“Christ established the kingdom of God on earth, manifested His Father and Himself by deeds and words, and completed His work by His death, resurrection and glorious Ascension and by the sending of the Holy Spirit.” Dei Verbum V 17

1. What and where is the Kingdom of God?
2. Do we see it in the Old Testament? Does it differ between the Old Testament and the New Testament?
3. How and when do we enter the Kingdom of God?
4. Do you understand the “Kingdom of God” to be the same as “Kingdom of Heaven?”
5. Or do you hold the Kingdom of Heaven and the Kingdom of God to be two different Kingdoms?

Feel free to answerer one or more of the above.


JoeT

Question edited to removed denominatinal reference and to removed request for restriction on answers. FC

1. THE KINGDOM OF god is wherever God reigns over the lives of His subjects.
The Kingdom of God is not visible because God is not visible. It is a spiritual
Kingdom, not a visible one. As for where the kingdom of God is look up
Luke 17:20, 21. "Once, having been asked by the pharisees when the kingdom of God will come, Jesus replied The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, nor will people say Here it is or here it is because the kingdom of God is
within YOU."

Maggie 3

John3: 3 "Unless one is born again He cannot see the Kingdom
od God" Jesus said John3:5 "Unless One is born of water and the spirt, , he cannot enter the Kingdom of God." It comes about when one receives Jesus' sacrificial death to cleanse from sin and make Jesus the Lord of his spirit, and receive the indwelling Holy Spirit. With the new birth, the spirit of man is recreated and enjoined with Gods spirit
enableling us to have the spiritual vision necessary to see and enter the kingdom of God.

Maggie3


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Originally Posted by Maggie 3

1. THE KINGDOM OF god is wherever God reigns over the lives of His subjects.
The Kingdom of God is not visible because God is not visible. It is a spiritual kingdom, not a visible one. As for where the kingdom of God is look up
Luke 17:20, 21. Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God will come, Jesus replied the kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, nor will people say Here it is or here it is because the kingdom of God is within YOU.

Maggie 3

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Maggie:

Thanks for your response. As I understand you are proposing that the Kingdom is only a spiritual place, not associated with an earthly domain. If I've understood correctly, then how do you render what God said to Moses on Mt. Sinai, “If therefore you will hear my voice, and keep my covenant, you shall be my peculiar possession above all people: for all the earth is mine. And you shall be to me a priestly kingdom, and a holy nation.” (Ex.19: 5, 6)? What happens to this Kingdom? Matthew tells us that the Kingdom will be taken from the Jews and given to others, yielding first fruits. (Cf. Matt 21:33-46).

Also, the contention is that the Kingdom of God is within us then the following verses are telling us to seek justice within?
Luke 12:31 But seek ye first the kingdom of God and his justice: and all these things shall be added unto you. 32 Fear not, little flock, for it hath pleased your...
Matt 6: 33 Seek ye therefore first the kingdom of God, and his justice, and all these things shall be added unto you. 34 Be not therefore solicitous for to morrow;...
Are there inconsistencies, can you resolve them? Or, are these unrelated verses?

JoeT

Joe,
I am thinking that this refers to after Armageddon and after God establishes his kingdom here on earth.
As it stands today, God has done everything he can on the earth until the time of judgment. Then the New Heaven and Earth will be established. At that time he will be among his people just like in the days of Adam and Eve.

Hello, JoeT - these are my thoughts.

1) What and where is the Kingdom of God? It is my belief that the Kingdom of God is the kingdom that God is in the process of building now through the redemption of his elect— "hagioi", also know as the called out ones or the holy (sanctified) ones. Ultimately, the kingdom itself is God dwelling amongst his people, although there will be an actual place for this dwelling, not an ethereal, abstract existence espoused by some (previous poster). To answer the second part of the question—where is the Kingdom of God?—I'd say that it is not present now but we have the promise of God that he will one day build it and deliver it to his people. The earth now is subject to futility (Romans 8) and will not continue on in its present form, so that is why I personally see the kingdom as one coming, not already here. I'm thinking about what Peter says when he notes that the earth and all that is in it will be destroyed:

"But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.

Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn! But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells."

In addition, John's vision in Revelation 21 says the following:

"Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”

John's perspective is similar to Peter's in that it is his understanding that the earth and the heavens as we know it will be destroyed and God will make a new dwelling place for him and his people—The New Jerusalem, which is to be given as a gift to his people, both Jew and Gentile alike.

To summarize question 1, the Kingdom of God is the place where God will dwell amongst his people and reign over them in glory. The coming Day of the Lord will bring God's justice to the ungodly and his mercy and salvation to the righteous, and he will bestow as a gift the kingdom to those who have waited patiently for it, with Christ as King.

In a sense, I think I have indirectly answered questions 2 & 3. The Old Testament foreshadowed the coming kingdom and you see it in the period of the Kings of Israel. However, the promise God made to David that through his seed would come one who would reign in righteousness, further proved that the Kingdom of God had not yet arrived. David understood that the Messiah would be this ruler and in Christ's day it was the anticipation of the people that Messiah would come. If the Kingdom of God were already present, why would the people be looking for their King? Not only that, but there was a complete destruction of the Kingdom of Israel and Israel had ceased to even be a nation until 1947.

Questions 4-5: I do not think there is any distinction between the Kingdom of Heaven and the Kingdom of God. Jesus used these terms interchangeably but he was referring to one and the same thing. The inevitable question is why is there a distinction then? Perhaps I can answer that at another time. But this is my answer to these questions thus far.

I enjoyed the questions and I am interested in hearing your thoughts on these things. I still owe you a response from another post concerning Judas.

Joe, If you recall Jesus can be quoted as saying "My Kingdom is Not of This World" (John 18:36)

And.. Jesus can also be quoted in saying
"Everyone of truth hereth My Voice" (John 18:37)

In scripture those that follow Christ and are baptized into the righteousness of new life with the Spirit are refer as children of God.

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


And Peter never limited The Word of Christ to a certain people but to all nations. This is written in Acts 10:34-35 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Acts 10:36 The word which [God] sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all ) :)

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Originally Posted by JoeT777

Also, the contention is that the Kingdom of God is within us then the following verses are telling us to seek justice within?
Luke 12:31 But seek ye first the kingdom of God and his justice: and all these things shall be added unto you. 32 Fear not, little flock, for it hath pleased your...
Matt 6: 33 Seek ye therefore first the kingdom of God, and his justice, and all these things shall be added unto you. 34 Be not therefore solicitous for to morrow;...

JoeT

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We are to seek the Kingdom of God just as we are to seek Christ. The mind and soul of free will to seek and find. We are blessed in doing so, and have put on the armor needed in defense of evil here and now on earth. For the journey in life everafter is The Kingdom of God. (Jer 29:13 Matthew 7:7 Luke 11:9 )

First off we need to accept that the "Kingdom of God" in the NT is a mystery:

Mk 4:11-12
11 He told them, "The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables 12 so that,
"'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving,
And ever hearing but never understanding;
Otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'
NIV

The Greek word is : mysterion something being revealed.

Ro 16:25 - 1 Co 1:1

25 Now to him who is able to strengthen you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which was kept secret for long ages 26 but is now disclosed and through the prophetic writings is made known to all nations, according to the command of the eternal God, to bring about the obedience of faith - 27 to the only wise God be glory for evermore through Jesus Christ! Amen.
RSV

Job 11:7-9
7 "Can you fathom the mysteries of God?
Can you probe the limits of the Almighty?
8 They are higher than the heavens — what can you do?
They are deeper than the depths of the grave-what can you know?
9 Their measure is longer than the earth
And wider than the sea.
NIV

HOWEVER, there was always partial revelation to God's people. In the OT they had part of the mystery of the kingdom of God but only by shadows and temporal things, i.e. the promised land, the temple, the sacrifices...


Dt 29:29
29 The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law.
NIV

Jesus taught much more and the apostles continue to proclaim the kingdom by God's word.

It is still a mystery and can't be defined beyond the word itself... beyond our getting a concordance and looking at each section which speaks of the kingdom.

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Originally Posted by 450donn

Joe,
I am thinking that this refers to after Armageddon and after God establishes his kingdom here on earth.

As it stands today, God has done everything he can on the earth until the time of judgment. Then the New Heaven and Earth will be established. At that time he will be among his people just like in the days of Adam and Eve.

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If I understand you correctly, we have a prophecy telling of the Son of David, the Messianic King, without an earthly Kingdom? Christ conquers death, and abandon’s his Kingdom? Surely you expect an earthly kingdom somewhere, without it Christ isn’t the Messiah.

JoeT

Thanks for writing. In my mind you've seem to have gotten it half right.

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Originally Posted by jakester

Hello, JoeT - these are my thoughts. What and where is the Kingdom of God? It is my belief that the Kingdom of God is the kingdom that God is in the process of building now through the redemption of his elect— "hagioi", also know as the called out ones or the holy (sanctified) ones. Ultimately, the kingdom itself is God dwelling amongst his people, although there will be an actual place for this dwelling, not an ethereal, abstract existence espoused by some (previous poster). To answer the second part of the question—where is the Kingdom of God?—I'd say that it is not present now but we have the promise of God that he will one day build it and deliver it to his people.

The earth now is subject to futility (Romans 8) and will not continue on in its present form, so that is why I personally see the kingdom as one coming, not already here. I'm thinking about what Peter says when he notes that the earth and all that is in it will be destroyed:

"But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.

Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn! But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells."

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I can agree that the Kingdom of God is in the process of building. Romans 8 speaks to there not being condemnation to those justified in Christ, nor for those who don't walk according to the flesh, but walk in the spirit. God so loved his creation, finding it good, ordained that we conform to the image of His Son, “Firstborn amongst many brethren”
Romans 8 speaks to their not being condemnation to those justified in Christ, nor for those who don't walk according to the flesh, but walk in the spirit. God so loved his creation, finding it good, ordained that we conform to the image of His Son, “Firstborn amongst many brethren”

And Paul reinforces this thought, “Until we all meet into the unity of faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the age of the fulness of Christ: 14 That henceforth we be no more children tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the wickedness of men, by cunning craftiness by which they lie in wait to deceive. 15 But doing the truth in charity, we may in all things grow up in him who is the head, even Christ:” (Eph 4:13-15)

Would you disagree that this could be done in God's Kingdom here on earth?

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Originally Posted by jakester

In addition, John's vision in Revelation 21 says the following:

"Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”

John's perspective is similar to Peter's in that it is his understanding that the earth and the heavens as we know it will be destroyed and God will make a new dwelling place for him and his people—The New Jerusalem, which is to be given as a gift to his people, both Jew and Gentile alike.

To summarize question 1, the Kingdom of God is the place where God will dwell amongst his people and reign over them in glory. The coming Day of the Lord will bring God's justice to the ungodly and his mercy and salvation to the righteous, and he will bestow as a gift the kingdom to those who have waited patiently for it, with Christ as King.

Yes you've alluded to half the Kingdom, now where's the rest of it?
That there is a spiritual Kingdom of Heaven, I don't deny; but what of the King of Kings, the son of David, the Messiah? Christ can't be without him, and he can't be a king without a kingdom.

In a sense, I think I have indirectly answered questions 2 & 3. The Old Testament foreshadowed the coming kingdom and you see it in the period of the Kings of Israel. However, the promise God made to David that through his seed would come one who would reign in righteousness, further proved that the Kingdom of God had not yet arrived. David understood that the Messiah would be this ruler and in Christ's day it was the anticipation of the people that Messiah would come. If the Kingdom of God were already present, why would the people be looking for their King? Not only that, but there was a complete destruction of the Kingdom of Israel and Israel had ceased to even be a nation until 1947.

Questions 4-5: I do not think there is any distinction between the Kingdom of Heaven and the Kingdom of God. Jesus used these terms interchangeably but he was referring to one and the same thing. The inevitable question is why is there a distinction then? Perhaps I can answer that at another time. But this is my answer to these questions thus far.

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Yes you've alluded to half the Kingdom, now where's the rest of it? Where is the Messianic King?

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Originally Posted by jakester

I enjoyed the questions and I am interested in hearing your thoughts on these things.

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Thank you, I enjoy a good clean debate. You, as well as others, have always been willing to oblige.

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Originally Posted by jakester

I still owe you a response from another post concerning Judas.

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I've forgotten, be sure and write some to jog my memory.

JoeT

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Originally Posted by sndbay

Joe, If you recall Jesus can be quoted as saying "My Kingdom is Not of This World" (John 18:36)
And.. Jesus can also be quoted in saying
"Everyone of truth hereth My Voice" (John 18:37)

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We still haven’t discussed the Old Testament “Kingdom of God” to any length and, with your permission, I’d like to hold this discussion until then.

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Originally Posted by sndbay

In scripture those that follow Christ and are baptized into the righteousness of new life with the Spirit are refer as children of God.

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

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I’m not sure what your point is here. But, I understand the schoolmaster or tutor in Galatians to be a reference to the Law of Moses. It brings us to Christ as one who instills discipline in a youthful student. But, Christ closed the lessons of Mosses by fulfilling the Old Testament prophases for the Messianic King. The Old Testament Kingdom had to pass to the Gentiles so that the student once graduating through his baptism isn’t restrained by the tutor. “If a candle which gave light by night, kept us, when it became day, from the sun, it would not only not benefit, it would injure us; and so does the Law, if it stands between us and greater benefits. Those then are the greatest traducers of the Law, who still keep it, just as the tutor makes a youth ridiculous, by retaining him with himself, when time calls for his departure.” St. Chrysostom, Homily 3 on Galatians CHURCH FATHERS: Homily 3 on Galatians (Chrysostom)

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Originally Posted by sndbay

And Peter never limited The Word of Christ to a certain people but to all nations.

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You wound me; I’ve gone out of my way to say something quite different. On another thread, I stated quite rightly that through “Christ’s Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help towards salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained.” You may want to see exclusion in this, but it states something quite the opposite because, The Church also holds, “the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them [other churches and communities in Christ] as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Catholic Church.” (Cf. Vatican II, Decree on Ecumenism, UNITATIS REDINTEGRATIO, 21 November 1964) This is a far cry different from the rhetoric addressed at the Catholic Church, holding that Catholicism is paganism, demonism, etc…and thus its adherents doomed and damned.

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Originally Posted by sndbay

This is written in Acts 10:34-35 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Acts 10:36 The word which [God] sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all ) :)

We are to seek the Kingdom of God just as we are to seek Christ. The mind and soul of free will to seek and find. We are blessed in doing so, and have put on the armor needed in defense of evil here and now on earth. For the journey in life everafter is The Kingdom of God. (Jer 29:13 Matthew 7:7 Luke 11:9 )

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Let me end this by saying we have yet to discuss God’s promise to Moses; “If therefore you will hear my voice, and keep my covenant, you shall be my peculiar possession above all people: for all the earth is mine. And you shall be to me a priestly kingdom, and a holy nation.” (Ex.19: 5, 6) Where or who is this Kingdom today?

Thank you for writing, I have enjoyed our conversations lately

JoeT

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Originally Posted by revdrgade

First off we need to accept that the "Kingdom of God" in the NT is a mystery:

Mk 4:11-12
11 He told them, "The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables 12 so that,
"'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving,
and ever hearing but never understanding;
otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'
NIV
The Greek word is : mysterion something being revealed.

Ro 16:25 - 1 Co 1:1

25 Now to him who is able to strengthen you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which was kept secret for long ages 26 but is now disclosed and through the prophetic writings is made known to all nations, according to the command of the eternal God, to bring about the obedience of faith - 27 to the only wise God be glory for evermore through Jesus Christ! Amen.
RSV

Job 11:7-9
7 "Can you fathom the mysteries of God?
Can you probe the limits of the Almighty?
8 They are higher than the heavens — what can you do?
They are deeper than the depths of the grave-what can you know?
9 Their measure is longer than the earth
and wider than the sea.
NIV

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While it is a mystery in terms of fully understanding in human terms, but that mystery was taught in the form of parables, “And when he was alone, the twelve that were with him asked him the parable. 11 And he said to them: To you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God:” (Mark 4:10, 11). Consequently, there is some understanding of what the Kingdom of God is and we know the Apostles went out and taught this mystery.

We know Christ taught about the Kingdom of God. And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom: and healing all manner of sickness and every infirmity, among the people. (Matt 4:23) Do you suppose that nobody asked, well just what the Kingdom of God is? In fact couldn't we say that a component of his ministry was to teach of the Kingdom of God?

And the Apostles where sent out to teach about the Kingdom of God. How do you teach something about which you know nothing? “And going, preach, saying: The kingdom of heaven is at hand.” (Matt 10:7)

But in this verse God also stated a much overlooked fact, “for all the earth is mine.” Can we not say that all the earth belongs to God and as such is in the Kingdom?

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Originally Posted by revdrgade

HOWEVER, there was always partial revelation to God's people. In the OT they had part of the mystery of the kingdom of God but only by shadows and temporal things, i.e. the promised land, the temple, the sacrifices...

Dt 29:29
29 The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law.
NIV

Jesus taught much more and the apostles continue to proclaim the kingdom by God's word.

It is still a mystery and can't be defined beyond the word itself....beyond our getting a concordance and looking at each section which speaks of the kingdom.

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And heal the sick that are therein and say to them: The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you. (Luke 10:9)
It's my believe that what was being taught was about the priestly Kingdom God promised to Moses; “you shall be to me a priestly kingdom”

Let's extend this a bit further, wouldn't we say that all of the creation is God's Kingdom?

JoeT

Yes all creation is God's kingdom but also realize what Jesus said during his temptation
And what the Bible says about the principalities and powers of the air and the rulers of this world.

I agree with Jakester on everything he has said.

The kingdom is within the true believers and it is also something we look forward to.
Though now I look through the glass dimly one day I see face to face and this world grows strangely dim.

Joe:
Perhaps the answer that can offer conclusion to part of these questions is found in the frame work of fellowship known as Christianity. Eph 2: 19-22 offers us the idea that through the Holy Spirit, we together can build upon what will be for the habitation of God.

Eph 2:19-22 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone]; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

We still have to understand also that man of the Old Testment wanted what they could see, and it was their down fall. God permitted man to form leaders by land ownership which then became ruled by Kings. The New Testment brought change, yet the rulers were still the Kings of this earth. Revelation tells us that Christ will come as the prince ...1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him [be] glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Christ is coming to claim the throne of David.. King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

1 Cr 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1 Cr 15:24-27 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under [him, it is] manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1 Cr 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

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Do you suppose that nobody asked, well just what the Kingdom of God is? In fact couldn’t we say that a component of his ministry was to teach of the Kingdom of God?

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You're exactly right, JoeT. The Kingdom figures prominently in the Dead Sea Scrolls, and was likely a question posed by the followers of John the Baptist. You're also quite right to say that

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the Apostles went out and taught this mystery

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Originally Posted by sndbay

Joe:
Perhaps the answer that can offer conclusion to part of these questions is found in the frame work of fellowship known as Christianity. Eph 2: 19-22 offers us the idea that through the Holy Spirit, we together can build upon what will be for the habitation of God.

Eph 2:19-22 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone]; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

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It’s funny that you should use Paul’s letter to the Ephesians, I was looking at it to show that Christ intended to leave his Kingdom here on earth in the capable hands of Peter and the rest of the Apostles. The reason is clear, it’s in these verses of Ephesians where we see the depth of what John saw in Revelations chapter 1, “from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the first begotten of the dead and the prince of the kings of the earth, who hath loved us and washed us from our sins in his own blood, And hath made us a kingdom, and priests to God and his Father. “ (Rev 1:5,6)

Now therefore you are no more strangers and foreigners: but you are fellow citizens with the saints and the domestics of God: Built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone:

These verses show the supporting elements of the Kingdom on earth, the apostles, the prophets, and Jesus Christ as the Corner stone. Even buildings today, we find the name of the owner, founder on the corner stone along with the date of completion. Some would say that Christ is the foundation on which our faith is based: and he is. But, he’s the foundation in the sense of its founder, not the foundation on which the structure is bound. The Roman Church holds that Christ is the founder on which Peter the stone foundation was placed. Through God’s grace, we are able to participate in the construction and occupation of the Kingdom.

In whom all the building, being framed together, groweth up into an holy temple in the Lord. In whom you also are built together into an habitation of God in the Spirit.

This foundation is built on both Gentile and Jew; as well as the Apostles, the Prophets and its’ founder Christ. A union “framed together”, because “being many, are one bread, one body: all that partake of one bread." (Cf. 1 Cor 10:17). A universal Kingdom of God of one root, bound together in spirit of the cornerstons purpose.

And so we say “And hath made us a kingdom, and priests to God and his Father” inherited by default from the Jews, It was from the Sanhedrin that the power transferred given to a nation yielding the first fruit, Christ (Cf Matt 21:43). This Kingdom is fulfillment of God’s promise to Moses, to build a priestly Kingdom, and a holy nation. (Ex. 19:6)



JoeT

Joe,
I believe that the Kingdom of God on earth is different from the Kingdom in Heaven.
The Kingdom on earth is to be a refection of the one in heaven,
“Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven"
I believe that the earthly kingdom is His Holy Church and it is located wherever followers gather in worship in the many Church buildings build because of the love of God all over the world and thus it is also in the hearts and souls of those worshipers.
I believe that we enter the Kingdom of God on earth and destined for heaven when we are baptized and confirmed in that Holy Church as members thereof.
The priestly Kingdom God told Moses would be his people I believe was later taken away and much later SOMEWHAT restored with the birth, baptism , and confirmation of the Highest of high priests, Jesus Christ, who is now king of heaven's AND earth's kingdom.
The earthly kingdom with him as supreme head has a prime minister (vicar) and earthly princes of that Church called Bishops.
I believe that the Holy Spirit was given as guide to the first princes and He still does so 2000 years later.
I believe that the members of that Kingdom are bothers and sisters of Christ the King and destined for heaven.
I hope and pray that none fall away and all make it to the Heavenly Kingdom where Jesus said "I go to prepare a place for you."
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Akoue

You're exactly right, JoeT. The Kingdom figures prominently in the Dead Sea Scrolls, and was likely a question posed by the followers of John the Baptist. You're also quite right to say that

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I didn't have any special knowledge when I suggested that those listening to Christ would ask, “What is this Kingdom”. Instead I relied on plain ol' common sense. In Christ's day, just like it is among some circles today; teaching of such a Kingdom would have been unique – a kingdom partially spiritual and partially temporal. Occupied by three separate groups, those in the Church Militant, the Church Suffering, and the Church Triumphant, bound together in Christ.

What is good to know is that history proves out our humanity. But, here it comes, I'd really be interested in some references. I remember about ten years ago they put some of the Dead Sea Scrolls on line. Of course, I couldn't make heads or tails of them – it was all Greek to me!

JoeT

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arcura

Joe,
I believe that the Kingdom of God on earth is different from the Kingdom in Heaven.
The Kingdom on earth is to be a refection of the one in heaven,
“Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven"
I believe that the earthly kingdom is His Holy Church and it is located wherever followers gather in worship in the many Church buildings build because of the love of God all over the world and thus it is also in the hearts and souls of those worshipers.
I believe that we enter the Kingdom of God on earth and destined for heaven when we are baptized and confirmed in that Holy Church as members thereof.
The priestly Kingdom God told Moses would be his people I believe was later taken away and much later SOMEWHAT restored with the birth, baptism , and confirmation of the Highest of high priests, Jesus Christ, who is now king of heaven's AND earth's kingdom.
The earthly kingdom with him as supreme head has a prime minister (vicar) and earthly princes of that Church called Bishops.
I believe that the Holy Spirit was given as guide to the first princes and He still does so 2000 years later.
I believe that the members of that Kingdom are bothers and sisters of Christ the King and destined for heaven.
I hope and pray that none fall away and all make it to the Heavenly Kingdom where Jesus said "I go to prepare a place for you."
Peace and kindness,
Fred

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I think we’re running a parallel race, Fred. I don’t know that I can prove it, but I don't hold that the earthly Kingdom of God is supposed to be a paradise in a temporal sense. That is, not until the end of time when the Kingdom of Heaven is brought to earth. Nor, do I believe there are two Kingdoms, in the way of a division between heaven and earth, instead spiritually ONE; a Kingdom of God’s universal creation.

JoeT

JoeT777,
I agree,
But the problem with the Dead Sea Scrolls is the same with the bible.
Those who read and study them are of different ideas and interpretations of them.
Part of the problem is that they are all fragments.
From what I understand none are complete.
A lot of information on them is available at this site:
Educational Site: Dead Sea Scrolls
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arcura

JoeT777,
I agree,
But the problem with the Dead Sea Scrolls is the same with the bible.
Those who read and study them are of different ideas and interpretations of them.
Part of the problem is that they are all fragments.
From what I understand none are complete.
A lot of information on them is available at this site:
Educational Site: Dead Sea Scrolls
Peace and kindness,
Fred

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Thanks Fred, that's great. You do know that one chapter in Matthew tells us that on one day Christ read the book of Isaiah (I think) and then went out and preached the Kingdom. It’s interesting that the first thing I see on this site is a pesher (commentary) of Isaiah. It might give me some idea of how the Jewish community viewed Isaiah to understand what Christ meant about His Kingdom. - you never know, I might even learn something.

JoeT

I'll have to get back to you with some Dead Sea Scroll references (I seem to have left it in my office--at last, I hope that's where it is, because it isn't here!). In the meantime you can have a look at:

The Psalms of Solomon (which are similar to the Dead Sea Scroll hymns). Written between 63 and 45 BC.

The Testament of Moses (2nd century BC).

The Psalms of Solomon are especially relevant. There's been some really good work on Jewish apocalyptic literature and early Christianity. You might want to have a look at James VanderKam and Adela Yarbro Collins if you get some time. (VanderKam is a leading Dead Sea Scroll scholar.) There's a good book, edited by VanderKam and William Adler, The Jewish Apocalyptic Heritage in Early Christianity. There's particularly good stuff in there on Enoch (which was part of the early Christian canon) and its massive influence on the NT and early Fathers.

I'll get back to you with more tomorrow.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoeT777

Thanks Fred, that's great. You do know that one chapter in Matthew tells us that on one day Christ read the book of Isaiah (I think) and then went out and preached the Kingdom. It’s interesting that the first thing I see on this site is a pesher (commentary) of Isaiah. It might give me some idea of how the Jewish community viewed Isaiah to understand what Christ meant about His Kingdom. - ya never know, I might even learn something.

JoeT

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Fred is right: The DDS are hard to sift through. But, as you say, they give us a lot of insight into the Jewish milieu at the time of Christ's ministry. There was also quite a bit of friction between early Johannine communities and followers of John the Baptist. Raymond Brown's The Community of the Beloved Disciple is quite useful. All this stuff is crucially important for understanding the ways in which the NT talks about the Kingdom. It's intricate, but really illuminating.

JoeT777,
If you do learn something new to you, PLEASE share it here with a new thread.
I'll watch for it.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Akoue,
I'll be looking forward to what you can share with Joe and the rest of us on that.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

In today's gospel Jesus in speaking of the coming Kingdom of God.
Today's Gospel (Mt 4,12-17.23-25): When Jesus heard that John had been arrested, he withdrew into Galilee. He left Nazareth and went to settle down in Capernaum, a town by the lake of Galilee, at the border of Zebulun and Naphtali. In this way the word of the prophet Isaiah was fulfilled: «Land of Zebulun and land of Naphtali crossed by the Road of the Sea, and you who live by the Jordan, Galilee, land of pagans, listen: The people who lived in darkness have seen a great light; on those who live in the land of the shadow of death, a light has shone».

From that time on Jesus began to proclaim his message, «Change your ways: the kingdom of heaven is near». Jesus went around all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, proclaiming the good news of the Kingdom, and curing all kinds of sickness and disease among the people. The news about him spread through the whole of Syria, and the people brought all their sick to him, and all those who suffered: the possessed, the deranged, the paralyzed, and he healed them all. Large crowds followed him from Galilee and the Ten Cities, from Jerusalem, Judea, and from across the Jordan.
I think that He is referring to the Church (assembly of bishops) He would soon establish.
What do you think?
What else do you see in this lesson?
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arcura

In today's gospel Jesus in speaking of the coming Kingdom of God.
Today's Gospel (Mt 4,12-17.23-25): When Jesus heard that John had been arrested, he withdrew into Galilee. He left Nazareth and went to settle down in Capernaum, a town by the lake of Galilee, at the border of Zebulun and Naphtali. In this way the word of the prophet Isaiah was fulfilled: «Land of Zebulun and land of Naphtali crossed by the Road of the Sea, and you who live by the Jordan, Galilee, land of pagans, listen: The people who lived in darkness have seen a great light; on those who live in the land of the shadow of death, a light has shone».

From that time on Jesus began to proclaim his message, «Change your ways: the kingdom of heaven is near». Jesus went around all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, proclaiming the good news of the Kingdom, and curing all kinds of sickness and disease among the people. The news about him spread through the whole of Syria, and the people brought all their sick to him, and all those who suffered: the possessed, the deranged, the paralyzed, and he healed them all. Large crowds followed him from Galilee and the Ten Cities, from Jerusalem, Judea, and from across the Jordan.
I think that He is referring to the Church (assembly of bishops) He would soon establish.
What do you think?
What else do you see in this lesson?
Peace and kindness,
Fred

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Fred:
We do see the beginnings of the selection of the Twelve in this chapter, a hierarchy is definitely being established. But, I think what’s more important for this topic is that there appears to be a sea change in the mindset of the “Kingdom”; from near to present.

In all of Matthew we see the Kingdom mentioned in every chapter except Chapters 1, 2, 17, 27 & 28; at least in some form. In chapter 3 it is a near at hand thing. In chapter 4 we have two different types of Kingdom’s mention; a very clear rendition of temporal kingdoms ruled by men, and the Kingdom of Heaven. The Kingdom of Heaven is indicated as being near at hand only once, in verse 17. However, in verse 23, it is discussed as if it were present. In the remaining chapters of Matthew, for the most part, we see a discussion of the Kingdom as if it were present. I’ve drawn the conclusion, and it may be because of my Catholic prejudices, that we are seeing a Kingdom that was once “near” to one that is present. In either event there is no denying that teaching of the Kingdom was an important part of Christ’s ministry. At the very least Matthew considered the idea of a Kingdom paramount.

What do you think?

JoeT

JoeT777,
I think that there are two kingdoms spiritually linked.
Before he became man, Jesus was The Word in the kingdom of heaven.
I believe that Kingdom is eternal (had no beginning and has no end to which he added angels and saints) but those of us who are saved are members of the Kingdom of God on earth who become the members of the Heavenly Kingdom.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arcura

In today's gospel Jesus in speaking of the coming Kingdom of God.
Today's Gospel (Mt 4,12-17.23-25): When Jesus heard that John had been arrested, he withdrew into Galilee. He left Nazareth and went to settle down in Capernaum, a town by the lake of Galilee, at the border of Zebulun and Naphtali. In this way the word of the prophet Isaiah was fulfilled: «Land of Zebulun and land of Naphtali crossed by the Road of the Sea, and you who live by the Jordan, Galilee, land of pagans, listen: The people who lived in darkness have seen a great light; on those who live in the land of the shadow of death, a light has shone».

From that time on Jesus began to proclaim his message, «Change your ways: the kingdom of heaven is near». Jesus went around all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, proclaiming the good news of the Kingdom, and curing all kinds of sickness and disease among the people. The news about him spread through the whole of Syria, and the people brought all their sick to him, and all those who suffered: the possessed, the deranged, the paralyzed, and he healed them all. Large crowds followed him from Galilee and the Ten Cities, from Jerusalem, Judea, and from across the Jordan.
I think that He is referring to the Church (assembly of bishops) He would soon establish.
What do you think?
What else do you see in this lesson?
Peace and kindness,
Fred

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Fred,
I think this should be in a new thread. Does not really coinside with the OP's question.

Joe, I would first say my refer is that of the Kings James Version. And the scripture which I have shown in the posts example
Revelation 1:5-6 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him [be] glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Christ made us kings and priest unto God. ( God's representative or viceregent ) So we are a priestly kingdom or a kingdom like Hebrews 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:


Again in Revelations 5:9-10 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.


These verses go on to say,It is Christ who Revelation 5:12 spoken of being the Lamb being WORTHY.. to receive power, riches wisdom strength honour glory and blessings.

AND Note the chief corner stone in bold text in the following verses of Ephesians
Eph 2:19 Therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone]; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

In Luke 17 you can read how the Pharisees asked Jesus by hostle demand when the Kingdom of God should come. Jesus replied the Kingdom is within the mist of you.
The same type of refer is shown in Matthew and John when it is acknowledged that with the intervention of the Spirit, the Kingdom of God is within the mist of you.

Matthew 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
John 1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;

I believe scripture is telling us that God's Kingdom is in the mist of the Holy Spirit.

`child of God

450donn
I should have thought of that
Fred

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sndbay

Joe, I would first say my refer is that of the Kings James Version. And the scripture which I have shown in the posts example
Revelation 1:5-6 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him [be] glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Christ made us kings and priest unto God. (God's representative or vice-regent) So we are a priestly kingdom or a kingdom like Hebrews 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

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No, I don't think so. Try reading it again. Reading verses 4 through 8 we see that the speaker is Christ. If we assume that the speaker is John, then we have a problem. And it arises in verse 8; “I am the Alpha and Omega … “ We know that John is not the Α or Ω (the beginning and the end). The 'us' is the person(s), (or spirit(s) - presumably Christ), from which John received the message. Christ has done these things; he's washed our sins, made a Kingdom which contains priests – but we aren't priests unless we've had hands laid on us. Do you not see the resemblance to Ex 19:6, “And you shall be to me a priestly kingdom, and a holy nation

I think the Douay-Rheims makes this clearer; “And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the first begotten of the dead and the prince of the kings of the earth, who hath loved us and washed us from our sins in his own blood, And hath made us a kingdom, and priests to God and his Father.” From Christ, who is the witness, prince of earthly kings, has made us a Kingdom. The Kingdom is made of all of us – no distinction between heavenly and earthly occupants. Furthermore (or AND) this Kingdom contains priests to God.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sndbay

Again in Revelations 5:9-10 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

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These are the saints in heaven, the Church Triumphant, offering to Christ prayers. The Douay-Rheims renders vese 10;” And hast made us to our God a kingdom and priests, and we shall reign on the earth.” Again, a reference back to the promises made to Moses in Ex 19:6.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sndbay

These verses go on to say,It is Christ who Revelation 5:12 spoken of being the Lamb being WORTHY.. to receive power, riches wisdom strength honour glory and blessings.

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Agreed, in verses 11 through 14 we hear thousands and thousands of voices of the Church Triumphant praising Christ.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sndbay

AND Note the chief corner stone in bold text in the following verses of Ephesians
Eph 2:19 Therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone]; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

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Please refer back to my comments made yesterday (link) The meaning behind "corner stone" has been understood down through the ages with those who are in the industry.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sndbay

In Luke 17 you can read how the Pharisees asked Jesus by hostle demand when the Kingdom of God should come. Jesus replied the Kingdom is within the midst of you.

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A Pharisee is one of a large group of Hebrews. Christ is saying that the Kingdom is within your group of Hebrews. Why? Again the Jewish nation considered itself the Kingdom of God as was promised to Moses. At the time, Christ's church was not considered separate from Judaism. Thus the Kingdom is within the nation of Jews.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sndbay

The same type of refer is shown in Matthew and John when it is acknowledged that with the intervention of the Spirit, the Kingdom of God is within the mist of you.

Matthew 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
John 1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;

I believe scripture is telling us that God's Kingdom is in the mist of the Holy Spirit.

`child of God

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That's a far stretch. John is clearly referring to Christ. Because in the next verse we see that John the Baptist say, “The same is he that shall come after me, who is preferred before me: the latchet of whose shoe I am not worthy to loose;” A verse traditionally (anybody's tradition) understood to be a reference to Christ.

Persevering,

JoeT

Joe,
You point to 450donn was well made.
According to donn's post Where on earth is the Kingdom Jesus said he was going to establish or did He abandon that intent?
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoeT777

No, I don't think so. Try reading it again. Reading verses 4 through 8 we see that the speaker is Christ. If we assume that the speaker is John, then we have a problem. And it arises in verse 8; “I am the Alpha and Omega … “ We know that John is not the Α or Ω (the beginning and the end). The 'us' is the person(s), (or spirit(s) - presumably Christ), from which John received the message. Christ has done these things; he's washed our sins, made a Kingdom which contains priests – but we aren't priests unless we've had hands laid on us. Do you not see the resemblance to Ex 19:6, “And you shall be to me a priestly kingdom, and a holy nation


JoeT

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Take the verse Revelation 1:11 which does indeed confirm the message was given to John by Christ. John was to write down and deliver this message to the seven churches.. John was in the ( Spirit realm) according to verse 10 when he was in the mist of Christ, and he saw what was being shown to him and told to write it down.

Rev 1:11Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send [it] unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

So we can go back to verse 1:4 and read "quote John to the seven churches" It is John's delivery to the seven church the message from Christ. Verse 1:11 explains where John received the message from Christ. And verse 4 saying from HIM meaning Christ"] The wording unto you, means in the mist of you from Christ.. which was, means it was given to John... which is to come, means John's deliver of this message.

To end the 4th verse the last line also tells us, this message also comes from the seven Spirits which are before the His throne, meaning the seven eyes refer in 5:12 power, riches, wisdom, strength, honour, glory, and blessing. [/B]

Revelation 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace [be] unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

Now verse 5 goes on to say.. And (also) from Jesus Christ, who is Faithful Witness...ect

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, [who is] the faithful witness, [and] the first begotten of the dead, and the Prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,6And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him [be] glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

John is talking to the seven churches andthey are told that Christ made them all to be kings and priests in the mist of His Father which to "THE FATHER" be glory and dominion forever and ever Amen..

Originally Posted by sndbay
Again in Revelations 5:9-10 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoeT777

These are the saints in heaven, the Church Triumphant, offering to Christ prayers. The Douay-Rheims renders vese 10;” And hast made us to our God a kingdom and priests, and we shall reign on the earth.” Again, a reference back to the promises made to Moses in Ex 19:6.

JoeT

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This book of Revelation remains to be John's visit to the Spiritual realm and it is what John was told to write down.. Revelation means to reveal... This revealed truth is what John was shown of The Lords Day.. (Revelation 5:2 And I saw is John seeing) verse after verse is John saying I saw, I beheld, I heard, I looked

Revelation 5:2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?

Originally Posted by sndbay
In Luke 17 you can read how the Pharisees asked Jesus by hostle demand when the Kingdom of God should come. Jesus replied the Kingdom is within the midst of you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoeT777

A Pharisee is one of a large group of Hebrews. Christ is saying that the Kingdom is within your group of Hebrews. Why? Again the Jewish nation considered itself the Kingdom of God as was promised to Moses. At the time, Christ's church was not considered separate from Judaism. Thus the Kingdom is within the nation of Jews.

JoeT

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The Pharisee are Jews ...
The Jews spoke hebrew language.... Saul /Paul was a Jew that became a chosen vessel by God.... The Jews of Judah kept their Hebrew brothers and sisters from others tribes as slaves which was against God's wishes.... The Jews did not accept Christ or His teachings.... The Jews wanted Christ died.

Luke 17:20 And when He was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, He answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

John 5:16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.

John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal
With God.

John 7:1 After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for He would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him.

Note that no one amount the people at the feast dared to speak of Christ... Ask yourself who were the people at the feast? Were these people that feared the Jews also the people who follow Christ?
John 7:13 Howbeit no man spake openly of Him for fear of the Jews.

Getting back to what Jesus said to the Pharisee "The kingdom of God cometh not with observation" So the kingdom was not something seen by the eye of man "Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! " but rather it was Jesus who said for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Again not seen but within you ... I believe in the Holy Spirit, The Holy Spirit is with us. The Holy Spirit was with Christ.. The Kingdom of God is the realm of Spiritual connection that is in the mist of the fellowship that walks in Christ here on earth.


Romans 8:14-15 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father

1 Corinthian 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

John 16:7-14

sndbay,
At the time Jesus said that the Kingdom could not be observed, it could not be seen.
BUT...
After he established His Church on earth it could be and is observable with priests and bishops world wide.
Peace and kindness,
Fred.

Joe This is the way I see The Kingdom of God. When Jesus came and died on the
Cross He made way for the Holy Spirit, that activates the creative word and relates, it
That which is created. He inspired the Scriptures and empowers God's people. He takes the things of Jesus and brings them to our remembrance. "John 16:8 tells us that
He convicts the world "of sin, and righteousness, and of judgment." All three persons
of the Godhead are eternal and has existed forever. Always the Father loved the Son and the Son loved and served the Father. From that relationship the Spirit of God
{ Holy Spirt ] came into being. They all three have existed from before there was
anything that could begin, three distinct Persons all functioning as one. They all work together to bring about the Kingdom od God. The Father the Creator the first the
cause of everything. Primary thought of what has been and will be created.
The Son the expresson of God, the "only begotten" of the Father. read John 14:9
The Son of God is our redeemer and agent of our creation. The Holy Spirit
who brings us all truth to us and activates the creative word. I am telling you this
because you need to understand and know the beginning before you can understand the
Kingdom of God, and how to get there. At Jesus baptism the Father spoke from
heaven, the Son was fulfilling all righteousness and the Spirit descended upon the
Son like a dove. Matthew 3:16. All three persons of the Trinity were present.
We will understand the Trinity more clearly some day. The Godhead work together
they are all One but three persons doing their work for the Kingdom.We
must be borned again of the spirit to see the Kingdom of God. John 3:3
Our first birth was our human birth. The second birth was when we received Jesus to cleanse
from our sin and making Him the Lord of our life. This enables us individual to be
re-created and joined with God's Spirit the Holy Spirit.
This enable us to have the spiritual vision necessary to see and enter the Kingdom of God. When we are born again we can see God and be part of it, But Gods Kingdom
is only for spiritual beings. Paul said "The natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to Him: nor can he know them, because they
Are spiritually discerned. 1Cor.2:4 So access to this kingdom is gained only though
The new birth by the Spirit of God. The Kingdom of God is eternal. It is a place where
All Christians ultimately will dwell. At this time it is an invisible Kingdom in our midst.
Wherever there are those who honor the King, and wherever the Spirit of the King is,
There is the Kingdom od God. The Kingdom of God is with in us, and that gives us His
Power to His work and overcome satan in our life. There is a heaven we will go to
When our work is finish where we will have new bodies we will have total communication
And fellowship " He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be with them and be their God. And God will wipe away ever tear from their eyes
there shall be no more death, nor sorrow nor crying; and there shall be no more pain, for
the former things have all passed away." Rev21:3-4