Ask Me Help Desk - Wait. WHO is in charge??

Wait. WHO is in charge??

Today's Greek reading brought me to something I never noticed before. In Luke 4:5 Satan says HE has authority over the nations/kingdoms of the Earth and they're his to give to whomever he chooses. Not God, Satan.

That kind of puts a very different spin on things when someone says "God put so and so in that office". Sounds like maybe it was the other guy?????

I haven't seen a single commentary tackle this question. I confess I've been reading that passage since I was 4 years old and never noticed this before. Anybody have any thoughts on it?

Check Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary for Luke 4.

Also, John 8:44(ESV) --

"...[Satan] was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies."

Rather interestingly, Jesus on 3 occasions refers to Satan as, "the ruler of the world".

“Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world shall be cast out. And I , if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself” (John 12:31-32).

“I will not speak much more with you, for the ruler of the world is coming, and he has nothing in Me; but that the world may know that I love the Father, and as the Father gave Me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go from here” (John 14:30-31).

“… and concerning judgment, because the ruler of the world has been judged” (John 16:11).

Now did that put him in a position of authority of the nations and kingdoms? One would seem to follow the other. Does he still hold that authority? Good question.

Look around you. Listen to parents dealing with their children in public, to Karens in stores, note shoplifters and road rage, find out how many people are incarcerated in your county jail, read and take note of the stories on the first four pages of your daily newspaper. Who seems to be in charge, God and His love or Satan and his negativity, his evil?

Look around you in a different fashion. Look at the many churches where the Gospel is preached and people are loved and helped. Look at the many food banks and pregnancy help centers run by churches and Christian organizations. Observe the multiplied millions of acts of kindness and love which occur everyday. Look at the thousands of people a week who commit their lives to Christ. Read just this one testimony I saw this morning from a former graduate of our program. "August 2, 2020 I graduated from Righteous Oaks Recovery Center and it’s been 2 1/2 years since I kicked the devil and alcohol to the curb! The road has not been easy but with the help of God and great family and friends it’s been a blessing. God has truly blessed me over the past 2 1/2 years!!! I Thank God every day for Righteous Oaks!"

Now who seems to be in charge? As someone once said, "Not an atom moves in the universe without God's permission."

2 Corinthians 4:4
...in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5 For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your bond-servants for Jesus’ sake. 6 For God, who said, “Light shall shine out of darkness,” is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.

God gave us free will, to do as we wish, to love or to hate. On this earth, WE are in charge!

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Check Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary for Luke 4.

Also, John 8:44(ESV) --

"...[Satan] was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies."

Except Jesus didn't contradict him. He only addressed the question of worship.

The whole "look around you" misses the question. It's not "what's going on," it's "who is the actual authority over this world and the nations that muck it up?"

Authority to do what?

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On this earth, WE are in charge!

You didn't give us that choice. "Who seems to be in charge, God and His love or Satan and his negativity, his evil?"

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Except Jesus didn't contradict him.

True. And I wonder if Satan, knowing who he was dealing with, would have bothered with lying about such a fundamental issue.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

You didn't give us that choice. "Who seems to be in charge, God and His love or Satan and his negativity, his evil?"

Think outside the box.

As opposed to you framing your options more carefully?

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

As opposed to you framing your options more carefully?

And you were a teacher???

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Today's Greek reading brought me to something I never noticed before.

Are you referring to the process of organizing thoughts and ideas within some established framework (“Greek philosophy”)?

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In Luke 4:5 Satan says HE has authority over the nations/kingdoms of the Earth

Satan is in the counsel of God. We know about how he goes to and from the Earth...

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and they're his to give to whomever he chooses.

God, Gave Man Dominion and authority. Man gives himself over to the powers that be - darkness/light. Saten would have no Authority or "power" if man didn't hand it over to him...same Holds true for the King of Kings, AKA Jesus. Often times God will use Evil to destroy itself.

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God gave us free will, to do as we wish,

If that is what you truly believe, you are already lost. Man Doesn't have free will...God is the only one who has free will. Thing is, you might think you're in charge. Jesus says we are slaves. Free will has more to do with being Created in his image...Free will is in the Image of God.

We are to give [All] Dominion and Authority to our Lord and savior...we are no longer in Charge.

God created heaven and Earth

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to do as we wish, to love or to hate. On this earth, WE are in charge!

You just explained how Humans are the creators of Hell on Earth!

Welcome back, Walter.

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Originally Posted by waltero

Man Doesn't have free will...God is the only one who has free will.

Genesis 3?

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God created heaven and Earth You just explained how Humans are the creators of Hell on Earth!

Yes, when they use their free will to do evil.

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Are you referring to the process of organizing thoughts and ideas within some established framework (“Greek philosophy”)?

No. DW is good enough with NT Greek that he reads the NT in that original language.

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Authority to do what?

He said it: to give them to whomever he pleases. The implications of that one statement seem enormous to me. I'm still sorting out what the rest of the questions are, never mind finding answers yet.

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Originally Posted by waltero

God created heaven and Earth You just explained how Humans are the creators of Hell on Earth!

And too often they are.

But sometimes Love wins out.

To reiterate what I said in an earlier post: "God gave us free will, to do as we wish, to love or to hate. On this earth, WE are in charge!"

https://apis.mail.yahoo.com/ws/v3/ma...ils=true&pid=3

Well said, WG.

(Added later.) I don't entirely agree or disagree with your final line. I do think we have some freedom of will, but I don't know how that relates to God's sovereignty. I would not say that I think WE are in charge. We certainly think we are, but I doubt it is as simple as that.

DW, Col. 1:13 might interest you in your thinking. "He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son."

But while we live on this earth, believers or not, we each daily make choices to show love or hate, to do good or do evil.

It's not quite that simple.

"We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin."

"15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it."

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it."

Escape clause? ("It's not MY fault! The devil made me do it!")

Take that up with Paul.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Take that up with Paul.

He must not have believed that God gave mankind free will. Paul: "I didn't want to do that but golly gee whiz sin got into me and made me do it. I had no choice."

So let's see. Paul, "must not have believed that God gave mankind free will," but you do. Do you really think we should take your view over his? What part of the NT did you write?

And you put your paraphrase of the Romans passage in quotation marks. Bad, bad, bad.

So who got the free will thing?

My take on it: God gave us free will (cf. Genesis 3) but He and Satan are constantly trying to influence us to do good or to do evil.

I don't think we have free will in the sense you see it. Non-Christians are subject to sin and under its control. That is a very clear teaching as was shown above. Jesus put it this way.

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Jesus returned, “Believe me when I tell you that every man who commits sin is a slave. For a slave is no permanent part of a household, but a son is. If the Son, then, sets you free, you are really free!

Only the Son can set a person free. So it's hard to understand. It's more than just being influenced by whatever kingdom we are living in. There is an element of control that is exercised.

I can choose to beat my young child or I can love him, read storybooks to him, take him on fun jaunts to parks and petting zoos. I can choose to gossip about my neighbor or I can invite her over for coffee and cookies and pleasant conversation. I can choose to take potshots at the neighborhood stray cat or I can humanely trap it and adopt it myself or take it to a nearby (well-run) cat shelter. The choice for each is mine.

We are ALL subject to sin, Christians as well as non-Christians. And even non-Christians can choose to love and not do evil.

So we are subject to sin, and yet we have free will? Very interesting theory.

Yes, we have the choice. Not a theory. It's reality.

Not a good one. We are subject to sin and yet have free will. Well…ok.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Not a good one. We are subject to sin and yet have free will. Well…ok.

You don't have free will?

Thanks to Jesus' love and sacrifice for us, we can ask Him for His help to say no to sin instead of yes.

Humans are either subject to sin or owners of free will. Can't have it both ways. Now I do agree with your final statement, but it only applies to those who trust Him as Savior.

What's your definition of free will?

When an individual has sole authority over his/her own decisions.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

When an individual has sole authority over his/her own decisions.

And all humans don't have free will?

Are humans subject to sin? You have said previously that people are. If that is true, and you said it is, then humans do not truly have free will, do they?

Outside of Christ, that is.

Having free will is totally different from being subject to sin. They are two different concepts, not synonymous or even related.

Free will eliminates being subject to anything other than self. Your position is illogical.