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  • Oct 20, 2009, 06:24 AM
    sndbay
    How and Why Would You Follow Christ Jesus?
    The scripture message, that men are cursed to trust man, would be a comparison to the commandment of having no other gods. To permit flesh/man to be the arm they reach to and follow, would be entering temptation.

    Our Lord has promised to search the hearts of man. And in that search, Our Lord would see who man loves, what man treasures in life enough to make it the way of his life. What has man worked to achieve in his life.

    I reference the scripture as truth of The Word, Prophecies Addressed to Jews

    Jeremiah 17:5 Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.

    Jeremiah 17:10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

    How would you follow Christ Jesus? Why would you follow Christ? This thread could bring attention to the amazing truth of who Christ is in our daily life.
  • Oct 20, 2009, 11:44 AM
    sndbay
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sndbay View Post
    Jeremiah 17:5 Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.

    Jeremiah 17:10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

    How would you follow Christ Jesus? Why would you follow Christ? This thread could bring attention to the amazing truth of who Christ is in our daily life.

    How about because Jeremiah was comparing verse (17:5) quoted above, as being true when the JEWS lacked the obedience and needed to be told, trust in the Lord (Jeremiah 17:7 Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is)

    AND

    (Jeremiah 17:10) does reference Christ Jesus ability to search the hearts of man referenced in (Romans 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.)

    This is saying He/Christ knows the mind of the Spirit.. And we understand that the mind of the Spirit is (John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me ).

    So I would follow Christ, in the spirit, which is within my heart to do. And Christ will make intercession according to the Will of God, Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in us all.

    Godly fear in obedience:

    Revelation 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

    So what are your works in life? What are the achievements? Who is Christ in your daily life?
  • Oct 20, 2009, 08:56 PM
    paraclete
    Following Jesus
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sndbay View Post
    How would you follow Christ Jesus? Why would you follow Christ? This thread could bring attention to the amazing truth of who Christ is in our daily life.

    I follow Jesus Christ because I know who he is, this is from experiece and also from revelation. I have a long testimany of what Jesus has done for me, but I know that before I began to follow him I was truly lost, an alcoholic, a person who relied on himself but achieved little, a person who made many mistakes in relationships particularly in my family, a person for whom rejection coloured my life.

    If by "how" you mean which church would I go to? I have come to realise it doesn't so much matter which door you walk in as it does whether you know the owner of the house. In some Churches , sadly, you will not be introduced to the owner of the house. So, learn as much as you can about what Jesus taught and then apply it
  • Oct 20, 2009, 11:34 PM
    arcura
    sndbay,
    I follow Jesus as He and his apostles direct me to.
    I participate in the sacraments God instituted and in The Church Jesus founded.
    He is may Lord and Savior, King of the universe, so there is no "Why do I do otherwise?"
    For me it is the only way to go and live and I do believe it is the only way for anyone who wants life everlasting to go and live.
    Peace and kindness,
    Fred
  • Oct 21, 2009, 07:37 AM
    sndbay

    I'd like to tell why I found the heart of desire to post this thread question, and how the scripture message became so important.

    It started with a search in the scriptures, that led me to several scriptures saying, "GOD will search the hearts of man."

    I trust that the judgement of man is done by our Lord, and HIS search is within the heart, and not based on the surrounding influences of the flesh. It is more on how we permit those surrounding influences to enter within our heart. Whether we enjoy them and give love towards them compared to not enjoying them, and refusing to accept them.

    Christ told the disciples to watch and pray. That He did not want them to enter into temptation.

    The tempations we can enter into comes by the surrounding influences.

    *** so this is where it started, I became more aware of what our Lord is teaching in the book of Jeremiah concerning the JEWS. How we today have to causion our hearts of love, and make sure we accept ONE FAITH, ONE LORD, ONE Baptism, and ONE GOD and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.


    Before my day ended,(and this was after the posted thread), I received an email from someone I know very well. And the contents of the email was that they had been studying the History of the JEWS. They said it was clear to them after reading this new book, that the JEWS had all good intention to worship God. That they loved God and did the things they did to show their love to God.

    *** WATCH and pray, the influence the new book had on this person was saying.. Look at this differently then what Jeremiah has written

    My answer would be->No to the man that wrote this new book...BUT What Jeremiah wrote, and what our Lord had to say concerning the JEWS was of truth.

    What Jeremiah does say is how the people, the priests, and the house of God were all followed after man. The influences of their lives became the love of their heart.
    Jeremiah is telling us that God is the all knowing of the heart. God searches the heart to know and told us that the JEWS were following man.

    Point being who do you believe? Who do you follow?

    Every word written in scripture is from the Spirit of truth. The ensample of faith and following in good works was told of in Hebrews 11.

    We are not told by the mouth of God to do as the JEWS had done.

    Clearly we are told to love people and given of our hearts, HOWEVER!! Commandment ONE!!! thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength (The desire of within ourselves to follow God)

    Jeremiah 17:7 Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is.

    SALVATION

    2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: Whereunto HE called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Exd 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

    Jeremiah 25:6 And go not after other gods to serve them, and to worship them, and provoke ME not to anger with the works of your hands; and I will do you no hurt.
  • Oct 21, 2009, 07:49 AM
    sndbay
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by paraclete View Post
    If by "how" you mean which church would I go to? I have come to realise it doesn't so much matter which door you walk in as it does whether you know the owner of the house.


    So very true, and where our REST is, would be found in Christ. Not necessarily in a house built of hands but within ourselves throughtout everyday in the experiences we live, and share with others in love and faith.
  • Oct 21, 2009, 08:33 AM
    sndbay
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by arcura View Post
    sndbay,
    I follow Jesus as He and his apostles direct me to.
    I participate in the sacraments God instituted and in The Church Jesus founded.
    He is may Lord and Savior, King of the universe, so there is no "Why do I do otherwise?"
    For me it is the only way to go and live and I do believe it is the only way for anyone who wants life everlasting to go and live.
    Peace and kindness,
    Fred

    In the first church spoken by the Spirit of truth

    2 Corinthians 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.


    You are being built by our Lord

    EPH 2:19-20-21-22 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

    So we are members of the first church

    1 Corinthians 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

    1 Corinthians 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
  • Oct 21, 2009, 01:17 PM
    arcura
    sndbay,
    Yes I am a member of the first Church established by Jesus where the sacraments are honored and celebrated by His disciples and Apostles where the grace of God flourishes in marvelous buildings built by people for their love of God in which God is worshiped.
    Peace and kindness,
    Fred
  • Oct 21, 2009, 03:56 PM
    sndbay
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by arcura View Post
    sndbay,
    Yes I am a member of the first Church established by Jesus where the sacraments are honored and celebrated by His disciples and Apostles where the grace of God flourishes in marvelous buildings built by people for their love of God in which God is worshiped.
    Peace and kindness,
    Fred

    And I was not speaking of anything built by the hands of man..

    We are the body of Christ, and members in particular, the fleshy tables of the heart. We that are sanctified in Christ (Hebrews 2:11-12 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee. )

    EPH 2:21-22In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

    1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
  • Oct 21, 2009, 09:43 PM
    arcura
    sndbay,
    Yes I know you were not speaking of things built by men, but I did because Christ came to serve us with His infinite and perfect love and mercy in saving us from hell.
    Peace and kindness,
    Fred
  • Oct 22, 2009, 11:35 AM
    sndbay
    The Word of God is Truth



    When in the spirit, we are sanctified in Christ. Therefore we abide in Christ, and Christ dwells within us. (John 15:4 John 15:7)

    Phl 1:27 Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel)

    Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular

    AND as a temple in which Christ dwells, we that are "in the spirit " And can be the unity of ONE FAITH, with the knowledge of the Son of God. No man's hand created us, because we are begotten again unto hope by resurrection with and in Christ (1 Peter 1:3)

    There is no denomination, No dividing Christ, Quench not the Spirit

    And we are kept by the power of God through faith (1 Peter 1:5)

    (Matthew 11:28-29-30) REST

    EPH 4:13-14-15-16 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

    EPH 2:21-22 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

    Once and For All


    Col 2:14-15-16-17 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. KJV

    ~in Christ
  • Oct 24, 2009, 08:21 PM
    arcura
    sndbay,
    I believe in and am a member of The Church Jesus founded caling it "My Church".
    I believe he did that for a purpose for His followers to be members thereof.
    The bible tells us that it is the pillar and support of the truth.
    1 Tim 3: 15. But in case I am delayed, I write so that you may know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth.
    So that is why I joined it.
    Peace and kindness,
    Fred
  • Oct 25, 2009, 10:19 AM
    sndbay

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by arcura View Post
    sndbay,
    I believe in and am a member of The Church Jesus founded caling it "My Church".
    I believe he did that for a purpose for His followers to be members thereof.

    Remember what Jesus said concerning all:
    It is only the man/whosoever that the Father permits, will Christ then reveal truth.

    Matthew 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

    Come to Christ! Christ is the begotten Son of God who gives rest

    Matthew 11:28 Come unto "ME", all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

    Matthew 11:29-30 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

    Also shown: revealed by our Father to Peter, the spiritual truth concerning Christ

    Matthew 16:16-17 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by arcura View Post
    The bible tells us that it is the pillar and support of the truth.
    1 Tim 3: 15. but in case I am delayed, I write so that you may know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth.
    So that is why I joined it.
    Peace and kindness,
    Fred

    Fred the church is the household members of God. And this teaching in which you have referenced was written by Paul to discipline the church/household.

    Timothy was given instructions in orderly arrangement for the church. Some of the members there had turned aside altogether, and denied vital truth and did overthrow the faith of some.

    Paul's warning of discipline was sent to enlighten the opposers. How the evil spread like leave rising is only too plainly shown in Paul's second epistle which has been termed a picture of ruin of the church through the members departure from the apostolic doctrine.

    Instruction and discipline shown in verses ( 2:1 thr 3:13 )

    1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus

    1Timothy 3:5 For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?

    The Mystery of Godliness connected to the verse you reference is in how they should behave as members in Christ :
    (Timothy 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.)

    continues to say: That Christ is within each member that acts according to the manifest flesh that was justified in the Spirit.
    That manifest Flesh and Spirit being none other then "Christ and HIS Righteousness"

    Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

    That is how members should behave themselves..Having and walking in the Spirit of righteousness in following Christ




    So if we see and hear the truth, some men can be blind to the truth. However, every man should be like the blind man, Bartimaeus, the son of Timaeus.

    This man knew who to call upon. This blind man knew his one hope of life, and the only chance he had for a new life. That new life was found in calling upon Christ. In the one hope of today and forever follow Christ.
    (Mark 10:46-52)


    ~in Christ




    Back to the thread:

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sndbay View Post
    How would you follow Christ Jesus? Why would you follow Christ? This thread could bring attention to the amazing truth of who Christ is in our daily life.

  • Oct 26, 2009, 09:07 PM
    Maggie 3
    This is how and why I follow Chirst Jesus,with the Holy Spirit in me I bring every
    Thought captivity to the obedience of Christ. I love the Lord with all my heart,
    Soul, mind and being, and am committed to be responsible, and accountable to Jesus.
    All I do and say, I pray, is from the power of the Holy Spirit. Jesus is the Way the
    Truth and the Life for me. I choose to follow Jesus and do His will, Loving, Forgiving,
    And to serve others in Jesus name. This takes a discipline, and a close intimate relationship with the Lord Jesus, to fully know Him and to love Him with all your being.
    His Word, the Bible brings alive His love and Will for our life. I Love the Lord so
    Much I can hardly stand it. HALLELUJAH

    Love and Blessings, Maggie 3
  • Oct 26, 2009, 10:53 PM
    arcura
    Maggie 3,
    Good for you.
    That's the way I believe and feel also.
    God Almighty is the Triune God of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit with infinite, perfect and eternal attributes such as love and mercy, wisdom and understanding; the creator of all that can be seen and unseen.
    There is no other so why would anyone not believe and feel as you and I do?
    It s a big mystery to me.
    Peace and kindness,
    Fred
  • Oct 27, 2009, 09:56 AM
    sndbay
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Maggie 3 View Post
    His Word, the Bible brings alive His love and Will for our life. I Love the Lord so much I can hardly stand it. HALLELUJAH

    Love and Blessings, Maggie 3

    Bingo.. and a wonderful testimony in whom is shown that Christ is the voice Maggie hears. And the spirit of truth that can work in us.

    John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

    This holds true to the power and control our Father has in each of us that are sanctified through Christ Jesus. And the REST we are able to call upon and trust.

    John 10:29-30 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one.

    Maggie, too has mentioned how her testimony can be found in the volume of the book known to us as the Bible.

    Psalm 40:7-8 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me, I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

    It is Prescribed/Written

    2 Kings 22:13
    Go ye, enquire of the LORD for me, and for the people, and for all Judah, concerning the words of this book that is found: for great is the wrath of the LORD that is kindled against us, because our fathers have not hearkened unto the words of this book, to do according unto all that which is written concerning us.

    The Word of God being Christ Jesus remined HIS supposed father, Joseph, and His mother Mary. That He, being the branch of righteousness, was written of according to scripture. Why then would Christ have to question them concerning their search for HIM because they too should trust, and believe the spirit of truth found and written in the Word of God.

    Luke 2:49 And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?

    The same truth concerning Christ that was written in the OT AND is also written in the NT (Hebrew 10:7 10:9)
  • Oct 27, 2009, 10:20 AM
    sndbay
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by arcura View Post
    It s a big mystery to me.
    Peace and kindness,
    Fred


    This too is written of Fred. There should be no mystery because we have been foretold all things (Mark 13:23)

    John 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

    John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

    John 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.


    All in who we follow and who we hear..

    Thanks Fred, this goes back to the thread scriptures that were referenced. How to follow Christ, and why to follow Christ

    ~in Christ
  • Oct 27, 2009, 09:55 PM
    JoeT777
    In response to: Why would you follow Christ? How would you follow Christ Jesus?

    We follow Christ because we are a part of God's Creation and as such receive God's love. "For thou lovest all things that are, and hatest none of the things which thou hast made: for thou didst not appoint, or make anything hating it." (Wis 11:25) God shows his abundant mercies to those who love Him. (Exodus 20:6) It is right and proper to return that love. And we know that God “was in Christ” who suffered our sins. (Cf. 2 Cor 12:19-21) Thus to love God is to love Christ who was the fulfillment of the prophecy bringing forth the Messianic Lord of the Kingdom of God. We become members of Christ's body (the Kingdom of God). Which, in its turn, brings us back again to the light of God's love. As St. Augustine said, “God loves all things that He has made, and amongst them rational creatures more, and of these especially those who are members of His only-begotten Son Himself." (Tractates on John CX).

    In following Christ we pick up our cross and follow Him guided by His Apostles, deacons, Popes, Bishops and priests in the orthodoxy of our Catholic faith. Christ sent the Holy Spirit to guide the Apostles, to enlighten his Vicar and guide His Holy Catholic Church, the bride of Christ, to follow. Thus for two millennia right reasoned faith guides us to follow Christ for our salvation; “Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic Faith. Which Faith except everyone do keep whole and undefiled [orthodoxy], without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.” (Quicunque vult, attributed to St. Athanasius). Thus crossing the threshold of Baptism the living enter the Kingdom of God in a mystical union of souls in the worship of the object of love, God. It's only here that we find redemption through the instruments of His sacraments; its only here that we find the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic truth of salvation. I follow Christ as he commanded, within His Kingdom, the Catholic Church, bearing the cross He gave me, as one member in a body of many parts (Cf. 1 Corinthians 12:12).

    It's in God's love that we persevere with fear and trembling while working out our salvation. (Cf. Phil 2:12)

    JoeT
  • Oct 27, 2009, 10:25 PM
    a2daj216

    I don't worship jesus, I agree that faith in anything of flesh is a disappointment in advance... It has been shown that other cultures have the same philosophical beliefs about there own "jesus." It all seems to break down to egytian mythology, I do respect and strive to practice the teachings that are told to be of jesus, if he was around he was a damn good guy. If story is true I believe he ascended to his divinity, not descended from God, all food for thought though I guess, no ones ever met either lol
  • Oct 28, 2009, 05:05 PM
    sndbay

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JoeT777 View Post
    For thou lovest all things that are, and hatest none of the things which thou hast made: for thou didst not appoint, or make anything hating it. (Wis 11:25)

    Joe what is (WIS11:25)

    We know that Christ said he came not to give peace but division between good and evil. (Luke 12:51) and it is also written that God loved Jacob and hated Esau (Romans 9:13)

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JoeT777 View Post
    God shows his abundant mercies to those who love Him. (Exodus 20:6)

    (and keep my commandments.)

    Exodus 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JoeT777 View Post
    We become members of Christ's body (the Kingdom of God). Which, in its turn, brings us back again to the light of God's love.

    We can be sanctifiieth members in one body with Christ, but that is determined by the Father

    John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

    Hebrew 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren

    Hebrew 10:11 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

    1 Corthinains 6:17
    But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

    1 Corinthians 6:19 What? Know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JoeT777 View Post
    As St. Augustine said, “God loves all things that He has made, and amongst them rational creatures more, and of these especially those who are members of His only-begotten Son Himself." (Tractates on John CX).

    Man shall live by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God
    Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JoeT777 View Post
    In following Christ we pick up our cross and follow Him guided by His Apostles, deacons, Popes, Bishops and priests in the orthodoxy of our Catholic faith. Christ sent the Holy Spirit to guide the Apostles, to enlighten his Vicar and guide His Holy Catholic Church, the bride of Christ, to follow.

    I trust we follow Christ by denying ourselved and to do the will of God. We are kept by the power of God through faith. We are the temple for the Holy Spirit, and we walk in the spirit. Christ dwells within us. This is all by the power of ONE God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

    Mark 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

    Eze 11:19-20 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

    1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

    Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

    Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JoeT777 View Post
    Thus for two millennia right reasoned faith guides us to follow Christ for our salvation; “Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic Faith.

    I trust it is best to believe in what the Words in scripture speak of holding stedfast in our one hope of the calling.
    ONE Lord, ONE Faith, ONE Baptism, One God and Father

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JoeT777 View Post

    Which Faith except everyone do keep whole and undefiled [orthodoxy], without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.” (Quicunque vult, attributed to St. Athanasius).

    Joe according to what I have recently review that was written by the Pope Benedict, the members within the Body of Christ known as being baptized into the Catholic church denomination, are all sinners that can or may find newness of life by a ongoing call to conversion.

    How do those members achieve the newness of life? How and when do those members believe they can be holy because Christ is Holy. When are they begotten again and raised to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled. I believe we are buried in Christ when baptized into newness of life.

    Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

    REFER Pope Benedict Quote: In Catholic theology we teach what the early fathers, Saints and Councils throughout the ages have all affirmed; to belong to Jesus is to belong to His Body. Our membership in the Church is a participation in the life of God; what the Apostle Peter referred to as a “participation in the Divine nature”.
    We speak of our Christian friends in other Christian communities who have been validly baptized in accordance with a Trinitarian formula as already being in “imperfect communion” with the One Church.
    This is why Catholics do not “re-baptize” a Christian from another community who comes into the Catholic Church.
    We speak of them as coming into “full communion” because they are already joined to the one Church in an “imperfect” or incomplete communion.
    The Catechism of the Catholic Church, citing several ancient sources, states: “To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son's Church.
    The Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation. The Church is "the world reconciled." She is that bark which "in the full sail of the Lord's cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world."

    According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah's ark, which alone saves from the flood.

    This Church is both human and divine; thus her members still sin

    Pope Benedict's 'Impelling Duty': Rebuild the Full and Visible Unity of the Church - Catholic Online

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JoeT777 View Post

    Thus crossing the threshold of Baptism the living enter the Kingdom of God in a mystical union of souls in the worship of the object of love, God. It's only here that we find redemption through the instruments of His sacraments; its only here that we find the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic truth of salvation.

    From what is presented by the Pope, the baptism you speak of within the Kingdom of God is actually the Church. Thus the Kingdom of God is made up of sinners? That find redemption through the instruments of HIS sacraments?
  • Oct 28, 2009, 07:22 PM
    JoeT777
    It would be great if you understood the quote presented as being Pope Benedict's; but it's not the Pope's. However, it makes a strong case for Catholics to identify with the “mother” Church, living in communion, to view the Church as the Mystical Body of Christ. It's a conversation by Deacon Keith A. Fournier written May 22, 2009 at Catholic Online. I'm afraid that somehow you mistook the Deacon's words for the Pope's. Atually, it appears you've taken quotes from two different articles. No foul, but in full fairness to Fournier the following is the full article not quoted. It should be read in context. (Forgive me for the long post – emphases are mine):

    Learning to Love the Church as we Love the Lord
    By Deacon Keith A. Fournier, 5/22/2009 Catholic Online (www.catholic.org)

    The early fathers, Saints and Councils throughout the ages have all affirmed; to belong to Jesus is to belong to His Body.


    To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son's Church. The Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation. The Church is "the world reconciled." She is that bark which "in the full sail of the Lord's cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world." According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah's ark, which alone saves from the flood.

    CHESAPEAKE, Va. (Catholic Online) - “Let us love the Lord our God; let us love His Church… Let us love Him as our Father and her as our mother” (St. Augustine) "No one can have God as his Father who does not have the Church as his Mother” (St. Cyprian) “For where the Church is, there the Spirit of God is also; and where the Spirit of God is, there the Church is, and all grace. And the Spirit is truth.” (St. Irenaeus of Lyons)

    “There is no plan B” I said to my evangelical Protestant friend. “The Lord has not changed His mind. His work continues through His Body, His Church, of which we are all members through our Baptism”. This exchange came at the end of a lengthy conversation initiated by him. He was hungering for a deeper life, in his words, “in the Lord.”

    A long time participant in the pro-life movement, he was first touched by the writings of Pope John Paul II and is a real fan of his successor, Pope Benedict XVI. He is moved by the Pro-Life witness of so many Catholics. He asked me some serious questions that day. I spoke to him of the theology of communion that is the heart of Catholic ecclesiology. I could see in his eyes the interest that will lead him even more deeply along the path I have witnessed so many others walk.

    This encounter is happening frequently these days. I have spent much of my own public ministry in friendship and fellowship with evangelical Protestant Christians. There is a growing respect for the Catholic Church among many of our friends. For some, they have lived in an almost “Church-less” experience of Christianity; one that has so emphasized a “personal relationship” with Jesus (a vitally important truth) that often they have not experienced the “horizontal bar” of the Cross, the real implications of belonging to His Body in ecclesial communion.

    However, they are not alone. How many Catholics understand the implications of their own Baptism? How many have experienced identification with the Church as a “mother”, or living in the Church as a “communion”? How many have come to perceive the Church as “Some – One” more than some-thing? Is this all supposed to only be the experience of the “mystics”, the talk of the Saints and Fathers, or, is it supposed to be the truly common experience of every Christian? I believe it is supposed to be the common experience of all Christians.

    In Catholic theology we teach what the early fathers, Saints and Councils throughout the ages have all affirmed; to belong to Jesus is to belong to His Body. Our membership in the Church is a participation in the life of God; what the Apostle Peter referred to as a “participation in the Divine nature”. (2 Peter 1:4) We speak of our Christian friends in other Christian communities who have been validly baptized in accordance with a Trinitarian formula as already being in “imperfect communion” with the Church. This is why Catholics do not “re-baptize” a Christian from another community who comes into the Catholic Church. We speak of them as coming into “full communion” because they are already joined to the one Church in an “imperfect” or incomplete communion.

    The headlines are filled with stories concerning the evil participated in by some members of the Catholic Church over a period of time in Ireland. The report was issued after a nine year investigation. It has left that Nation and the Irish Church heartsick. In the beginning of the sexual abuse crisis in the United States Pope John Paul II rightly referred to the evil at the root as part of the “mystery of iniquity.” So it is in Ireland. There is a purification of the Church underway. This passage of the Gospel comes to mind “… nothing is hidden that will not be revealed.” And, “…what was spoken in secret will be shouted from the housetops”. (Mark 4:22, Mt. 10:26) This is not the first time in 2,000 years that evil has found its way even into religious communities set apart for service. Then, like now, it was revealed.

    Such times of purification often come right before a great time of genuine renewal. Could we be in the beginning of a great new missionary age of the Church? Along with the purification there is also springtime. For example, the “ecclesial movements” are flourishing and there is movement toward a dynamically orthodox Catholic faith and life among the lay faithful. Christians believe in a linear timeline of God's plan in human history. This is all going somewhere; and that somewhere is into the fullness of Some One, Jesus Christ. In Him we are invited into the very life of the Trinitarian communion in the Church. Every man, woman and child on the face of the earth is invited. The Church is, as the early fathers used to say, the “world reconciled.”

    Saul's encounter with Jesus on the way to Damascus is instructive. Saul was a known persecutor of the early Church when he heard Jesus ask that probing question “Why do you persecute me?”: “On his ... journey, as he was nearing Damascus, a light from the sky suddenly flashed around him. He fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?" He said, "Who are you, sir?" The reply came, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.”” (Acts 9) Saul had never even met Jesus, at least during Our Lord's “earthly” ministry. He persecuted his followers. Yet, so identified was Jesus with His Church that He asked that question of Saul. Saul's response became the framework for his continuing conversion and apostolic mission. Jesus is still identified with His Church in our day.

    The Church is not some “thing”, outside of us, which we try to “fix” or have our “issues” with. Through our Baptism the Church becomes our home, our mother, the place in which we now live our lives in Christ. That is not to say we do not sometimes have struggles with our mother. However, she always remains our mother. To perceive, receive and to live this reality requires a continuing and dynamic conversion. We are sons and daughters of the Church. In living our lives in her we carry forward in time the continuing redemptive mission of Jesus Christ who is the Head of His Body. In its treatment of this “mystery” of the Church, the Catechism of the Catholic Church states:

    “845 To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son's Church. The Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation. The Church is "the world reconciled." She is that bark which "in the full sail of the Lord's cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world." According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah's ark, which alone saves from the flood. [St. Augustine, Serm. 96, 7, 9: PL 38, 588; St. Ambrose, De virg. 18, 118: PL 16, 297B; cf. already 1 Pet 3:20-21] [30, 953, 1219]”

    This Church is both human and divine; thus her members still sin. Sometimes evil enters and rots her from within. However, she is still the means through which we participate in the life of God. To her has been entrusted the Sacraments and the Word, the gift of a teaching office and the very means of salvation. The Church is not an optional “extra” that we add on to our lives, she is our life, because we live in Christ. From his wounded side she was birthed at the tree of Calvary, the altar of the new world. Through faith we are invited, daily, into this mystery and by grace we come to comprehend and live it.

    Let us pray for the victims of the horrid events which occurred in Ireland. Let us pray for the leaders of the Church and the faithful of that land which has given the world so many great Christian leaders like Patrick. Let us continue to love the Church enough to stay faithful and be a part of her purification and renewal in this time of travail. Like I said to my evangelical protestant friend, there is no “Plan B.” We are called to love the Church as we love the Lord.

    Deacon Keith Fournier asks that you join with us and help in this vital mission by sending this article to your family, friends, and neighbors and adding our link (www.catholic.org) to your own website, blog or social network. Let us broadcast, we are PROUD TO BE CATHOLIC!
    http://www.catholic.org/internationa...d=33615&page=1


    JoeT
  • Oct 28, 2009, 10:22 PM
    Maggie 3
    sndbay, I would like to add this, Gal. 2:19, "For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God."----

    When we trust in Jesus and win eternel place at God's side, we don't violate the law or somehow get around it. Jesus fulfilled the whole law, and by identifing with Him in His
    death and resurrection, we do to. (Not by man made laws)

    Gal.2:20
    "I have bee crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I live in the flesh I live by faith"...

    The secret to the Christian life is to allow Jesus Christ to live in and through you, by faith when you invite and allow the Hoiy Spirit to work in your life, you become a vital
    representative of Christ.

    Gal. 3:3 "Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?

    The entire Christian experience is to be lived by faith, from beginning to end. We are
    justified by grace though faith, we are sanctified by grace though faith, and we will be
    glorified by grace though faith.

    Gal. 3:13 "Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree")

    The law is a curse to us in that it condemns our sin and therefore condemns us.
    Jesus, the sinless Son of God, accepted our rightful condemnation and the punishment
    we deserved when He willing went to the cross.

    We live by faith not by man made laws.

    Blassings, Maggie 3
  • Oct 29, 2009, 05:08 AM
    sndbay
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JoeT777 View Post
    It would be great if you understood the quote presented as being Pope Benedict's; but it's not the Pope's. However, it makes a strong case for Catholics to identify with the “mother” Church, living in communion, to view the Church as the Mystical Body of Christ. It's a conversation by Deacon Keith A. Fournier written May 22, 2009 at Catholic Online. I'm afraid that somehow you mistook the Deacon's words for the Pope's. Atually, it appears you've taken quotes from two different articles. No foul, but in full fairness to Fournier the following is the full article not quoted. It should be read in context. (Forgive me for the long post – emphases are mine):

    [INDENT]Learning to Love the Church as we Love the Lord
    By Deacon Keith A. Fournier, 5/22/2009 Catholic Online (Catholic Online - Breaking News, World, U.S., Catholic, Diocese & Video News)

    JoeT

    I will respectfully acknowledge your reply with patiences. And redirect the facts by tolerance of good nature towards what was posted.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sndbay View Post
    Joe according to what I have recently review that was written by the Pope Benedict, the members within the Body of Christ known as being baptized into the Catholic church denomination, are all sinners that can or may find newness of life by a ongoing call to conversion.

    As Written concerning Pope Benedict, and the members within the body of Christ, known to be baptized into the Catholic Church...
    Joe, you, instead of answering the questions, decided to posted some other online Catholic news release titled. (Learning to Love the Church as we Love the Lord )

    I had addressed the one titled(Pope Benedict's 'Impelling Duty': Rebuild the Full and Visible Unity of the Church )By Deacon Keith Fournier 10/24/2009

    Subject as to why I implied Pope Benedict's and His views


    No further discussion is needed unless you care to answer the questions I originally posted.
  • Oct 29, 2009, 01:49 PM
    sndbay

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Maggie 3 View Post
    sndbay, I would like to add this, Gal. 2:19, "For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God."----

    Thank you Maggie, this is so true. We should boast of the Law of Faith, because the just shall live by faith. Those who walk in the Spirit, walk to follow Christ, and hear HIS Voice, do it all by ONE Faith.
    (Gal 3:11 Romans 3:28 Romans 3:27)


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Maggie 3 View Post
    We live by faith not by man made laws.

    Blassings, Maggie 3

    That is the point of this entire thread. Man does not increase members of the church, or their faith. But have shown they will attempt to decease us.

    1 Corinthians 3:7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.



    Man does not bring the revealed truth to our hearts, but can example a godly faith and love in conversation.

    Luke 17:5 And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith.

    All power was given unto Christ Jesus in heaven and earth. (Matthew 28:18) It is the Father in heaven that will quicken our mortal bodies and dwell in us (Romans 8:11)
    We are to be all that we were created to be through the Spirit of Truth in Christ Jesus.

    From the Jews being shown in deception from man as written in scripture teaching of (Jeremiah 17:5) and our Faith being foretold to trust in God (Jeremiah 17:7) because we will fall short if we follow man, and allow our heart an indication that we follow the ways of this earth rather then the will of God. (Jeremiaj 17:10)

    Our Faith should rest in our Lord, and not in man. (Matthew 11:29)

    And again from the scripture teaching offered in (1 Timothy 2:1 thr 3:13) that Fred mentioned about the church. Warning of causion in behavior, and how some turn away from truth, and overthrow Faith in One God to being a strange man following man.
    The clear interpretation of strange man would be as scripture indicates as estranged with man. (Psalm 81:9)

    We have but One Lord, One Faith, and One Baptism, and One God and Father..

    1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus


    ~in Christ
  • Oct 29, 2009, 02:43 PM
    Maggie 3

    Thank you sndbay for sharing the truth and being here for us.
    Love maggie 3
  • Oct 29, 2009, 05:54 PM
    JoeT777
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sndbay View Post
    From what is presented by the Pope, the baptism you speak of within the Kingdom of God is actually the Church. Thus the Kingdom of God is made up of sinners? That find redemption through the instruments of HIS sacraments?

    I don't understand, you cite several quotes and attribute them to the Pope; except the Pope didn't make these statements, they were comments made by Deacon Keith A. Fournier.

    In any event yes the Kingdom of God, the Catholic Church is made up of sinners; as is every church whether they wish to acknowledge it. Redemption is in Christ; thus being incorporated into the Mystical Body of Christ (The Catholic Church). As Deacon Keith A. Fournier said, “there is no plan 'B'” And, as stated in Athanasius' creed, “Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic Faith. Which Faith except everyone do keep whole and undefiled [orthodoxy], without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.” (Quicunque vult).

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sndbay View Post
    As Written concerning Pope Benedict, and the members within the body of Christ, known to be baptized into the Catholic Church...

    Joe, you, instead of answering the questions, decided to posted some other online Catholic news release titled. (Learning to Love the Church as we Love the Lord )

    I had addressed the one titled(Pope Benedict's 'Impelling Duty': Rebuild the Full and Visible Unity of the Church )By Deacon Keith Fournier 10/24/2009

    Subject as to why I implied Pope Benedict's and His views

    No further discussion is needed unless you care to answer the questions I originally posted.

    No you said “REFER Pope Benedict Quote:” One would expect what follows is a direct quote. It wasn't. What was quoted was written by Deacon Keith A. Fournier. These were his opinions. While I agree with them, they don't hold the same authority that a quote from the Pope would have. Furthermore you seemed to have quoted several lines from several different pieces written by Deacon Keith A. Fournier.

    I'm proud that you have a high regard for your own patience and tolerance; but at least while enduring me please suffer us with truth.

    JoeT
  • Oct 29, 2009, 11:47 PM
    arcura
    Joe,
    Thanks for posting that.
    We should also keep in mind that when we pray The Lord's Prayer we are asking "thy kingdom come"
    When Jesus taught that to his apostles The Church had not yet been established so he was teaching them to pray for it to come along later than at that time.
    Now we do have The Church, the mystical body of Christ, here on earth so that part of the prayer has been answered and continues to be so
    Peace and kindness,
    Fred.
  • Oct 30, 2009, 06:46 AM
    sndbay

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JoeT777 View Post
    In any event yes the Kingdom of God, the Catholic Church is made up of sinners; as is every church whether or not they wish to acknowledge it.

    Then I would ask you why Peter spoke these words that have said that all nations that work in righteousness, and fear God are accepted of God. Would you not agree that those working righteousness are not sinners, and those that hold a godly fear in God's hand of fire would be those that are not doing evil?

    Act 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

    The table that is prepared before all nations was Christ Jesus. His body and blood once and for all "Purged our sins", and set us free from the bondage of sin. Peter said, God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean. Why then would any church call people unclean when they have confess belief in Christ the begotten Son of God and acknowledge all He has given us?

    Psalms 23:3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

    1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    The new covenant was establish by the body and blood of Christ. God's promise which is offered in One Faith. We are sanctified through Christ. We acknowledge that being sanctified by the body and blood of Christ, is by the hand of God who has begotten again through Christ to be in likeness of the seventh day in which God sanctified as Holy.

    Whether we trust in God and walk in His light of rightoeusness depends on the individual's willingness to dead each day daily by not falling to temptation that surround them. Surrendering to do the will of God, and deny ourselves. The Holy Spirit is of righteousness within those sanctified. That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

    Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

    John 17:17-18-19 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

    Sinner Beware!
    Hebrew 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins

    Hebrew 10:38-39 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

    If we say we need not follow, if we say we have no need of the forgiveness, then we decease ourselves. REPENT and confess our sins. Sin no more!

    1 John 1:6-7-8-9 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son acleanseth us from all sin If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JoeT777 View Post
    “Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic Faith.

    There is only One Faith, One Lord, One Baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. I speak no lies but what is written in the volume of the Book.


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JoeT777 View Post

    I'm proud that you have a high regard for your own patience and tolerance; but at least while enduring me please suffer us with truth.

    JoeT

    Are you waxed cold and unable to recognize my love for Christ Jesus, and His words of truth which is what I confess in One Faith?

    John 10:27-28 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

    2 Timothy 3:12-13-14-15 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

    3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

    No sinner can say they walks in the light of God

    1 John 1:6-7 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

    ~in Christ
  • Oct 30, 2009, 07:20 AM
    sndbay
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by arcura View Post
    Joe,
    Thanks for posting that.
    We should also keep in mind that when we pray The Lord's Prayer we are asking "thy kingdom come"
    When Jesus taught that to his apostles The Church had not yet been established so he was teaching them to pray for it to come along later than at that time.
    Now we do have The Church, the mystical body of Christ, here on earth so that part of the prayer has been answered and continues to be so
    Peace and kindness,
    Fred.

    Matthew 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

    Luke 11:10 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

    Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

    Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

    Hear His Voice, in the volume of the Book

    ~in the Spirit
  • Oct 30, 2009, 10:21 AM
    gromitt82
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sndbay View Post
    The scripture message, that men are cursed to trust man, would be a comparison to the commandment of having no other gods. To permit flesh/man to be the arm they reach to and follow, would be entering temptation.

    Our Lord has promised to search the hearts of man. And in that search, Our Lord would see who man loves, what man treasures in life enough to make it the way of his life. What has man worked to achieve in his life.

    I reference the scripture as truth of The Word, Prophecies Addressed to Jews

    Jeremiah 17:5 Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.

    Jeremiah 17:10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

    How would you follow Christ Jesus? Why would you follow Christ? This thread could bring attention to the amazing truth of who Christ is in our daily life.

    I try to follow Jesus for a VERY SIMPLE REASON. JESUS IS GOD INCARNATE AND HE CAME TO EARTH TO SAVE MANKIND AND SHOW US WHAT WE HAVE TO DO TO REACH OUR SALVATION.

    His message, therefore, is tne final one and as such it supercedes and replaces whatever other messages we can find in the O.T.

    Gromitt82
  • Oct 30, 2009, 11:48 AM
    sndbay
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by gromitt82 View Post
    I try to follow Jesus for a VERY SIMPLE REASON. JESUS IS GOD INCARNATE AND HE CAME TO EARTH TO SAVE MANKIND AND SHOW US WHAT WE HAVE TO DO TO REACH OUR SALVATION.

    His message, therefore, is tne final one and as such it supercedes and replaces whatever other messages we can find in the O.T.

    Gromitt82

    I trust the History of the OT offers us wisdom and is referenced often in the NT. How God communicated in the OT with HIS chosen, and their obedience in doing HIS will should give us today an awareness of the importance in godly fear.

    God promised in the OT the Branch of Righteousness

    Jeremiah 33:15 In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land.

    And when you enter into the NT we read of how Faith that can be something unseen, can appear in many of those people told of in the OT. (Very descriptively written of in Hebrew 11)

    Hebrew 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

    The exception is what was in rememberance of Faith/OT and what would be through flesh in Christ in the NT. Faith would rest in The Righteous Branch that was promise OT, forward to NT known as the Vine, a seed of David, that is the manifested righteous flesh of God, in HIS begotten Son. And offered as a call in willingness and hope, to hold to that same ONE Faith still not seen but told of in HIS Son Christ Jesus, the One LORD.

    Jesus speaks of HIS Father that they have not known but He knows Him..
    (John 7:29 John 8:55)

    Romans 3:21-22-23-24-25-26 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus; Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.


    All written of in the Volume of the Book we know as the BIBLE witnessed and prophetised.

    1 John 1:2-3(For the life was manifested, and we have seen [it], and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us) That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship [is] with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

    ~in Christ
  • Oct 30, 2009, 05:43 PM
    arcura
    sndbay,
    Yes!
    Fred
  • Oct 30, 2009, 11:24 PM
    JoeT777
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sndbay View Post
    Then I would ask you why Peter spoke these words that have said that all nations that work in righteousness, and fear God are accepted of God.

    Quote:

    Would you not agree that those working righteousness are not sinners, and those that hold a godly fear in God's hand of fire would be those that are not doing evil?
    Act 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

    I separated these two statements because they raise two separate and distinct issues. The first raises the question of whether Peter was suggesting that 'righteous' nations allude to separate Christian faiths as being one church. It doesn't. The latter, is unrelated to the first except for its common use of righteousness, and seems to express the misunderstanding of what it means to be righteous.

    Referring to your first statement, in saying every nation, Luke was referring to Jews and Gentiles; that it is righteousness along with justice and fear of Him. Catholic doctrine working in fear of God and justice is taken for granted in Peter's words, “accepted with Him”; a virtuousness nature of men who populate these nations. This verse doesn't say that by simply believing in Christ will make you a nation or will make you into your very own faith. The verse presumes righteousness conforms to Christ's Mystical Body, he Catholic Church. After all, Judas was a righteous man, up till his fall.

    The second statement presumes that by 'faith alone' we achieve perfection in holiness. Then perfection would need to be proportional to the faith that we hold. Those with 'little' faith are saved just a little bit, and those with 'much' faith are saved a lot. We know that if God wills us to be righteous then we will be such. This, however is not the norm, it's a grace afforded to only one that I know of, Mary Mother of God. To this St. Augustine responds, “If God wished not that man should be without sin, He would not have sent His Son without sin, to heal men of their sins. This takes place in believers who are being renewed day by day, (2 Corinthians 4:16) until their righteousness becomes perfect, like fully restored health.” (St. Augustine, On Man's Perfection in Righteousness, 7) St. Augustine continues to allude to the fact that sin is like an illness in man, that full righteousness is only achieved when the illness is gone, “when there is fullness of love, for “love is the fulfilling of the law” (Romans 13:10) CHURCH FATHERS: On Man's Perfection in Righteousness (St. Augustine)
    Quote:

    The table that is prepared before all nations was Christ Jesus. His body and blood once and for all "Purged our sins", and set us free from the bondage of sin. Peter said, “God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.” Why then would any church call people unclean when they have confess belief in Christ the begotten Son of God and acknowledge all He has given us?
    In Acts 10:28 Peter is referring to unclean as 'defiled' in Mark 7:2,20. This is evident that the unclean is linked with 'common'. In antiquity, as it is today, commoners were thought of as being 'beneath' the elite. Unclean people ate unclean meats and were normally thought of as commoners by the Jews. Peter is discussing his realization that unclean food is acceptable to God and consequently should not be viewed as beneath him. You've drawn the wrong conclusion from this verse.

    Quote:

    Psalms 23:3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
    Yes! He leads me on a Journey and day by day I reach His Fullness of righteousness.

    Quote:

    1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    The new covenant was establish by the body and blood of Christ. God's promise which is offered in One Faith. We are sanctified through Christ. We acknowledge that being sanctified by the body and blood of Christ, is by the hand of God who has begotten again through Christ to be in likeness of the seventh day in which God sanctified as Holy.
    A new covenant was established and a new Kingdom, in fulfilling Christ's commission the Church communicates the promised grace of his Body and Blood in the Eucharist, “I am the bread of life…He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day” (John 6:48,55) We are sanctified in Christ, as adopted sons, not a regeneration but an inclusion into the Mystical Body of Christ through Baptism.


    Quote:

    … I confess in One Faith?
    I'm confused I know you're not Catholic so which of the 'One' faiths are we talking about? Reading out of a Bible doesn't make you of one faith. The bible makes no claim as the authority over itself or over faith. And the bible makes a very poor witness, it can't be cross-examined and asked what is meant by any one verse. How do you have One Faith without the discipline of one authority? How do you have One Faith that denies that man can hold the grace of holiness, but rather is an abject depraved creature and for salvation must become a mind numbed Christ-O-Bot, who somehow is made sinless, without a blemish, and to believe such of himself but not of the Mother of God? How do you have One Faith, that isn't universal, meant only for the elite? How do you have one faith without the teachings of the Apostles?

    JoeT
  • Oct 30, 2009, 11:42 PM
    hamsterlovera

    I worship christ I am a teen he helps me in many tough spots of life I pray to him and he answers it may sound crazy but one time I saw him in a vision and he spoke to me I'm not crazy he works in many ways and he has changed my life and the lives of many others I know
  • Oct 31, 2009, 08:16 AM
    sndbay

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JoeT777 View Post
    Act 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

    I separated these two statements because they raise two separate and distinct issues. The first raises the question of whether Peter was suggesting that 'righteous' nations allude to separate Christian faiths as being one church. It doesn't. The latter, is unrelated to the first except for its common use of righteousness, and seems to express the misunderstanding of what it means to be righteous.

    Referring to your first statement, in saying every nation, Luke was referring to Jews and Gentiles; that it is righteousness along with justice and fear of Him. Catholic doctrine working in fear of God and justice is taken for granted in Peter's words, “accepted with Him”; a virtuousness nature of men who populate these nations. This verse doesn't say that by simply believing in Christ will make you a nation or will make you into your very own faith. The verse presumes righteousness conforms to Christ's Mystical Body, he Catholic Church. After all, Judas was a righteous man, up till his fall.

    Joe look at the verse before that of (Acts 10:35) Luke is telling of Peter's ministry with others.

    Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

    This is in reference of Peter that opened his mouth (and began as the scripture, and preaching to all present here before God, to hear all things that are commanded to them of God.) Refer: 10:33

    Remember that scripture is the Word of God that is spoken through Peter, and how this knowledge was known to Peter. (Acts 4:13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus .) The Word of God in flesh

    The spirit of truth being fed was that all may come into the house of the Lord to be One with Christ. What is acceptable children with Him is godly fear and righteousness in obedience. The same Word of Scripture fed to them by Christ Jesus (Luke 4:17-18-19)

    Righteousness is show to God by the heart of man. And God searches the hearts of men by the inward appearance.


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JoeT777 View Post
    The second statement presumes that by 'faith alone' we achieve perfection in holiness. Then perfection would need to be proportional to the faith that we hold. Those with 'little' faith are saved just a little bit, and those with 'much' faith are saved a lot. We know that if God wills us to be righteous then we will be such. This, however is not the norm, it's a grace afforded to only one that I know of, Mary Mother of God. To this St. Augustine responds, “If God wished not that man should be without sin, He would not have sent His Son without sin, to heal men of their sins. This takes place in believers who are being renewed day by day, (2 Corinthians 4:16) until their righteousness becomes perfect, like fully restored health.” (St. Augustine, On Man's Perfection in Righteousness, 7) St. Augustine continues to allude to the fact that sin is like an illness in man, that full righteousness is only achieved when the illness is gone, “when there is fullness of lov, for “love is the fulfilling of the law” (Romans 13:10) CHURCH FATHERS: On Man's Perfection in Righteousness (St. Augustine)

    Joe we should not declare a doctrine other then that of Christ Jesus. (Deu 32:2)

    Deu 34:18 Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee.

    Servants of Christ Jesus preach for the sake of Christ not themselves. And all praise and glory is shown to the power of God.

    2 Corinthians 4:5-6-7 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

    Joe there is a day by day nourishment offered to the inward man. (2 Corinthians 4:16) Perhaps you should review what The Word of God says concerning the inward man.

    "The Inward Man" (Rom. 7:22; 2 Cor. 4:16; Eph. 3:16).
    This is the opposite of "the outward man" which perishes day by day, while this "inward man is renewed day by day"

    We are being nourished and replenished day by day with grace and strength by the Holy Spirit; so that Christ can dwells in the heart by faith (Eph. 3:16) We learn something of His love which passeth knowledge, and are filled with all the fulness of God

    Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

    Parable of the wine bottle (Luke 5:37) The outward man, of old can not please God. That outward man of old must perish. And the outward man is doomed as is satan. You can not put the new with the old because then too the new will perish.


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JoeT777 View Post
    In Acts 10:28 Peter is referring to unclean as 'defiled' in Mark 7:2,20. This is evident that he unclean is linked with 'common'. In antiquity, as it is today, commoners were thought of as being 'beneath' the elite. Unclean people ate unclean meats and were normally thought of as commoners by the Jews. Peter is discussing his realization that unclean food is acceptable to God and consequently should not be viewed as beneath him. You've drawn the wrong conclusion from this verse.

    This is not about meat, it is about men..

    Acts 10:28
    And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

    The Gentile men were sent to Peter by God and God had gifted them with the Holy Spirit. Don't judge the outward appearance of man and what they eat was the teaching.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JoeT777 View Post
    A new covenant was established and a new Kingdom, in fulfilling Christ's commission the Church communicates the promised grace of his Body and Blood in the Eucharist, “I am the bread of life…He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day” (John 6:48,55) We are sanctified in Christ, as adopted sons, not a regeneration but an inclusion into the Mystical Body of Christ through Baptism.


    Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

    Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.



    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JoeT777 View Post

    I'm confused I know you're not Catholic so which of the 'One' faiths are we talking about? Reading out of a Bible doesn't make you of one faith. The bible makes no claim as the authority over itself or over faith. And the bible makes a very poor witness, it can't be cross-examined and asked what is meant by any one verse. How do you have One Faith without the discipline of one authority? How do you have One Faith that denies that man can hold the grace of holiness, but rather is an abject depraved creature and for salvation must become a mind numbed Christ-O-Bot, who somehow is made sinless, without a blemish, and to believe such of himself but not of the Mother of God? How do you have One Faith, that isn't universal, meant only for the elite? How do you have one faith without the teachings of the Apostles?

    JoeT

    Joe who did the apostles ask to increase their faith? It is God that reveals the spirit of truth, just as it is written concerning Peter who knew the truth of our Lord Jesus the begotten Son of God. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase

    Hebrew 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

    And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work: (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever. Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness)


    No man will ever take my heart of love from Christ

    Hebrew 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
  • Oct 31, 2009, 08:45 AM
    sndbay

    2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

    Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

    Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of HIM that created him



    Spirit of Adoption


    Romans 8:11-14 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

    ~in Christ
  • Oct 31, 2009, 09:17 AM
    gromitt82
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sndbay View Post
    I trust the History of the OT offers us wisdom and is referenced often in the NT. How God communicated in the OT with HIS chosen, and their obedience in doing HIS will should give us today an awareness of the importance in godly fear.

    God promised in the OT the Branch of Righteousness

    Jeremiah 33:15 In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land.

    And when you enter into the NT we read of how Faith that can be something unseen, can appear in many of those people told of in the OT. (Very descriptively written of in Hebrew 11)

    Hebrew 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

    The exception is what was in rememberance of Faith/OT and what would be through flesh in Christ in the NT. Faith would rest in The Righteous Branch that was promise OT, forward to NT known as the Vine, a seed of David, that is the manifested righteous flesh of God, in HIS begotten Son. And offered as a call in willingness and hope, to hold to that same ONE Faith still not seen but told of in HIS Son Christ Jesus, the One LORD.

    Jesus speaks of HIS Father that they have not known but He knows Him..
    (John 7:29 John 8:55)

    Romans 3:21-22-23-24-25-26 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus; Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.


    All written of in the Volume of the Book we know as the BIBLE witnessed and prophetised.

    1 John 1:2-3(For the life was manifested, and we have seen [it], and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us) That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship [is] with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

    ~in Christ

    Of course, you are perfectly right in what you say.

    Perhaps I should have made myself clearer by adding to what I write "His message, therefore, is tne final one and as such it supercedes and replaces whatever other messages we can find in the O.T, WHEN THEY IMPLY OR SUGGEST CONCEPTS AND/OR MESSAGES THAT MAY DIFFER IN PART OR TOTALLY FROM JESUS'MESSAGE.
    This is what I actually meant when I said Jesus' words are final!
    Gromitt82
  • Oct 31, 2009, 09:40 AM
    sndbay
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by gromitt82 View Post
    Of course, you are perfectly right in what you say.

    Perhaps I should have made myself clearer by adding to what I write "His message, therefore, is tne final one and as such it supercedes and replaces whatever other messages we can find in the O.T, WHEN THEY IMPLY OR SUGGEST CONCEPTS AND/OR MESSAGES THAT MAY DIFFER IN PART OR TOTALLY FROM JESUS'MESSAGE.
    This is what I actually meant when I said Jesus' words are final!
    Gromitt82

    Jesus is the Word of God made flesh. (John 1:14) The Word was with God and was God from the beginning (John 1:1)

    I only suggest that all that was written is spoke by God, the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. In that we can gain wisdom, and trust to surrender in obedience.

    2 John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son
  • Oct 31, 2009, 06:05 PM
    arcura
    JoeT,
    You did a good job explaining that well.
    I add that The Church is the authority that upholds the authority of the bible.
    Peace and kindness,
    Fred
  • Oct 31, 2009, 10:28 PM
    JoeT777
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sndbay View Post
    Joe look at the verse before that of (Acts 10:35) Luke is telling of Peter's ministry with others.

    Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

    This is in reference of Peter that opened his mouth (and began as the scripture, and preaching to all present here before God, to hear all things that are commanded to them of God.) Refer: 10:33

    No it doesn't mean that he began to speak scripture. Let's try this thing with Acts 10 one more time.

    “He opened his mouth” is a literary form of saying, pay attention, someone important is about to speak. In this case, Peter who is first Apostle among equals is pronouncing something dramatic to the Jew's who followed Christian sect. This is a big deal to Jew and gentile alike regarding being common or unclean for eating certain meats. Flash to Peter in Joppe, Peter went to his roof at the sixth hour (I think that's midnight). Hunger came over Peter. As the house staff was preparing his Jewish Dagwood sandwich Peter had a vision; a large tablecloth came down from heaven, opened up to reveal all manner of crawling and animals with cloven hooves. Peter was told to kill and eat. Well, this didn't set well with this Jewish fisherman, who wouldn't dream of eating one bite of St. Louis barbecue, or anything unclean. Peter said, “Far be it from me. For I never did eat any thing that is common and unclean.” (Acts 10:14) A voice spoke to Peter again: “That which God hath cleansed, do not thou call common. “ This vision isn't about men nor is it about barbecue. “What God hath cleansed, do not call common.” Why was Peter the recipient of this vision? Why not Simon or Cornelius? The reason is obvious.

    The First among equal Apostles, Peter, was about to make one of those earth shattering announcements. The fledgling sect of Jews, which were to be called Catholic, announces to the Jewish world that it's OK to eat common and unclean foods. For the first time Peter could enjoy Memphis barbecue without sinning – as long as he understands that St. Louis type is still banned down here (for good reason).

    The author is telling us something about how important this revelation is and, in doing so, he is telling us something about Peter. Peter is making an authoritative announcement:I don't believe this was first doctrinal announcement by the Vicar of Christ (maybe the second or third). By Luke telling us that Peter is opening his mouth he is takeing a literary form of saying 'pay attention' someone with authority is speaking to us. And who was this someone? Peter the first among Vicars of Christ.

    Quote:

    Remember that scripture is the Word of God that is spoken through Peter, and how this knowledge was known to Peter. (Acts 4:13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marveled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus .) The Word of God in flesh

    The spirit of truth being fed was that all may come into the house of the Lord to be One with Christ. What is acceptable children with Him is godly fear and righteousness in obedience. The same Word of Scripture fed to them by Christ Jesus (Luke 4:17-18-19)

    Righteousness is show to God by the heart of man. And God searches the hearts of men by the inward appearance.

    Joe we should not declare a doctrine other then that of Christ Jesus. (Deu 32:2)

    Deu 34:18 Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee.

    Servants of Christ Jesus preach for the sake of Christ not themselves. And all praise and glory is shown to the power of God.

    2 Corinthians 4:5-6-7 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
    How all this is germane to Acts 10 escapes me - it distorts the meaning of scripture. In fact it bruises the scriptures; remember one Truth, one Christ, One Church.

    Quote:

    Joe there is a day by day nourishment offered to the inward man. (2 Corinthians 4:16) Perhaps you should review what The Word of God says concerning the inward man.

    "The Inward Man" (Rom. 7:22; 2 Cor. 4:16; Eph. 3:16).
    This is the opposite of "the outward man" which perishes day by day, while this "inward man is renewed day by day"

    We are being nourished and replenished day by day with grace and strength by the Holy Spirit; so that Christ can dwells in the heart by faith (Eph. 3:16) We learn something of His love which passeth knowledge, and are filled with all the fulness of God

    Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

    Parable of the wine bottle (Luke 5:37) The outward man, of old can not please God. That outward man of old must perish. And the outward man is doomed as is satan. You can not put the new with the old because then too the new will perish.

    This is not about meat, it is about men..

    Acts 10:28
    And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

    The Gentile men were sent to Peter by God and God had gifted them with the Holy Spirit. Don't judge the outward appearance of man and what they eat was the teaching.


    Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

    Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

    Joe who did the apostles ask to increase their faith? It is God that reveals the spirit of truth, just as it is written concerning Peter who knew the truth of our Lord Jesus the begotten Son of God. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase

    Hebrew 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

    And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work: (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever. Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness)


    No man will ever take my heart of love from Christ

    Hebrew 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
    These tangential arguments don't change the fact that the nourishment offered by Christ can't be misunderstood in scripture. It's in plain simple language; I thought you were a 'scripture only' Christian. Everlasting life can only be obtained in communion with the body and blood of Christ.

    I am the bread of life. Your fathers did eat manna in the desert: and are dead. This is the bread which cometh down from heaven: that if any man eat of it, he may not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, for the life of the world. The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying: How can this man give us his flesh to eat? Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen, I say unto you: except you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood abideth in me: and I in him. As the living Father hath sent me and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, the same also shall live by me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Not as your fathers did eat manna and are dead. He that eateth this bread shall live for ever. (John 6:48 seqq.)

    Does this scandalize you?

    JoeT

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