Ok... I got saved about 5 or 6 months ago and my boyfriend who used to be a very good christian encouraged me to.. well now my boyfriend is slacking off and has been purposely doing sins, and asks God for forgiveness, knowing that he will do it again.. and he thinks that just because he is saved he will still go to heaven and not hell.. my question is will you still go to heaven if you are saved and doing sins on purpose and asking God for forgiveness but knowing that you are going to do it again or will you go to Hell? Please help me! :confused: :(

I believe Jesus died on the cross to wash away sins and he did it for the World. BUT, if someone keeps sinning, all they are doing is risking a terrible, unhappy life while here on earth. God does things to punish his children. A loved one may pass early, get cancer, have a wreck, etc.

Please live your life,starting today, in a good Christian manner and read God's word and try to live by it and you will reap many blessing because the Lord knows you're trying to walk His way. Good Luck! :)

Reading Gods word is important. Meditating and praying daily is important. Yes, I do believe that we do get diciplined, just like when a child misbehaves and we punish our child to teach our child that something is not right, our Father in heaven does the same thing. Pray for your boyfriend. It is not up to you to save him. It is up to himself. You need to be strong in your faith and forgiveness and do not take part in things you think are not right.

Joe

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Originally Posted by lonely_scared_confused

Ok...I got saved about 5 or 6 months ago and my boyfriend who used to be a very good christian encouraged me to..well now my boyfriend is slacking off and has been purposely doing sins, and asks God for forgiveness, knowing that he will do it again.. and he thinks that just because he is saved he will still go to heaven and not hell..my question is will you still go to heaven if you are saved and doing sins on purpose and asking God for forgiveness but knowing that you are going to do it again or will you go to Hell? Please help me!!:confused: :(

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I fully believe in god I gave him my life. And I know for a fact that god will never not forgive you. If you sinned no matter how severe the sin is, god will ALWAYS forgive you. Just believe in him and he will guide you through. God Bless!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lonely_scared_confused

Ok...I got saved about 5 or 6 months ago and my boyfriend who used to be a very good christian encouraged me to..well now my boyfriend is slacking off and has been purposely doing sins, and asks God for forgiveness, knowing that he will do it again.. and he thinks that just because he is saved he will still go to heaven and not hell..my question is will you still go to heaven if you are saved and doing sins on purpose and asking God for forgiveness but knowing that you are going to do it again or will you go to Hell? Please help me!!:confused: :(

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Sinning on purpose and then asking god for your forgiveness doesn't always garentee that he will save you and welcome you in heaven. Sinning on purpose is just wanting attention. But if you really do believe in god and take him into your heart and love him then yes he will go to heaven. Try getting him to go to church that will help too.

It is fairly common for those newly saved in Christ to believe that once they are saved, they are always saved. To purposely go against God's teachings, break a commandment, etc. is an act of willful sin. Which does not mean it cannot be forgiven - it can - but God looks at the heart of man (collectively speaking) and the true intent of the confession and asking for forgiveness. If I go out and steal, then ask for forgiveness, but go out and steal again, my whole petition is meaningless.

Joe is right when he said that you cannot save your boyfriend. You CAN pray for him. The rest is between your boyfriend and the Lord. Best to both of you.

I notice a lot of answers from people who apparently think they never sin on purpose. Everybody does from time to time. That is a fact. Jesus died for the sins of the World. All we need to do for salvation is ask Jesus into our hearts, accept that He is the Divine son of God and in the trinity and also, get baptised ask forgiveness for all sins and share that you love Him and just believe. Simple.

Once our name is written in the Book of Life, it CANNOT be erased. That is God's promise. Stop worrying about yourself and your boyfriend. You do need to be less sinful for a more happy and blessed life.

Consider when you disobey your parents. Do they not get disappointed? Do they not punish? Well, you may get pregnant if you are having sex out of wedlock. You may get in a wreck if you are drinking and driving. God will not allow you to live in sin without punishment when you belong to him.

That said, can you truly not be your parent's child, no matter how you mess up? Well, the answer is no. YOU WILL ALWAYS BELONG TO YOUR PARENTS! The same is true of your father daughter ralationship with the Lord. Start trusting Him and doing right by the Lord because He does right by you. You have a place in Heaven but wouldn't you also want a blessed spot here on Earth too? Just obey and see how blessed you'll be. Count on it!

In the bible it's stated that " For if we wilfully sin after we received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sin" Need I say more?

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There is no reason to be scared or confused. But I on the other hand understand why you would be afraid scared, and confused.

We live in a world where many religions use fear tatics to control others. These methods can confuse us and leave us afraid, scared and confused.

The Bibel tells us that we are Created by God. He is our heavenly Father. Just like we obey our fleshly father, because we love him and want to gain his approval, we also obey God because we Love him and want to gain his approval.

As far as sinning, we all will reap what we sew. However we first must truly learn the truth about God. He is a loving and merciful heavenly Father, and if we sin he will forgive us. We though must try to not comitt the same sin again and again. We can pray for forgiveness and work towards showing God we are truly sorry.


This scripture comes to mind. “He will remember their error; he will give attention to their sins.” Hos. 9:9.

There was a major problem with Israel’s repentance. The people were continuing to practice sin. At Hosea 7:4, the people are likened to “a furnace,” or baker’s oven, evidently because evil desires were burning within them. In view of such a deplorable spiritual condition, did the people deserve mercy? Certainly not! What do we learn about repentance and mercy?

The warning example of the faithless Israelites teaches us that in order to benefit from God’s mercy, we must demonstrate heartfelt repentance. How is such repentance manifested? God is not deceived by tears or mere words. Genuine repentance is made apparent by actions. In order to receive mercy, a wrongdoer must completely abandon his sinful course and bring his life into harmony with the high standards of God’s elevated worship.

If your friend continues to sin willfully, then he really is not sorry for his sins. If someone came and continually lied on you and slapped you in the face, then turned around and apologized and two hours later came back and did the same thing over and over again. Would you truly feel in your heart he/she is sorry?
Enough said about that.

Now let’s talk about being saved. As might be expected in a world that thinks too highly of human philosophy, there are many views regarding human salvation. There are, for example,

1) Religious persons that think belief in Jesus Christ is practically all that is necessary for salvation.
2) Another view of salvation is that held by those who believe in universal salvation.
3) Finally we come to those persons that reject man’s need for salvation. In their eyes the shedding of Christ’s blood as a ransom sacrifice had no value. Not only is this view held by atheists but also by persons that claim to be Christians.

God’s written Word reveals that more than profession of belief in Jesus is required for salvation. Just saying that one believes is not enough. When Paul and Silas told the Macedonian jailer: “Believe on the Lord Jesus and you will get saved,” Acts 16:31 they were not limiting salvation to belief that Christ is the Redeemer. They knew that more was involved. Besides believing that Christ is God’s Son and mankind’s Redeemer, knowledge of the Scriptures is necessary as well as a willingness to follow Christ’s example. How can one know how to follow Jesus’ example without studying his birth, life, ministry, and death?

His faith in the heavenly Father was shown by his works of public teaching of spiritual truths that brought honor to his Father and comfort to the people. This fine example must be followed by those who say they believe in Christ. Their faith must be accompanied by similar works. This is pointed out by the Bible writer James, who said: “Show me your faith apart from the works, and I shall show you my faith by my works.” Jas. 2:18.

When a person, on the basis of the Scriptural knowledge he has gained, has belief in Christ as the Savior whom God provided and shows that faith by his works, he can consider himself as being on the way to salvation. It would be a mistake for him to think that he is now saved and cannot fall. He must show by his endurance in the Christian faith that he is worthy of salvation. “Let him that thinks he has a firm position beware that he does not fall.” 1 Cor. 10:12.
What he is on the way to being saved from is not the torments of a fiery hell, for such a place exists only in the imagination of misinformed persons. God’s Word says nothing about eternal torment of lost souls in a fiery hell as being the punishment for wickedness.

Instead, it simply says: “The wages sin pays is death.” “The soul that sinneth, it shall die.” “All the wicked ones he will annihilate.” Rom. 6:23; Ezek. 18:4, AS; Ps. 145:20
This means their punishment is non-existence. Just as a person before they are born are non-existent. God’s loving provision is salvation from eternal death. It means freedom from the curse of death that comes because of Adam’s sin. We who are truly repentant will display the qualities of repentance by not willfully sinning but yet if we do sin we can ask for forgiveness of our sins.
Salvation from death is a gift from God to those that obey him, not to those that disobey.

We will all reap the rewards of our actions. Remember it is what God says
that we must all believe, not what men say.

There are though principles and requirements that we must obey in order to receive salvation. For a person to gain salvation God requires that he exercise faith in Him and Christ Jesus. A person cannot expect God’s favor when he refuses to exercise faith in the Father as a Savior and in the One whom the Father sent to make salvation possible. It is written: “For ‘anyone that calls upon the name of Jehovah will be saved.’” Rom. 10:13

This has to be done by faith, not only in Jehovah and his Son, but also in the truthfulness of his Word. “Moreover, without faith it is impossible to win his good pleasure, for he that approaches God must believe that he is and that he becomes the rewarder of those earnestly seeking him.” Heb. 11:6.
The faithless person does not change reality by his denying the existence of sin and the need for salvation. Although he may refuse to recognize it, he is still a sinner. “If we make the statement, ‘We have no sin,’ we are misleading ourselves and the truth is not in us.” 1 John 1:8

When a person exercises faith in God’s written Word as being true he will acknowledge that he is in a sinful state because of Adamic sin and is in need of a Redeemer. He will show repentance for his sins against God because of his imperfection. “True, God has overlooked the times of such ignorance, yet now he is telling mankind that they should all everywhere repent.” Acts 17:30.

It is only right that the Creator should require obedience from man. In times past those that obeyed him were the ones that he favored. It is no different today. Salvation through the coming war of Armageddon and from death depends upon obedience to God and to His son, Jesus Christ, whom he has anointed to be earth’s ruler. This is shown at Hebrews 5:9, which says regarding Christ: “After he had been made perfect he became responsible for everlasting salvation to all those obeying him.” Here again the Scriptures show that salvation is limited and not universal.

Endurance in the way to life is also a requirement for salvation. It does no good if a person starts on a faithful course of obedience to God but fails to continue on it. He must remain faithful as long as he lives, even when his faithfulness brings the threat of death. “But he that has endured to the finish is the one that will be saved.” Matt. 24:13.

A person must manifest his faith in the manner Christ did by dedicating himself to God, symbolizing that dedication by water immersion, and making public proclamation of the truth. He must be a teacher of God’s Word and purposes as Jesus was. If you say you follow Jesus then we must do the work that Jesus did. We must tell others and teach others God’s way, just as Jesus himself did. He cannot remain silent, thinking that belief alone is sufficient for salvation. Silence is not God’s way to it.

“For with the heart one exercises faith for righteousness, but with the mouth one makes public declaration for salvation.”—Rom. 10:10.

Remember, think about this, and then ask yourself, was my friend ever really saved? Did he really have salvation? If not, then what you first need to do is show him the truth of God’s word and show him that “Once saved always saved” Does not stem from the word of God but from man’s idea’s or private interpretations of what God’s word says. I personally do not believe in the practice of “once saved always saved.”

That is why you friend feels he can do whatever he chooses to do and he is still saved. If that were the case then a person can be saved and then go steal and kill and still be saved. No it does not work that way. There are definite requirements that we all must meet in order to receive the salvation. I hope you will truly sit down and read these scriptures I have quoted from your own copy of the Bible and see for yourself, that one needs to do much more then say they are saved because they believe in Jesus Christ as their savior. Also willful sin never goes without reaping it’s consequences.

Take care,
Hope12

Just my understanding of what the scriptures say.
:)

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Originally Posted by Hope12

I hope you will truly sit down and read these scriptures I have quoted from your own copy of the Bible and see for yourself, that one needs to do much more then say they are saved because they believe in Jesus Christ as their savior. Also willful sin never goes without reaping it’s consequences.

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And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. Acts 16:31 KJV

So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household." NKJV

They replied, "Believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, along with your entire household." NLT

They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved–you and your household.” NIV

And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” ESV

They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household." NASB

And they said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household." RSV

And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, thou and thy house. ASV

And they said, `Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved -- thou and thy house;' Young Literal Translation

And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus and thou shalt be saved, thou and thy house. Darby

But they said: Believe in the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. Douay-Rheims

And last but not least, "They said: "Believe on the Lord Jesus and you will get saved, you and your household." New World Translation

So which of these mistranslated the scriptures?

Hello SpeechlessTX,

I totally agree that the scripture below is not mistranslated. The scripture is correct but the interpretation of men as to it’s meaning is what I disagree with.
Acts 16:30, 31, RS: “‘Men, what must I do to be saved?’ And they [Paul and Silas] said, ‘Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.’”
Think about this is that all man has to do or is it that men take that scripture and give it the wrong meaning when it is read in context with other surrounding scriptures?
If that man and his household truly believed, would they not act in harmony with their belief? Certainly they would.

Now notice other scriptures:
Jude 1:5 (New King James Version)
5 But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.
(What happened here they were saved and yet destroyed after?)

Matthew 24:13 (New King James Version)
13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
(So a person’s final salvation is not determined at the moment that he begins to put faith in Jesus, but it takes enduring to the end to be saved.)

Philippians 2:12 (New King James Version)

12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
(This scripture in Philippians was addressed to “the saints,” or holy ones, at Philippi, as stated in Philippians 1:1. Paul urged them not to be overly confident but to realize that their final salvation was not yet assured.)

Hebrews 10:26-27 (New King James Version)
26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
(Here the Bible does not go along with the idea that no matter what sins a person may commit after he is “saved” he will not lose his salvation. It encourages faithfulness. Take a look also at Hebrews 6:4-6, where it is shown that even a person anointed with holy spirit can lose his hope of salvation. There goes the idea of once saved always saved).

Ephesians 2:8-9 (New King James Version)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
(The entire provision for salvation is an expression of God’s undeserved kindness. There is no way that a descendant of Adam can gain salvation on his own, no matter how noble his works are. Salvation is a gift from God given to those who put faith in the sin-atoning value of the sacrifice of his Son.)

Hebrews 5:9 (New King James Version)
9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,
(Does this conflict with the statement that Christians are “saved through faith”? Not at all. Obedience simply demonstrates that their faith is genuine. So we need to believe in Jesus and be obedient to what he tells us to).


James 2:14; James 2:26 (New King James Version)
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

(A person does not earn salvation by his works. But anyone who has genuine faith will have works to go with it—works of obedience to the commands of God and Christ, works that demonstrate his faith and love. Without such works, his faith is dead.)

If this is not so, then why would these scriptures be in the Word of God.

Take care,
Hope12

Just my understanding of the scriptures.

1 John 5:18 "...anyone born of God does not continue to sin..."

I've known a lot of people who sin purposely saying they'll just repent afterwards. But from experience, I've learned that only God can deal with these people. We are simply to love and lift others in prayer, and that allows the Holy Spirit to do the work he needs to do. Only God knows the heart of a person, so only He knows how to correctly deal with these matters.

Matt. 22:39 "...love your neighbor as yourself..." This was Jesus second greatest commandment.

Just love and let God do the work! It's easier that way anyway!

Philippians 2:12-The apostle Paul councels us to 'keep working out our own salvation with fear and trembling'... Why “keep working” and why with “fear and trembling,” if ‘once saved, always saved’?
Another point to note is what Matthew 24:13 says-“He that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved.”
I hope that covers it. All you can do is encourage him with your own good example. For as Galatians 6:5 says -"each one will carry his own load".
:)
A

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. Acts 16:31 KJV

So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household." NKJV

They replied, "Believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, along with your entire household." NLT

They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved–you and your household.” NIV

And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” ESV

They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household." NASB

And they said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household." RSV

And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, thou and thy house. ASV

and they said, `Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved -- thou and thy house;' Young Literal Translation

And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus and thou shalt be saved, thou and thy house. Darby

But they said: Believe in the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. Douay-Rheims

And last but not least, "They said: "Believe on the Lord Jesus and you will get saved, you and your household." New World Translation

So which of these mistranslated the scriptures?

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Speechless, just wanted you to know... I'm speechless... lol... GREAT RESPONSE!!

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Originally Posted by lonely_scared_confused

Ok...I got saved about 5 or 6 months ago and my boyfriend who used to be a very good christian encouraged me to..well now my boyfriend is slacking off and has been purposely doing sins, and asks God for forgiveness, knowing that he will do it again.. and he thinks that just because he is saved he will still go to heaven and not hell..my question is will you still go to heaven if you are saved and doing sins on purpose and asking God for forgiveness but knowing that you are going to do it again or will you go to Hell? Please help me!!:confused: :(

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Only God knows what is truly in our hearts and He is the judge of all man and "each of us will give an account of himself to God." (Romans 14:12) It is true that a person is not saved by works (Ephesians 2:8-9), but the Bible tells us that if a person has come to faith in Christ, they are a new creation "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!"

That does not mean a Christian will no longer sin, but now has the power (through the Holy Spirit and the Word - the sword of the Spirit) to overcome sin. Whether you BF is a Christian or not is between him and God and whether he is going to heaven or hell is up to God. "Sinning on purpose" is not what God's Word commands of the Christian.

God forgives (1 John 1:9) and He also disciplines His children (Hebrews 12:1-11).

Romans 6 is a good place to turn to understand how a Christian is to view sin (you may want to show these verses to him and pray together):

Romans 6:1-14

1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. 5 If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been freed from sin.

8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.

11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness. 14 For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.

1 John 2:15-17:

15 Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For everything in the world—the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does—comes not from the Father but from the world. 17 The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever.

Ephesians 4:22-24:

22 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; 23 to be made new in the attitude of your minds; 24 and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.

Colossians 3:1-7:

1 Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. 2 Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. 3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.

5 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these, the wrath of God is coming. 7 You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 8 But now you must rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. 9 Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices 10 and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator. 11 Here there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.

12 Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. 13 Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. 14 And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity.

15 Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful. 16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God. 17 And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

Here is an article that may be helpful: Spiritual Growth

God Bless!

I don't see anyone here claiming that they never sin on purpose. All I see is people pointing out that we shouldn't get into the nasty habit of sinning on purpose simply because we think God will always forgive us no matter how we choose to behave-a concept which is totally unscriptural.

Hebrews 10
26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.
NIV

BTW

There is much more involved in believing in the Lord Jesus Christ than a mere statement. Here is an example of people verbally acceping Jesus as savior but behaving in a way that makes them enemies of Christ.

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils ? And in thy name done many wonderful works ? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you, depart from me, ye that work iniquity." - Matt. 7:21-23.

Notice that Jesus wants nothing to do with such people and tells them to keep their distance.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Starman

I don't see anyone here claiming that they never sin on purpose. All I see is people pointing out that we shouldn't get into the nasty habit of sinning on purpose simply because we think God will always forgive us no matter how we choose to behave-a concept which is totally unscriptural.

Hebrews 10
26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.
NIV

BTW

There is much more involved in believing in the Lord Jesus Christ than a mere statement. Here is an example of people verbally acceping Jesus as savior but behaving in a way that makes them enemies of Christ.

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils ? and in thy name done many wonderful works ? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you, depart from me, ye that work iniquity." - Matt. 7:21-23.

Notice that Jesus wants nothing to do with such people and tells them to keep their distance.

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Starman,

I agree that there is a difference in knowing "about" Jesus and believing "about "Jesus and having a personal relationship with Him. Having said that, notice what the Lord says.. "Depart from me.....I NEVER knew you".. not I knew you once but you messed up so I dropped you... nope... These are people who were never saved to begin with.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tessy777

Starman,

I agree that there is a difference in knowing "about" Jesus and believing "about "Jesus and having a personal relationship with Him. Having said that, notice what the Lord says.."Depart from me.....I NEVER knew you"..not I knew you once but you messed up so I dropped ya...nope....These are people who were never saved to begin with.

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Starman & Tessy,

You both make solid points in the last 2 posts. I think a lot of people are deceived by religion (I am a good person or I pray and ask God for forgiveness) or think they are goind to heaven because they said a prayer accepting Jesus as their Savior. A disheartening thought about this - it may not be entirely their fault. There are a lot of churches ("seeker") and individuals preaching a false Gospel, "just say this prayer and you will go to heaven". It is sad that people (who may have good intentions) are actually misleading people with the wrong message. That is why your statement Tessy and the verses you quoted Starman ring so true. We all need to be praying for lost souls; that not only they would be presented the true Gospel, but God would give them the faith to understand it clearly and accept it.

People need to understand the seriousness of their sin (Romans 3:23; Romans 6:23) before a holy, just, and righteousness God - the Creator of the universe. God's wrath is constantly being revealed against sin and no one has an excuse for not glorifying God and thanking Him (Romans 1:18-21). The church and individuals need to be preaching the doctrine of sanctification right along with salvation.

There are false teachers in the church preaching a false Gospel. "But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute." (2 Peter 2:1-2). That is why it is so important that people do not believe everything they hear someone else say (even in a church), 1 John 4:1, "Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world." It is important to read and study the Word for yourself, pray, and allow God's Spirit to give you wisdom and understanding.

As you said Tess, there are people who think they are saved but are really not, and that fits right in with Satan's plan, to deceive people. Standing behind every false teacher is Satan, "For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve." (2 Corinthians 11:13-15)

Philippians 2:12-13:

"Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose."

Yes, salvation is more than just a prayer, we need to work out our salvation, not earn because Jesus already took care of that (Romans 5:8). Working out our salvation is understanding that we were dead in our transgressions, "As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient." (Ephesians 2:1-2). But because of God's amazing grace, mercy and love He sent His Son to pay the penalty for our sins (John 3:16). Working out your salvation is each day remembering what God has done for you; He has rescued you from eternal death to eternal life, John 5:24 "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life." What does He command in return? "Therefore, prepare your minds for action; be self-controlled; set your hope fully on the grace to be given you when Jesus Christ is revealed. 14 As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. 15 But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; 16 for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy." (1 Peter 1:13-16)

As we work (pray, Bible study, church, fellowship, fruit of the Spirit -Galatians 5:16-26) at becoming more like Christ or becoming holy, which means to be different or set apart (different from how you used to live, different from the world around you); God will work in us through His Spirit, "being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus." (Philippians 1:6)

Note: Regarding false teachers, I am not saying that every church, and every time you set foot in one, heresy is being preached. I am simple stating that we need to be mindful of it and when we are at church listening to a sermon or at a Bible study, we need to have our Bible reading right along. Then going over it through the week and praying to God for wisdom and understanding. Unfortunately, there are false teachers and people listening to them who take every word "they" preach as the Word of God.

I praise God and thank Him each day for my salvation! I am not perfect nor will I ever be, but I know that I am forgiven and I know that God gives me the strength and the power to overcome sin. That is the battle I face each and every day (flesh vs. spirit).

1 Timothy 11:12 "11 But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness. 12 Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called when you made your good confession in the presence of many witnesses."

"Then he said to them all: "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me." Luke 9:23

Blessings in Christ,

Kevin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tessy777

Starman,

I agree that there is a difference in knowing "about" Jesus and believing "about "Jesus and having a personal relationship with Him. Having said that, notice what the Lord says.."Depart from me.....I NEVER knew you"..not I knew you once but you messed up so I dropped ya...nope....These are people who were never saved to begin with.

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I agree that these were people who were hipocrites from the beginning. The point is that they are rejected by Jesus from the outset because of there behavior. In short, their claims of being saved forever simply because they CLAIM to accept Jesus and perhaps CLAIM to be saved because of it are invalidated by their way of life. A very simple concept which seems to evade Speechless who seems to feel that the Ransom sacrifice of Jesus is merely a ticket for sinning and getting off scott free. Now THAT is a serious twisting and mangling of the simple clear message Jesus and his Apostles teach.

2 Peter 2:20-21 "For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of (our) Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them."

Once Saved, Always Saved

Starman,

NO. they weren't just hypocrites from the beginning. They Had NO relationship with Him, HE NEVER KNEW them. Never means.. NEVER.

Consider the man in I Corinthians who was living with his Step mother as his wife. Was he sinning on purpose?. yes. Does Paul call him a unbeliever that is lost and going to hell because he sinned on purpose? NO! He called for the Church in Corinth to discipline him so that he would repent, and come to his senses. He even went so far as to call him wicked. He said this and I am paraphrasing 1 Corinthians 5:.. look this guy is knee deep in sin, stop acting like nothing is going on, do not fellowship with him, Let Satan have at them. "to deliver such an one onto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, (get this Starman) ...THAT THE SPIRIT may be SAVED in the day of the Lord Jesus. The man was obviously saved and was going to continue to be saved but the Church was called to deliver him unto Satan.

I have been sealed with the Holy Spirit that minute I believed. I find NO scripture that states He pops out of me..when i totally CHOOSE to screw up and I do. In fact, I have a promise that Jesus will never leave me or forsake me...i believe it is translated..I will NEVER, no NEVER, no NEVER, leave you or forsake you. When Jesus says NEVER...He means NEVER. You say, "yes well, you can Leave HIM"... and I say to you... YES and I point to that verse and I say... but he says NEVER! I'm so glad I don't have to count on me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lonely_scared_confused

Ok...I got saved about 5 or 6 months ago and my boyfriend who used to be a very good christian encouraged me to..well now my boyfriend is slacking off and has been purposely doing sins, and asks God for forgiveness, knowing that he will do it again.. and he thinks that just because he is saved he will still go to heaven and not hell..my question is will you still go to heaven if you are saved and doing sins on purpose and asking God for forgiveness but knowing that you are going to do it again or will you go to Hell? Please help me!!:confused: :(

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What really matters to Christians is what the Bible says about the matter.

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by laurenjd

1 John 5:18 "...anyone born of God does not continue to sin..."

I've known alot of people who sin purposely saying they'll just repent afterwards. But from experience, I've learned that only God can deal with these people. We are simply to love and lift up others in prayer, and that allows the Holy Spirit to do the work he needs to do. Only God knows the heart of a person, so only He knows how to correctly deal with these matters.

Matt. 22:39 "...love your neighbor as yourself..." This was Jesus second greatest commandment.

Just love and let God do the work! It's easier that way anyway!

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Telling others about God's requirements for salvation is a Christian duty despite the fact that Christians can't read the hearts of the listeners. It is also an expression of loving neighbor as self.


Matthew 28:
19 Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”

NWT

Tessy777

Quote:

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NO. they weren't just hypocrites from the beginning. They Had NO relationship with Him, HE NEVER KNEW them. Never means.. NEVER.

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Of course they never had any approved relationship with Jesus.
Can you please show me where I said that they had?

Quote:

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Consider the man in I Corinthians who was living with his Step mother as his wife. Was he sinning on purpose?. yes. Does Paul call him a unbeliever that is lost and going to hell because he sinned on purpose?

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I didn't say that purposeful sin inevitably leads to permanent condemnation.
Sinning on purpose is part of our present human fallen condition and is beyond our meager efforts to avoid. Such sins are covered by the Ransom sacrifice. But certain unrepentant habitual sinning by certain individuals is not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Starman

Tessy777



Of course they never had any approved relationship with Jesus.
Can you please show me where I said that they had?



I didn't say that purposeful sin inevitably leads to permanent condemnation.
Sinning on purpose is part of our present human fallen condition and is beyond our meager efforts to avoid. Such sins are covered by the Ransom sacrifice. But certain unrepentant habitual sinning by certain individuals is not.

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Starman... dude,

You DIDN't say they had a approved relationship with Jesus, you IMPLY it when you bring that verse into this topic. This is about people who were saved and then loose their salvation. (something that CANNOT be done.) So, I maintain, if you bring that verse into this topic... then I'm going to tell you that they NEVER knew Jesus and therefore your point is MOOT.

Oh OK.. so you didn't say that "purposeful sin inevitably leads to permanent condemnation", but could you please give me the verse that lets us know exactly when the Holy SPIRIT who is SEALED into a TRUE believer... walks away? (says... "you know what, this man has just gone too far and I'm OUTTTA here") Cuz.. gosh dude... I haven't been able to locate that one. I have found one that says I WILL NEVER LEAVE OR FORSAKE YOU... but can't find the one you speak of. Unless of course, it is in the Book of.. STARMAN... my bible doesn't have that book... lol.;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tessy777

Starman...dude,

You DIDN't say they had a approved relationship with Jesus, you IMPLY it when you bring that verse into this topic. This is about people who were saved and then loose their salvation. (something that CANNOT be done.) So, I maintain, if you bring that verse into this topic...then I'm gonna tell you that they NEVER knew Jesus and therefore your point is MOOT.

Oh ok..so you didn't say that "purposeful sin inevitably leads to permanent condemnation", but could you please give me the verse that lets us know exactly when the Holy SPIRIT who is SEALED into a TRUE believer...walks away? (says.... "you know what, this man has just gone too far and I'm OUTTTA here") Cuz..gosh dude...i haven't been able to locate that one. I have found one that says I WILL NEVER LEAVE OR FORSAKE YOU...but can't find the one you speak of. Unless of course, it is in the Book of ..STARMAN... my bible doesn't have that book...lol.;)

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Book of Starman?

Galatians 1:8-9, "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."

Revelation 22:18-19, "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book."


Holy Spirit

God's spirit doesn't dwell in minds that are purposefully and unrepentantly dedicated
To do evil. That is totally YOUR concept and not God's since he tells us that falling away o0r becoming alienated from grace is possible.

Galatians 5:4
4You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

1 Corinthians 9:27
27No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

Revelation 2:10
10Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.

(New International Version)

Of course the once saved always saved will say that such scriptures along with dozens of others which tell Christians to watch themselves lest they anger God and lose out on life no longer apply to them. Unfortunately, the scriptures which warn us to be careful lest we wind up on the Devil's side of the issue were inspired and written AFTER Jesus died for our sins. If indeed these scriptures don't mean what they say to a person who feels he can do nothing wrong to lose out on life, then THAT person is writing his or her own version of the Bible.


Freedom of Choice

Not always, but in some cases habitual unrepentant sinful behavior constitutes a rejection of the Ransom sacrifice. In such cases God respects our freedom to choose since freedom of choice is our God given right and doesn't vanish via once we become Christians. Indeed, if it did, then becoming a Christian would be tantamount to dehumanization, something that God would never do to his servants.

The holy spirit doesn't deprive a person of free will. The holy spirit strengthens, directs,
Enlightens, enables, us to do things impossible to do by ourselves, such as endure persecution, have patience, show love and manifest all the fruits of good Christian behavior. But one thing that the holy spirit doesn't do is force a person to remain a Christian even though the person has chosen to use his God-given free will to renounce his faith and chooses to demonstrate it by purposefully living an anti-Christian pro-Devil lifestyle.

About the questioner

If indeed the questioner is asking based on his belief that he can't lose out on life due to willful, unrepentant demonically approved conduct, then why even ask the question? Actually, that he is moved to ask indicates clearly that he isn't sure if his conduct will divest him of his approved condition before God. Since he has doubts, then, in all conscience, I direct him to scriptures which show clearly that God does care deeply on how we behave and that behavior is the basis for rejecting.

Here is informative website on the subject.

Eternal Security is FALSE (once saved always saved, perseverance of the saints)

Actually, the only spirits which the Bible describes as forcing people to do what they don't want to do are rebel spirits or demons.

BTW
God remains faithful as long as the person doesn't choose to reject him and he is the only one qualified to know when that has happened.

Starman... Dude,

The book of starman... was obviously a joke. See, God gave ME a sense of humor.. obviously.. YOU didn't get one... ok.. I get it.

I do not own anyone that calls themselves a Christian and yet continues to habitually sin... a Christian.. so please don't tell me what my "concept" is. K?

And last but not least... where Sin abounds Grace much more abounds... and my entire, entire point to YOU was your last by the way line... give me the book and verse dude! Back it up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tessy777

Starman... Dude,

The book of starman... was obviously a joke. See, God gave ME a sense of humor.. obviously.. YOU didn't get one... ok.. i get it.

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Sorry if I offended you. I was merely trying to clarify my position in reference to scripture.

Quote:

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I do not own anyone that calls themselves a Christian and yet continues to habitually sin... a Christian.. so please don't tell me what my "concept" is. K?

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I know that you don't own anyone who calls himself a Christian and yet continues to habitually sin since slavery is now against the law. : )

Quote:

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And last but not least... where Sin abounds Grace much more abounds...
and my entire, entire point to YOU was your last by the way line... give me the book and verse dude! Back it up.

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True, grace does abound. But it's not unconditional.

Is Grace Unconditional?

BTW
You'll find plenty of scriptures at the links I provide if scriptural support is really what you are seeking.

Starman,

Glad to see you DO have a sense of humor... I don't own anyone dude and you knew what I was saying.. ;) but I liked that comment.

We will agree to disagree. You are a believer and I appreciate the knowledge that you have. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tessy777

Starman,

glad to see you DO have a sense of humor....I don't own anyone dude and you knew what i was saying..;) but i liked that comment.

We will agree to disagree. You are a believer and I appreciate the knowledge that you have. :)

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As a believer in Jesus' Ransom sacrifice I apreciate you as well Tessy.
Very interesting discussion. Thanks for trhe feedback.

What is salvation? Salvation means being delivered from something. What are born again believers delivered from? The wages of sin. What is the wages of sin? Death. Once a person has exercised faith in the person & finished work of Christ Jesus he/she is saved once & for all time.

That is why salvation is called eternal life. Eternal life is eternal. There is nothing you can say or do to lose your salvation. Hebrews 10:14 says "By that one offering He has perfected FOREVER them that are sanctified." Born again believers are made forever perfect in the sight of God because of Jesus' sacrificial death & blood.

Once saved always saved. Jesus died for all sins once & for all time. Hebrews 10:12 "But our High Priest offered Himself to God as one sacrifice for sins, good for all time. Then He sat down at the place of highest honor at God's right hand." Hebrews 10:17 "Then he adds, I will never again remember their sins and lawless deeds. v.18 Now when sins have been forgiven, there is no need to offer any more sacrifices."

According to Hebrews 10 as well as 1st Corinthians 15:1-4, & many other new testament passages in Romans and 1st John 2:2 Christ's sacrifice took away all sins of the world from the eyes of God forever.

There is no distinction between intentional and unintentional sins. Did Jesus go through all that trouble just to die for a selective group of sins? Did he die for "acceptable sins" only? Is accidental sin more acceptable in the sight of God than intentional sin?

I can only speak for myself when I say that every sin I have ever committed in my life has been intentional. Why? Because God never allows me to be tempted beyond what I can bear. He always provides a way out so I don't have to succumb to temptation.

Therefore every sin I commit is the result of my choosing to give into temptation. Therefore I don't believe there is such thing as unintentional sins. We have to take responsibility for our sins instead of minimizing it by saying "I tried not to sin but I couldn't help myself."

I believe the scripture that God never lets me be tempted beyond what I can bear. Therefore every sin I commit is intentional and committed because I chose to yield to temptation instead of taking the way out that God made.

So because Jesus sacrifice was more than enough to pay for intentional sins (which is the only way I believe a person can sin) the answer is no you will not go to hell for sinning on purpose. Those sins were placed behind the back of God 2000 years ago never to be seen again.

The only sin attributable to man is the sin of unbelief (rejection) in the One who came to die for the sins of the world so that raised from the dead He could impart spiritual life back into us that was lost because of Adam's sin. All sins of the world were judged at the cross.

The verdict was guilty and the punishment was death. Jesus took it all for us. If salvation could be lost then God would be exercising double jepoardy on sin. Double jeporady is illegal in the united states. Once the judge declares us not guillty there is no changing that.

If you have come to a point in your life where you have confessed (agreed) to God that you are a spiritually dead sinner and you have agreed with God that there is no way in hell that you can save yourself and that you need a Savior. And you have put your trust in Christ's sacrificial death alone for the total forgiveness of your sins and you have put your trust in His resurrection alone for the solution to your spiritual condition of spiritual death then you are saved and born again child of God. You never have to worry ever again about going to hell!

So have you come to that point in your life where you have come to the end of yourself and agreed with God concerning the truth about your spiritual condition and putting your trust in His Son's provision for you?

That provision being the death, burial, & resurrection. (1st Corinthians 15:1-4) That is the gospel. The gospel is NOT death, burial & resurrection + water baptism. The gospel is NOT death, burial, & resurrection plus tithing. The gospel is NOT death, burial & resurrection + church membership. The gospel is NOT death, burial, & resurrection + Saturday sabbath keeping. The gospel is NOT death, burial, & resurrection + trying to quit sinning.

The gospel is faith in Jesus' death, burial & resurrection alone as your provision for your spiritual condition of sin & death. No man will ever go to hell because of his sins except for the sin of rejecting the provision that Christ made for the whole world. If it were possible for sins committed on purpose to send one to hell then obviously Christ has some unfinished business to deal with on sin. But I believe what Jesus said in John 19:30 when He cried out from the cross "IT IS FINISHED!"

Even if a born again christian commits a massacare by killing 32 people including himself with a shotgun he will not lose his salvation. Those sins were judged at the cross as well. Jesus died for the sins of murder & suicide.

So if the virginia tech shooter trusted Christ as his Savior before committing that massacre then he is home safe in heaven tonight. Jesus welcomed him in with open arms.

According to the bible even serial killers and psychopaths who go on massive shooting sprees are NOT beyond the saving grace of God. I believe there are born again christians who engage in sociopathic and/or psychopathic behaviors.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kentuckywoman

What really matters to Christians is what the Bible says about the matter.

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

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Kentucky, I believe the Scripture you have quoted directly deals with the question that has been asked, "Will you go to heaven or hell if you sin on purpose and you are saved?"


I think in answering the question, collectively, people have correctly pointed out that:

1. A true Christian cannot lose their salvation
2. Salvation is not by works - it is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.
3. When Jesus died on the cross He paid the penalty for all sins - past, present and future.

True Christians sin and because of that may lack assurance of salvation.

Psalm 51:12 - "Restore to me the joy of your salvation and grant me a willing spirit, to sustain me."

As Christians, if we failure to grow spiritually, we may also lack confidence in our salvation:

2 Peter 1:3-10 - "His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4 Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires. 5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins. 10 Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, 11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ."

Anyone indwelt by the Holy Spirit is secure eternally (will bear the fruit of the Spirit):

Ephesians 1:13-14 - "And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory."

"

"

(Note: Only God who knows the heart of men - He alone is the Judge of man's eternal destination.)

According to Scripture, people who profess to know Christ at one time but later deny Him were never really saved to begin with.

1 John 2:19 - "They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us."

(Note: Only God who knows the heart of men - He alone is the Judge of man's eternal destination.)

According to Scripture, people who profess to know Christ at one time but later deny Him were never really saved to begin with.

1 John 2:19 - "What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?"

(I would recommending reading all of 1 John - it addresses our issue of whether a person is truly saved or not)

In my previous post in this thread (#18, page 2), I wrote about false teachers and a false gospel being preached. People can be manipulated into a decision that they think they made. And once they made the decision, that's the end of it - every thing's all settled. They can live any way they want. But that is not living the true Gospel.

Romans 6:1-2: "Everyone who has this hope in him purifies himself, just as he is pure. 4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. 7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8 He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother."

According to 1 John, if any man continues in sin he doesn't know the Lord. If a person thinks salvation is some kind of a license to sin without impunity and judgment, they are not saved. Because the person who has genuinely converted has a new heart, new spirit, new longings, new aspirations, new desires. It is not the perfection of their life, but it is the direction of it.

(a side note to the previous post - Again, God is the judge, but because of the above and following Scripture, I have a hard time reconciling the fact that if a person goes on a killing spree and then commits suicide - that they would end up in heaven - even if they had "

1 John 3:3-10 - " to be a Christian. Not everyone who claims to be a Christian is. I realize that Jesus saved one of the criminals that hung on a cross next to His, however, a true Christian will bear fruit. Although there may be a rare occasion (God's Sovereignty) that a mass murderer goes to heaven, but it is higly unlikely (based on Scripture). Really, as I am addressing in this post - it would go for any sin, not just murder. If someone commits those crimes and truly repents of their sin and accepts Christ, then sure they would go to heaven).

Ezekiel 36:26 - "claimed"

2 Corinthians 5:17 - "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!"I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."

If a person is a true Christian, you need to see some fruit (Galatians 5:16-26). Are we ever going to get over sin? NO! Is there ever going to be a decreasing frequency of sin? For a Bible believing Christian, I say Yes. As we mature in Christ, there will be a decreasing frequency of sin - we will sin less. But as we grow in spiritual maturity, we will hate sin even more - we will sin less and feel worse. That's how it is. (Read Paul's statement in

BibleGateway.com - Passage Lookup: Romans 7:7-25;

A true believer will never depart from the faith...

Philippians 1:6 - "

Ephesians 2:8-10 - "

So those who do so are revealing that they were never truly saved:

Hebrews 3:12-14 - "See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness. 14 We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first."

Matthew 7:13-14, 17-23 - "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. 21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'"

Do you want to know more about God's plan of salvation and how you can know for sure that you are going to heaven?

Read God's Plan of Salvation - Know For Certain That You Have Eternal Life

If today, you decide to make the most important life changing decision you will ever make - becoming a follower of Jesus Christ - please contact me, I would love to talk with you about what to do next - (growing in your faith as a new Christian).

[email protected]

God Bless,

Kevin

But is possible for a born again believer to commit a sin and not have time to repent of it because he dies of a heart attack or car accident the next second?

What if I get angry at someone on the freeway and flick them off and this person pulls out a gun and shoots me in retaliation? I would not go to hell for a sin I committed at the last minute of my life.

Therefore it is possible for a believer to commit a murder/suicide and still go to heaven. God does not have a numerical value on sin where some sins are more soul damaging than others. All it takes is one sin to condemn a person to death if that sin was not paid for on the cross.

Yes all believers will bear some fruit but all believers are also capable of falling back into carnality and committing some of what we would consider shocking sins. King David committed murder & adultery but he was still a man after God's own heart.

Lot is another example of one who did not live a righteous life yet God declared him righteous because of his faith. We can learn from the old testament heroes of faith that none of them lived righteously. The desires of the flesh do not go away just because one is saved. We are new creatures that inhabit the same body that contains indwelling sin.

While I believe all true believers will bear some fruit that fruit may or may not be visible to others or even to ourselves. There is a reason for that. Maybe because God knew that if He made that fruit visible to us all the time we would get self righteous and puffed up thinking that we are the ones who have something to do with producing the fruit.

I'd probably forget about Jesus in a minute if I were living a perfect life in this flesh & blood body. The scripture says to rejoice in our weaknesses because it's those weaknesses that keep us dependent on Christ. Those weaknesses are reminders. The indwelling sin in our flesh & blood bodies will continue to run its course until it heads to the grave.

As far as those scriptures in 1st John 3:6-9 is talking about our reborn spirit. A person who is born again does not sin in the sense that his reborn spirit does not sin at all. His spirit is secure forever.

The part of us that is born again cannot sin because God's seed is connected and remains there. 1st John 3:6-9 is not talking about sins that are committed from the flesh. The flesh will never change.

By the way 1st John 3:6-9 cannot be talking about habitual sin. It clearly says those who are born of God do not sin period! Nothing in there about habitual sin. So we either have to interpret this to mean that believers live a sinlessly perfect life in the flesh or we have to interpret this as talking about the reborn spirit of man (which is the real us).

This can be proven with what paul talks about in Romans 7:19-20 "When I want to do good, I don't. And when I try not to do wrong, I do it anyway. But if I am doing what I don't want to do, I am not really the one doing it; the sin within me is doing it."

We see that paul struggled with sin in Romans 7:14-25. A poster said that true believers will sin less and less. Well how can one be sure of their salvation then? Should they make a checklist of how often they sin today compared to how often they sinned yesterday or the day before or when they were lost?

So I can be sure of my salvation as long as I don't sin as much as I did before I got saved? That means if I lied 10 times in a week as a lost person I should be doing a checklist to make sure I stop short of that by lying no more than 9 times a week?

What about fornication? I have to be careful not to fornicate more than once every 40 days as a saved person if I fornicated once every 30 days as a lost person?

What does the Bible say about the importance of behavior in relation to our justification and consequent salvation?

James 2:14 - What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but does not have works? Can this kind of faith save him? (NET)

"What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, and one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone... Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."
--James 2:14-17,24 (KJV)

Excerpt
When the word translated above as "justified" (Greek dikaioo, to render, show or regard as righteous) is used in other contexts in the New Testament, it is always used in the sense of being justified before God. (Examples: Romans 3:20, 3:24, 3:28, 5:1, 5:9; Galatians 2:16; Titus 3:7). It is never used to imply justification in the sight of one's fellow Christians.
Ebon Musings: Faith Alone

"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad." --2 Corinthians 5:10 (NIV)

"For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works." --Matthew 16:27 (KJV)

"And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." --John 5:29 (KJV)

"[God] will render to every man according to his deeds, to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life... " --Romans 2:6,7 (KJV)


1 Corinthians 9:27
27No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

Revelation 2:10
10Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.


KJV: And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

The following words were written to those who had accepted Jesus as savior.

"Be not deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that will he also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life." (Gal. 6:7-8)


"…do not be haughty, but fear! For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, IF YOU CONTINUE in His goodness. Otherwise YOU ALSO will be cut off!" (Rom.11:20-22)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dreamguy

While I believe all true believers will bear some fruit that fruit may or may not be visible to others or even to ourselves. There is a reason for that. Maybe because God knew that if He made that fruit visible to us all the time we would get self righteous and puffed up thinking that we are the ones who have something to do with producing the fruit.

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Matthew 5:14-16 - "You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.

Galatians 5:22-25 - "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.

John 15:4-6 - "Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. 5 "I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned."

To those who say that true believers don't sin habitually my question is this: Where do we draw the line as to what constitutes habitual sin? Which one of us is qualified to make that judgement?

How many sins do I have to commit before it's considered habitual? Twice a week? Twice a month?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dreamguy

To those who say that true believers don't sin habitually my question is this: Where do we draw the line as to what constitutes habitual sin? Which one of us is qualified to make that judgement?

How many sins do I have to commit before it's considered habitual? Twice a week? Twice a month?

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Dreamguy, you ask a good question, here is a solid biblical based article that addresses your question.

Here is an excerpt (the link follows)

"1 John 3:10 John sums up his thoughts: "In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." I don't care what anyone claims--if they are not righteous, they are not Christians. A Christian habitually practices righteousness, but occasionally sins; he doesn't habitually sin, but occasionally does something right. Sin is incompatible with the law of God, the work of Christ, and the ministry of the Holy Spirit." - John MacArthur

Why Christians and Sin are Incompatible (2111) (1 John 3:4-10) - Grace to You

I hope it helps, God bless,

Kevin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KevinH777

Dreamguy, you ask a good question, here is a solid biblical based article that addresses your question.

Here is an excerpt (the link follows)

"1 John 3:10 John sums up his thoughts: "In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." I don't care what anyone claims--if they are not righteous, they are not Christians. A Christian habitually practices righteousness, but occasionally sins; he doesn't habitually sin, but occasionally does something right. Sin is incompatible with the law of God, the work of Christ, and the ministry of the Holy Spirit." - John MacArthur

Why Christians and Sin are Incompatible (2111) (1 John 3:4-10) - Grace to You

I hope it helps, God bless,

Kevin

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I already suspected that your beliefs were of the john macarthur brand. I've read some of his book's before. You must be reading out of the Macarthur study bible.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dreamguy

I already suspected that your beliefs were of the john macarthur brand. I've read some of his book's before. You must be reading out of the Macarthur study bible.

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My beliefs are of the Word of God brand, I am follower of Jesus Christ, and I can say with Luther, "my conscience is held captive by the Word of God". I have a few books from MacArthur as well, he is a solid Bible teacher, but I do not agree with everything he believes - I study the Word, trying my best to apply proper hermeneutic principles, then relying on the Holy Spirit for wisdom and understanding. I happen to agree with him on the subject we have been discussing - sin and the Lordship of Christ.

I don't own a MacArthur study Bible, but I am sure like most of his teaching, it is pretty solid. When I am doing my personal devotions or preparing my lesson for Sunday (I teach the college and career class at my church), I like to study using a few different translations - usually the NIV, NKJV, and ESV, and on occasion the KJV and NASB. I will also refer back to the Greek and Hebrew when I am having difficulty with a passage.

God bless brother,

Kevin

You belong to God when you accept Him. He won't let you go no matter what you do. He'll be working all the time to bring the person back to Him, but He still loves that person. That's what grace is all about. We don't go to Heaven because of what WE do. We go because of what Jesus did. The same holds true for hell. We don't go to hell because of our sins because Jesus bought us and paid for us. We belong to HIM! :)

A Christian can burn in hell right next to a non-believer. This belief in 'once saved always saved,' is something we would all like to think is true, but it's not. Any Christian can fall from grace. "Many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord,' and I will say, I do not know you." If we are a Christian, we do God's will. God will not be tempted. Yes a Christian can be forgiven for sins, but that doesn't mean we can keep sinning willfully and always be forgiven, God knows our heart.

We can't pull the wool over God's eyes, He knows our every thought. If we don't have the love of Jesus in our hearts, we are not Christians. If we have Jesus in our hearts then we want to do His will, and willfully sinning just because you know you will be forgiven is another sin in itself.