If I'm wrong with what I've written below, tell me and I will disappear forever from this Board.

My understanding, after reading the rules, is that anyone can question/answer Christianity topics. Being a member of this church or that church is not a requirement. Even less is it a requirement to be "born again".

And, it is absolutely NOT required to proselytize for one's faith. An atheist can post here as well as a committed Christian. Although I'm not an atheist, I recognize many atheists are well-schooled in comparative religion.

If, after reading the rules, some disagree, please lay out your cogent arguments in support of your position. Thanks.

I agree definitely.

Not only that, part of being a christian, is being accepting and NON JUDGEMENTAL

You are correct and I agree. Sadly many others will not, even though the rules state exactly what you said.

The Christianity forum is a fight waiting to happen 99% of the time.

Everyone has differing beliefs, even the Christians don't always agree with each other.

I don't think I've ever seen a Christianity thread go to the end on it's own, the majority are shut down because of fights, name calling etc.

But, yes, anyone can post on this forum, no matter what they believe. :)

The subject of a forum does not, in any way, restrict participation to that forum. Electricians can answer Plumbing questions and vice versa. Computer experts can answer Law questions ;)

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Originally Posted by Athos

And, it is absolutely NOT required to proselytize for one's faith.

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I will take this one step further, proselytizing is distinctly frowned on. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs and we are very much about respecting people's rights to believe in what they want to. Denigrating one's beliefs because they don't conform to your own should be reported and will be dealt with. Promoting your onw beliefs to the exclusion of all others is not nice.

I agree with the other posts. People tend to take their religion, or lack thereof, very personally. Even though I'm a Christian, I realize that many people in this world are not and I would never berate, harass or otherwise intimidate someone whose beliefs were different from mine. I might respectfully disagree with someone but that's about it. And I certainly don't take it personally if someone disagrees with me. I know what I believe and why I believe it. I'm certainly willing to discuss (but not argue) it with any willing participant.

And simply because someone comes on here and posts who has the word "expert" after their name should not make them immune from being criticized for making false or misleading comments. Same as us regular folks. Just because they have laid claim to being an expert in one subject does not make them an expert in all topics. I have seen some really dumb comments and actions by the "experts" that if it were anybody else their comments would have been deleted.
In my opinion all are free to comment, If a person comes onto the Christian boards simply to argue against what was posted and has no scriptural backup for their comments we should be able to refute or ignore it.

I certainly enjoy posts from other faiths and I have no problem with discussions. I did suggest when answering on the Christian board and you are NOT a christian you might want to let the OP know as they are LOOKING for Christian responses... or else they would post elsewhere. I got a big fat reddie for that one.. lol! So OK fine it was a suggestion that is all.

I can only speak for myself, I want others to post here. I will disagree with you if I think you are wrong. There are plenty of Christians I disagree with too. So what? What is wrong with disagreeing and not everyone seeing eye to eye? It IS going to happen. We don't need to get nasty. If I HAVE been then I apologize.

Alty, actually not all Christian posts are shut down... I have started a few that ended without a fight... it CAN happen. :)

Hello A:

I'm an athiest/Jew/exconvict/troublemaker. That don't stop me from stirring things up over there, and I do.

excon

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

The subject of a forum does not, in any way, restrict participation to that forum. Electricians can answer Plumbing questions and vice versa. Computer experts can answer Law questions ;)

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OK, but if I post something that isn't correct then I shouldn't be surprised if someone disagrees with me. Am I right or am I wrong? I don't usually run around given reddies to people... I just disagree and say why I do. Is this a violation?

I think most of the time people play devil's advocate in order to get us thinking in a more broad direction. However, as a pagan myself, I have little or no desire to post on the Christianity board unless a christian is asking people not of the same faith to answer a question from outside the box, so to speak. I just noticed there is no forum for pagan under religion, and the other religions area seems to have things that aren't really focused on a topic. Maybe I should ask about that one just for me. Resident pagan and earth lover. Heh.

However, having said that. I went to a private christian school for 7 years, have read the Bible completely through somewhere around 7 times now, and can discuss Biblical theology with the best of 'em. Should I HAVE to be excluded from a discussion that interests me if I am genuinely interested?

I think if you respect the topic then it can in SOME instances be okay, but mainly just for theological discussion if your religion doesn't include in some way Christianity. If someone were asking spiritual advice though, as a non-Christian, I'd bow out.

I hope that made sense. Some people just like to debate it.

I will play "devil's advocate" here and say that questions that are asked directly about a specific religion or a specific book written on that religion should be answered knowledgeably by those that can answer in such a way.

No, I am not saying that only certain faiths can answer those questions but if someone asks "What does the Bible say about this?" It should be answered with what the Bible says about that... and not necessarily why others don't agree with it.

(Although, I have to admit, I may have been a little hypocritical about this at times :o )

EDIT: I suppose this would have to exclude different interpretations of the said books or religions.

Everyone should understand that Christians who take their mandate seriously are going to be competetive. They will use a combination of Scripture and reason to justify their position.

That is going to be called preaching by some.

It will be called hate by a few.

But how can it be called a Christianity board if Christians are not allowed to present their full beliefs for all to see?

If it is censored in the name of being polite or politically correct, then it has lost its reason for being.

Or at least, that is what I think.

I don't think anyone is saying it should be censored.

And yes, let them preach. But if it comes to that, you have to understand that there are those of us out there that feel the same desire to bring others to a common belief... using the same Scripture and reason.

Hello again:

galveston agrees: Yes. There's no one here I would rather argue with than you.

You know, gal and I don't agree on NOTHING, except how to be respectful to one another - and THAT'S why it works.

excon

Quote:

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Originally Posted by excon

You know, gal and I don't agree on NOTHING, except how to be respectful to one another - and THAT'S why it works.

excon

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Could you imagine what it would be like if we were ALL that way? :eek: :confused:

Thanks, Ex!

Can I take this moment to commend some of you dedicated Christian posters in your INSANE ability to whip out corresponding scripture in a moments notice!

:D

I don't care who you are.. that is impressive.

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Originally Posted by DrJizzle

Can I take this moment to commend some of you dedicated Christian posters in your INSANE ability to whip out corresponding scripture in a moments notice!!

:D

I don't care who you are.. that is impressive.

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Well, thanks, but I can't take too much credit. I cheat. I have a good Bible program on my computer.:)

I personally, in my own honest opinion, think that maybe the mods should disable the 'rate' button for the religeon boards. There are just too many confliction veiws and OPINIONS, and people are getting reddies for disagreeing, and that is against the rules is it not?

Dang, you guys get really into this. It's almost like the debates in the chat rooms. *gag*

No matter how they change the board it would probably stay the same. Faith based religion is an easy target for people who have a deep or next to no understanding of the common principles.

A person can use the Bible itself to contradict and distort truth. There are guidelines though, for yanno, the good hearted ones 1 Tim chapter 4 does explain it pretty well. I've heard preachers say the devil likes to go to church too, he did know God after all. If you look at Christianity and cite the religion within its historical accuracy.I think it comes down to respect and belief, when differing opinion clash, all hell breaks lose?

More to the point, is it ethical and respectful for a person like me, openly a non-christian, so come to these forums and stick my foot in on a faith that I obviously disagree with at least on some level, otherwise I would be a Christian. Personally, nope. But I sure do find the Bible and believers to be fascinating and informative.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chey5782

More to the point, is it ethical and respectful for a person like me, openly a non-christian, so come to these forums and stick my foot in on a faith that I obviously disagree with at least on some level,

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Hello again, C:

Sure it is. I do it all the time. The MORE you disagree, the livelier the debate - unless you disagree disagreeably.

excon

Athos,
I do agree with most of those who have answered here so far.
But I disagree with those who come here just be trouble makers.
However, stirring a boiling pot can keep the contents from burning or scorching so it is sometimes necessary.
Simmer awhile on that thought.
Peace and kindness,
Fred.

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Originally Posted by jenniepepsi

i personally, in my own honest opinion, think that maybe the mods should disable the 'rate' button for the religeon boards. there are just too many confliction veiws and OPINIONS, and people are getting reddies for disagreeing, and that is against the rules is it not?

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I disagree. The guidelines for using the Comments feature are such that negative comments should ONLY be used to correct a factually incorrect post. Therefore it should not be used for matters of opinion. For example, if someone were to post a totally inaccurate biblical quote, it would be appropriate to give a negative comment correcting the quote. But if someone expressed their interpretation of a biblical quote, a negative comment would not be appropriate.

Please feel free to report negative comments that you feel are inappropriate. But if the comments feature is used correctly, then there is no reason to remove it.

There are Christians who express their opinions in an informative and thoughtful way. They teach me things.Then there are those who are uh, rigid? They are sticking to their narrow path and that's okay as long as they do not bash or attempt to control with their version of the truth.

I can't remember who said it or when, (really helpful, I know) but on this site, that non-Christians need to stay off the Christian board because they are "only there to stir up trouble."

So, being Pagan, I've stayed away. There is plenty of Christian judgement and control elsewhere. Political correctness should have its own board too, just so I could avoid some of it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

I disagree. The guidelines for using the Comments feature are such that negative comments should ONLY be used to correct a factually incorrect post. Therefore it should not be used for matters of opinion. For example, if someone were to post a totally inaccurate biblical quote, it would be appropriate to give a negative comment correcting the quote. But if someone expressed their interpretation of a biblical quote, a negative comment would not be appropriate.

Please feel free to report negative comments that you feel are inappropriate. But if the comments feature is used correctly, then there is no reason to remove it.

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Scottgem, just reading some of the replies here should tell you that this section of AMHD needs revision.

First, the box invites a person to RATE.
Second, when the rate box is clicked, it changes to ACCURACY.
Third, when that is submitted, it changes again to AGREE or DISAGREE.
Thus, there are three different meanings for one action.

Finally, in case a person wasn't confused enough, the brand-new issue of "reddies" and "greenies" comes up!

In your post above, the idea of a "rating" has been changed once again to the idea of "fact checking" - related, but not identical.

(I still don't know the purpose of "balancer" or who invented that, but I've only been here two years or so.)

Why don't you (not you personally, the owners) just say what you mean?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jenniepepsi

i personally, in my own honest opinion, think that maybe the mods should disable the 'rate' button for the religeon boards. there are just too many confliction veiws and OPINIONS, and people are getting reddies for disagreeing, and that is against the rules is it not?

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I actually agree here. I think that the rating options should be disabled for the religion boards.

Most people give reddies out of spite because they do not agree with certain scriptures or how it is interpreted. Religion is a whole new ball game can not sit there and state this is accurate or not, because it all depends on the persons take and belief and certain views on each. With the bible it is open to discussion. Can not say fact or fiction because a lot of religion has to do with faith.

I AGREE. Disable the rating system for religion boards because usually these boards get so nasty and rude and people use that rating function more of a revenge reddy system then anything else.

But at the end of the day, there can not be hatred posts, lets say purely anti mormon, or anti catholic, such as calling one of both demons of the anti christ.

Or making fun of the faith,

Also if there is a serious question about beliefs in the christian faith, a post going against christian teachings would not be allowed any more than a post in the Muslim section filled with hate about terrorists. Or a post in the plumbing section attacking the use of plumbing.
If a poster comes to the Christian section wanting a answer from Christians on a teaching, a post answering that which merely says Christianty is false would never be allowed

Answers should be from a christian perspective, those asking questions need not be christian.

Debates need to be on the discussion groups

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

But at the end of the day, there can not be hatred posts, lets say purely anti mormon, or anti catholic, such as calling one of both demons of the anti christ.

Or making fun of the faith,

Also if there is a serious question about beliefs in the christian faith, a post going against christian teachings would not be allowed any more than a post in the Muslim section filled with hate about terrorists. Or a post in the plumbing section attacking the use of plumbing.
If a poster comes to the Christian section wanting a answer from Christians on a teaching, a post answering that which merely says Christianty is false would never be allowed

answers should be from a christian perspective, those asking questions need not be christian.

debates need to be on the discussion groups

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With all do respect. There are many Christians that have different perspectives and different ideas and different thoughts and just because that is the case does not make one better then the other. Although that comes out on the boards very much. There is a lot of nastiness that happens because Christians can not agree with other Christians.

Time and Time again, a question that anybody has about religion and Christianity has turned into big debates and discussions on pretty much every single thread. People are getting tired of it. It should not be happening but does.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Athos

Scottgem, just reading some of the replies here should tell you that this section of AMHD needs revision.

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First, I do agree with you that there can be some confusion with the Rating feature. Especially the change from accuracy to agreement. I've advocated changes to this.

But, its not as bad as you paint it. Yes, a member is asked to "Rate This Answer". When they choose to do so, they are presented with a choice to rate it according to accuracy. And they are required to explain their rating. I really don't see much of a problem with that. The real problem occurs when the rating is posted and it turns to agree or disagree. But even that has a place because members can reinforce an answer by adding a comment that it is accurate.

The balancer idea came because a negative comment does affect the poster's reputation points so having both a negative and positive comment, balances out. Personally I feel the reputation points are ridiculous, but that's the way the system works. Remember that we use a BBS system developed by other people and, though we have a lot of capability to customize, we have to work within the framework of the system.

As to my post changing anything. I wrote the guidelines for using this feature over three years ago (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/forum-...nes-24951.html) so nothing has changed.

I will also point out that while you criticize the way the feature currently works, you make no suggestions on how to improve it. The admins and Mods of this site are constantly tweaking things to make this site work better. We welcome suggestions to improve this site (see the Feedback forum). But unless you have ideas on how to improve the features, being critical doesn't help things.

I will also point out that this is primarily a Q&A site. This forum, as well as the other forums under the Religion area are for asking questions about a religion, questions that can and should be answered according with factual information. We have a separate area for discussions. I am aware, of course, that threads are opened here that should be in the discussion area (so report them and they will be moved) or that the original question may lead to a discussion (i.e. heated debate or arguments) of the answers. That is the nature of the beast.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

But at the end of the day, there can not be hatred posts, lets say purely anti mormon, or anti catholic, such as calling one of both demons of the anti christ.

Or making fun of the faith,

Also if there is a serious question about beliefs in the christian faith, a post going against christian teachings would not be allowed any more than a post in the Muslim section filled with hate about terrorists. Or a post in the plumbing section attacking the use of plumbing.
If a poster comes to the Christian section wanting a answer from Christians on a teaching, a post answering that which merely says Christianty is false would never be allowed

answers should be from a christian perspective, those asking questions need not be christian.

debates need to be on the discussion groups

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Then when people start speaking up about this. It seems they get the long stick of the arm of the law because everything is turning into discussions and debates when it should not be. Everybody is getting sick of nothing getting done about it. It is really getting out of hand.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

I disagree. The guidelines for using the Comments feature are such that negative comments should ONLY be used to correct a factually incorrect post. Therefore it should not be used for matters of opinion. For example, if someone were to post a totally inaccurate biblical quote, it would be appropriate to give a negative comment correcting the quote. But if someone expressed their interpretation of a biblical quote, a negative comment would not be appropriate.

Please feel free to report negative comments that you feel are inappropriate. But if the comments feature is used correctly, then there is no reason to remove it.

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And therein lies the problem Scott. The rules/guidelines for the proper use of the rating system are so berried that it is nearly impossible for the average newby to find them. So why not place the rules as a sticky at the top of each forum?

In general it is normally 2 or 3 people, one or two so called christian, and one or two non christians, or christians with other beliefs, that pick each others posts apart, then cut and paste ( why does anyone need to even do that) each line and respond a answer to each iine..

And then they repost and repost their same info time and time again.

This is how it is and has been on answer sites and unless you put everyone on a moderated status, really little to do.

Most merely post in my opinion to cause trouble, but you can't prove it

And almost the only time these threads get reported is when the same 3 or 4 people just keep reporting each other.

Normally most christian and to be honest most threads in many subjects all go down hill after the 2nd or 3rd page.
Since they turn from question and ansewrs to discussions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

First, I do agree with you that there can be some confusion with the Rating feature. Especially the change from accuracy to agreement. I've advocated changes to this.

But, its not as bad as you paint it. Yes, a member is asked to "Rate This Answer". When they choose to do so, they are presented with a choice to rate it according to accuracy. And they are required to explain their rating. I really don't see much of a problem with that. The real problem occurs when the rating is posted and it turns to agree or disagree. But even that has a place because members can reinforce an answer by adding a comment that it is accurate.

.

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Have to totally disagree with you again Scott. I personally have had replies deleted for simply pointing out to an "expert' who should know better, their incorrect use of the rating system. It gets really tiresome to point out errors to the "protected" people and have your posts disappear. I have also had "experts" make false accusations toward me personally with no recourse because it was a FALSE use of the rating system, so it cannot be deleted or removed. Everybody needs to be held to the same standards with regards to the use of the rating system, not just us regular folks!

To be honest, this thread is in the wrong place, since it is now a discussion thread, not a question and answer about christian issues.

Maybe a moderator should take over that is how do I say neutral. Maybe more then one moderator in those areas are needed.?

As Fr. Chuck said this website is not the only website that has major issues and problems with the religion or christianity forum. It is a lot of question websites that all have the same issues.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

This forum, as well as the other forums under the Religion area are for asking questions about a religion, questions that can and should be answered according with factual information.

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I think herein lies the problem. Yes, there are a few questions that are asked that can be answered with FACTUAL information on a Religious board. But, for the most part, there are no factual answers that can be given. It all comes down to interpretation.

So when someone gives THEIR interpretation, another comes along to give theirs... then another.. and another.. then they each have to try to explain or "prove" their interpretation to be the correct one. And we end up with a dozen pages of babble with usually nothing accomplished.

Unfortunately, similar to what Scott had said, we can all complain but who has any suggestions? I personally believe that, try as we might, the human race has not been able to solve this situation in thousands of years and I don't think we stand a chance of solving it ourselves.

Regardless, this is the way it is. This is the way it has to be. All we can do is do our VERY best to keep our emotions low, our intelligence high, and our minds open.

R-E-S-P-E-C-T

Easier said than done... but doable.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

I will also point out that while you criticize the way the feature currently works, you make no suggestions on how to improve it.

I will also point out that this is primarily a Q&A site. This forum, as well as the other forums under the Religion area are for asking questions about a religion, questions that can and should be answered according with factual information. We have a separate area for discussions. I am aware, of course, that threads are opened here that should be in the discussion area (so report them and they will be moved) or that the original question may lead to a discussion (i.e. heated debate or arguments) of the answers. That is the nature of the beast.

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But I did make a suggestion - eliminate the rating thing on the Christianity board. It is found in my agreement to Jenniepepsi's original idea on page 1. (I guess you missed it).

As to your second point, the idea that questions do not, or should not, lead to discussion (on the same page) is strange, indeed. All answers, especially on a religion board, need to be supported and/or defended. Discussion is how this is done. Religion, per se, can never be answered with factual information since its very core is rooted in faith, not facts. This applies to ALL religions. I grant you some questions/answers can be factual - In what country is the Vatican located? But the essence of religion is not fact-based.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Altenweg

I agree, sadly the same people abuse the system over and over again with no repercussions.

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Agreed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jesushelper76

Maybe a moderator should take over that is how do I say neutral. Maybe more then one moderator in those areas are needed.?

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Good suggestions.

Quote:

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As Fr. Chuck said this website is not the only website that has major issues and problems with the religion or christianity forum. It is a lot of question websites that all have the same issues.

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There are also many that do not. The difference from what I have seen is fair and reasonable rules, and fair and consistent enforcement regardless of who the person is and regardless of whether the person has a friend on staff or not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

Also if there is a serious question about beliefs in the christian faith, a post going against christian teachings would not be allowed.

answers should be from a christian perspective, those asking questions need not be christian.

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I believe you have a serious misunderstanding of what your role as a moderator is here.

Just which Christian teachings would you allow? There are many different teachings. In any case, it is not your role to arbitrate among Christian teachings. This is so fundamental for a moderator, I'm surprised it needs to be said.

And what is a Christian perspective? Yours? Ok, define it so we all know what we're dealing with.

You say that "those ASKING [my emphasis] questions need not be Christian". The clear implication is that those ANSWERING questions MUST be Christian! Clearly a violation of the rules and what other experts have said in this thread.

If you have an agenda as a moderator, it should be clearly stated. I think your post does just that, inadvertently. If nothing else is achieved by this thread, your stated position in this thread will be noted, I hope, by those in authority here.

This does help explain why my early posts were deleted by you without explanation. And when I asked, you replied in a message to me that you had SUSPICIONS!! I was banned/warned because of your SUSPICIONS, not anything I had actually DONE or WRITTEN.