy files (if available) will also contain a link with instructions to follow to the letter or the instruction may be in a zip file with the flash utility and bios together.

Thanks. The A09 update is a self extracting bootable file for a floppy.

I found the A02 (my current version) buried in the Dell site. It too has a version for a floppy, but says the diskette must 1st be a bootable diskette. I found that in "XP Format", there is a check box to make the diskette bootable during a format.

Do you know if this would be appropriate before loading the A02 Bios on this diskette as a backup to my A09 upgrade?

For your A02 bios Xp will allow you to create a system disk, and that's where I mentioned I always remove the config.sys and autoexe.bat files after I create it, then you can add your flash utility and the bios to the system disk. Those types do not auto run at boot and you have to call up the flash utility by name at the prompt after booting to the floppy (there may be instructions in the zip if that's how it came). The auto creator you downloaded for A09 may be that, it might be the type that automatically runs without calling the utility first. If there is room on the floppy for the a02 backup you can put it on there but that's not a true backup. A true backup will be created prior to the flash and will be put on the floppy if there is room, or you can put it on the hard drive somewhere easy to find. Name it very similar to the A09 but change it to A02. I would leave the downloaded a02 off the floppy until after you do the a09 flash. Then if your not given the opportunity to back up, you can add it yourself to the floppy created by A09 and have an autorun if that's what it is. Since a floppy is so small (1.44mb) it can be a limiting factor, and a backup is pretty much useless after a successful update. Why would you go back to A02 if A09 is better?

I'm not very familiar with the Bios, and have never flashed one before. To answer your question, I just thought it wouldn't hurt to make an A02 disk in case some weird thing happens with A09.

I actually started flashing to A09 last night, and all was going well until just before the file installation (in DOS), when I got the following warning: "The Boot Block Code is different. The Boot Block will be flashed if you continue."

I Googled this and called everyone I knew, and no one has ever heard of a Boot Block. I didn't know if this was just part of the normal flash update, or a problem. Since it came up as a "warning", I decided to abort the flash.

My friend told me that if the BIOS gets corrupted in some way, it may not boot off any drive, and I wouldn't even be able to restore to A02. His point: If it isn't broken...

Do you happen to know about this Boot Block warning I received?

You mentioned making a System Disk in XP. How is that done? And what is the difference between that and a bootable diskette make in the Format Window? The BIOS Download instructions say to make a bootable diskette and load the BIOS files to that.

Thanks...

PS: This is a bit confusing to me. I appreciate your patience.

Update:

I just Googled how to make a "System Disk" in XP. The instructions are exactly what I was talking about... using Disk Format to make Bootable. Is this what you were referring to?: (see steps below from article)

(I would still really like to know if you have info on that Boot Block Code warning.)

Thanks...

# Begin by placing a blank floppy disk into your floppy drive.
# Double click on the My Computer icon on your Desktop until it opens.
# Then gently click on the 3½ Floppy (A:) icon just enough until it becomes highlighted.
# Then click on the word File, which is contained in your top tool bar area.
# This will pull down a menu for you to now click on the word Format.
# Place a check mark in the box next to Create an MS-DOS startup disk at the bottom of the screen.
# Then click the Start button to begin creating your Startup Disk.
# Windows will display a warning that Formatting erase all data or your disk. Click OK to continue.
# Windows will then display a progress indicator bar denoting the status of your System Disk.
# When the status bar reaches 100% your System Startup Disk will be complete.

Bios flashing is no longer the dragon that it once was. Still it is not to be done with out warrant or if you will not get some real advantage why bother. The chance of bricking a machine is still there however flash utilities are much better now. With some devices there are even utilities to repair bad flashes though I have not seen one for a computer, be it that I seldom flash bios on computers they may be available.

Thank you Mr Meeks.

I have learned in the past few days, as you have indicated, that flashing is easier and safer than in the past. Unfortunately, my PC is still living in the past. The one that I was trying to flash is vintage 2001. There doesn't seem to be any fail safes. Just so you know, I was originally trying to flash it due to a continuing, but intermittent problem with my Boot sector, or MBR, or MFT (I really don't know) getting corrupted. Someone I know suggested the flash. I have since learned that the Bios doesn't write anything to the HDD, so it is unlikely that they are related.

I am very curious about the Boot Block Code warning. I have spent so much time on this, and then to just abandon the project without knowing why... well it's bugging me.

Update on my original problem of the continuing corrupted hard drive not booting to Windows. The latest theory is an MBR virus. Makes sense from what I have read. So I shall move forward and "kill" my drive and do a fresh install. Apparently formatting doesn't get to the MBR viruses. So it shall be a total nuke job.

Thanks...

Normally the boot block is not written to, but I suppose if you have the wrong A09 that the utility may see that the actual bios files are different from what the boot block requires so its offering to change it. You have to be careful when choosing a bios because many motherboards have several revisions. They may have the same model number for the board but there can be rev.1.0 rev.1.2 which are changes made to the board during manufacture to solve problems found out in the wild. As is often the case, rev 1.0 and rev 1.2 can have different bios structures or even different bios chip, so they will also have different bios downloads. You might be better off doing some question asking on the Dell forum site where the people are more familiar with the product.

Thank you App. That's a really good explanation and suggestion. I was actually able to understand it.

Can you just clarify for me, where and what is the Boot Block Code? And what is it's function?

Thank You...

OK a 10 year old hard drive would make me suspicious, if I had any could be disk related problem. A good disk utility like Spinrite will do about all that can be done to recover and mark bad sectors but all spinning drives will fail. Good luck

The first thing I did was replace the HDDs with brand new ones.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mitchsc

Thank you App. That's a really good explanation and suggestion. I was actually able to understand it.

Can you just clarify for me, where and what is the Boot Block Code? And what is it's function?

Thank You...

---

BIOS - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.pcguide.com/ref/mbsys/bios/compBoot-c.html

Thank you, this is very good.

I'm exhausted from this project. I did a chat session with Dell Tech Support, and she told me the A09 version I was planning to upgrade my BIOS to, is not compatible with XP. She didn't sound very knowledeable, but who knows. Then I went on the Dell Forum, and found a few people that said it works fine, but the overwhelming consensus is, if it ain't broke, don't fix it... especially the BIOS. This PC is so old, it doesn't seem to have a BIOS recovery feature. My version of the BIOS is ancient, A02, but it's working with XP. The only reason I even considered the BIOS upgrade was because of my boot sector corruption on the HDD that happens every 2-3 months. Most people don't think the BIOS could cause this. For now, I am moving forward with the theory of an MBR virus, and I know what to do about that.

Having an intermittent problem that only occurs every 3 months is a bear to troubleshoot.

Thanks again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mitchsc

Thank you, this is very good.

I'm exhausted from this project. I did a chat session with Dell Tech Support, and she told me the A09 version I was planning to upgrade my BIOS to, is not compatible with XP. She didn't sound very knowledeable, but who knows. Then I went on the Dell Forum, and found a few people that said it works fine, but the overwhelming consensus is, if it ain't broke, don't fix it... especially the BIOS. This PC is so old, it doesn't seem to have a BIOS recovery feature. My version of the BIOS is ancient, A02, but it's working with XP. The only reason I even considered the BIOS upgrade was because of my boot sector corruption on the HDD that happens every 2-3 months. Most people don't think the BIOS could cause this. For now, I am moving forward with the theory of an MBR virus, and I know what to do about that.

Having an intermittent problem that only occurs every 3 months is a bear to troubleshoot.

Thanks again.

---

I found something interesting to throw into the mix. Which A09 bios file do you have? There are 2 out there. One uses a "boot" disk and the other is an upgrade from DOS.

See here for more info:

BIOS upgrade.

Ref:

The bios update is available in one of two different formats. The file
Called br55317.exe will create a bootable floppy disk after it is downloaded
To your computer and run. Once you have created the bios update floppy you
Boot with that floppy disk and follow prompts on the screen. The file
Called gx110a09.exe is a compressed version of the bios that expands into
Something that you can put on a floppy or cd and run after you boot the
Machine into dos (most likely from your own floppy disk). You can not
Flash the bios from within windows on this vintage machine

You are correct. I created a diskette based on what Dell refers to as the "Floppy" version. It creates a self extracting DOS bootable diskette with the A09 BIOS on it. Here are the 2 versions from Dell:

Non-Packaged
8100_A09.EXE
Description: This file format consists of a BIOS executable file. To use it, download the file and copy it to a DOS-bootable diskette. With the diskette in the floppy drive, reboot the system and run the program.

Floppy
B8100_09.exe
Description: This file contains a compressed (or zipped) set of files. Download the file to a folder on your hard drive, and then run (double-click) it to unzip the set of files. Follow the instructions to create a set of floppy diskettes, and then use the diskettes to complete the installation.

The main question has always been, is A09 compatible with XP? If you look at the compatibility list on their page, A09 only goes up to Win2000. This is why I was hesitant to flash it.

However, common sense suggests that it should work, since I now have A02 (7 versions earlier), and it is working fine with XP.

But again, if this has nothing to do with my continuing HDD boot sector corruption, there is really no reason to risk and irreversible flash.

My curiosity is killing me on this, however. I'd love to try it, but can't risk killing the mobo. It's frustrating though, not to be able to get an answer as to A09 working with XP.

At least I've learned something about the BIOS in all of this, so it's not a total loss.

I really need some solid help, and some sensible troubleshooting suggestions for the root cause of my intermittent HDD boot sector corruption (every 2-3 months). It's the only thing wrong with the PC. I've been given so much conflicting advice, I don't even know where to start.

Do you think I should re-post the question in a different sub-topic? I think I need to start over in asking for some help on this.

So far, it's been suggested that the causes that fit perfectly are: BIOS, MBR virus, bad RAM, bad power supply, bad mobo capacitors, corroded cable connectors, and a few others. My favorite suggestion was to buy a new computer. That's a great answer because it applies to every conceivable problem anyone could ever ask about.

Thanks for hanging in there with me on this CD3.

PS: now my router is acting up. Just what I needed. Weird because it (intermittently of course) is preventing me from connecting to only one IP address. If I bypass the router, I can connect. I can't get my head around this. How can a router selectively block a single IP address on it's own? Well that's another problem for another day.

Cheers...

The definitive answer is... if A02 works with what you have then A09 will also work. Your trying too hard to understand everything without basics.

Another thing is that if your getting something intermitent How can you be sure now that you have a new hard drive?

You say its every 3 months. Have you considered that's also about the cycle of the weather? So it could be from something outside of the computer causing it. Have you actually checked your input voltage? The one that comes from the wall?

At this point going at it slow is a good thing. But realize that sometimes to grow you have to keep moving forward. What is so special about this computer that makes it unrecoverable should something happen?

I haven't mastered the ability to do Quotes in this forum, so it's cut and paste to respond:

The definitive answer is... if A02 works with what you have then A09 will also work.
I assumed the same, until I called Dell tech support, and they said A09 in not compatible with XP. So what am I to believe? And most people are suggesting not to flash a BIOS unless absolutely necessary.

Another thing is that if your getting something intermittent How can you be sure now that you have a new hard drive? I put in the "new" HDD about 2 years ago. The original was 8 years old at the time, and getting pretty noisy. This intermittent boot sector corruption has been going on since I bought the computer used about that time. It was only happening every 6-8 months at first, so I didn't see a trend until more recently. Now it's happening every 2-3 months. If it is a bad HDD or an MBR virus, replacing the drive and doing a fresh install should take care of it. I just don't like to blindly start swapping out parts without troubleshooting. But I don't know what else to test.

You say its every 3 months. Have you considered that's also about the cycle of the weather? So it could be from something outside of the computer causing it. Have you actually checked your input voltage? The one that comes from the wall? I live in San Diego. We only have one season. It's always 72 degrees here. I have checked the wall voltage and it's 117vac. As far as surges go, I have a surge protector on the system.

At this point going at it slow is a good thing. But realize that sometimes to grow you have to keep moving forward. I agree. I've learned a lot. Much thanks to your continued support CD3. I am all in favor of slow and steady, and never changing more than one thing at a time. As far as going slow, I've been trying to figure this out for 2 years. I think that qualifies as taking my time.

What is so special about this computer that makes it unrecoverable should something happen? I was specifically referring to corrupting the BIOS when I said unrecoverable. From what I have read, if you mess up the BIOS, you may not be able to get the PC to boot from any drive. It is my understanding that all you can do at that point is replace the BIOS chip. So in my opinion, the risk outweighs the benefit on a 10 year old PC. The only reason I might consider taking the risk, is if some expert told me that my symptoms fit a BIOS problem perfectly, and I've been told just the opposite.

The 2 things that make the most sense to me are bad RAM, which I have ruled out, and an MBR virus. I never even heard of an MBR virus until 2 weeks ago. After researching it in some reputable articles, not just opinion, MBR viruses are more common than people realize. And many anti-virus programs won't pick them up on a scan. But tell me if this doesn't make sense. 2 years ago, I bought this used from a guy that refubs PCs in his garage. All he did was format the HDD and reload Windows XP. Who knows what was on that drive before? I loaded everything else. The drive was perfectly clean (I thought). I made a clone of the clean - never been used - HDD and kept it as a "master" so I wouldn't have to load everything manually in the future if the drive got bogged with junk, crashed, or died. So if it is an MBR virus, and it gradually does enough damage to corrupt the HDD so it no longer boots, I would just drag out the "master", re-clone the corrupted HDD, and I'm up and running. But if the master contains the mbr virus, I am just resetting my HDD back in time, if you will, to when I first loaded everything. The fact that the corruption is so consistent, and gradually happening more often, seems to fit this scenario, at least in my head. Obviously, I am no expert, and could be totally off in left field here. These ideas didn't come from me. They were suggestions from people I know that repair PCs for a living. I just am following the suggestions that make the most sense to me first. When it was 1st suggested to flash the BIOS, it sounded so easy. I didn't know about the risks, nor did I know that Dell does not believe this updated BIOS to be compatible with XP. And when I got the Boot Block warning in the middle of the flash, that was enough for me. You may be correct about A09 working if A02 does. Intuitively, it makes perfect sense. But I have been told recently that the BIOS could not cause this HDD corruption, so I really don't see the point in taking an unnecessary chance. I may never fix this thing, and that would not be the end of the world. But I would like to try to find the problem. As you have pointed out, it's how we learn, and I'm all for that.

CD3, I hope that my explanation did not in any way sound curt. There is so much behind everything, I am just trying to explain the background that lead to where I am today, and the questions I am asking. Believe it or not, I have a degree in electronics engineering (although I'm sure you'd never know it based on my questions), so I tend to approach things analytically. When it comes to electronics, I'm actually very good at troubleshooting. But computer repair came to me later in life, and it's an entirely new species to me. They seem to almost be living beings at times. I've really enjoyed all that I have learned, and intend to keep going. So... that's pretty much the whole story.

PS: your seasonal suggestion was very clever. Now that's thinking outside the box. If I lived in Minnesota, I'd be all over that one.

Thanks again... M

Have you tried a good program like Avast? Have you run a scan on the disk to recover any bad sectors? There is a lot of things going on but in reality they follow a straight line. A leads to B leads to C etc.

The power supply being off from its nominal voltage can make things goofy. If your disk slows down your not likely to notice it until your voltage returns to normal. Then everything that had been written can not be read. Imagne playing a record at the proper speed. It sounds nice. But slow it down or speed it up and its whacked. Your disk drive is actually the same in that the "heads" inside put down magnetic information on the disk and then have to read/write from it at a later time.

If you want to check out Avast you can get the free version here.

www.avast.com

The primary scan is a scan on boot for exactly what your talking about. What your actually describing would be called a worm virus (works in the background) as if an earthworm - you don't see them but you know they are there.

Most format apps do not remove the MBR, so Viruses use it to protect themselves and come back on you (they can get into memory too). The older Win98 emergency or install floppies had a format that you could set switches, and using the switch /u meant to format unconditionally so the MBR was removed and then re-written later when you format from fat32 (win98) to ntfs or before installation of a clean install.
If its been bad from the beginning and seems to be getting worse, I would suspect a possible chipset problem on the mobo. If the drive controller chipset is damaged (over heated or static, what ever) it could cause your intermittent issues. Since a new drive did the same thing you can bet its not the drive or even your old one for that matter. Power supply as mentioned is also possible.
You always wanted to build your own Machine anyway right? If you have some money, now is as good a time as any. You have all the help you'll need from here and its time to get your feet wet. When I was poor (yesterday) I had a plan to buy the parts a little at a time starting with parts that do not change from month to month (case, power supply, opticals, floppy drive if you want it) then after deciding which way you want to go (intel or amd) pick a motherboard that just came out but don't buy it yet, get memory and a cpu for it for your next purchases. At this point your stuck with the memory slot and cpu slot from that purchase but you can change your motherboard choice if something new comes out as long as the memory and cpu you bought are compatible. This will allow you to buy parts a little at a time and since you put off the motherboard until last you get to choose from the latest expensive stuff or a little older price dropped models and you also get the benefit of a longer testing and review of the board. Just as intel screwed up with the sandybridge, motherboards often come out in revisions to fix issues found by consumers. So if the board you picked ends up in revision 2.0 you can be pretty sure all the bugs are out.

When building a machine it takes 2 things.
1) The skill to build it.
2) A lot of luck.

Building from the ground up isn't that difficult. You just have to pay attention.
The luck come in when your purchasing your parts. Its all about timing and getting the best deal.
The computer I built 3 years ago took about 45 days to build. Like has been said lots of shopping for best price. You spend what you can afford but if done right you can have a machine that lasts well into the future.

Thank you both for the suggestions. App, I really appreciate your offer of continued help from the forum. Sometimes I feel like I'm taking advantage by asking so many questions. CD3 has been with me on this from the beginning. Can't thank you all enough. OK, done with the sappy stuff.

CD3: I have run checkdisk & repair, but not Avast. I did run my regular CA security suite (so so), but also Malwarebytes which has always been excellent. I didn't know that Avast checks the MBR. I've heard it's a good program. I will try your excellent suggestion of checking all the power supply voltages. That's a good one, with objective results. Thanks. (Unfortunately, this Dell uses a proprietary power supply which is expensive and hard to find. If it's a bad PS, I'll probably just trash it. I did read an article about modifying a standard PS so the pinouts match the Dell PS. All the voltages are the same, Dell just decided to make the pinout configuration different, so you had to buy it from them.)

App: Like many people, I used to think that a Format erased the drive. I recently learned it does not touch the mbr. I use a program called Active Killdisk which overwrites the entire physical drive. As far as I know, nothing can survive that. Here's the thing. I did replace the original drive with a brand new one 2 years ago, but I never did a fresh install on it. I just cloned it from the original 8 year old dive. That was before I learned about MBR viruses. I just assumed the old drive was going bad, so I didn't see the harm in just cloning everything to a new HDD. This MBR virus (worm) may have been on the original drive for years, and I just copied it over. If it is an MBR virus, and I "kill" the entire drive and do a fresh install, that will at least narrow it down to either an infection on the HDD (which will be gone), or something in the PC (power supply, chipset, etc).

Thanks for the suggestion to build my own PC. I don't think I have the energy for that one.

Well, not much more to say. I'll check the PS voltages, and if they're OK, go ahead with the HDD kill and fresh install. That's all the strength I have left for this beast.

Cheers all...

Active Kill Disk can take quite some time, your almost better off buying an extra drive for your fresh install.

I'm actually considering that. But it only took 4 hours to kill a 250GB HDD through a USB connection. Is that worth $60? Took me overnight to test my RAM. Yikes!

Ram testing is setup to make continuous passes until you tell it to stop. All the bad ram I have ever seen (which isn't much) have all failed within minutes of starting the test. The long pass runs are to look for intermittent errors that seldom occur.

If you kill your 250 and install your OS, and two or three months down the line your issue rears its ugly head, what do you know? Could the 250 be a bad drive as well as the original? Adding a 500gig all by itself should tell you if the issue is drive related. There's a very slim chance you'll get another bad drive but I doubt it would do the same thing. And after your testing is over, you can add the old killed 250 back as a slave and have a total of 750gig. If you partition a 500 gig into 2 250 partitions you will also be able to copy the OS from the 500 to the 250 and use that as you C drive and kill the 500 as storage (I like to keep my smallest drive C for defrag and virus cleanup reasons and store everything on a secondary).

I thought about your suggestion to buy a new HDD instead of killing the "slightly" used one, after my last post, and decided to take your advice for the reasons you just listed. It rules out one more variable.

However, I have also been reading a lot about 48 bit LBA support, and found several people that have had EXACTLY the same symptoms as me... the boot sector getting corrupted intermittently.

Here's the deal: I have an old BIOS, almost certainly 28 bit. I am using XP SP3 as a workaround to run the > 137GB HDD (250GB in my case). It has been shown by others, that you apparently cannot depend on XP for this. It is unstable. The suggested solutions are, flash the BIOS to 48 bit LBA support, or partition down the HDD < 137GB, or both. Several people completely solved their MBR corruptions by just using a smaller partition for the operating system.

That said, there are other articles that state that this is unacceptable for various reason I don't even understand. One said that it doesn't matter if you have a 48 bit LBA BIOS if your mobo IDE controller is not 48 bit compliant.

I'm going to try the smaller partition (on the new HDD) and see if that does the trick.

Very interesting, and complex stuff.

I just spotted a search link that said the LBA is only a problem for XP with no SP's yet (it was about the dell dim 8100 too). That means if your install disk is the original with no SP's added, the system will install with the 137 limit and your stuck with the lower LBA. If you can slipstream your install disk with at least SP1 (google nlite and use it for sp only don't fool around... YET!) it should solve that issue. I suspect that since XP is not listed in the OS choices for your PC at the Dell site, that Dell is aware of an issue it wants no responsibility for, so they removed XP from the list and limited Bios choices to the last one with no issues for Win 2000. I saw no way to access older ones.
Google:
Dell Dimension 8100 archived bios

Some interesting reading, including mention of an XP bios (B81XPP2.exe) that seems to have disappeared.

A few remarks about installing A09 to the Dim 8100, If you think about it though, since the bios is being flashed from DOS, what OS you have is irrelevant, it hasn't even loaded yet, you could flash a bios with a floppy with no hard drive installed, just memory (it creates a virtual drive from your memory sticks). So maybe its failing cause it knows the 24bit HD will not be seen by the new 48bit bios. Some one should ask Santa for an expensive gift next year.

My XP install CD is indeed prior to any service packs. I install it on an old small HDD (< 137GB), then add SP1a, then SP3 (must add SP1a 1st, or SP3 won't load). Once I have SP3 installed, I can clone the old 40GB HDD to a 250GB HDD.

Do you see anything wrong with this procedure above?

Also, I decided to flash the BIOS with Dell's XP2 update (click here ). I've been told to stop over-thinking this and just do it. I confirmed with Dell Tech Support, and 2 long term Dell Forum "experts" that 48 bit LBA support was added in ver A07, and is definitely included in BIOS ver XP2. I have no idea why they have a special BIOS update for WinXP.

Do you know if there is some way to confirm that this XP2 BIOS update does actually have the 48 bit LBA support, once I install it?

Just for kicks, I found a little utility to copy an installed BIOS if anyone wants to make a backup before a flash: http://www.ehow.com/how_5744724_create-flash-bios-backup.html

Looks like the link didn't transfer for the XP2 BIOS Update. Here it is: http://support.dell.com/support/downloads/download.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&releaseid=R362 58&SystemID=DIM_PNT_P4_8100&os=WW1&osl=en&deviceid =308&devlib=0&typecnt=1&vercnt=6&formatcnt=2&libid =1&fileid=40731

The article I saw mentioned that installing with no sp's caused the system to install with only 28bit addressing, and it could not be changed by updating to new sp's. That's why I mentioned nlite. It's fairly straight forward and you don't mess with your disk. You just copy the contents of the disk to the hard drive and nlite works on it there. So you would check only to add the sp's and not to create a boot disk on the first pass. Integrate sp1a first then integrate sp3, and during the sp3 integration also check the box for creating a boot iso and your done. There are a lot of other things you can mess around with but for now stick to getting a disk you burn with the sp's on it and your LBA problem should go away. Nlite also has links to files for integration, but I have never looked for sp1a since I have never needed it. I have been integrating disks with SP's and with the latest criticals as well so I don't have a ton of stuff to download from MS after install. So with that in mind you might want to grab the critical updates too while you messing around. Once you get a good SP3 with the latest criticals you'll be happy as a clam.

Let me see if I understand this:

NLite integrates the XP, SP1a, and SP3 onto a single CD that I would burn for future installs of XP-SP3 ? And this would then give me the 48 bit LBA support, that I may not be getting now by starting with a straight XP CD?

I don't know if this makes any difference, but my XP CD is an "upgrade" from Win98. It always asks me to install the original Win98 CD during the XP installation to verify the files. Would that make any difference in using Nlite?

App, If the PC BIOS is already 48 bit LBA compliant, does the XP issue even matter? 2 of my PC's are, and I was going to flash the BIOS on the 3rd. I'm certain now that I have the right version.

One last thing that is puzzling about the NLite scenario. If starting with a straight XP CD, locks the OS at 28 bit, how is it that I am able to run a 250GB HDD (fully recognizable in disk management) after I install SP3?

Thanks for the suggestion. If I got it right, I love the idea of merging 3 CDs into one.

After installing SP3 from the original disk's install that was made in 28bit, the disk is still 28bit but the whole disk is recognized in size after SP3 not any change in LBA the SP fixes the limit but not by changing it to 48bit. Once the disk has been created as 28bit it cannot be changed to 48bit by any SP. I should have saved the link I saw for you to read.
I don't think the upgrade is a problem, since all nlite sees is the i386 files and that's where it updates the SP's. You cannot go from original straight to SP3 as you found out, and it's the same with nlite. Although (I have never done this) you might be able to load them in order (actually pointing to them from within nlite) and nlite would install sp1a then sp2 or 3 which ever you choose. The nlite site has many tutorials and you can get help in the forum. Really that's the place to get it right. If you want to see how its done manually with just windows and the files from the commandline, Google "slipstream XP". There you will see how to integrate sp's and also critical updates without nlites help. There is a link on the nlite site to get all the criticals up to last month or so (Links > Xable - XP Update Packs). I'm not sure about the SP's, will it take exe files or do you have to extract them (winrar and 7zip will do it). I do know that you have to use nlite on a machine that has at least dot net 2.0 and is also 32bit I believe.

Go through a few tutorials and look in the forum to see what others are doing before you dive in. I wouldn't fool around too much, nlite can do a lot if stuff like turn off the shortcut arrows and change what is or isn't on the desktop and a ton of things I don't even know what they are.

I also had to use a win98 disk verification to load XP, but that was a while back, and nlite wasn't born yet so I'm unsure of two sp's at once. To be safe do them one at a time. Since the first step is to extract the disk to the hard drive (ultraiso or any freeware iso extract utility can do this) the only files you mess with are not on the disk itself. And if you use an CD-RW re-writable for testing, you can be sure its bootable and installs correctly before burning a hard copy.

Wow. This is a bit over my head. The main thing I need to better understand is a 28 bit vs a 48 bit "disk". Are you referring to the HDD? I didn't know that the OS codes the HDD to 28 or 48 bit, if I am understanding you correctly.

I flashed the BIOS to 48 bit. If it's important to have a 48 bit OS or HDD (?? ), maybe I should just invest in a new XP-SP3 CD. They're getting cheap.

Can you please clarify above in novice language?

Thanks.

App. I have been reading for hours on the issue you brought up regarding a fresh install of Windows XP "creating" a 28 bit LBA hard drive, even if you update to Service Pack 1 or later.

The best that I can tell are these 2 points:

1) Newer hard drives are manufactured to be 48 bit

2) Adding SP1 (or later) to an original Windows XP installation is the same as installing Windows XP SP1 (or later).

If the BIOS and the HDD are 48 bit, then updating XP to SP1, 2, or 3 gives you full 48 bit addressing.

The only thing you may need to do if updating from Windows XP to SP1, is use a partition tool to expand the 137GB partition created by the original Windows installation.

This site seems to be the preeminent source for 48 bit LBA information. Please see the last paragraph at this link: http://www.48bitlba.com/winxp.htm

If I have misunderstood, PLEASE let me know.

Thanks...

I'm no expert on 48bit vs 28bit its never been an issue for me. The last paragraph you mention says what I said, you can upgrade to sp1 to get more than 137gig room (using a partition tool or not) but I believe the drive will still run at 28bit from the original sp0 install. Unless you do a fresh install with at least sp1 "integrated on the disk" you will end up in 28bit mode and I believe the bios must be in 28bit to match, but I do not know for sure. It's the hard drive that determines 28bit or 48bit. 48bit compliant is probably able to run at 28bit too but you do not get the full benefit of 48bitt addressing.

The first paragraph says you also have to have a 48bit compatible bios, if your original hard drive was 28bit only, they probably put a 28bit bios (flashed) in for the drive, and as long as you kept installing from your original disk there was no problem. But when you went to flash to A09 it wouldn't do it cause the drive was 28bit or the bios doesn't want to go from 28bit to 48bit for fear of compatibility issues or has no 28bit capability. Perhaps dropping an e-mail to Dell tech support could ease your mind. Explain your predicament and see what they say. I know in really old machines bios chips could be unplugged and replaced unlike machines today. Perhaps you have to replace it to get 48bit addressing. I'm sure they would gladly charge you an arm and a leg for a new one.

As I mentioned before you can try installing the bios from floppy with the drive disconnected and see if you get the same error. I don't think you have to have a hard drive installed to flash a bios. With no hard drive would the 48bit addressing still be an issue?

Here is some more information on the subject if your interested.

Logical block addressing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


48bitLBA.com - Overview

I guess you can interpret that statement either way. I see your point.

During my research, I kept reading over and over, that the drives are "manufactured" to be 48 bit. I can't find any statements that say, they will operate at 28 bit.

You're more of an expert than me, that's for sure. Just thinking it through though, even if the SP1 was integrated in the XP CD, wouldn't it still load in steps from the single XP CD? First XP, then SP1, which would be the same as loading them manually??

I don't know...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mitchsc

I guess you can interpret that statement either way. I see your point.

During my research, I kept reading over and over, that the drives are "manufactured" to be 48 bit. I can't find any statements that say, they will operate at 28 bit.

You're more of an expert than me, that's for sure. Just thinking it thru though, even if the SP1 was integrated in the XP CD, wouldn't it still load in steps from the single XP CD? First XP, then SP1, which would be the same as loading them manually???

I don't know...

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Check the second link I posted in the above thread. It has tools in it so you don't have to worry about this issue. Its on the left side of the page posted.