Iwasgoingtowritesomethingaboutthisatlast,butforsom ereasonthisprogramwon'tacknowledgethatmyspacebarex ists!!Quote:
Originally Posted by dwashbur
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Iwasgoingtowritesomethingaboutthisatlast,butforsom ereasonthisprogramwon'tacknowledgethatmyspacebarex ists!!Quote:
Originally Posted by dwashbur
Let's see if it's working today. Hey, look at that! Spaces!!
I have no idea what that was about. Anyway, in response to the question, after much research and examining, I can't do any better than the article I already posted. It lays things out as well as I ever could, so here it is again for convenience.
Clobbering “Biblical” Gay Bashing
If your gay you should not worrie what people think. Them and any narrow view that claims to know better.
If your gay you should not worrie what people think. Them and any narrow view that claims to know better.
Them
The whole point is any form of sexual relationship outside of marriage is sin, that is God doesn't like it and forbids it. Jesus loves the sinner but hates the sin, he didn't condemn the woman caught in adultery but forgave her and told her to stop doing it. Homosexual acts are singled out because they are unnatural and there is a consequence for this. Historically, homosexual acts were part of pagan temple worship and so are unacceptable for God's people
There can be gay Christians but they cannot engage in homosexual acts, why do you think so many paedophiles wound up in the church? A mistaken belief devoting yourself to God dealt with your self discipline problem
Paraclete wrote: There can be gay Christians but they cannot engage in homosexual acts, why do you think so many paedophiles wound up in the church? A mistaken belief devoting yourself to God dealt with your self discipline problem
That last sentence - you may be onto something there.
These are rather contradictory. Indeed they were part of pagan temple worship, so that's enough to make them taboo for Israel, and also for Paul. But I don't see any evidence for the first sentence.Quote:
Homosexual acts are singled out because they are unnatural and there is a consequence for this. Historically, homosexual acts were part of pagan temple worship and so are unacceptable for God's people
Out of curiosity, why can't you be a Christian and still be involved in homosexual activity? You can be a Christian and steal, lie, fornicate... I mean that isn't what God wants for us but it happens. I once heard someone very intelligent in the Word say there is NO WAY you can be in a homosexual relationship and still be saved. Do you think that is true?
Thank you! I've seen so many "prominent" Christians and others say this it makes me ill. What they are saying is, "God's grace can forgive everything...except that." I've had people tell me I can't be a Christian and hold my political views. So to some people, grace isn't strong enough to cover that, either.Quote:
Out of curiosity, why can't you be a Christian and still be involved in homosexual activity? You can be a Christian and steal, lie, fornicate... I mean that isn't what God wants for us but it happens. I once heard someone very intelligent in the Word say there is NO WAY you can be in a homosexual relationship and still be saved. Do you think that is true?
If grace is grace, then it covers everything. If it doesn't cover everything then it's not grace. It's works. Sometimes it really is that simple. You and I have some fun with our disagreements, but at the end of the day, Grace is where we huddle together to soak up the Lord's warmth. I like being there, and I like hanging out there with you and my other brethren and sistren there.
Dave,
Trust me... your political views are sending you to hell. Ha ha I'm so funny. NO. I am in totally agreement with you, Grace is Grace! It has NOTHING to do with our performance. Having said that, Paul clearly states that if we are under grace sin doesn't have dominion over us. Grace is the power to get rid of sin... but the pulpits are too afraid to preach it. So instead we get 10 steps on how to improve the flesh. Of course, they don't call it that, but it is what it is. Grace and Truth CAME by Jesus Christ.
Forgive me for not laughing at that one. I've had multiple instances where "Christians" have been telling me just that. The American Church has thoroughly lost its way and has no idea what is really important any more. That's what happens when you mix Christianity with politics. CHRISTIANITY ALWAYS LOSES AND GETS CORRUPTED.Quote:
Trust me... your political views are sending you to hell. Ha ha I'm so funny.
Well it's ridiculous and I certainly don't believe someone goes to hell because they are on the wrong side of me politically. Sadly, the church really has no clue as to what sends a person to hell. They make little of the blood and much of works. If you asked most people in the world ( not Christians) how one gets to heaven they will tell you do good, be kind, love and maybe you will make it. Worse if you asked most Christians you will get the same answer plus they add accept Jesus as your savior too. Smh This is MY passion. The answers are wrong, wrong and WRONG! Sometimes I am concerned even for you! I don't think you understand grace. You struggle and it's because you don't rightly divide the word of truth. I know I am beating a dead horse but the perfect example is in the gospels when Jesus separates the sheep and the goats. That ain't grace! We know that God's word is truth and what Jesus states in that passage is not at ALL what Paul inspired by the Holy Spirit explains in Romans. It would behoove us to figure out why. I don't think you can reconcile the two properly unless your rightly DIVIDE the word of truth. Oh I know, I know, I know... off topic and you won't discuss this passage with me here. Excuses, excuses.
You're correct it's off topic, but if you want to start another thread, I'll gladly try to educate you. Again. :P
You can be Christian and also sin, but then the teaching of the Christian faiths (and non-Christian faiths) is that there are consequences for your decisions. Perhaps this teaching evolved from the examples we see in this life, that we all experience the consequences of our decisions, so it's likely we do in the next life as well. If you don't agree with the teaching, don't worry about it and live your life and just be aware that your consequences in this world will be certain and won't be up to you - the choices you make are yours, but what becomes of those choices will be out of your hands.
But that's the whole question, whether it is actually "sin" when it's in a committed marital relationship. The biblical passages fall into two categories: 1) resistance to outside Canaanite culture (Leviticus etc.) and warnings against promiscuity (1 Corinthians etc.). So I don't think we can reach a definitive conclusion about a married, faithful same-sex couple based on that. Under those conditions, leave them alone.
Let's try a slightly different tack. You're in church, service is just starting. Two men, newcomers, come through the door with big smiles on their faces, excited to be here. You notice they're holding hands.
What do you do?
Welcome your fellow human or at least MYOB!
It's interesting (telling?) that my last question got exactly one response.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwashbur
That may be because you come across as disingenuous in this thread that you started.
You seem to be relying on Leviticus and Corinthians as a support for a committed gay relationship. But, as anybody can see, neither remotely supports that position.
The one condemns homosexuality as a foreign pagan rite which you imply has no bearing on ordinary sexual practice, just sexual practice within pagan rites. That's a stretch. The other condemns homosexuality within a general prohibition against promiscuity. But you (and the others you linked to), all learned linguists, play with the semantics to change the meaning of key words. Ok, but that still does NOT approve of gay sexual practice.
It is a logical fallacy to go from an aspect of a thing forbidden to a completely different aspect of that thing being permitted. I have an interest in the question because of its Biblical connection - the context in which your question was posed. I don't think the pro-gay Bible crowd has made its case.
But I can see why it is so important to Bible believing Christians. What I don't see is why they can't just dismiss the disapproval as reflecting the times of past millenia. We've come a long way since then. (The Fundamentalists, of course, would not allow for the Bible to have changeable views in a case like this).
The Bible is a "good book", suitable for guidance and ancient history and beautiful spiritual poetry. It tells a fascinating tale of an ancient nomadic tribe as it discovered great truths about itself and its members and its God. Do I believe it was written by God? No.
My personal view, FWIW, is I have no interest in how consenting adults live their private lives. They're free to be what they want to be.
Bravo Athos. Very well said! Wish I could greenie you but sadly I have to spread the rep.
Very well said. I have no problem with people disagreeing; I have a problem when those people try to take rights away from other people. Your suggestion has merit, I need to look into it more. Thanks!
And I also am required to spread the rep around before I can give you a green. Oh well.
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