Leviticus 18:22 You shall lot lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination (NAS) Do not practice homosexuality; it is a detestable practice. (NLT)
Leviticus 18:30 Thus you are to keep My charge that you do not practice any of the abominable customs which have been practiced before you, so that you do not defile yourselves with them; I am the Lord your God. (NAS)
So be careful to obey my laws, and do not practice any of these detestable activities. Do not defile yourselves by doing any of them, for I, the Lord am your God. (NLT)
So if I am reading this correctly how can anybody who claims to be a christian also be homosexual?

Not only homosexualiaty was declared an abomination, but also of *equal standing* was wearing clothes of two different materials. We all do that! So, according to your question, how can *you* be a Christian??

If you want to hate... just admit it. :)

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Originally Posted by Choux

Not only homosexualiaty was declared an abomination, but also of *equal standing* was wearing clothes of two different materials. We all do that! So, according to your question, how can *you* be a Christian????

If you want to hate.....just admit it. :)

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Can you site chapter and verse please?

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"Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges
of your beard." (Leviticus 19:27)

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Have you shaven lately?

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"...do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. Do not wear
material woven of two kinds of material." (Leviticus 19:19)

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Better check the labels of all your clothes.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Have you shaven lately?


Better check the labels of all your clothes.

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NK if you are going to quote the Bible, please finish the passage.
Lev 19:19
You are to keep my statutes. You shall not breed together two kinds of you cattle; you shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed, not wear a garment upon you of two kinds of material mixed together.
If you read the whole passage it is saying "A" garment. It says nothing about mixing two different garments does it?

Garment = clothes, no? What is a garment to you?
You are sinning if you wear cotton/polyester mix.

And yet, what did John the Baptist wear?
I have all cotton on today, how about you?

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Originally Posted by 450donn

I have all cotton on today, how about you?

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I bet you don't. Do you think in John the baptist's time they have weaving mills that fed spools of rayon and wool?
What about your locks? Have they ever been shaven?

It's shocking to find out how many Christians don't know their religion when it is written clearly out for all to see.

Choux, that sounds like hate speech to me! And you claimed I was the hate monger?
Don't let your prejudices blind you.

It really amazes me how you and NK can go off on a tangent that has nothing to do with my original question. But instead you choose to try and justify one sin with something that has no baring on the subject at hand.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 450donn

So if I am reading this correctly how can anybody who claims to be a christian also be homosexual?

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The law is the lamp of God's Word that is offered as the guiding light to our path of life. It is to teach us right from wrong. It tells us of our errors, and shows all sins. And as we have seen so far in posting, we are all with sin.

To answer the question above would be to say no one has the right to claim they are christian who do sin. And that is not what Our Lord has offered us....

Matthew 7:1-2 Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

Psalms 96:10-13 Say among the heathen [that] the LORD reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people righteously. Let the heavens rejoice, and let the earth be glad; let the sea roar, and the fulness thereof. Let the field be joyful, and all that [is] therein: then shall all the trees of the wood rejoice Before the LORD: for he cometh, for he cometh to judge the earth: he shall judge the world with righteousness, and the people with his truth.

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Originally Posted by sndbay

To answer the question above would be to say no one has the right to claim they are christian who do sin.

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Correct. So if you have cut hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard you cannot claim to be a christian.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Correct. So if you have cut hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard you cannot claim to be a christian.

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Not true... Christians are follower of Christ Jesus

We are all sinners, and fall short in our flesh body. Yet belief in Christ Jesus as the begotten Son of God, and Our Father's Grace... We can have the door of salvation opened to us, when we repent of our sins. Eternal Life is a decision of the heart.

Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Matthew 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and [thy] mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

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Originally Posted by sndbay

Not true... Christians are follower of Christ Jesus

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But you just said earlier:

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Originally Posted by sndbay

To answer the question above would be to say no one has the right to claim they are christian who do sin.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

But you just said earlier:

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The original question was Quote: So if I am reading this correctly how can anybody who claims to be a christian also be homosexual?

My reply was that Quote: To answer the question above would be to say no one has the right to claim they are christian who do sin. And that is not what Our Lord has offered us....

Our Lord offers forgiveness for all sins as Christians that follow Him!

But it's the same answer for the person who has cut their hair or shaved their beard, they are also transgressing the word in the Bible. Also since a homosexual is a follower of Jesus Christ then he also is a christian. Why are you making a distinction between the two?

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

But it's the same answer for the person who has cut their hair or shaved their beard, they are also transgressing the word in the Bible.

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YES, I agree.. There is no degree in sin, we are all sinners. The scripture I reference along the way also confirms we are all sinners.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Also since a homosexual is a follower of Jesus Christ then he also is a christian. Why are you making a distinction between the two?

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That was my point there is no distinction between sin. And I added we should not judge, we are warned not to judge anyone.

However...that does not mean we are not suppose to try and follow the ways of Christ. In the course of life, experience are to teach us, and the desire of eternal life with God says we are to gain wisdom. The beginning of knowledge is the fear of God. God does not like sin

Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction

It makes one wonder why the churches are full of shaven people, even the priests!

Some of you are offering ridiculous arguments. Those laws about hair style, clothing materials, seeds, and cattle were given to ISRAEL ONLY and were intended to teach RACIAL purity.

The law against same gender sex was given in the context of what the inhabitants of the land of Caanan were guilty of, along with adulterey, fornication, incest, and beastialiaty.

The New Testament says nothing about those laws SPECIFIC to Israel, as Jesus fulfilled all of them perfectly.

The New Testament DOES say a lot about the SIN of same gender sex.

By the way, the ONLY persons who could not cut their hair or shave were nazarites and only for as long as they were under that particular vow. Otherwise, Israelites were only forbidden to copy the styles of the Egyptians.

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Originally Posted by galveston

Some of you are offering ridiculous arguments. Those laws about hair style, clothing materials, seeds, and cattle were given to ISRAEL ONLY and were intended to teach RACIAL purity.

The law against same gender sex was given in the context of what the inhabitants of the land of Caanan were guilty of, along with adulterey, fornication, incest, and beastialiaty.

The New Testament says nothing about those laws SPECIFIC to Israel, as Jesus fulfilled all of them perfectly.

The New Testament DOES say a lot about the SIN of same gender sex.

By the way, the ONLY persons who could not cut their hair or shave were nazarites and only for as long as they were under that particular vow. Otherwise, Israelites were only forbidden to copy the styles of the Egyptians.

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Lev. 17 is different from Lev. 19?

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Originally Posted by 450donn

And yet, what did John the Baptist wear?
I have all cotton on today, how about you?

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Cotton shoes?

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Originally Posted by galveston

The New Testament says nothing about those laws SPECIFIC to Israel, as Jesus fulfilled all of them perfectly.
.

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New Testament - Galatians

5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Jesus fulfilled all that was written. By coming as the Grace of Our Father, The begotten Son of God. "The Word made Flesh"

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

Love for Love

Gal 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only [use] not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Walk in the Spirit ... Christ is the Way

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Gal 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 450donn

Leviticus 18:22 You shall lot lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination (NAS) Do not practice homosexuality; it is a detestable practice. (NLT)
Leviticus 18:30 Thus you are to keep My charge that you do not practice any of the abominable customs which have been practiced before you, so that you do not defile yourselves with them; I am the Lord your God. (NAS)
So be careful to obey my laws, and do not practice any of these detestable activities. Do not defile yourselves by doing any of them, for I, the Lord am your God. (NLT)
So if I am reading this correctly how can anybody who claims to be a christian also be homosexual?

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There can be people who are homosexual and Christian. When a homosexual first comes to Christ, he may still struggle a bit at first, but if he is truly saved, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit will begin to change his desires to be more in line with what God would have him be. Thus, he still be a homosexual when first saved, but if truly saved, he will not stay that way. We see examples of those who were once homosexuals at the church in Corint, who were saved through being saved:

1 Cor 6:9-11
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
NKJV

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Garment = clothes, no? What is a garment to you?
You are sinning if you wear cotton/polyester mix.

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NeedKarma, Christians are not under the law:

1 Tim 1:9-11
9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which was committed to my trust.
NKJV

Gal 3:19-25
19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one. 21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
NKJV

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tj3

Christians are not under the law:

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Scripture says those who walk in the spirit are not under the law. The spirit of love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law .

A Christian is a following of Christ, who may be on the path toward righteousness in use of the tutor to bring them to Christ, that they might be justified by faith.

Would you not agree with this?

Therefore a christian can indeed be a homosexual.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Therefore a christian can indeed be a homosexual.

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Yes, for a period, but a homosexual who is truly saved will not stay a homosexual.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sndbay

Scripture says those who walk in the spirit are not under the law. The spirit of love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law .

A Christian is a following of Christ, who may be on the path toward righteousness in use of the tutor to bring them to Christ, that they might be justified by faith.

Would you not agree with this?

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If I understand your intent, no I would not fully agree. 1 Tim 1:9 says that the law is not for a righteous person, and Gal 5:18 says that if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Therefore those who are in Christ, who have His righteousness imputed to them are no longer under the tutor "the law". In part, the reason is because to be under law also means that we would be judged by the law, and by the covering of the righteousness of Christ that comes when we are saved.

I think that you are referring to the sanctification of the believer, and I certainly agree that we are growing after being saved to become more like Christ, and to become more the person that we ought to be, but right from the moment atht we are saved, we are righteousness through His righteousness. We will never be righteous by our own righteousness no matter how much we grow.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tj3

If I understand your intent, no I would not fully agree. 1 Tim 1:9 says that the law is not for a righteous person, and Gal 5:18 says that if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Therefore those who are in Christ, who have His righteousness imputed to them are no longer under the tutor "the law".

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My intent is that of (Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. KJV)

As I said, Scripture says those who walk in the spirit are not under the law. Gal 5:19 The spirit of love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law .

So is your answer still No, or do you see where we agree ?I have said the same word as I said before, and you can Quote me on that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tj3

I think that you are referring to the sanctification of the believer, and I certainly agree that we are growing after being saved to become more like Christ, and to become more the person that we ought to be,

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When we become sanctified in Christ, we have been washed in water of The Word that we drink, the Living Water (John 4:14). The same as Christ had santified the church shown in scripture Eph 5:26-27. So I believe we have had the law put into our hearts and mind by Christ. (Hebrews 10:16)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tj3

but right from the moment atht we are saved, we are righteousness through His righteousness. We will never be righteous by our own righteousness no matter how much we grow.

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I agree

Let's go back to what you said

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tj3

I certainly agree that we are growing after being saved to become more like Christ, and to become more the person that we ought to be,

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The word saved is what causes my thoughts to search, and want to reproof what is meant.

We are saved, I feel when we trust in Our Father's Truth, and we accept Christ Jesus as the begotten Son of God, and we fear the Lord by His understand of all that is written, in The Living Word, and being sancified in Christ Jesus.

So it brings to mind those that are weak, knowing that a weak following Christian would grow from the weakness in the flesh, yet the spirit is willing. Would you agree?

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Originally Posted by sndbay

My intent is that of (Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. KJV)

As I said, Scripture says those who walk in the spirit are not under the law. Gal 5:19 The spirit of love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law .

So is your answer still No, or do you see where we agree ?I have said the same word as I said before, and you can Quote me on that.

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This is the comment that I was saying that it appeared that I disagreed with:

"A Christian is a following of Christ, who may be on the path toward righteousness in use of the tutor to bring them to Christ, that they might be justified by faith."

It appeared to me that you were saying that we still needed the tutor (the law) to progress towards righteousness. If that was not your intent than we are probably close to agreement.

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Let's go back to what you said The word saved is what causes my thoughts to search, and want to reproof what is meant.

We are saved, I feel when we trust in Our Father's Truth, and we accept Christ Jesus as the begotten Son of God, and we fear the Lord by His understand of all that is written, in The Living Word, and being sancified in Christ Jesus.

So it brings to mind those that are weak, knowing that a weak following Christian would grow from the weakness in the flesh, yet the spirit is willing. Would you agree?

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I would not entirely agree with this, if I undersatnd your intent. I don't agree that we wopuld necessarily understand all that is written, but rather what is important is that we understand an received in whole the truth of the gospel itself.

Past that I agree that it is a growth process, and that is what I was referring to when I said that when one first receives Christ, we may yet be weak in some areas, but He will change us.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Lev. 17 is different from Lev. 19?

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Not sure what you are asking.

Lev. Ch 18 is the one dealing with sexual sins, and it SPECIFIALLY says that the nations Israel was to disposess were guilty of these sins.

Lev 18:24-25
24 Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:
25 And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants.
(KJV)

Those sundry laws given in ch 17 and 19 were given to Israel only. It was a part of the body of civil law. There is no evidence that these laws were binding on anyone else, unless of course, they chose to live in Israel.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Therefore a christian can indeed be a homosexual.

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No. A Christian can be a FORMER homosexual, just like he can be a former adulterer, thief, or murderer. Just as you cannot continue to be a bank robber, just so you cannot continue to PRACTICE homosexual acts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tj3

I would not entirely agree with this, if I undersatnd your intent. I don't agree that we wopuld necessarily understand all that is written, but rather what is important is that we understand an received in whole the truth of the gospel itself.
.

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My intent can be quoted:we fear the Lord by His understand of all that is written, in The Living Word,

We fear the Lord... and that fear rest upon His = The Lord's understand of all that is written. = His judgement.

I can agree with received the whole truth of the gospel itself, because it goes back to belief in The Word = Christ = Word made Flesh

Quote:

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Originally Posted by galveston

No. A Christian can be a FORMER homosexual, just like he can be a former adulterer, thief, or murderer. Just as you cannot continue to be a bank robber, just so you cannot continue to PRACTICE homosexual acts.

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The reason I have said we can not judge each other, but rather show love, is because it is written to love. Walk in the spirit of Christ.

Christ came to save who?

And I can bet you know plenty of Christians, who are following the teaching of Christ, and yet they themselve find it difficult to love everyone. Satan would love to teach us to hate..

Each individual needs to decide who they hear.. satan (or) the voice of Christ

In this discussion, I am not saying we yoke ourselves to those that do error, but if we are yoked to Christ, we show that as our example.

Christian are everywhere but not all christians are sanctified in Christ. We are not the Judge!

As a servant of God be the example..

~child of God

Quote:

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Originally Posted by galveston

No. A Christian can be a FORMER homosexual, just like he can be a former adulterer, thief, or murderer. Just as you cannot continue to be a bank robber, just so you cannot continue to PRACTICE homosexual acts.

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Let's try that again. A homosexual can be a Christian but not acting out his homosexuality.

Human sexuality is fluid. One is a homosexual or a heterosexual or a bisexual or transgender or indeterminate gender or is somewhere else along the Likert scake of sexuality.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sndbay

The reason I have said we can not judge each other, but rather show love, is because it is written to love. Walk in the spirit of Christ.

Christ came to save who?

And I can bet you know plenty of Christians, who are following the teaching of Christ, and yet they themselve find it difficult to love everyone. Satan would love to teach us to hate..

Each individual needs to decide who they hear.. satan (or) the voice of Christ

In this discussion, I am not saying we yoke ourselves to those that do error, but if we are yoked to Christ, we show that as our example.

Christian are everywhere but not all christians are sanctified in Christ. We are not the Judge!

As a servant of God be the example..

~child of God

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Surely you do not mean that one can be saved one week and be found committing overt sin (of any kind) next week and still claim to be saved?
I don't believe it.

John 8:34-36
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
(KJV)
Free from what if not sin?

Rom 6:17-18
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
(KJV)
A servant of righteousness does not commit overt sin.

I could give you a lot more verses, but that would become tiresome for some reading this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by galveston

Surely you do not mean that one can be saved one week and be found committing overt sin (of any kind) next week and still claim to be saved?
.

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I did not say a homosexual was saved. I did not say all that call themselves Christians are saved. And I would not judge the heart of anyone...

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Let's try that again. A homosexual can be a Christian but not acting out his homosexuality.

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No, scripture is clear that an orientation towards sin is also sin.

Scripture says:

1 Cor 6:9-11
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
NKJV

To suggest that would be like saying that an adulterer can be a Christian if he does not act out on it, but only lusts.

Jesus Said:

Matt 5:28
28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
NKJV

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Originally Posted by Tj3

No, scripture is clear that an orientation towards sin is also sin.

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No, it isn't. Your understanding of the words in that passage is incorrect.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

No, it isn't. Your understanding of the words in that passage is incorrect.

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Really? Why don't you show us your interpretation of the words in the context. Personally, I thought Jesus explained it quite clearly.