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People throughout the centuries have talked about and looked forward to an Afterlife -- Happy Hunting Grounds, Nirvana, Heaven, Valhalla, Paradise. etc. The older I get and the closer I get to death, the more interested I become in an Afterlife and wonder what it really will be like.
That's a surprising comment coming from a person who considers herself to be a Christian. What brought this on?
I'm trying to liven up this site!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
You do understand that it has nothing to do with (afterlife) going to live in heaven.
It has everything to do with God coming to live in/with you. God in You (here on earth). Not - as in; "we go to live in heaven coming into the afterlife." There is only life. There is no "afterlife."
Life = Jesus. It's that same life, as he lived and died and rose again...one and the same life. God has given us a messiah. He has given us his life. Jesus is a man - Jesus (as a simple man) needed the holy spirit before he could start his ministry...as a man, we need that same Spirit in order to live that same "life" that Jesus already lived.
Too many Christians believe they have to couple Science with Scripture...unbeknownst to them; believing that Science holds the keys to life. Believing there is a scientific method, scientific reason, and scientific explanation. Scientific Formula in Creating Life... there well maybe? Building, creating, or growing a human Body is Not life!That seems to be the story of your "life." Liven up your life...with what?Quote:
I'm trying to liven up this site!!!!!
Therefore, waltero, after we have been resurrected, we will still be here on this Earth? And then we will live here on Earth, living a sinless life, showing Christ's love all the time to everyone?
Liven up this site (not my life, which is actually very lively) and keep it from being shut down.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
It appears Walter is angry again. We never really know why.
Well, yeah there IS an afterlife. Most of us who have lived on this Earth have died or will die. Afterlife is the life we live once we've been resurrected.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
And I don't believe those who have died are senseless. I've heard from our deceased son a number of times, so much so that I am keeping a journal about it. And Athos has given me several surprising and very obvious nudges, the most recent one being this afternoon.
Gotta go with WG on this one. The afterlife would be the life AFTER this life, so plainly it does exist. I'm not real sure what Walter's objection is.
I'm wondering where God is going to put us all. And how will I find my friends and relatives in that crowd? And will we be on a pristine Earth?
That's all the second level stuff.
Don't you understand: it is that same life.Quote:
Afterlife is the life we live once we've been resurrected.
Appearences can be deceiving, just as the two of you are deceiving yourselves.Quote:
It appears Walter is angry again
WG -- Afterlife is the life we live once we've been resurrected.
Yes, that's what I said!Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
Would you just stop?Quote:
Yes, that's what I said!
I'm afraid you have little to know Idea of what that life is, or what it is I'm talking about.Quote:
the more interested I become in an Afterlife and wonder what it really will be like.
In short; The two become one. Those that claim to have Christ Jesus, have already made the transition. They have already died...they will not die again.
And don't give me any of this - well you know what I mean malarkey. Jesus said Lazarus was asleep. The disciples didn't understand, so he told them plainly...Lazarus is dead. Jesus lived the life - so we don't have to. Jesus died a murderous death - so we don't have to. Enoch walked with God and was taken up. How much different was he vs the Israelites when they heard the voice of God?
It's not about us - it's not about us going to heaven in the afterlife. It's about God coming to earth to live his life with you.
So, waltero, your conclusion (in plain English and understandable terms) is....
It's not about us - it's not about us going to heaven in the afterlife. It's about God coming to earth to live his life with you.
What's it going to be like? And I knew this man, if in a body or if without the body, I do not know. 2 Corinthians 12:3
You are thinking carnally.
God HAS been living with me and in me since I was born!Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
No, that's what YOU are doing!Quote:
You are thinking carnally.
If believing the Bible is being deceived, then I plead guilty.Quote:
just as the two of you are deceiving yourselves.
As to a life after this one, Jesus had this to say. "Don’t let your heart be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me. 2 In my Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I am going to prepare a place for you? 3 If I go away and prepare a place for you, I will come again and take you to myself, so that where I am you may be also." Now I realize you frequently seem to place but little value on the Bible, but it does certainly seem that you see this differently than Jesus did.
Even the text you quoted does not support you. "And I knew this man, if in a body or if without the body, I do not know. 2 Corinthians 12:3." You did not give the entire quote because, I suppose, it does not support your ideas. "2 I know a man in Christ who was caught up to the third heaven fourteen years ago. Whether he was in the body or out of the body, I don’t know; God knows. 3 I know that this man—whether in the body or out of the body I don’t know; God knows— 4 was caught up into paradise and heard inexpressible words, which a human being is not allowed to speak." Very plainly Paul was not on this earth in that experience. He was in a "third heaven" which he referred to as "Paradise".
Walter, your basic problem here is that you expect us to agree with your beliefs simply because they are your beliefs. I hope you realize that you must have far more than that.
Yes, we do already have the life of Christ. That is not the issue at all.
@JL
You are upside down. Paul was saying that life is not a matter of the flesh. He mentioned that [a man in Christ] was caught up to the third heaven fourteen years ago. Being in his body he did not know because his life is in Jesus, and his body doesn't exist. He could not tell the difference because he did not live according to the flesh.Do not love this World or the things of this World. We do not belong to this world. We belong to the Kingdom of Heaven (try convincing others of that fact)...believe it.Quote:
You are thinking carnally.
No, that's what YOU are doing!
. You go with her. I'll go with God. :-PQuote:
Gotta go with WG on this one
Paul's body did not exist??? Just nonsensical.Quote:
Being in his body he did not know because his life is in Jesus, and his body doesn't exist.
I seriously wish you would, but to go with God you have to go with the Bible. That is the very thing you are unwilling to do. Still, I do hope to see you go in that direction.Quote:
I'll go with God.
Well, it would seem that Walter has disappeared again. It does get frustrating to try and have a discussion with a person who does not seem to like having his ideas questioned.
A discussion doesn't include criticisms and put-downs of the other person(s). (Yes, I'm guilty of that too.) We should go with comments/questions such as, "Please explain" and "What evidence do you have?".Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
There is no discussion between us. I simply say something and you thwart it as nonsense. You simply don't understand what it is I am saying.Quote:
It does get frustrating to try and have a discussion
Take WG for instance; "you're thinking carnally." - "No I'm not, you are."
Okay, let me explain. (WG)"I wonder what the afterlife will be like." That is her Carnal body speaking. I tell you it will be much like it is (spiritually)in the here and now. Your body won't matter, and your carnality is non-existent...because in this life, we have put off the flesh (died to self, to the carnal nature).
Same thing with Paul (when he was caught up) His carnal flesh was irrelevant. He didn't know, he didn't care whether he was in his body or not...It went unnoticed... non-existent.
I believe I mentioned Enoch - He walked with God. When walking with God, you will not be swayed one way or the other. You are walking with God and all else is non-material.
I'm surprised neither of you picked up an argument when I mentioned that Jesus was only able to start his ministry once he gained the Holy Spirit...and here we have WG telling us God has been with her since she was Born. Yes, and I believe God was with Jesus before he was conceived...yet it means nothing until you receive the Holy Spirit.
I come on this site every now and again to try and set you straight. You're constantly getting into these Carnal arguments trying to convince each other...
Tomder55 posts keep me coming back to this site...keeps me informed.
Every now and then I read one of your two posts and feel I should interject.
@jlisenbe: You sound like a Democrat when you keep saying that nobody here has ever posted anything of that nature. Just like a Dem, every time somebody mentions a fact, they simply respond - "Nope," no it isn't, isn't true.
The fact is, both of you have entertained the possibility of Adom being... When Athos was talking about being born of a sinful nature, he mentioned that God had to be married to Mother Mary in order to impregnate Her.
How is anybody able to converse with somebody who doesn't even remember a discussion they were involved in, much less deny it?
But that's not what you said. You claimed, "...his body doesn't exist," so you need to agree with yourself before you post. His body was never, "nonexistent".Quote:
Same thing with Paul (when he was caught up) His carnal flesh was irrelevant. He didn't know, he didn't care whether he was in his body or not...It went unnoticed... non-existent.
I will be charitable and say that you are greatly mistaken when you suggest I have "entertained" the idea of Adam being non-binary, or that I "keep saying that nobody here ever posted anything of that nature." I never said any such thing about "nobody here", and I have never suggested Adam was non-binary. Never happened, so please stop with the fake news. As for Athos, he is dead and gone, and I certainly have no intention of defending his statements.Quote:
You sound like a Democrat when you keep saying that nobody here has ever posted anything of that nature. Just like a Dem, every time somebody mentions a fact, they simply respond - "Nope," no it isn't, isn't true.
The fact is, both of you have entertained the possibility of Adom being... When Athos was talking about being born of a sinful nature, he mentioned that God had to be married to Mother Mary in order to impregnate Her.
That is your opinion, but the Bible never says, "When walking with God, you will not be swayed one way or the other. You are walking with God and all else is non-material." It is an unbiblical teaching. Now if you want to say that the spiritual is of a much greater importance, then I would agree completely with that, but as you often seem to do, you take the point much too far. But if you really believe what you said, then try doing without air and food for a month and see what happens. After all, that is merely that "non-material" stuff. Right?Quote:
I believe I mentioned Enoch - He walked with God. When walking with God, you will not be swayed one way or the other. You are walking with God and all else is non-material.
You continue to live in the material world. When you simply entertain the hypothesis (WG, Athos, etc.) you fall into error.
There is no life outside of Jesus. We do not live according to this world and its desires. This world and everything attributed to it is going to die.What does that matter? See what happens, why don't you tell me what happens?Quote:
But if you really believe what you said, then try doing without air and food for a month and see what happens.
You're living, thinking carnally. A Christian knows what will happen and would not be afraid...such as you are.
Don't be afraid. Let it go.
As do you and every other human being.Quote:
You continue to live in the material world.
With this statement, I think you are correct. It's when you go bonkers and suggest that the body does not exist that you get into trouble.Quote:
There is no life outside of Jesus. We do not live according to this world and its desires. This world and everything attributed to it is going to die.
You are cooking up stories again. I've said nothing about being afraid. Please learn to be truthful. It is just silly for me to have to correct your fables over and over again.Quote:
A Christian knows what will happen and would not be afraid...such as you are.
Don't be afraid. Let it go.
What does this mean? -- "entertain the hypothesis"Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
What will happen?Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
WG, I think he is referring to the made up story that you or I considered Adam to be non-binary, or that God (or someone) married Mary. He has been told repeatedly that I have not said that, and I don't believe you have either. I don't know why he persists in it. His latest maneuver was to suggest that Athos said it. Who knows?
I put on my librarian hat and did a bit of research in this site -- and found this, posted on July 17, 2022, a response by WG:Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
"Adam and Eve used their God-given free will to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. And then the universe became subject to endless possibilities, including the fact that both sex and gender are now on a spectrum."
I can't find anything non binary posted by Athos except comments about trans women competing in sports on women's teams.
And no, I've never considered Adam as being non binary. Wikipedia defines non binary as: "Non-binary gender is an umbrella term for gender identities that are not male or female, such as androgynous, agender, bigender, or genderqueer."
It seems from reading the Genesis 1-3, the Creation story, that God had plans that a human male creation and a human female creation would mate and produce offspring so the Earth would begin to be populated.
I have trouble navigating around this site. It takes me a long time to find previous posts.
I remember all of you going on about something to do with; The nature of Sin and being Born in the nature of sin. Trying to figure out If Jesus was born in Sin. HE mentioned (somewhere along the way) that in order for the Holy Spirit to impregnate Mary, God had to be married to Mother Mary.
I also remember the two of you going off about this or that being nonbinary or binary or whatever. I interjected that it was binary...Got a thank you from JL and we left it at that.
Maybe Neither of you was suggesting that being true or false. You might have simply been yammering on about nothing (in your mind). Do you remember when the Sadducees asked Jesus a question? They asked him a question about something they didn't even believe in.
You are so involved with your mind that you can't see straight. Your education has ruined you.
Nope, I know how to search and navigate. Those "goings off" did not happen, or at least not the way you remember. Will continue to search.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
WG is right. I don't know who had those discussions, or if they even occurred, but it did not involve me suggesting Adam was non-binary or the silly suggestion that Jesus was born in sin and God marrying Mary.
You really need to learn to tell the truth before speculating on education ruining others. What caused you to start posting so much fake news?
I never said you (you specifically) suggested anything of the sort.Quote:
but it did not involve me suggesting Adam was non-binary or the silly suggestion that Jesus was born in sin and God marrying Mary.
The Jesus Born in or Out of Sin was me making reference to the discussion that was taking place...to help you find the thread. WG going off about nonbinary, Alagory, unconditional love, etc. Is her usual stance.
You have entertained such discussions. And you might have simply (for the sake of argument) entertained the premise.
There was a discussion where Athos mentioned God being married to Mother Mary - the discussion went on and nobody picked up on it. Much the same when DW asked a question and I jumped right in, asking if it was an honest question. You all declared I was ridiculous and that it was 100% an honest and valid question...when two threads down, DW said (unbeknownst to all) that it wasn't even a question! It was right there in black and white, I quoted said post and you all simply acted like it didn't matter what he said.
Do you realize people jump into these discussions not reading the 20 pages before a statement is made?
Why entertain such silly discourse?
Walter, you most certainly did.Quote:
I never said you (you specifically) suggested anything of the sort.
"What gets me is when the two of you go off on some cockamamy discussions about God married Mary, Adom was non-binary."
"The fact is, both of you have entertained the possibility of Adom being..."
Thankfully, you have now seen your error. Your statements are completely false.
You have much to learn about honesty. Nobody picked up on it? Well, maybe that was because nobody agreed with it. Anyone here will tell you that I was no ally of Athos. We disagreed far more than we agreed. Learn to be accurate in your observations,.Quote:
You have entertained such discussions. And you might have simply (for the sake of argument) entertained the premise.
There was a discussion where Athos mentioned God being married to Mother Mary - the discussion went on and nobody picked up on it.
Another wild tale. Not only have I not kept saying that "nobody here ever posted anything of that nature," I never even said it once. My statement concerned WG, me, and no one else. It had nothing to do with "nobody here". If you really think you can, "come on this site every now and again to try and set you straight," then maybe you need to set yourself straight first.Quote:
@jlisenbe: You sound like a Democrat when you keep saying that nobody here has ever posted anything of that nature. Just like a Dem, every time somebody mentions a fact, they simply respond - "Nope," no it isn't, isn't true.
You didn't use the word "Nature." but you most certainly said it.Quote:
"nobody here ever posted anything of that nature," I never even said it once
When talking to a flat Earhter, DO you find it entertaining? Is it at all educational?
Or maybe you wouldn't even attempt talking to a flat earther? My point is simple; How are you going to explain to somebody that hell is real? Have you ever been to hell? Do you believe in hell...I mean believe in hell the same as you believe in God?
You are trying to convince others because you need to convince yourself. We all need to seek a personal relationship with God. It has been said that you can become closer to the Bible than you can to your own wife. You must believe the Bible is the seed of life...beyond all understanding. Your flesh is of little value. Discard the flesh and live in the spirit. when living in the Spirit, you will not be concerned with air, food, or time. Time has no relevance, your death means nothing.
So you are saying you don't understand the Bible?Quote:
You must believe the Bible is the seed of life...beyond all understanding.
I believe in hell because Jesus clearly taught there is a hell.
I said it, but I didn't use it? Do you realize what a contradictory statement that is? And I don't say that to be mean, but in hopes that you will see how incoherent sometimes you are. At any rate, the key element was "nobody here", not the word "nature". Please pay attention.Quote:
You didn't use the word "Nature." but you most certainly said it.
If the keyword was not nature, then how does it become contradictory?Quote:
At any rate, the key element was "nobody here", not the word "nature".
That's what we were talking about. And yes you did say it. I was amazed that you said it when you said it. And it appears to me every time you say something to that same effect..." I never said that"...nor has anybody on this site.Quote:
The key element was "nobody here
Quote by JL (jlisenbe); "No one here has stated that or said anything to that effect."
Topic: Quora question from an agnostic/atheist regarding the Book of Revelation.
post 2:10
This would not be the First time you said this.
You are involved in so many discussions on this Forum, that you Couldn't possibly remember what has been said by you or others.
You had claimed, "What gets me is when the two of you go off on some cockamamy discussions about God married Mary, Adom was non-binary." I replied, "No one here has ever claimed either of those to be the case, so I have no idea where you got that from." Neither WG or I (the two of you) ever said such a thing. Period. Then you tried to claim it was Athos, but you don't really know if that's true either. For that matter, it seems you can't point out any place where anyone here ever made that claim.
As to the hundreds of others who used to post here, I don't know what they have said, but since the topic involved only, "the two of you", then your statement is wrong. I don't think either of us ever said anything of that sort. Your imagination has gotten away with you.
Nearly three years ago I posted, "You flippant attitude is unappealing. There are no "non-binary types" in the Bible. It plainly condemns sex outside of marriage and plainly defines marriage as between a man and a woman." Now how you got from there to me suggesting that Adam was non-binary must have been quite the adventure. WG's claim has been that after Genesis 3, the whole non-binary deal was set in motion. That might very well be true since sin does a lot of things, but it doesn't amount to her saying that Adam was non-binary. Yet even if it did, we discuss things here. It's what we do. If you don't like the discussion, then don't engage in it.
And why we are even talking about this is beyond me.
You just said you had never posted such a statement...Here it is.Quote:
JL Quote: Not only have I not kept saying that "nobody here ever posted anything of that nature," """I never even said it once""" (At any rate, the key element was "nobody here", not the word "nature".)
JL Quote:"No one here has stated that or said anything to that effect."
JL posted - quote: "No one here has stated that or said anything to that effect." - And he continues to believe he never said any such thing - JL posted - Quote: "I never even said it once." end Quote.Quote:
Topic: Quora question from an agnostic/atheist regarding the Book of Revelation.
post 2:10
You continue to waver JL. Now you're back to your original "nobody here has ever said such a thing".
As long as it's settled in your mind...This is your Carnal mind speaking.
I'm sure if I did some research I could find it. But the fact of the matter is - your response would be the same as you are doing here. Like I said before, and keep on saying...You can't convince (not in the way in which you think) an unbeliever.
Your heated discussions have run you ragged.
I have never once said that Adam was non-binary. What is so difficult about that for you to understand? I am wavering about nothing.
I don't think you can do the research, but if you did, you would find nothing from me. (Hint: I've already done it.)Quote:
I'm sure if I did some research I could find it.
In what way do you think I see it?Quote:
Like I said before, and keep on saying...You can't convince (not in the way in which you think) an unbeliever.
To this day, I cannot figure out what you are so upset about. This ("What gets me is when the two of you go off on some cockamamy discussions about God married Mary, Adom was non-binary.") can't be it since "the two of us" have not said that Adam was non-binary.
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