What are your thoughts about the return of Jesus Christ? Do you think it will be before, during, or after the Great Tribulation? Do you believe it will happen, or not?
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What are your thoughts about the return of Jesus Christ? Do you think it will be before, during, or after the Great Tribulation? Do you believe it will happen, or not?
This has been argued to death on this site and as far as I can tell is yes, no, maybe and not enough proof. Just wait and see. Believe me, that is best.
To answer this, you will only get subjective points of view - as different churches teach before Tribulation, during Tribulation, and post Tribulation. My belief is the Christ comes back post Tribulation. Some will even say that Christ is here now and just biding time.
Jesus will return. No one knows the hour, day or time of the coming. Not even the angels in heaven know. Only God knows the exact time and day of the return of Jesus Christ.
I also believe that when no one is paying attention, when no one is being watchful. That is when he will return. We as a nation as a country are being prepared and are aware. So it will not happen until we start to forget and not prepare anymore.
Joe
I didn't realize the differences of opinion that Christians have on this subject. I can understand all views, but I can support my own position, as I have always believed.Quote:
Originally Posted by galveston
The bride (the Church) is removed BEFORE the pre-second coming wrath. (Rev.3) Notice Rev. 2&3- The theme repeats- "They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white.(Rev 3:4-5)
Then, Rev. 6 (before the great woes) the first of the seven seals is the Lord on a white horse.
The Christians are The Great Multitude in White Robes (Rev7:9-17)
From here Christians only watch from Heaven all the wrath that will take place. Rev.19:11After this I heard what sounded like the roar of a great multitude in heaven shouting: Hallelujah!" this theme of great multitude is repeated again. Rev.19:11- I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. Rev19:13-14,He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean.
There is a song we sing in church that has this in mind, with lyrics that say, "on a white horse he comes"-I don't remember all the song but it does reinforce what I have come to believe about the rapture of the Church. Now that is for those in Christ alive at that time. The ones who will be given a final test to repent of their sins and accept Christ-will have much persecution in the end times, I understand, those who do repent will see Christ with The New Jerusalem when it comes down from heaven. For those it must be during or after the Tribulation.
I liked your answer retro, I don't know what will happen or when, but I like your take on it. Blessings.
Since we the people of earth will not wake up, realize the true power we have and put an end to all of our problems, then I agree that the only solution is Divine intervention. We control our world and make it what it is. We have made it a world of fear, hate and war. Jesus died for nothing I suppose. If and when he does come back, I don't think he will be so passive as he was the first time around. As a matter of a fact, I wouldn't blame him if he was just a tad pissed off!
I think of My Lord as loving and forgiving. In my opinion, He isn't looking to be angry but I think sorrowful for those He lost to the great deceiver.
I think he was pissed when he tore up the money changers boths in the temple-I think he is quite unhappy with the way the "Church" has progressed thus far. I think he gets pissed at "Christians' that sit around watching people starve and be hearded to their death and do nothing while saying it's OK because he is loving and forgiving. He is loving and forgiving and every other thing he needs to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by sexybeasty
Jesus could be that homeless person you try hard to avoid. After being avoided all day I'll bet he gets just a little pissed off at the attitude of "good Christians" these days.
But then, it's really nothing to get hung about... just my opinion and my disdain for organized religion and the posers that run it. Man created religion, not GOD.
Send your money to JEEZ-US P.O. Box 7734 Tulsa, Oklahoma. For your love offering of $1,000,000,000, we will send you this wonderful 50 page booklet crammed full of more dogma, fear and superstition to scare you into sending us the balance of you savings account.
Were in HELL is Jimmy Swagart now that we need him?
Mags, I'll need a zip code please to mail my check.
Oh, sorry. That's 66666Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Well magprob, I don't know about God being angry, but I am betting you are pretty pi$$ed. I appreciate your opinion, and see some truth in it, but also see value in organized religion also. Blessings to you and yours.
And may GOD bless you and yours.
Hey, what happened to my previous post? It wasn't inappropriate or abusive. Just because someone disagrees I would hope the mediators would read before they delete.
Sorry, my mistake. Just getting used to this site, and failed to see this is page two. LOL. Forgive me?
Too funny, lol
It is true that Jesus did get angry at times. When He returns, I don't know if He will be angry or not, but it will non really make any difference because:Quote:
Originally Posted by magprob
Jude 1:14-15
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
(KJV)
So we see that angry nor not, jugdment is coming. Your observation that mankind has made the world what it is, is right on target. I don't think though I would lump all "organized religion" together. There are vast differences between organizations.
I agree 100% that some organizations do everything they can to help. I know that a lot of Christians give every Sunday and then go home. They think that if their money does good then good and they feel better. If the church uses their money to buy cigars, booze and hookers, then so what? As long as they gave in good faith, then they are still blessed. I would rather buy a homeless guy a burger. Then I know where it went. I went to a church one time and the preacher said all he needed was a new Mercedes. He then proceeded to put everyone there on a guilt trip about it. People started pulling out the check books. That was in 1982. I have not been back to church.Quote:
Originally Posted by galveston
Benny Henn said he needed 90 million dollars to build a new church. After he got the 90 million, he built an ocean front home. When asked what happened to the new church he smugly replied, GOD changed his mind.
We do create our reality and this is the reality we have created by putting it in others hands. If we all just did one thing a day, on our own, we wouldn't need them-all problems would be solved.
Wow, you have seen a few really bad Christian examples. I have seen a few too, I admit. I still have faith that there are lots who are on the right track. Organization can be good as some folks need regular communion. It would be great if everyone were discerning. I think it is fine to question the practices of the church leaders and their hearts at times if things are suspicious. There position calls them to a higher standard which I would hold them to.
From reading the Bible and really looking into Revelations and some of the other books that prophesied both the coming and the second coming of Messiah; I believe that he will return at the end of the Great Tribulation, that is when he is to pass judgement on those whom followed the Anti-Christ. At that time he will begin his 1000 year reign.
I too have some problems with 'organized' religion. But then again, apparently so does God. In Revelations the churches are addressed. I think that too many churches have taken it upon themselves to interpret the Bible in a way that best suits their needs or their wants. Religion, the belief in God as our Creator and Jesus as our Savior and Lord, is practiced as docterine rather than being taught as the way we should live our lives.
I also see so much hypocracy--just going to church and 'acting' Christian are not a guarantee into the Kingdom of Heaven. It really is something that I believe you must feel in your soul. As for forgiveness, well, we received forgiveness for our sins through the blood of Jesus Christ. We still have to admit our sins and we have to be vigilant not to keep repeating them. While God is a forgiving and patient Father... he too can get tired of waiting around for us to do what's right. He made that abundantly clear when he cleared the Earth during the flood.
Well I don't know what I believe about that but what do you think?
Rob, I need to address one thing you just stated. We all sin and we all repeat sin. It is a fact. In order, though, for us to have an abundant and blessed life and to be pleasing to our Father in Heaven, we must try to be vigulant to be loving and kind and to do right by others. He is our Father in deed, and He will reward or punish us according to our lives which He alone should judge.
I don't know if you were implyig that Christians would lose their salvation by sinning, but I answer with a resounding NO. His relationship with us is like our own with our children. We get disappointed at times and will punish at times when our children do wrong. We will never forsake them. They belong to us, and we belong to them. Once our name is written in the Book of Life, it will NOT be ereased. That is God's promise to us. ALL of us sinning Christians.
Since I want the blessings that go along with an obedient life, I try my best and besides, I feel close to God in the process. I fear the loss of blessings here on Earth due to sin, not the loss of my eternal promise.
Just wanted to clear that one up. Blessings to you and yours.
I understand how you may have misunderstood what I said... We are human, we sin, we make mistakes and we are infallible. We were meant to have perfection, but long story short, we tempted our own fate. The wonderful gift of free-choice that God gave us is something that we deal with each day. We make good choices and we make bad ones too. “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us” (1 John 1:8). Which is perhaps the biggest sin... LOL!
We (all of us) GAIN our salvation by repenting our sins. The Bible pretty much tells us that after Jesus was crucified that he became our 'way to God'... I honestly think that by that time God was so fed up with us as whole he decided to step back and let our history continue as phophesied. No matter what we do, even after repenting and asking for forgiveness--we are still going to be imperfect, we are still going to sin. I believe that when people do this, they become more aware of what they are doing and really try to become more like the people Jesus tried to teach us to become.
And of course... if a person is only interested in salvation as the bottom line, I don't think they have their 'heart' into it. I think that each day we are given a new beginning, new hope and new opportunities to become better people. However, when a person continues to push God away, eventually God will go away. He will harden the heart and that person will be lost.
On one hand--REV 3:14 says that those who overcome will not be erased from the Book of Life, that Jesus will confess his/her name before God and the Angels. On the other hand, PS 69:28 talks about being erased from the Book of Life and not recorded with the righteous. That would lead me to believe that one can be erased... but as I said before--we have free-will and we can make the choice to be confessed before God--or blotted out.
Rob, I think that verse is referring to Earthly life. I think we have intrepretation differences. Nonetheless, I respect your right to a difference of opinion. Blessings.
Can you explain why you believe that verse refers to Earthly Life?
I really am curious, to me, part of learning the Bible and understanding it is to be open to realizing that I may not totally understand every word written... it's a constant learning process.
Well, it is hard for me to explain, but I was on another site, wondir and a guy with the handle, MRK, I believe it was MRK had explained it. It made sense to me. He said there is the Book of the Living and the Book of Life and they are referring to earthly life and eternal life respectively. Anyway, I just feel strongly about this. I am just a gal who was raised hearing it this way, and it rings true.
I responded to you on my question post, where I asked you if you can imagine NOT being a Christian? I cannot. I believe true repentance cannot be shaken loose. We cannot judge whether those who claim to once have been Christian ever truly took the step. It is inconceivable to me. Really, in life's practicalities, can you imagine not having the Holy Spirit with you to love and to guide you? The faith in me is sooo strong, I cannot imagine it not being the same for other Christians.
Sorry my answer isn't more sufficient. I am not a teacher... just a believer.
I think that all Believers are teachers in some sense of the word!
I don't think it's up to us to judge people either--only God truly knows what is in a person's heart. It's really easy for us to sit around and say what someone else does is wrong--but to say that God won't forgive it... not our choice. We can choose not to be around those who test our faith, we can also look at something and allow that's it's wrong, but as I said--that ultimate forgiveness is up to Him.
I can imagine it--I was raised in a way that 'taught it', but until I really decided to learn it and understand it--I did not fathom how much impact it would have on my life. Not saying that I've grown a halo or anything--wow--I know I try His patience! But I somehow feel that there is more to me now. Hard to explain, it feels good though.
Yeah, it feels pretty good to me too. I like you Rob, you have a good heart.
TRy reading this it may help with all different views, and possibly answer all your questions.
Are We Living in the End Times? (Hardcover)
by Tim F. LaHaye (Author), Jerry B. Jenkins (Author)
Who? Me? Well, here's what I believe. Jesus will come back. I believe it will be pre-tribulation, because the Great Tribulation is when God finally pours His anger out on a rebellious humanity, and the Bible tells believers that they are not appointed for wrath. Also Jesus said it would be like it was in the days of Noah and Lot. I believe the point there is that Noah and his immediate family were on board the ark when it started to rain, and Lot was safely out of Sodom before the fire fell on it. But if God chooses to keep believers safe in the midst of the Great Tribulation, that would be OK too, but I don't read the Scriptures that way. The main point is simply, are you ready?Quote:
Originally Posted by think_pink
We don't want to get into a discussion on the subject of eternal security. Do we??Quote:
Originally Posted by sexybeasty
That is how threads go sometimes. I was addressing something Rob stated. Sometimes questions lead to other discussions.
Sorry! I'm probably the one who derailed the train... I'm a lot like Godzilla that way! ;)
Rob, I don't think there is any need to appologize. I have been on many threads that lead to different topics yet somehow were tied to the question. If I pose a question, you can bring up something that goes with topic anytime. We weren't discussing commercials... we were discussing Christ. For me, it all ties. Have a wonderful day Rob and Galve.
Got to get ready for work... and in case anyone wants to know, I am NOT prepared to discuss my job at the post office.
Hey, galv, that last sentence was a total joke. I should have put LOL on it or something. I do understand why you posed the question in the first place and it was legitimate, I just was saying, in threads, subjects move along, especially in long threads. Again, have a good one.
I would like to add that many millions of people have died, and exactly zero have returned. The odds look very slim for Mr. Christ.
That's because they have not been resurrected. Until the end of the Tribulations, when Messiah returns and begins his 1000 year reign... no one who has died will be here.
But then if you listen to any of these psychics--the dead people are all over the place--just seems that only certain people can see them... (I'm rolling my eyes right now!)
Well robyn when you step back and think about it both situations have about the same probability of occurring.
Capuchin, people are not supposed to return. Not now. However, Christ is the Son of God. Jesus foretold His second coming in the Bible. In fact Jesus' resurrection account in the New Testament is proof of His first return.Quote:
Originally Posted by Capuchin
John21:11-14- Simon Peter climbed aboard and dragged the net ashore. It was full of large fish,153, but even with so many the net was not torn. Jesus said to them,"Come and have breakfast." None of the disciples dared ask him, "Who are you?" They knew it was the Lord. Jesus came, took the bread and gave it to them, and did the same with the fish. This was now the third time Jesus appeared to his disciples after he was raised from the dead.
I suspect that those who are walking in the Spirit in these last days will actually begin to anticipate that something is about to happen.
I just like to suggest you read the Bible. You can read it for reproof of Jesus' resurrection for starters. But it is hard to understand the Bible without the Holy Spirit(if you are not a Christian) because it was by the Spirit of the Lord that the written Bible was inspired.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Well--I have to look at the Bible... the prophesies turned out to have really occurred. It's sort of hard to argue that the resurrection won't happen when all of the other stuff was foretold and did take place.
As for the psychic's--I can only refer to Syliva Browne--talking to her 'spirits' and telling the parents of a missing boy that the child was dead and laying in a wooded area. That same missing boy was later found in Missouri--along with another missing child who was presumed dead. Real nice spirits eh?
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