I recently heard a pastor speak about a woman who came down for prayer because she had a lot of problems. While he was praying over her a demon spoke through her in a deep voice. He said something about her being his and he didn't want to leave. After much prayer this demon left her. Can a person be saved and still have a demon? Or can a person accept Jesus Christ as their savior and have a demon dwelling in them. This woman was in a church needing prayer... could it be she had accepted the Lord? I don't understand. What do you think?

Yes it is possible. Demons are separate. Just like angels are separate. If one does attach itself to you then it can be cast out. But even in believers it can cause pain and affliction.

Boy did you open up a can or worms on this topic!

There are pretty much two schools of thought (within the Christian community) on this.

The main school of thought is that once you are a Christian and indwelt by the Spirit of God, though still capable of sinning and "messing up", there is little to no room for demonic occupation. Obviously there is much scripture to support the Holy Spirit dwelling in a Christian. You can understand how, by reason, one would assume that no such Obviously could be made.

The other thought is that yes, it is possible for a Christian to be demon possessed. Along side 1 Corinthians 6:19 as we are described as a temple indwelt by the Holy Spirit, we are forgetting that only the Holy of Holies belonged to God alone. While the temple as a whole is FOR God, even gentiles were allowed into the Outer courts.

By reason, it would seem to me that a Christian could not be demonized. However, over the last few years I have read a lot on the subject of Christian demonic possession. While the Bible never says specifically one way or the other... real life is showing the deliverance community otherwise. I will not say 100% one way or there other... because to do that would require a knowledge of the hearts and rightstanding with God that these people may or may not have. Specifically that will have to be left with God. In a practical sense... there are many... MANY cases of people that we should know to be saved coming forward with demonic issues.

As I stand right now, I do lean towards the possibility of a Christian being able to be demonized. To be honest, if I was to pray for an individual that I "knew" to be a Christian, I wouldln't bring up the issue of their salvation. I would simply get to the matter of why the spirit is there, have the right broken and case it out. I don't want to get caught up in who is sinning, or who has lost salvation, etc...

I know my response was on the less technical side of things and was really without scriptural support... but I'm very tired right now lol.

Dr. Lester Sumrall (whom I admire more so than any other human being to have ever lived) was one of the leading authorities on deliverance and demonic possession. He strongly taught that a true born again believer could not be possessed. I might footnote here that I agree they have the power NOT to be... and SHOULDN'T be.

Derek Prince was an amazing deliverance minister and he taught just the opposite. Christians could indeed be possessed (or demonized). He had decades of examples to back that belief up... and I believe he made very compleling arguments for it.

If this is s subject anyone else desires to read further into I would suggest readings from BOTH of these men.

I don not believe a Christian can have a demon living inside of them. God is light, and in hin there is no darkness. Yes, you can be oppressed by a demon, but these things are on the outside of you, not inside were the Holy Spirit lives. If this lady is living in fear of maybe having a demond they can attach themselves to you. She needs to come against the spirit of fear in the name of Jesus Christ. These demons want you to believe that you can have one of them living inside you, and so causing fear. We are told not to yield ourselves unto sin but God.

Rom 6:13 Don't give the parts of your body to serve sin. Don't let them be used to do evil. Instead, give yourselves to God. You have been brought from death to life. Give the parts of your body to him to do what is right.

Curtis,

I use to believe exactly like you. But I am not sure any longer. THINK about it. This woman was in church.. she could have been saved. How can a demon keep someone from salvation. They do not have the power. Salvation is simple... christianity is much more complex.

Very true... let's not confuse oppression with possession. Curtis I was with that stand point for a number of years. I'll say this much, I won't say 100% yes or no. As a said earlier, I'll leave their rightstanding with God and God alone. As Christians we are simply called to free the captives, whether we believe they are saved or not. Saved or not, if you experience deliverance I don't see how you aren't coming out the other end of it a Christian.

Haunting,

I'm blown away by your thoughts. I really think it is possible and at one time I didn't. Creepy. I will be looking into this further.

I have tons of questions. But I will wait until you aren't tired. I want fresh answers. Lol

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Originally Posted by classyT

Curtis,

I use to believe exactly like you. But I am not sure any longer. THINK about it. This woman was in church..she could have been saved. How can a demon keep someone from salvation. They do not have the power. Salvation is simple...christianity is much more complex.

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Classy, let's not confuse being in church as the same thing as being saved. And that's the tricky part about this particular subject. We have to make a lot of assumptions here.

Also, let's remember Christ encountered demoniacs in the temple areas. Demons aren't afraid of church... nor are they afraid of many Christians these days. There are also religious demons. I just refuse to believe our understanding of this can be cut and dry.

If a person came to me for deliverance and I knew them to be a Christian... I just could NOT bring up the issue of their true salvation. The issue of sin certainly needs to be dealt with... but I've sinned many times as a Christian... who am I to cast stone in that matter. That's why my conscience just can't allow me to fight on one side of this issue alone.

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Originally Posted by classyT

Curtis,

I use to believe exactly like you. But I am not sure any longer. THINK about it. This woman was in church..she could have been saved. How can a demon keep someone from salvation. They do not have the power. Salvation is simple...christianity is much more complex.

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No demon in hell or anywhere can stop someone from getting saved!! The gates of hell can not and will not prevail against the Kingdom of God. When I was a very young Christian, some 33 years ago I experienced these same things, and the Church I was going to did not have the wisdom necessary to deal with it. It took diligent prayer seeking answers from God on how to deal with it. In the end this person was a friend of mine, and she lived in fear of this, and it manifested itself in the form of a demon. It was not in her, but oppressing her. Once she knew the truth it set her free.

Curtis

Let's also make sure we're on the same page for the definition.

I think "belonging to" and "having control of" are two different things here.

As a Christian, of course we do not belong to Satan or his eternity any longer. However, I believe a Christian can be driven (demonically) to do things.

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Originally Posted by classyT

Curtis,

I use to believe exactly like you. But I am not sure any longer. THINK about it. This woman was in church..she could have been saved. How can a demon keep someone from salvation. They do not have the power. Salvation is simple...christianity is much more complex.

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Don't be unsure any longer, you know in your heart what the truth is. As the anointing in you teaches you all things and is no lie. Trust in the God that is in you.

Curtis

I believe this is an issue the church has brought upon itself. Again, we SHOULDN'T be dealing with the subject... but sin finds ways to creep in and here we are.

I am usually a very black and white, right and wrong... "this is what scripture says" kind of guy. This is the one subject in Christianity where I think the two sides should hold hands. Christians should not be demonically influenced... yet if we DO sin, we have an advocate with the Father, that is Christ Jesus. If we DO stumble we are not cast down but upheld by His right hand. Praise God we have a merciful and forgiving Lord!

Haunting,

Oh please I hear you. Church going does not equal salvation. But it made me think. What IF someone had a demon, heard the gospel and accepted the Lord. A demon couldn't prevent them.

Curtis -
As far as being a Christian and getting into sin or even satanic activitiy.. I understand oppression. I get the difference. But my question is more about someone who already is possessed, hears the gospel and receives it. Does the demon leave? Or does it have to be expelled?

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Originally Posted by hauntinghelper

I believe this is an issue the church has brought upon itself. Again, we SHOULDN'T be dealing with the subject...but sin finds ways to creep in and here we are.

I am usually a very black and white, right and wrong..."this is what scripture says" kind of guy. This is the one subject in Christianity where I think the two sides should hold hands. Christians should not be demonically influenced...yet if we DO sin, we have an advocate with the Father, that is Christ Jesus. If we DO stumble we are not cast down but upheld by His right hand. Praise God we have a merciful and forgiving Lord!

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I totally agree, the spirit of fear always manifests itself in these kinds of situations. "That which we have greatly feared has come upon us" Faith on the other hand always triumphs over fear in every case.

Curtis

Ah... I didn't take your original question as to whether a person was already possessed and then receives the Gospel.

No, a demon CANNOT stop a person from willingly wanting to receive Jesus as Savior.
Now, "cannot" does not mean "will not try". Now I know of cases where people have been strangled at the alter from demonic forces doing anything they can to prevent salvation. They will cause people to faint or loose consciousness. One thing you have to know about the spirit world is that these demons vary greatly in strength and wickedness. Some will leave once that person accepts Jesus... others will need to be cast out. But in the end, one way or another, they MUST leave.

Personally I can say this... I was so far into demonic oppression before I received Jesus in my heart that I almost can't discren the line between possession and oppression. Satan had me bound HARD. I would be filled with such hate and tremble all over when I was around people worshipping God. I could hardly stand in church anymore. When I prayed with my pastor, there was no manifestation or interference... but I felt all that binding drop off me. I literally felt something come off me and leave me. I have never felt so clean and pure and light in my entire life and it brings tears to my eyes even typing about it right now.

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Originally Posted by classyT

Haunting,

Oh please I hear you. church going does not equal salvation. But it made me think. what IF someone had a demon, heard the gospel and accepted the Lord. A demon couldn't prevent them.

Curtis -
As far as being a Christian and getting into sin or even satanic activitiy..i understand oppression. I get the difference. But my question is more about someone who already is possessed, hears the gospel and receives it. Does the demon leave? or does it have to be expelled?

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When Jesus sets someone free they are free. You can not have the Holy Spirit and a demon living in the same body. Yes that demon leaves, yet that same spirit will try to oppress that person, to cause fear. The spirit of fear will and does cause a lot these manifestations. You get rid of fear and you will get rid these demons. Resist the Devil and he will flee from you. A lot young believers are susceptible to these kinds of things, once we know the wiles of the Devil he has no place in our lives.

Curtis

Curtis.

Ok. I can accept that. Haunting do you concur? ( I watched Catch me if you can today.. ha ha. Sorry if you haven't seen it I you won't get my joke)

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Originally Posted by classyT

Curtis.

Ok. I can accept that. Haunting do you concur? ( i watched Catch me if you can today..ha ha. sorry if you haven't seen it i you won't get my joke)

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Good movie...

We own it ;)

I used to accept the whole "possessed vs oppressed" thing, until I realized that the Bible makes no such distinction. The Greek term is just "demonized." No degrees of difference, no distinction between believer and unbeliever, just "demonized." If the demon is there, it needs to be gotten rid of, believer or no. That's as much as I know, except that I have encountered believers who were pretty severely demonized. Helping a group of fellow believers expel one of them was NOT fun, in fact it was one of the scariest things I've ever seen. And the other person I've seen in this situation refused to believe it was a demon and not God's spirit, so as far as I know, now some 30 years later, he's still in that condition. I can't say for sure, because I lost track of him after I testified at a custody hearing when his wife divorced him, and he promised to kill me.

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Originally Posted by dwashbur

I used to accept the whole "possessed vs oppressed" thing, until I realized that the Bible makes no such distinction. The Greek term is just "demonized." No degrees of difference, no distinction between believer and unbeliever, just "demonized." If the demon is there, it needs to be gotten rid of, believer or no. That's as much as I know, except that I have encountered believers who were pretty severely demonized. Helping a group of fellow believers expel one of them was NOT fun, in fact it was one of the scariest things I've ever seen. And the other person I've seen in this situation refused to believe it was a demon and not God's spirit, so as far as I know, now some 30 years later, he's still in that condition. I can't say for sure, because I lost track of him after I testified at a custody hearing when his wife divorced him, and he promised to kill me.

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"fact it was one of the scariest things I've ever seen." That is exactly what this demon wanted to do, to cause fear!! Get rid of the fear and you will get rid of the demon. Faith moves God, Fear moves the Devil!!

Curtis

Dave,

So oppression is the same as possession? Is it the same greek word? Very scary.

So in your opinion it MUST be expelled or is walking in the spirit the key to having it leave.

Haunting,

What are your thoughts concerning possession vs. oppression?

When a person accepts Christ as their Saviour , the are I dwelt by the Holy Spirit( part of the trinity of God).

I do not believe that a true Christian could be demon possessed at the same time that Gid is living within them.

The lady in question was in a church but that doesn't mke her a Christian.

Do I believe that a demon can oppress , tempt , cause pain , physical suffering and torment to a true Christian ? YES. Look at the book of Job. Job was greatly afflicted by Satan but not possessed.

Being a Christian is a daily battle of good vs. evil. Right vs. wrong. Godly vs. ungodly. Being a Christian is hard work if they are living for God. Satan would love to drag us down with him in any area he can. We have to focus our thoughts upward and keep looking forward to the Rapture when we will be removed from the earth and will become true citizens of heaven.

Mcsap,

I get exactly what you are saying. Here is my thoughts... in the last 2000 years it is hard to believe that someone who is possessed hasn't wanted to receive the Lord Jesus as their savior. When they did... what happened to the demonic spirit? I believe we are sealed with the spirit of promise the second we believe as Paul stated in Ephesians.

Classy - Dave is right, the original Greek is literally "demonized" and it makes no difference between those who belong to God and those who don't. As I said earlier, I think you have to make a lot of assumptions when saying a Christian cannot be demonized.

Very clearly there is a difference between oppression and possession (demonization). Two different words entirely.. both in english and the greek. I have experienced demonic oppression more than once. I might even say that most of what Christianity experiences is just oppression and not possession. Extreme oppression sometimes can be hard to tell apart from possession... which might be where be get a lot of our confusion.

As a mentioned earlier, when I received Jesus as Lord, I felt something leave me. However, I do not believe I was possessed.

Everybody might be operating on different definitions. In a case of actually demonization, I think the Christian would have had to really willingly give a lot over to Satan to find himself in that position... and then you have to also ask, at what point can one loose salvation? You see there are just a lot of assumptions we have to make in a conversations such as this.

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Originally Posted by hauntinghelper

Classy - Dave is right, the original Greek is literally "demonized" and it makes no difference between those who belong to God and those who don't. As I said earlier, I think you have to make a lot of assumptions when saying a Christian cannot be demonized.

Very clearly there is a difference between oppression and possession (demonization). Two different words entirely..both in english and the greek. I have experienced demonic oppression more than once. I might even say that most of what Christianity experiences is just oppression and not possession. Extreme oppression sometimes can be hard to tell apart from possession...which might be where be get alot of our confusion.

As a mentioned earlier, when I received Jesus as Lord, I felt something leave me. However, I do not believe I was possessed.

Everybody might be operating on different definitions. In a case of actualy demonization, I think the Christian would have had to really willingly give a lot over to Satan to find himself in that position...and then you have to also ask, at what point can one loose salvation? You see there are just a lot of assumptions we have to make in a conversations such as this.

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I totally get what you are saying. Can I asked what in the world happened for you to be so oppressed? Were you into the occult?

No, I don't mind. I was actually raised in a Christian home. I just didn't live it. I wanted to do everything except be a Christian. The oppression didin't really start until most of my life was surrounded by Christian influence... my friends, girlfriend, music. As these things began to fill more of my life, the oppression grew tremendously. It didn't have anything to do with the occult... I just gave the devil a LOT of footholds in my life... footholds he didn't want to give up.

I also would like to add, this is where I get a lot of my symphathy towards those that post in the paranormal forum. When someone says they sense evil in their home... I've felt that. That is why I so easily agree with them that it is possible... it's a feeling you can't describe. It's a fearful, evil. Godless atmosphere that can manifest when a demon is near.

I have had many people describe this feeling and I do believe it. Ok now can I asked you... did you ever think you accepted the Lord as your savior growing up in a Christian home? Did you ever tell your parents or people you were saved? I don't know why that is important to me. I suppose because I have a stepson who I helped raise and although he is living like the devil, he professed to be saved when he was younger. I thought it was.real and it could be. I know when I was in my 20's I didn't always behave like a saved woman, and I was. Did the people close to you think you were saved?

Im having a hard time following the debate / question here. The reason being that we know that the devil visited with Jesus in the desert. So it shows by example that even in the presence of god the devil can appear. So why then is it such a stretch that a good person (with god) can't have dealings with a demon. It is not always a persons choice. Think of a demon as a leech. Its not something you want but when you least expect it they attach to you. Sometimes the strength of prayer can drive them out and sometimes it takes a little more. Just like when we get sick we sometimes have to go see a doctor.

cdad,

I was raised to believe that the Holy spirit could not and wouldn not dwell where a demon dwells. When a person gets saved we are told they are sealed with the Holy Spirit the minuite they believe. I have always believed it was impossible... I am learning otherwise.

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Originally Posted by classyT

cdad,

I was raised to believe that the Holy spirit could not and wouldn not dwell where a demon dwells. When a person gets saved we are told they are sealed with the Holy Spirit the minuite they believe. I have always believed it was impossible...I am learning otherwise.

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Remember, the Holy Spirit is on there inside of a believer, demons only try to oppress on the outside. The Holy Spirit and a demon can not live in the same body. You either have light in you or darkness, not both.

Curtis

Curtis,

I hear you. But dwashbur and hauntinghelper say that the greek word is the same for possession and oppression. So does it matter? I guess that is my question.

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Originally Posted by classyT

Curtis,

I hear you. but dwashbur and hauntinghelper say that the greek word is the same for possession and oppression. so does it matter? i guess that is my question.

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Oppression is when some one is being influenced by a demonic spirit. But that person is still in control of his/her mind and body.

Possession is when some one is not in control of there mind and or body.

A Christian is either walking in the flesh or in the Spirit.

Curtis

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Originally Posted by Curtis Wilson

A Christian is either walking in the flesh or in the Spirit.

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So you are saying it is the Christian himself who allows himself to be either possessed or oppressed?

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

So you are saying it is the Christian himself who allows himself to be either possessed or oppressed?

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Yes... That is why Jesus always said "fear not". When you operate in fear you are asking for trouble. The opposite of faith is fear, faith moves God, fear moves the devil.

Curtis

Our Pastor cleared this question not long ago. No it is not possible for a demon to live in the temple of God, which is our body. This Woman needed prayer because She had a horrible demon inside of Her, that only the Lord could make that creature leave. It is possible for demonds to surround us and try to make us fail God yes that happens everyday, but If we truly have the Holy Spirit in us, then it is not possible, for one to enter our body.

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Originally Posted by ;

Oppression is when some one is being influenced by a demonic spirit. But that person is still in control of his/her mind and body.

Possession is when some one is not in control of there mind and or body.

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But these are not biblical terms. The only term in the Bible is "demonized." That's the whole point, so you haven't really answered ClassyT's question.

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Originally Posted by classyT

Curtis,

I hear you. but dwashbur and hauntinghelper say that the greek word is the same for possession and oppression. so does it matter? i guess that is my question.

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Classy, forgive me if I wasn't clear... both in english and in the original greek there is a difference between demonization (possession) and oppression.

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Originally Posted by Curtis Wilson

Yes.....That is why Jesus always said "fear not". When you operate in fear you are asking for trouble. The opposite of faith is fear, faith moves God, fear moves the devil.

Curtis

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I have a problem with this definition. The opposite of faith is disbelief. To me at least the oppisite of fear is love. God's love of mankind and its creatures is what is preached in many bibles. Love is very powerful. It is through God's love that we gain grace and strength.

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Originally Posted by hauntinghelper

Classy, forgive me if I wasn't clear...both in english and in the original greek there is a difference between demonization (possession) and oppression.

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OH! I am so confused! Ok that changes things in my mind. Thank you for clarifying that for me