Who was the woman from whom Jesus cast out seven demons? What were the demons?
HANK :)
|
Who was the woman from whom Jesus cast out seven demons? What were the demons?
HANK :)
Well, it was Mary THE Magdalene.
I don't know what the 7 demons were.
Probably some illnesses of some sorts, because, AS YOU SHOULD KNOW,
There are no such things as demons.
Silly boy
Who, me? An All-American jock in two sports two times over? I guess I'm slipping but I doubt it!
HANK :rolleyes:
Hi Hank,
Jesus cast the 7 demons out of Mary Magdalene (Mark 16:9 amd Luke 8:2). There is no mention of what the demons were.
Why were they not mentioned. This makes a good point. What else doesn't the bible have mentioned in it. Who exactly edited this book over it's many translations, many versions over many centuries?Quote:
Originally Posted by mechimom
Surely that's quibbling! And where does this line of reasoning end? That the Bible cannot be authentic unless it contains every detail, every thought and action of every person mentioned, and explains every event from the beginning of history? It's impossible. The Bible provides all the information necessary for honest-hearted ones to learn about God and his purposes.Quote:
Originally Posted by celtearth
It's uninformed to make such sweeping criticisms about the integrity of the Bible texts. Modern scholarship reveals little change in the content of the Bible over the centuries. Yes, the various Bible translations have their strengths and weaknesses and readers must be discerning, but the integrity of the Bible as a whole is well-attested.
Chris
Yes there were seven Devils cast out of Mary by Jesus, such is his power. Even the devils are subject to him. Some people do not believe in devils, but the Bible does.
Bultmann demythologised the Bible, as he called the process of removing all references to supernatural events, or explaining them away, believing them to be the ramblings of the simple minded.
But if one accepts the Bible as the Word of God, then one is bound to either accept, to some extent, what it says or else find some very good reasons not to accept what it says.
The Bible has 57 references to "devil"; 48 references to "devils"; 15 references to "evil spirit"; and 4 references to "evil spirits."
That is a total number of 114 references to evil personalities. How can these be explained away as if they did not exist, and what does that "explaining away" do to the veracity of the Bible?
MORGANITE
:)
You mentioned...
“Bultmann demythologised the Bible, as he called the process of removing all references to supernatural events, or explaining them away, believing them to be the ramblings of the simple minded.”
It is people like Bulmann who are the simple mind. Their spirituality is so shallow that they can not accept of comprehend the complex world of God's power and spirituality.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
:)
Who edited the bible? The church. They created it. They changed it to suit their purposes. It is their book to propagate their religion and to support and substansiate their manifesto.
The bible is a conglomeration of many, many ancient stories. It has been so badly interpreted and changed and rewritten that it has become unintelligible. As you said someone took out everything they didn't like or that didn't fit in with their view of things and everything "supernatural"... what might I ask would a god be if not supernatural? Whatever. None of it makes any sense.
The bible is not the word of god. Good grief. If one cares to one can go back and research ancient history. One can also read the apocrypha and everything that was taken out of the bible to learn some quite interesting things. Read the Enuma Elish. The Epic of Gilgamesh. The history of any ancient civilization.
Demons? All in your head, all in your head.
Hogwash!
Pure Hogwash.
There is no REAL HISTORICAL evidence to support your claim.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)
Before experts begin to be unpleasant to each other, perhaps it would be wise to understand that opinions on this subject - the existence or not of evil spirits, or demons - vary, and for different reasons.
Rather than flinging posts of poo at each other, why not set out in simple form the reasons for your position.
I was interested in the poster who recommended reading the Apocrypha, the Enuma Elish ("When on high ..."), and the Epic of Gilgamesh, as I have an academic familiarity with all three.
As for the Jewish Apocrypha, it was never part of the Bible, although it was published in many Bibles, sandwiched between the Old and New Testaments. Neither the Rabbis nor the Christian Fathers admitted it into the canon of scripture. It was printed as a matter of interest, but not held to be equal in inspiration or value to those books that were eventually canonised; that is, given the approval of Synagogue or Church.
As for the Enuma Elish, which is an ancient creation story from the Near East, it does not reach the grandeur or purpose of the Genesis account of Creation, as reading it will readily demonstrate.
But, what it has to do with the existence of demons, keenu, does not say, and I would be very interested in hearing the arguments and seeing how the connection is made.
The same can be said of Gilgamesh. It is an interesting story, and it may predate the written account in Genesis, but that is a matter only of literary interest. Those familiar with the Epic will note that the hero is concerrned only for himself. There are many other disparities between this account of a flood and the Biblical account. Again, the connection to the reality, or otherwise, of demons and devils is not broached.
This is an interesting and fascinating subject, and I believe it deserves better treatment than being the core of a rowdy slanging match.
There have been many statements made about what the Bible is or isn't, and who did what, and why, and when, and where, and how, but they are all unsupported opinions.
Is it asking too much to expect a better standard of debate and argument, instead of flinging unsavoury epithets backwards and forwards at each other?
Why should someone be unsulted because they disagree, or because they see things differently?
MORGANITE
:confused:
You have made some good points.
In regard to the Bible.
Please keep in mind that it is a book of short books and stories.
Taken separately many are in support of each other, much more than mere opinions.
The stories have links too much of the rest of the various publications in one or more ways.
It is akin to publications where an editor has gathered several essays, statements, books, stories or what have you that run along the same lines. Thus a compilation which makes it easier for a student for he/she no longer needs to gather all those offered in his/her quest for information.
Thus the Bible is a book of works that stand up for each other; much more than mere opinion.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)
Have you not ever read any ancient history? Ancient texts? The Apocrypha?
Ancient Civilizations?
No real historical evidence?
Please!
Anyone who cares to educate themselves can.
No excuse not to.
Peace to those on the road to illumination.
Stand and be true
So, someone has some knowledge of Enuma Elish (When on high). I have read it and if you can understand what it is about you will understand that it is more important than anything in the bible. The bible only refers to matters of importance and condenses millennia into one paragraph which on one could hope to understand.
Same for the Epic of Gilgamesh. It is a personal story, but what story isn't?
It gives his account of his journey. It helps to understand what his journey is and what really happens.
Have you ever read Sitchin? The Earth Chronicles? They are worth reading.
Thank you for responding as you did!
Peace and love
On the road to illumination.
Keenu, you disappoint me. I answered some of the charges that you (unjustly) made, and referred to the works that you referred me to, and now you say, "SO WHAT!" and change the ground of your previous argument rather than discuss the substance of your original post.Quote:
Originally Posted by keenu
Shifting the ground of one's argument for any reason is evidence of crooked thinking. I need you to deal with me better and more honestly than that, or else I shall decline to try to help you.
Could I possibly prevail upon you to post your considered opinion as to the major differences between the Enuma Elish and the Genesis account of creation, and also the major difference between the flood of Gilgamesh and that of Noah? Incidentally, both the Enuma and the Epic sit on my bookshelves.
As you raise these documents up against the Bible, to show, I presume (forgive me if I am wrong), the shortcomings of the Bible, you ought at least to show how, where, and why they are superior/inferior, rather than, as it were, chalking an opinion on a wall and then running away. There is much to discuss, and both of us could learn some things to our profit.
As for Sitchin, I regard him much as I regard Erik von Danneken [sp?].
I return your welcome salute.
MORGANITE
I didn't change my stance... I didn't run away. I had to go to work. Will be back tomorrow.
Anxiously we await your return.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura) :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by HANK
HANK, I DO NOT THINK THE DEMONS ARE CALLED BY NAME AS TO WHAT THERE PARTICULAR CURSES IN HER LIFE WERE... BUT, HERE IS WHAT I HAVE FOUND. Mark 16:9
[ ((The most reliable early manuscripts and other ancient witnesses do not have Mark 16:9-20.)) ] When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had driven seven demons. Luke 8:2
And also some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases: Mary (called Magdalene) from whom seven demons had come out;
Luke 8:1-3 (in Context) Luke 8 (Whole Chapter)
Luke 10:17
The seventy-two returned with joy and said, "Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name." HOPE THIS HELPS.
SO WHERE IS THE RESPONSE??
From: "Ask Me Help Desk" <[email protected]> Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 01:49:37 -0400
Hello STONY,
Starman has just replied to a discussion you have subscribed to entitled
"Demons:" in the Religion forum of Ask Me Help Desk.
Do NOT reply to this email. No one will see it.
To see Starman's response and to respond yourself click here:
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/religi...-8785-new.html
There may be other replies also, but you will not receive any more
Notifications until you visit the forum again.
Yours,
Ask Me Help Desk team
Very odd. I have no clue. I'll assume for now an anomale. Let us know at Feedback or Forum Help if it happens again.
His notification pointed to this thread where there is no Starman posting at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morganite
You are right. I just tried the link myself and it just brings you right back here to the same message. From now on maybe I should store copies on my computer to be on the safe side. It's a bit frustrating to see time and effort disappear like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
BTW
I'll try to repost an answer later in order to contribute to the discussion as I had before.
Come to think of it I really don't recall posting a response to this question! LOL
According to the inspired scriptures the demons are angels who joined Satan in his rebellion against God. Angels are spirit creatures who were created before the creation off our material universe.Quote:
Originally Posted by HANK
Job 38:4-7
A Study On Angels
So they are definitely superior to man. However, their rebellion deprived them of God's blessings and led to mental degradation. This is seen in their sadistically harassing susceptible humans.
The woman who was freed from their influence was Mary Magdalene.
demons
... through Jesus' name His disciples also cast out demons on many occasions, Matt... of the week, He first appeared to Mary Magdalene, from whom He had cast out seven demons...
demons
BTW
Jesus and his apostles did not attribute every illness to demonic influence.
Mark 5:
25And a certain woman, which had an issue of blood twelve years,
26And had suffered many things of many physicians, and had spent all that she had, and was nothing bettered, but rather grew worse,
27When she had heard of Jesus, came in the press behind, and touched his garment.
28For she said, If I may touch but his clothes, I shall be whole.
29And straightway the fountain of her blood was dried up; and she felt in her body that she was healed of that plague.
30And Jesus, immediately knowing in himself that virtue had gone out of him, turned him about in the press, and said, Who touched my clothes?
31And his disciples said unto him, Thou seest the multitude thronging thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?
32And he looked round about to see her that had done this thing.
33But the woman fearing and trembling, knowing what was done in her, came and fell down before him, and told him all the truth.
34And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague.
Notice that Jesus referred to it as an illness.
Stony,
You might find it by looking at all the post pages on this thread mad by Starman.
I sometimes have to search to find responses to me.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
So you don't believe that the Bible is the word of God. Please look up and read the prophecies dealing ONLY with Messiah. You will find that there were 30 obvious ones (more if you are familiar with the Bible) fulfilled in Jesus life, most between the betrayl of Judas and the resurrecton of Jesus. Now you do the math! What are the odds against all these detailed prophecies just happening?
Is belief a matter of mathematics, or is it more?Quote:
Originally Posted by galveston
It's more, much more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morganite
The math is interesting. It may help as a stepping stone to belief, but that is still not faith. Religious faith goes beyond belief. A true strong faith is belief trust and a knowing that is very personal.
And example is though I cannot scientifically prove that God exists, I know he does.
If a person insists on disbelief no poof is adequate. If a person have faith no proof is necessary.
It sounds a bit like double talk, but that's the way it is.
Peace and kindness,:) :) :)
Fred (arcura)
It hasn't been scientifically proven that God doesn't exist either.
Anyone can cast out demons, anyone who believes they can.
I remove demons from people often. I have no power over them, but my faith in God, the warmth of the holy spirit that lives with in me, and the belief that when Jesus says you can do it to, so I can.
If we want to believe in Angels and protectors we must also believe in Demons and fallen Angels.
The most cunning thing the forces have done, is spread the belief that they don't exist.
Homecoming
Spiritremoval.com
Homecoming,
Jesus said that it takes faith and much prayer to cast out demons.
I would be interested in reading about some of the "often" many casting out of demons episodes you have experienced.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
Or that they are something other than what they really are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Homecoming
THESE ARE THE VERSES IN QUESTION... Mark 16:9
[ ((The most reliable early manuscripts and other ancient witnesses do not have Mark 16:9-20.)) ] When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had driven seven demons.
Mark 16:8-10 (in Context) Mark 16 (Whole Chapter)
Luke 8:2
And also some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases: Mary (called Magdalene) from whom seven demons had come out;
Luke 8:1-3 (in Context) Luke 8 (Whole Chapter)
THERE IS NO MENTION OF WHO OR WHAT THE DEMONS WERE OR NAMED.
HOPE THIS ANSWERES YOUR QUESTION.
Hello,
There is no doubt in my mind and heart that demons certainly do exist. If anyone can prove otherwise, then please feel free to try. These “demons” are actual persons, real personalities? Or are they mere forces of evil in man, as some say? Let no one be deceived into thinking they are not actual persons. The Bible corroborates what has been said about the dangers involved in witchcraft and gives us definite identification of the demons. It shows that the demons are spirit persons, chief of whom is Satan the Devil. Some may deny his existence, which makes them more vulnerable to his deceptions. Belief in God’s Word is a safeguard, “that we may not be overreached by Satan, for we who believe what that Word says, are not ignorant of his designs.” 2 Cor. 2:11.
The Bible makes it very clear that Satan is the archenemy of God and man. God’s Son, who had been alongside his Father in heaven before coming to earth, had seen and encountered the Devil personally. He called Satan “the father of the lie.” John 8:44; 17:5; Job 1:6; Jude 9
This one rebelled against God, challenging God’s sovereignty and inducing the original human pair to sin. Gen. 3:1-5
The apostle Peter wrote: “God did not hold back from punishing the angels that sinned, but, by throwing them into Tartarus, delivered them to pits of dense darkness to be reserved for judgment.” Peter goes on to speak of God’s destruction of that demon-corrupted pre-Flood world. 2 Pet. 2:4, 5 Jesus’ half brother Jude also spoke of the judgment passed on these angels, saying: “The angels that did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling place [God] has reserved with eternal bonds under dense darkness for the judgment of the great day.” Jude 6
They have not been allowed by God to have any further divine enlightenment and service assignment, and are restricted. There is evidence that, since the Flood, they have not been able to materialize, but, in order to indulge their perverted desire for fleshly connections, they have possessed or inhabited and controlled humans. When God’s Son Jesus Christ was on earth, he encountered such possessed persons in pitiful condition and healed them, expelling the demons.—Matt. 12:22; Mark 5:1-6.
The resurgence of witchcraft, voodooism and other forms of demonism in these times is truly a fulfillment of the Scriptural description of the “last days” of this system of things. The demons know they are soon to be destroyed, and so whip up violence and corruption in the earth in order to carry everyone to destruction with them, if possible
Are Demons for real? You bet they are! Demons are real. How else could the insatiable thirst for blood and destruction so evident among people today be explained? Humans naturally want to live in peace and happiness. But the demons promote badness and have the power to influence and corrupt the human mind.
Almighty God though without any doubts is more powerful than the demons. He offers his strength and protection against “the machinations of the Devil.” Ephesians 6:11-18
We need not have a morbid fear of the demons, for God promises: “Subject yourselves, therefore, to God; but oppose the Devil, and he will flee from you.” James 4:7.
Demons are powerful but never more powerful then God!Take care,
Hope12
The Bible tells us what these demons are in Genesis and other scriptures and expects us not to need a constant reminder of what they are every single time they are mentioned. That's why an explanation isn't included each time the word "demon" is used. If indeed such a constant reminder were used the reader might conclude that the author believed the readers to be mentally handicapped in some way since he seemed to be assuming that the readers were constantly forgetting the previously explained.
BTW
If reminders accompanied every mention of every event or personality the Bible would be so thick that you wouldn't be able to lift it.
So what percentage of the fault for the problems on earth would you attribute to man and what percentage would you attribute to the Devil and his demons?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hope12
Demon possession?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hope12
M:)RGANITE
Quote:
Originally Posted by celtearth
Good questions. What is your take on them?
M:)RGANITE
LOL - Try having it in separate volumes small enough for a normal person to carry. Size and weight were NOT considerations in pulling together the documents from which the Bible is composed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starman
The Bible is chock full of reminders.
There are twenty reminders to repent in the Old T, and twenty two in the New T.
Writers reminded readers about what was important at the time. It doesn't always have the answer to today's questions.
M:)RGANITE
This Is Another One Of Those Verses That Gets Lost In The Translation. As A Jew Speaking Hebrew To Another Jew It Would Read More Like This, "submit Yourself Therefore First To God And Resist The Devil And He Will Run In Holy Terror." There's A Bit More Power And Strength In Its Original Version.
Quote:
LOL - Try having it in separate volumes small enough for a normal person to carry. Size and weight were NOT considerations in pulling together the documents from which the Bible is composed.
The Bible is chock full of reminders.
There are twenty reminders to repent in the Old T, and twenty two in the New T.
Writers reminded readers about what was important at the time. It doesn't always have the answer to today's questions.
There is a difference between a definition for definition's sake and moral reminders.
In any case, not all reminders are unnecessary.
Necessary reminders are a demonstration of our heavenly father's concern for our well being. The reason we are reminded of moral obligations is because as imperfect humans we have a tendency to conveniently forget in order to live what we might consider a less restricted life. Since God knows our sinful nature:
Romans 7:14-20 (King James Version)
14For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
-he reminds us as one would remind a child which tends to stray far from his parents because that is the child's nature. So we have to be constantly reminding the child in order to protect him from himself.
The original which was spoken in Aramaic but written in Greek says only that the Satan will run away. It says nothing about terror holy or otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by STONY
M:)RGANITE
These last post are very interesting to me.
Please continue.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hope12
Why do people hate each other?
Morganite asked:
Demon possession?
Demon possession is not the main way that Satan and his demons operate.
They take a much more subtle approach in order to turn minds away from correct thinking. Fomenting Nationalistic propaganda, for example, in which the future of mankind is described as being dependent on man and not on God is one way of turning men's minds from God's Kingdom.
Daniel 2:44
And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever.
In trhat way they also propagate the first rebellion in Eden by having mankind continue in its self confident way to seek total intedependence from its creator.
Jeremiah 10:23
O LORD, I know the way of man is not in himself; It is not in man who walks to direct his own steps.
They also feign to be what they are not in order to spread the original lie that man does not die if he chooses to sin.
Genesis 3:4
Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die.
Additionally, they concoct false doctrines hoping in that way to do as much damage as possible before their allotted time is up. This makes them manslayers since sin leads to death and they try to get people to sin via false worship.
John 8:44
... When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.
All these tactics reinforce one another and have a cumulative negative effect on human behavior than an occasional possession.
Morganite,
The Only Response I Can Give You Is We Had 2 Different Teachers. I Choose To Believe The Translation That Someone Else [my Teacher] Used Is The Result Of Their Legwork In Studying The Word. Btw, The Teacher I Am Referring To Is Kenneth Copeland. Maybe You've Heard Of Him... he Has Tons More Resources
And Study Materials Than I Do. Once At Hebrew University In Jerusalem, I Saw The Dead Sea Scroll; Book Of Isaiah Under Heavy Glass. And, We All Learn At Different Rates And Abilities. As Much As To Say, If I Knew Everything There Would Be No More Reason To Study. That My Friend Is A Boat We All Ride In.
Starman,
Toss Satan inspired temptation into that pot and you have a wicked stew to brew.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)
| All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:29 PM. |