Hello. I wanted to get everyone's opinion about teaching the Bible in public school.

I just received the April 2nd issue of Time Magazine and there is an article about offering an elective class centered around the Bible. The article listed some pretty interesting information about the Bible - such as: it has never left the top seller's list, it is the most translated book ever. And did you know, that Shakespeare quoted the bible over 1300 times in his work. And it is thought to be one of the best books ever written.

Some will say that the decision on God is up to their child - "let them decide" but how can they if this is never introduced as an option?

What are you thoughts? Would you object if your child chose to take this class? If so, Why? Do you think that the Bible should be in schools?
If you are outside of the USA, what are the "rules" in your country for Church and State?

Personally, I think this was a thought provoking topic - I hope you agree!

Well yes I think that someone should be able to learn about the Bible if they wish as long as it is not forced for them to learn.

Children don't do much religion in most schools and having te opertunity there would bb a good thing

I believe teaching a Bible class in a public school is a great idea. There are philosophy classes taught that are mandatory! So you encounter the people who would say no one is going to force their child to read the Bible - make the course an elective. So, who is qualified to teach this course?

It should be an elective. Keep the separation of religion and state.

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Originally Posted by shygrneyzs

So, who is qualified to teach this course?

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The teacher that the article mentions (a H.S. teacher in Texas) is just that a H.S. Teacher.
Judging from the article, she puts it out there and then as a class they discuss the meaning.
I think if you got a, say, catholic priest or a baptist preacher - you would fall into a trap of they are teaching just the catholic or baptist take on the bible. I do think that you would need to get someone that has an understanding of the Bible to make the class worthwhile.
I would love to know the stats on school violence before the Bible was taken out of school as opposed to now. Is there a difference? Or with the media - the information is just more available?

Personally, I think this step is a great one. I believe that the Bible is our guide book on how to live.

Offering the Bible in school does open a door to offering other religious/cultural classes - Muslim, Buddhist, etc.. What do you think about having those classes available in school?

Why not have an introduction to religion where all religions get equal time? That way children can be exposed to the diversity that is out there.

I will honestly say that I am not versed in what other religions believe. I know what I believe. How much time would it take to completely study each religion? To get a good understanding?
The Bible alone as 66 books - all very indepth. I would like to see electives deticated to just the Bible and then if others become available - then there are more options.

Just an overview of each is enough. To do any in-depth study of all the bible's books one should send their child to bible school not public school.

When I was in high school, there was a state mandatory class called, "Religons of the World". We even had to take that, being in a Catholic high school. One of our parish priests taught the class, but he balanced it out with Friday field trips to the city's churches and visiting with the respective pastors of each denomination. Easy to do when you live in a small city of 7500 people. I don't know how the public school system taught the class but I know who taught it - the instructor who also taught Problems of Democracy, Sociology, and World History.

If you make a class on the study of The Bible an elective - you would not have to offer all the other religion's Bibles for study. You are not forcing anyone to take this elective, therefore you are not forcing a way of thought onto the student.

Before I had a child, I was sure that when that day came and it was time to send her to school - it would be to a private christian school. She is now in 1st grade at a public school. We live in a really small town with a brand new school and there really isn't good christian schools available. I could send her to catholic school - but we aren't catholic.
She has always been taught to say her blessing before she eats - so at lunch she would do so - until one of the teachers told her she couldn't. We were outraged. But, to solve the problem and not cause some big scene - we told her to just say it in her head.
But, shouldn't she be allowed, under her 1st amendment rights to say the blessing if she so chooses?
We send her to church on Wednesday nights and on Sunday mornings to get her "dose" of the bible from people who truly know how to teach it. And for some kids, that is all they get. Is it enough? Should that be a part of daily life?

Yes, your daughter has her first amendment rights to say grace. If she were Muslim, she would have her rights. If she were an athesist, she would have her rights. Call or write your Attorney General's office about this. If you get nowhere, there is always the ACLU.

I'm not american so the 1st amendment means nothing to me. As for something being part of your daily life that's up to you, outside of school. Remember that public school funds come from taxpayers of all religions not just christians.

Good Point - Do you know that in the states - over 68% of the population say they are Christian. So, does majority win?

That majority is dwindling, it should not win since it's not about majority either.

I went to a Roman Catholic Primary and Secondary school, and as such I was taught Religious Education from a very early age.

In Secondary school these lessons (much like shygrneyzs' post) were split up between different religions, I found this an amazing insight into both my own and other people's belief systems.

I think that most schools should teach religion on a whole, whether it is a religious school or not, then maybe the world would have the little bit more tolerance it needs!

BTW, the last bits of the Bible (where the 4 horsemen come and the world ends!) is one of the best things ever written! Kicks Harry Potter's bespectacled a$$ any day!

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

That majority is [URL="http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_prac2.htm"]dwindling[/URL.

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Why do you think that the numbers are dwindling?

A lot of people do not have religion in their daily lives - yet when a crisis happens - the first thing they ask is "Where was God?" Why is that?

"then maybe the world would have the little bit more tolerance it needs!"

Sometimes I think the world is to tolerant. We are all so concerned with being politically correct - not to upset the next guy, that I think we forget to stand up for what we believe in. Would anyone agree?

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Originally Posted by NowWhat

Why do you think that the numbers are dwindling?

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I'm sure there are many reasons, not just one. Perhaps people are thinking for themselves, many such as myself find it very divisive.

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Originally Posted by NowWhat

Alot of people do not have religion in their daily lives - yet when a crisis happens - the first thing they ask is "Where was God?" Why is that?

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Actually I don't believe that happens at all. It's similar to believers praying for a sick person and that person dies, where was God then?

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Originally Posted by NowWhat

Sometimes I think the world is to tolerant. We are all so concerned with being politically correct - not to upset the next guy, that I think we forget to stand up for what we believe in. Would anyone agree?

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I don't think that that's really tolerance, I just think that's just fearing the repercussions of speaking out and I think that this actually breeds intolerance.

Just to explain that point, if I don't like something that someone is doing, but I'm told I have to sit there and take it regardless, it's going to make me dislike it even more!

Whereas going back to my previous point, if I'm told WHY someone is doing something I don't like, I may understand it a bit more and tolerate it a little better!

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Originally Posted by NowWhat

Good Point - Do you know that in the states - over 68% of the population say they are Christian. So, does majority win?

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Our government is set up to protect the minority from the majority. Wait till your in the minorority on something and you might learn to value that.

My take is teach 1 teach all -- you want your god is our schools lets teach all faiths - Christianity /Muslim/ Judaism/ Hinduism/ wiccan /devil worship / non believers point of view / etc, and lets the kids pick which to follow -- how's that suit you? --

but I guess we will have to drop a few other courses like math to give them time for this.. -- Savage

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Originally Posted by TheSavage

but I guess we will have to drop a few other courses like math to give them time for this.. -- Savage

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I don't think we would have to drop anything. The courses discussed are possibly being offered as electives. Like Gym or Law, etc. So, can we not have both?
Are the other religions pushing to put in schools? And it really isn't religion going into school - it a study on the Bible - not one faiths take on it.

I think if a Bible study course does make it to our schools then the other religions will want equality. Which is fine. I think offering something like this produces a more educated person. And would teaching something that can help you live your life as a better person really be that bad? I mean, sure you're a whiz at math, but you suck as a human? I think I would rather be a better person any day.

To quote the article - To compare Shakespeare (which is readily available in H.S. English class) and the Bible
1) Beauty of Language - Shakespeare by a nose
2) Depth of subject matter - Toss up
3) Breadth of subject matter - The Bible
4) Numbers Published, translated, etc. - The Bible
5) Number of people martyred for - The Bible
6) Number of wars attributed to - The Bible
7) Solace and hope provided to billions - The Bible

All of these things, shouldn't our youth know why people are willing to die for what is written in this book? Why it has never left the best seller list? This is a big part of history -so why should it be left out of study?

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Originally Posted by NowWhat

I mean, sure your a whiz at math, but you suck as a human? I think I would rather be a better person any day.

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Studying the bible (or any religious text) does not make one a better person.

I guess, for me, the Bible is a guide book. Our instruction book on how to live. Every question we have about life and how to live in answered in the Bible.

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Originally Posted by NowWhat

Hello. I wanted to get everyone's opinion about teaching the Bible in public school.

I just received the April 2nd issue of Time Magazine and there is an article about offering an elective class centered around the Bible. The article listed some pretty interesting information about the Bible - such as: it has never left the top seller's list, it is the most translated book ever. And did you know, that Shakespeare quoted the bible over 1300 times in his work. And it is thought to be one of the best books ever written.

Some will say that the decision on God is up to their child - "let them decide" but how can they if this is never introduced as an option?

What are you thoughts? Would you object if your child chose to take this class? If so, Why? Do you think that the Bible should be in schools?
If you are outside of the USA, what are the "rules" in your country for Church and State?

Personally, I think this was a thought provoking topic - I hope you agree!

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Well, I believe that as long as its not forcing anyone, its OK. I myself am not a religious person but the subject of religion interests me very much and that anyone who is a religious person should have the right to learn about it. Although I think that its wrong that any other religion should be excluded.

I guess when I think of religion - I think about all the different types. Baptist, methodist, Catholic, Etc..
Each of these use the Bible - but each has a different take on it.
The potential class study that prompted this question would study the bible - not the separate religions.
And, I too, think that it would be wrong to exclude any other group.

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Originally Posted by NowWhat

I guess when I think of religion - I think about all the different types. Baptist, methodist, Catholic, Etc..
Each of these use the Bible - but each has a different take on it.
The potential class study that prompted this question would study the bible - not the seperate religions.
And, I too, think that it would be wrong to exclude any other group.

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And right there is the problem -- you did not mention any religion other than those based on YOUR book. You just basically refused to acknowledge all the other religions that are out there.

That is why religion needs to stay out of schools. -- Savage

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Originally Posted by NowWhat

I don't think we would have to drop anything. The courses discussed are possibly being offered as electives. Like Gym or Law, etc. So, can we not have both?
Are the other religions pushing to put in schools? And it really isn't religion going into school - it a study on the Bible - not one faiths take on it.

I think if a Bible study course does make it to our schools then the other religions will want equality. Which is fine. I think offering something like this produces a more educated person. And would teaching something that can help you live your life as a better person really be that bad? I mean, sure your a whiz at math, but you suck as a human? I think I would rather be a better person any day.

To quote the article - To compare Shakespeare (which is readily available in H.S. English class) and the Bible
1) Beauty of Language - Shakespeare by a nose
2) Depth of subject matter - Toss up
3) Breadth of subject matter - The Bible
4) Numbers Published, translated, etc. - The Bible
5) Number of people martyred for - The Bible
6) Number of wars attributed to - The Bible
7) Solace and hope provided to billions - The Bible

All of these things, shouldn't our youth know why people are willing to die for what is written in this book? Why it has never left the best seller list? This is a big part of history -so why should it be left out of study?

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I like your points here. The world we live in has been impacted so profoundly because of the Bible. How could there not be a class on it. I'm not saying teach doctrines from the Bible, just study its origins, authors, its influence world history, and so forth.

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Originally Posted by TheSavage

And right there is the problem -- you did not mention any religion other than those based on YOUR book. You just basically refused to acknowledge all the other religions that are out there.

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Actually, I wasn't refusing to acknowledge anything or anyone. I listed 3 off the top of my head (and the churches that are in my town) just to make a point.

And, quite frankly, I AM PROUD OF "MY" BOOK!

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Originally Posted by NowWhat

Good Point - Do you know that in the states - over 68% of the population say they are Christian. So, does majority win?

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Hello Now:

No, the majority doesn't win - not in this country anyway.

Each one of us has rights granted under the Constitution. That's each ONE as in YOU, an individual. Even if ALL the rest of the people, and I mean ALL 3 million of them (a majority for sure), voted to remove your rights, they couldn't.

And, that's the way it should be.

excon

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DUKE-OF-URL disagrees: this socity was founded abased on Chrisrian beleifs

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So many problems with your comment:
1. too many misspellings to mention - stay in school
2. read up on the use of the commenting/reputation system in use here
3. my society was absolutely not based on 'chrisian' values, maybe your close circle of friends but not society in general not in the US nor in Canada.

Please, Correct me if I am wrong - And I am sure you guys will.
Wasn't the US founded by those fleeing the Catholic Church? They wanted the right to choose their religion?

The puritans came here to get away from the church of England and I am sure individuals came here due to religion on their own -- but most of the settlers came for the top god -- money -- Savage

Well they were fleeing the Church of England, which is technically Catholic, but not to be confused with the Roman Catholic (PROPER Catholics! Lol!) Church!

I don't think it should be taught in schools anymore, there is too much diversity we can't please everyone! I believe in God. I would love for my beliefs to be taught in school. Only because they might teach something I forgot about or misunderstand. There are too many people that don't believe what I believe, so we are down to whether to have a class about every religion or none! I choose none, most people that are religious take care of their beliefs with their own church and family these days. I believe in the separation of church and state. When they took prayer out of school, we should have prayed twice as hard at home and let other people with different beliefs be around all of us with our beliefs without feeling like they are different in a bad way. Some people just make people feel like they are wrong when they are just a little different than them! I have never really spoken or thought about this subject for more than this small amount of time but the more I Write down the more I want to keep changing my answer. I am going to quit here and think about it longer. Who knows I might not agree with what I said in just a few minutes. Now I am completely confusing myself. Goodbye for now!

I am in the uk and my daughter goes to a state school that is not linked to a church, but they do learn about the bible and christianity there. I do have issues with it as it is taught as fact at her school whether intentionally or not, my daughter perceives it as fact. I on the other hand am atheist, so try to get her to question the faith (she is only five!) I have always let my kids make up their own minds about religion, so I don't tell her it is all a load of poppycock, I just ask her to consider things a bit more. I have also tried to give her other opinions on life, through friends who are pagan, and we visit a buddhist temple from time to time, and school also teach the children the basics of hindu, muslim and sikh religions (though not in the same detail as christianity).

I think religion should not be taught as fact, I have no issue with the teaching about the bible, but it should be treated as any other book is, the works of shakespeare are not treated as an autentic look at life in the era, they are taught as stories and plays. I think the same principle should be applied to the teaching of religion. Teach about it, don't preach it, don't assume it is the truth. Let the kids make up their own minds on the sunject.

That's just my opinion!

Although I think it would be a good thing. I don't think the Bible should be taught in public school.

1] public = tax dollars = government. 1st Amendment ".. no establishment of religion..."

2] How and who would teach the Bible? There are so many Christian denominations that differ on various doctrinal issues.

3] The Bible can be taught by parent[s], relatives, going to Church, Sunday school etc..
I would not depend on public school to teach my children about God and Christian
values.

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Originally Posted by NowWhat

Some will say that the decision on God is up to their child - "let them decide" but how can they if this is never introduced as an option?

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According to the Bible a parent has a responsibility for providing guidance in religious matters. If a parent leaves it up to the child he is being negligent.

I see nothing wrong with it. Long as its optional... people are not forced to do it. They should be able to choose.

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Originally Posted by Squiffy

I am in the uk and my daughter goes to a state school that is not linked to a church, but they do learn about the bible and christianity there. I do have issues with it as it is taught as fact at her school whether intentionally or not, my daughter perceives it as fact. I on the other hand am atheist, so try to get her to question the faith (she is only five!) I have always let my kids make up their own minds about religion, so I dont tell her it is all a load of poppycock, I just ask her to consider things a bit more. I have also tried to give her other opinions on life, through friends who are pagan, and we visit a buddhist temple from time to time, and school also teach the children the basics of hindu, muslim and sikh religions (though not in the same detail as christianity).

I think religion should not be taught as fact, I have no issue with the teaching about the bible, but it should be treated as any other book is, the works of shakespeare are not treated as an autentic look at life in the era, they are taught as stories and plays. I think the same principle should be applied to the teaching of religion. Teach about it, dont preach it, dont assume it is the truth. Let the kids make up their own minds on the sunject.

Thats just my opinion!

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I would be very surprised to learn that the curriculum for religious education in UK schools taught anything as 'fact' except the elements of each religion and what they believe in certain areas. I have been an active participant on working parties and standing conferences for establishing such curriculum in local authories in the UK and at no time was one religion given ascendency over any other faith. Religious education operates at a deliberate, calculated , and distinct level from religious indoctrination, and presumably it is indoctrination rather than education that arouses your concern as a parent.

The UK is a good example of a multi-ethnic and multi-faith society that works very well. It is in order to build bridges of understanding between faiths and faith based communities that RE is brought to bear. It is first, foremost, and last, to provide information about what each of the major faiths believe, and to explain some of their practices, especially those that are not well known. Indoctrination in a particular faith or in none, as in your case, belongs to the home, chapel, synagogue, mosque, etc.

M:)RGANITE

Squiffy
You have to realize that Religion, whether it be Christianity, Hindi, Buddhism, Seik, or Baha'i, is a fact and must be taught as a fact. I am even beginning to believe that because of the way that many people espouse Atheism it should almost be treated as a religion. (Italics just my own opinion)

Morganite
The curriculum you describe in the UK sounds great. If we had something like it in the US real tolerance, instead of politically correctness, might break out.

Speaking to the OP:
A class on the Bible (as an elective and only as an elective) would probably be a good thing. As would a class on the Koran under the same conditions.

One of the problems going on in this nation right now is the fact that educators (in general) seem to have really taken the "separation of church and state" to only apply to Christianity and "in the interest of diversity" started introducing Wicca and Islam etc. to the curriculum. This tends to send the message that there is something wrong with Christianity. If diversity is really the issue why not quit excluding the belief of a large portion of our population?

It is taught in such a way that my daughter, who is five, believes every word that is said about the bible and jesus as fact. As I said whether they intend it to be taught as fact I don't know, but the way they are teaching it, at least in my daughters school, the kids are seeing it as being as true as anything else, as it is their teacher teaching it. Not enough emphasis is put on it being one theory, amongst many, or that not everyone believes in it! Religious beliefs are a fact, in that people believe in them, and so they exist, but my problem lies in it being taught to children as the truth, without any question. I love that my daughter learns about religions, it is a huge part of most peoples lives, and so society as a whole, I don't love that she is being taught to believe in it blindly and not being empowered at school to make her own decisions on what religion she wants to accept! There are very many after all!