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I have a pretty clear understanding of the Trinity according to my churches teaching. Please explain your churches understanding of the trinity and how they work together?
I do not want arguments on who is right or wrong, just an explanation that a laymen like me can understand.
Thanks.
** answer refers to a answer that has been deleted, it contained insulting remarks, and incorrect data***
I think you might have the history a little mixed-up. The Nicene Council of 325 decided the dogma of the Trinity; the unity of the Godhead in three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The conflict was with the Arians and the Gnostics. The Catholics took the orthodox (approved) position which is known today as the Nicene Creed. It's my understanding that most of the non-Catholic faiths hold a similar creed. I don't believe it's very controversial except with a few. CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: The Blessed Trinity
JoeT
Exactly right Joe!Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeT777
God the Father,in the eternity of the past,at some point,wanted to make a being in His image.That could not happen because He has no image, no shape of any kind.He is limittless!So He gives birth to His begotten Son , The Word!It is written John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
To the same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
God's begotten Son, The Word was in the beginning!Whose beginning?The beginning of everything that has to do with us humans!God's begotten Son was with God and the Son of God is also God because nobody gives birth to something different than He is.Humans give birth to humans, dogs give birth to dogs ,God gives birth to God.God's begotten Son,The Word is God!
All things were made by The Word!We humans were made by The Word, in The Word's image,the image of His unseen Father, God!
It is written Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Also... John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
So The Word becomes flesh,He becomes the person we all know as Jesus Christ!
The following is from theholyspirit.com website
The Holy Spirit is a part of the Holy Trinity with the Father and Son. In the Old Testament the Hebrew word (ruwach, pronounced roo'-akh) was used when talking about the Spirit. This word literally means WIND, even the wind associated with a BREATHE! In the New Testament the Greek word (pneuma, pronounced pnyoo'-mah) was used which means the BREATHE or a BREEZE! We can literally think of the Holy Spirit as the "Breathe of God!"
1) The Holy Spirit is God, but He is a Person, not a force
2) We cannot focus on the Holy Spirit too much. Why? What is the Holy Spirit's mission? To reveal Jesus. What is Jesus mission…to reveal the Father. What about the Father…to send Jesus and the Holy Spirit so we can come to Him. Perfect Harmony. They never had a crisis management meeting in Heaven. They never tried to sit down and work things out. They never had a power struggle amongst themselves.
3) The Holy Spirit gives gifts for use in ministry and empowers effective ministry
4) The Holy Spirit is a distinct Person within the Godhead, not a force, a thing, or an "it"
Trinity, is a term used to express the belief that in the one God there are three Divine Persons--the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit (or Holy Ghost). The idea is based on various passages in the New Testament. Belief in Father, Son, and Holy Spirit was defined by early general councils of the Christian church. The Council of Nicaea in 325 and the Council of Constantinople in 381 declared that the Son is of the same essence as the Father, and that the three Persons are one God. The East and West branches of the church later disagreed as to how the Holy Spirit proceeds from the other Divine Persons. The Eastern Church held that the Son comes from the Father, and that the Spirit comes from the Father through the Son. The Western Church held that the Spirit comes from Father and Son together. A special activity has been ascribed to each of the Persons. The Father creates, the Son became human, and the Spirit makes holy.
Ask this question to pastor murray he has a TV show and he is great an explaining everything Biblical.
I love this man he really tells it like it is and he will take your questions,
[http://www.shepherdschapel.com/index.cfm
This man is awesome.
Dear Artlady,
Thank you so much.
Rolcam
The actual relationship is not one that can easily be explained. Even at best it is one where you have to believe on and with faith.
The word "Trinity" is a Theological Construct :a literary device used esoterically by groups to avoid repeating a common concept.
It is not a biblical word and therefore will always be argumnentative in theological discussions. We do know that Jesus was called God in both the OT and NT and Jesus accepted that designation.
There is NO easy way to understand the "Trinity". But then, there is no way to understand God.
The best that you can do is very carefully study the Gospel of John; especially chapter 8.
John records what Jesus speaks of His full authority of God, His full glory of, His full power of God, His full oneness with God before and after His birth in human form, etc. And that the Father would send the Holy Spirit to be with us when Jesus would ascend.
Ps 131:1-2
Y heart is not proud, O Lord,
My eyes are not haughty;
I do not concern myself with great matters
Or things too wonderful for me.
2 But I have stilled and quieted my soul;
Like a weaned child with its mother,
Like a weaned child is my soul within me.
NIV
I forgot to state that in my church this
Is classed very much a MYSTERY!
There are many mysteries, this would probably be the hardest to fathom out.
Rolcam
I cannot fully describe the trinity in a way that it can be fully understood for, as has been pointed out, it is a mystery.
But for me this is a good example which gives me some understanding of how three which work together can be one.
We all are one being made up of three. They are body, mind and spirit.
When one ponders that we can fathom how they work together to make a human being what he/she is.
Each has a special function which operates in harmony with the others so that the being can do what is needed or wanted.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
Fred,
Peace and kindness to you ,always.
Roland.
Much Thanks Roland,
I'm glad to see you here.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
Fred,Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
You lost me when you said that this is a mystery?
How can it be a mystery?
Reading the word of God it is fairly clearly pointed out how the trinity works. How the Holy Spirit is in our lives to help and guide us. Is it your premise that the Holy Spirit is not here with us and working overtime sometimes to guide and teach us? Please explain further.
Definition of Mystery:-
A religious conception or doctrine that human reason cannot understand.
Ex. Father Deacy preached on the mystery of the Trinity (New York Times).
450donn,
The trinity is so complex that it can not be FULLY understood that is why it is called a mystery.
Each person in the being of the trinity God has separate works to perform and does so with the cooperation of the others.
Even so each one is fully God and still works in conjunction with the full cooperation of the others.
How the three manage that is the mystery.
A person can pray to each one of them individually for some purpose such as praying to the Holy Spirit for inspiration and understanding Or to The Son for aid in helping spread the good news of the Gospel or to the Father for help on a creative project of some sort OR praying just to God and that prayer is then to all three.
I hope that helps.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
ROLCAM,
Yup, that's correct.
We humans can not even expect to fully understand God who is infinite, eternal, and perfect in all attributes.
We can not even fully understand what infinity, eternity, and true perfection is.
Please and kindness,
Fred
Is not the holy Spirit the same one sent by Jesus after his assention called the helper? Is this not the same holy spirit that is with each of us to help and guide us on our everyday walk? Is this not the same holy Spirit that convicts us when we make mistakes?
There is passage after passage describing the holy Spirit and his works within us here on earth. How is this such a mystery?
450donn,
Please reread what I said.
It is not just the Holy Spirit.
The thread's topic is FULLY understanding ALL about the TRINITY.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
P
That's fine, but it doesn't speak to the question. Does the Holy Spirit proceed from the Father and the Son, or just from the Son? Are the three persons of the Trinity a single substance, or aren't they? If they are, by virtue of what are they distinct persons? If they aren't, then how can they be one God? When the Son suffered on the cross, did the Father suffer too? Did the Son proceed from the Father before the Spirit did, or at the same time? If the Son proceeded before the Spirit, does this mean that the Son and the Spirit are not co-eternal?Quote:
Originally Posted by 450donn
Yeah, I'd say the Trinity is a mystery. These aren't easy questions to answer.
Akoue,
Thanks for those questions.
They ARE something to think about.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
Oh yes... now that's MYSTERY!Quote:
Originally Posted by Akoue
adam7gur,
I believe that the three divine persons in one of the Trinity are equally infinite and eternal.
I also, therefore, believe that they proceed from each other and are therefore each one equally God Almighty.
How they manage to to that is another mystery to me.
In their way they are a very close nit family of three in one.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
Fred,my brother!
You wrote a keyword and I will star from there.
The keyword is ''family''!
Every family has a father and in God's family we all know who the Father is!
Now, what about the mother?In god's family , who is the mother?Let us all remember that the woman was made of the man,in other words the mother of all ,EVE,came out of Adam's flesh.We could say that the father(Adam),gave birth to the mother(Eve)and through Eve(her name means Genesis 3:20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living)life was given to us.
Now back to who is the mother in God's family!
Jesus said.. John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life.
We all know that Jesus is the incarnated Word of God,and it is written that.. John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Exactly like Eve!! Don't let the sex trouble you with this , because BOTH man and woman are made IN HIS IMAGE!!
So The Word is the mother in God's family, because through The Word, life came!
And what about the Holy Spirit.What is His job?
The Hebrew word for Spirit is Rouach and means Breathe.
It is written Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath(Rouach) of life; and man became a living soul.
It is also written Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit (Rouach)of God moved upon the face of the waters.
It is also written John 20:22 And when he had said this, he [B]breathed [/B](Rouach)on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the [B]Holy Ghost[/B](Rouach)!
What do I make of this? I see the Rouach,The Breathe of God,The Holy Spirit,supplying LIFE to Creation,to man and woman, and after their fall and us losing LIFE because of sin,LIFE is given to us again .And LIFE is the ability of being after the likeness of God!That is REAL LIFE!
Brother adam,
I believe that the Holy Spirit is the female of the three.
The Word is the one who became The Son, a male.
Also in the Old Testament the Hebrew word for spirit is a female word.
The Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary like a nursemaid; a female aiding a female.
God the Father fathered The Son with the aid of The Holy Spirit so you see the family of God were all three involved in begetting The Word into the Godman, Jesus, God the Son.
It is almost 1 AM here and past my bed time so, God willing, I'll be back later.
Peace and kindness,
Fred.
I think all three persons are both male and female because we men and women are both made in their image.The Word is The Son , before being in flesh because it is written before that about Him.. Psalm 2:7 the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
All this assures us that God is a mystery!!
I wish you all the best my brother!
And in Hebrew the words Son of have the meaning of In the image of so I think the whole thing has nothing to do with the sex.
I think all three persons are both male and female because we men and women are both made in their image.The Word is The Son , before being in flesh because it is written before that about Him.. Psalm 2:7 the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. And in Hebrew the words Son of have the meaning of In the image of so I think the whole thing has nothing to do with the sex.Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
All this assures us that God is a mystery!!
I wish you all the best my brother!
Adam,
Thanks for that.
I'll think on it.
Fred
I was just wondering who deleted my answer and why? You only want to hear what you want to hear or are you afraid to open up to others opinions? Isn't Jesus about respect and love.. then you've got a long way to go yet.
Peace to men, women and childeren!
Black111, the post seemed silly and not related to anything,
As did many of your posts, several were deleted as spam. Figured you were merely posting silly sayings for no real reason.
black111madonna
If you truly want to know you need to read the bible to understand. It is the inspired word of God, believe it or not that is your prerogative. However we as Christians do believe that. For us the bible is an owners manual if you will. It tells us how to live and behave. If you choose to not believe that, so be it. But if that is the case, why come over here and interject your questions and comments?
450donn,
That IS a good question.
I hope you (we all) get black111madonna's answer to it.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
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