My pastor has been doing a series on end times. About the rapture, the anitchrist, and the 7year tribulation period. He made this comment: "America is now a POST Christian nation". I found that sad and true. He also talked about America in Prophecy and suggested that the "silence is deafening". In other words... the Bible doesn't really speak about America. The only thing we know for sure, is that WE as a nation will no longer be able to protect Israel.. for whatever reason. Therefore the anti-christ comes on the scene and signs a 7 year peace treaty with Israel.

He listed several scenarios for what could have happened to America. We could be attacked for the outside, we could be attacked from the inside. ( we have given up Christianity for the most part. God says righteousness EXALTS a nation. BUT the most likely he felt would be the rapture of the church. There would be an estimated 25-30 million people rapture prior to the tribulation. The effects on American would be caticlysmic. What are you thoughts concerning why America isn't in prohpecy?

He also suggested that the amount of true Christians that would be rapture around the world was really low. He gave statistics of people who actually professed Christianity in other countries. They would be impacted but not nearly like the USA.

I was reading Ezekial 31 over the weekend and God gave me this chapter to be what is/will happen to the USA in the coming months. The moral decay of this nation is so bad now that I fear Gods wrath is upon us and we (as a nation) are deaf to the consequences.
There are several passages referencing the Eagle but nothing definite that I have ever read. And after reading and listening to several scholars on the end times, I also tend to believe that the USA will be relegated to a third world nation and have no bearing on the outcome.
Personally I have been led to pray for this nation like never before in my life.

Well, I agree with you 450donn... this is a POST christian country and you can't leave God out and expect his protection. It is sad to see... I can't imagine MY America in such a state and yet it is all around me.

Just think of Roe V Wade and the consequences of that act. How many Einsteins have we killed in the past 30 years. How many Billie Grahams? God will only wait so long and then he will act. I fear that what we are seeing today is the start of his wrath on this country.
If I am not being too nosy, who is your pastor?

Oh, he isn't anyone famous or anything... he has a church of about 1000... you wouldn't know him.

Whoever he is sounds like you have a good one.
God Bless.

When the bible speaks about the gentiles, america is included. America was also involved in the war that brought about the current nation of israel.
Those who are true christians are abraham's seed(offspring).
Gal 3:29 And if ye are Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, heirs according to promise.
I'm always amazed of the contrast between our society's ways, and the way god wants things to be. But narrow is the way to heaven.
Israel in jesus's time was evil. I'm not sure if you can judge the end times by america's evil, but perhaps the end of america by god's wrath.

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Originally Posted by cogs

when the bible speaks about the gentiles, america is included. america was also involved in the war that brought about the current nation of israel.
those who are true christians are abraham's seed(offspring).
Gal 3:29 And if ye are Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, heirs according to promise.
i'm always amazed of the contrast between our society's ways, and the way god wants things to be. but narrow is the way to heaven.
israel in jesus's time was evil. i'm not sure if you can judge the end times by america's evil, but perhaps the end of america by god's wrath.

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Actually as I understand it gentiles are all NON Jews, so in that respect us westerners are talked about. But the specific question as I understood it was, is America specifically talked about in the bible and the end times? And that answer is no, we are not talked about except in a few obscure passages where it talks about a multi headed beast and one of the heads is an Eagles. Which I take to mean the USA. Don't know if I am right or wrong on that issue. I am still waiting for some indepth study of Revelations.

Personally, I believe that God raised up the US to provide the base for world evangelism, primarially because that is the most important function that this country has had, as far as God is concerned. If and when it ceases to do that, then I believe events will remove the US from its position as world leader.

Maybe the present economic situation will eventually lead to that. Remember that it was the economy that caused the fall of the USSR.

At any rate, the focus of end time events will be the Middle East, so it seems reasonable that there will be a major shift in world powers.

As Christians, we look forward to our ultimate redemption, so REJOICE.

All nations (including America) will take part in the tribulation invasion of Israel:
Joel 3:1-3 1For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem, 2I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.

Ezekiel 39:6 might also be a reference to America. Jonathan Edwards believed those living carelessly in the Isles was America.
And I will send a fire on Magog, Russiaand among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: America?and they shall know that I am the LORD.

There are some who see America in Jeremiah chapters 50-51, and Revelation chapter 18 as references to America.

I am subscribing to this thread, because I think this is a very interesting topic..

I believe that we are in the end times.. this world is so corupt.. and horrid... just look at all the freak weather occurrences, earthquakes, fires.. and so on..

So many of God's warnings of the end times are happening as we speak.. Get ready and make sure your heart is good with God.. I just pray that there is a rapture... but honestly, I don't believe there will be :(

I believe that we are in the '' sixth hour ''! Not only America but the whole world.
Mark 15:33 And when the sixth hour was come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour.

34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? Which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

This is a '' 3 hour '' period that will lead to the '' death of the human part of Jesus ''.
I do not know how to explain this better , I am sorry!

So, Plonak, you are a post trib? This is really off topic and you might want to start another thread, but please explain why you feel that way?

450donn,

Go for it... talk about it... it is an important topic too because if you don't believe in a pre-trib raprue something must happen other than the rapture to change America as a world power.

I believe that because who is going to preach to all the non believers if we go up?

There is going to be massive confusion, and I really think God wants us to be there preaching God's word... how else will some of the nonbelievers have a chance to be saved if they have no idea what's going on?

There will be many many that will not make it in the first round. How many profess to be Christian on Sunday but Monday through Saturday live like the devil. Those who's hearts are not right will be left. Many of those will realize after it is too late and repent. Most will not survive through the tribulation, but some will because God tells us that during the milenium there will be children born. That is not possible with a raptured body, is it? Not only that, the Jewish nation will still be present in the world. Since most have never accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and savior they will remain because the final battle is fought in Isreal and many of them will take part in that battle.

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Originally Posted by 450donn

There will be many many that will not make it in the first round. How many profess to be Christian on Sunday but Monday thru Saturday live like the devil. Those who's hearts are not right will be left. Many of those will realize after it is too late and repent. Most will not survive through the tribulation, but some will because God tells us that during the milenium there will be children born. That is not possible with a raptured body, is it? Not only that, the Jewish nation will still be present in the world. Since most have never accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and savior they will remain because the final battle is fought in Isreal and many of them will take part in that battle.

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I couldn't disagree with you more. EVERY Christian will be caught up in the rapture and all those that have rejected the truth of the gospel God is going to send a strong delusion that they will believe a lie. There WILL be believers during the tribulation BUT, they will become believers AFTER the rapture and during the tribulation period. There will be those who do not take the mark of the beast.. their lives are going to be horrible but nevertheless, they will believe.

Exactly what I said in different words. There are those that think they are christians and will be left behind( sorry) that will after the ratpure realize the error of their ways and repent. Some of those will still refuse to accept the truth

I just hope to goodness that there is a rapture.. but honestly it just seems to good to be true.. I think God would want to test EVERYONE.. even the believers..

450donn do you believe we're in the beginning of the tribulation?

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Originally Posted by plonak

450donn do you believe we're in the beginning of the tribulation?

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Emphatically NO!
I do not believe we are in the tribulation. However I do firmly believe that what we are witnessing in the world especially the last 90 days or so clearly we are in the end times.
God will only allow the mess we are seeing today to go on for a little while before he says enough is enough. Scriptures tell us that he will not return (rapture the church) until the last person on Earth has had the opportunity he hear the gospel. That has almost happened, especially with the advent of satellite TV.

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Originally Posted by 450donn

Exactly what I said in different words. There are those that think they are christians and will be left behind( sorry) that will after the ratpure realize the error of their ways and repent. some of those will still refuse to accept the truth

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The problem with that thought is that God says that he is sending a strong delusion to those that have heard the truth and rejected it. So I really think that if they HAVE HEARD the gospel and said.. "NO" there is no hope for them However, there are many people who have not heard the true gospel or have heard and not fully understood. THEY will believe and there will be plenty of people that will be running for their lives during this time. I do not envy them. It will be the worst time EVER. But God always has his few that are out preaching the truth to those and there will be people saved during this horrible time.

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Originally Posted by plonak

I believe that because who is going to preach to all the non believers if we go up?

There is going to be massive confusion, and I really think God wants us to be there preaching God's word... how else will some of the nonbelievers have a chance to be saved if they have no idea what's going on?

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There will be people who will get saved and preach the truth. But the BRIDE of Christ will be raptured out of here. Praise the LORD for his mercy on his Church. We are not appointed to wrath and that is exactly what God is going to pour out.. his wrath. It won't be pretty. It is going to be hell on earth.

I agree with cogs on this.
I also believe that when the bible speaks of the world and gentiles that the American continents are included.
I also believe that God helped establish the USA in the manner it was for a specific reason, whatever that was or is.
I also believe that the USA will be a major player in several ways during the last days.
I pray that it will be a positive player in God's eyes and intent when that time comes to pass.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

I have not read all the responses here so forgive me if this has been said. But, to answer the initial question "is Americal in end time prophecy". I would direct you to Rev. 12:14. My pastor has also been doing a in depth study of Revelations and he says that these "eagles wings" could be a reference to the US helping Israel flee. Being that our national symbol is a eagle. Just a idea to play with.
God Bless,
Sarah

I really do think we are entering the last seven years.
I also believe the Bible does refer to America but since it is not named as America in the Bible our eyes are not open to it at least not yet. Here are some sites that give different theories on that.
http://www.geocities.com/christian_crusade/

America in Bible Prophecy

America is a Bible Land

SarahMVA,
I also believe that American is mentioned in prophesy but not by name.
Fred

Nohelp,

If we were really in the last 7 years.. where is the anitchirist? And where is that 7 year peace treaty? I don't think so. I think we are so close... but after the rapture (think about how many millions of Americans will go) America will no longer be able to protect Israel, therefore she will need the anitchrist help, even if it is a false help.

Fred and Sarah,

I think the fact that America the number one super power is NOT mentioned and that the silence is deafening. If in fact we are mentioned in Revelation, we aren't what we are today. AND I submit this question to you, IF we are mentioned... and WE protect Israel today, Why in the world does the antichrist need to step up and sign a 7 year peace treaty?

classyT,
Well for starters you asked if the US is in the end time prophecy. I gave you a idea on how we might be. No, we would not be the super power we are today. Nobody would be after the rapture and the devistation it would leave. As for Israel and the antichrists peace treaty; this treaty is not between US and Israel it is the peace treaty that presidents have for the last 50 years tried to bring into being. It is a peace treaty between Israel and the rest of the middle east and backed by the antichrist. This treaty will stop anyone from coming agaist Israel. Which will be necessary being that before the tribulation begins Russia will attack Israel. The antichrist will brake this treaty 3.5 years into the tribulation. Which is why Israel will have to flee, and where the eagles wings come in. What are these eagles wings no one knows for sure, but one idea is what I mentioned above.

Sarah,

I understand that the peace treaty is between the middle east and Israel. My point is Where is America? I mean we are protecting her now. I think you are right.. I think the devastation that the rapture brings will leave us no longer a super power. I will look up that verse in Revelation and check it out. Thanks.

Note... sorry if I sounded snippy up there in my first reply.. I wasn't feeling snippy at all but I re read it and thought.. geesh girl you sound snotty. LOL sorry didn't mean to.

ClassyT,
That's OK. I have been accused of being snippy and worse when I never meant to be.

ClassyT,
I have recorded most of my pastors sermons on Revelations. We are about to finish up. We have been studying revelations for over a year every Wednesday. I think you would like the study. I'll try to figure a way to get them to you if you would like to hear them.

classyT.
That is IF, a very big IF, the rapture take place as it is preached and taught in the end of times books which I thing are mostly fiction.
We'll just have to wait and see when the return of Christ Jesus take place and I think that ill be many years from now because so very many people expect it soon.
Jesus said He will come back when people LEAST expect it.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

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Originally Posted by arcura

classyT.
That is IF, a very big IF, the rapture take place as it is preached and taught in the end of times books which I thing are mostly fiction.
We'll just have to wait and see when the return of Christ Jesus take place and I think that ill be many years from now because so very many people expect it soon.
Jesus said He will come back when people LEAST expect it.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

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If you are talking about the book series by Tim Lahay called Left Behind? Then yes they are totally fiction and he says so up front.
Now, IF you do not believe in the rapture of the church? Then I guess you do not have a Bible with the book of Revelations in it? Very few people do not subscribe to the rapture theory. Generally speaking the biggest debate is when the churches departure from the earth will take place. Either before the tribulation? Or during the tribulation, or at the end of the tribulation. Which do you as a practicing Catholic subscribe to? Curious minds want to know these things.

Actually, very few DO subscribe to the rapture theory. It's prominent among fundamentalists, yes, but most others reject it as lacking a sound scriptural basis.

Tell me, where in *Revelation* do you find talk of the rapture?

Fred,

The Church is looking for the rapture or they should be. The world isn't. Take a look around on this site alone... the unbelievers think the rapture is balony. Heck half of Christianity does. Trust me, they aren't expecting it.

450donn,
Yes all eight of my bibles have the book of revelations in them including the 2 versions I have that are the complete bible with the apocrypha.
No where in any of them is the rapture mentioned.
I do not believe in the rapture as it is taught by the fundamentalists.
It is NOT accurately based on Holy Scripture, but is erroneous theology.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Revelation 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Also...
1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

adam7gur
Thanks but that is not about any rapture.
It is a vision experienced by John about Jesus being taken to heaven after His resurrection and Jesus being ruler of the earth when His return comes.
Yes some will meet with Him in the clouds at the time of Jesus Christ's return and I believe that modern day media will make it possible for the whole world to witness that ONE time return.
No rapture as it is preached in any of that.
Peace and kindness.
Fred

Fred
I don't see the point of John being in ecstasy and watching visions about things that he has already witnessed with his own eyes , like our Lord's resurrection and Him being received up into heaven.
This vision is about something that is going to happen and not something that has already happened.