Ask Me Help Desk - The two great commandments.

The two great commandments.

Today's Gospel (Mt 22:34-40): When the Pharisees heard how Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, they came together. One of them, a teacher of the Law, tried to test him with this question, «Teacher, which is the most important commandment in the Law?». Jesus answered, «‘You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your mind’. This is the first and the most important of the commandments. But after this there is another one very similar to it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself’. The whole Law and the Prophets are founded on these two commandments».
Jesus said that they are similar.
On your opinion how are they similar?
:)Peace and kindness,:)
Fred (arcura)

In my opinion:

Both Laws are founded on the same base... Love
Love is unconditional, and I personally blieve there is only one form of Love.
The form described in the first commandment.

LOVE

If you obey only those two, it makes it impossible for you to break the rest.

Trandy,
Thanks for your opinion on that.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

Absolutely Trandy. That is what I was going to say as well... If you love God with all your heart and soul and love everyone else as you love yourself, you will adhere to the commandments as well.

MoonlitWaves,
Thanks for that answer,
Peace and kindness,
Fred

They have a similar character in that they both fulfill the whole intent of the Law according to God's will.

Loving God "above all"(even self) fulfills the so-called "first table" of the Law - the first three commandments.

Loving your neighbor "as much as you love yourself" fulfills the "second table" - the rest of the commandments.

Together they are the bounds that God wants the whole world to live within. But they mean little to those who are not seeking God's will because the second one can't be kept without the submissive relationship with God.

revdrgade,
Thanks.
I agree.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

I'm sorry reverend,

How do you view the fourth commandment to be under the second table?

4 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Trandy,
I personally view it as said with one exception that The Church and Jesus changed.
That is that the Sabbath is now on Sunday because the savior rose from the dead on Sunday.
Peace and kindness.
Fred

I am not trying to debate that here arcura, I was just askng why he linked that one, the day set aside by the lord for the expansion of His and our relationship between one another in with the table about man's relationship with man. I just think it belongs in the other "table"... That's all.

Peace and kindness to you!

T. Randy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trandy

I'm sorry reverend,

How do you view the fourth commandment to be under the second table?

4 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Some church bodies have different numbering of the commandments. To DrGade and me (Lutherans), the fourth commandment is "Honor thy father and thy mother"--under the second table of the Law. The third commandment is "Remember the Sabbath day...."--under the first table of the Law.

Here is the Lutheran version of how the commandments are numbered:

http://www.lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=2143

Oh... thanks for that clarification.

That's very interesting!

Trandy,
Thanks for your explanation.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

You skip the second?

2 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments

Why?

Trandy,
Because that speak of images some people may worship.
Note that in the Bible God commands that certain images and icon be made.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trandy

You skip the second?

2 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments

Why?

No, it is not skipped. Why do you think that?

Wondergirl
No, I can't vote for Obama.
I'm a Christian.
I must vote against him.
Obama is a supported of killing developing persons in the womb and a supporter of same sex marriage which is against the marriage of a woman and man as God instituted.
Otherwise several of the things he does stand for I agree with, but I can not vote for someone who is against what God wants and does.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcura

Wondergirl
No, I can't vote for Obama.
I'm a Christian.
I must vote against him.
Obama is a supported of killing developing persons in the womb and a supporter of same sex marriage which is against the marriage of a woman and man as God instituted.
Otherwise several of the things he does stand for I agree with, but I can not vote for someone who is against what God wants and does.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Then please don't vote for McCain either, if those are your reasons--"someone who is against what God wants and does." McCain flagrantly and willfully broke and continues to break commandments. If God and you can forgive him, you can forgive Obama. God does.

I, like Obama, agree that, if the life of the mother is at risk, the near-term baby should be sacrificed. I, like Obama, believe that giving civil benefits to same-sex partners is not marriage and does not go against what God wants--loving our neighbor as ourself (Jesus' second great commandment).

Although Barack Obama has said that he supports civil unions, he is against gay marriage. In an interview with the Chicago Tribune, Obama said, "I'm a Christian. And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman."

[QUOTE=Trandy;1342164]I'm sorry reverend,

How do you view the fourth commandment to be under the second table?

There are different orders given listing the Law of Moses. I was raised with the Fourth Commandment being "Honor your father and Mother..."
That's why I included it into the people to people table and not the people to God table.

Wondergirl, It is not a matter of my forgiving.
In Obama's case it is what he intends to do if elected.
He has said that he intends to make abortions easier to get and to abolish the late term abortions ban.
He supports same sex marriage ignoring God's instituted marriage between and man and woman and want s to make same sex marriage the law of the land even though several states have outlawed it.
That is why as a Christian I can not vote for him.
Peace and kindness,
Fred.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcura

Wondergirl, It is not a matter of my forgiving.
In Obama's case it is what he intends to do if elected.
He has said that he intends to make abortions easier to get and to abolish the late term abortions ban.
He supports same sex marriage ignoring God's instituted marriage between and man and woman and want s to make same sex marriage the law of the land even though several states have outlawed it.
That is why as a Christian I can not vote for him.
Peace and kindness,
Fred.

You didn't read what I posted, did you.

Please cite sources that Obama has said these things. Thank you very much.

Wondergirl,
CNN. Fox News, NBC, CBS, NBC. Yo ma,e a few.
All near the beginning of the campaign.
Also his voting record prove it beyond a doubt.
Fred

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcura

Wondergirl,
CNN. Fox News, NBC, CBS, NBC. yo ma,e a few.
All near the beginning of the campaign.
Also his voting record prove it beyond a doubt.
Fred

He supports a woman's right to choose. Is that the burr under your saddle?

She could choose... not to have sex!!

There are grave circumstances such as rape, where Icould see this as an acceptable?? Alternative, but there are many folks in this world that want a child but aren't able to conceive. Adoption agencies.

Once life is created, it shouldn't be up to a woman to terminate it. In any book,(the one with the sabbath commandment as the fourth or as the third) this would be murder.

Why do you ignore the part about gay marriage?
He didn't just mention abortion on it's own.

Besides, this is a religious thread... it's probably pretty thin on liberals... LOL

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Some church bodies have different numbering of the commandments. To DrGade and me (Lutherans), the fourth commandment is "Honor thy father and thy mother"--under the second table of the Law. The third commandment is "Remember the Sabbath day...."--under the first table of the Law.

Here is the Lutheran version of how the commandments are numbered:

The Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod - Ten Commandments

Quote:

Originally Posted by YOUR LINK

I-You shall have no other gods.

I, I alone, am God, your Lord; all idols are to be abhorred. Trust me, step boldly to my throne, sincerely love me alone. Have mercy, Lord!

Where the heart is right with God, all the other commandments follow. When a commandment is broken, this is symptomatic of the fact that the human heart, by nature, is turned away from God. God made us to be His own. He has given Himself to us through our Lord Jesus Christ. Whatever claims our greatest loyalty, fondest hopes or deepest affection is our god and takes the place God alone wants to have in our lives. Through the Word and Sacraments, the Holy Spirit works in our hearts true fear, love and trust in God above all things. (Isaiah 42:8; Matt. 4:10; Prov. 11:28; Ps. 118:8; John 14:15; Phil. 2:13).

II-You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God.

Do not my holy name disgrace, do not my Word of truth debase. Praise only that as good and true which I myself say and do. Have mercy, Lord!

The Lord gave us a great treasure when we were baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. The name of our Lord is above any other name, in heaven or on earth. With God's name, comes His power to save. Using the name of the Holy Trinity as a curse word, or swearing by it for dishonest or frivolous purposes, or using it to mislead people about His Word, is sin.

How good to know that we can call on the name of the Lord at any time, and in any situation in life, for any need. Because the Lord opens our lips, we declare His praise as we pray and give thanks in His holy name. (Ex. 20:7; Lev. 24:15; James 3:9-10; Lev. 19:12; Jer. 23:31; Ps. 50:5; Ps. 103:1; Eph. 5:20; Phil. 2:10—11).

III-Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy.

It's your link!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by MY BIBLE NKJV

2 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments

Show me in your link where that one is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trandy

She could choose...not to have sex!!!

There are grave circumstances such as rape, where Icould see this as an acceptable??? alternative, but there are many folks in this world that want a child but aren't able to concieve. Adoption agencies.

Once life is created, it shouldn't be up to a woman to terminate it. In any book,(the one with the sabbath commandment as the fourth or as the third) this would be murder.

Why do you ignore the part about gay marriage?
He didn't just mention abortion on it's own.

Besides, this is a religious thread...it's probably pretty thin on liberals...LOL

I'm not a liberal. I'm a disgusted Republican.

Obama has said he is all for civil unions and is against gay marriage, since marriage is between a man and a woman. (I had recently posted that in some other thread on this site, and will find it again and document it if you wish.)

Obama had said on Oprah or The View that he is all for young people making the choice NOT to have sex until they are emotionally and financially ready to have a baby.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trandy

She could choose...not to have sex!!!

By the same token, the male could also choose not to have sex...

Please don't put all the responsibility on the female.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trandy

Show me in your link where that one is.

It's listed as Roman numeral II.

"II-You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God.

Do not my holy name disgrace, do not my Word of truth debase. Praise only that as good and true which I myself say and do. Have mercy, Lord!

The Lord gave us a great treasure when we were baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. The name of our Lord is above any other name, in heaven or on earth. With God's name, comes His power to save. Using the name of the Holy Trinity as a curse word, or swearing by it for dishonest or frivolous purposes, or using it to mislead people about His Word, is sin.

How good to know that we can call on the name of the Lord at any time, and in any situation in life, for any need. Because the Lord opens our lips, we declare His praise as we pray and give thanks in His holy name. (Ex. 20:7; Lev. 24:15; James 3:9-10; Lev. 19:12; Jer. 23:31; Ps. 50:5; Ps. 103:1; Eph. 5:20; Phil. 2:10—11)."

Wondergirl,
Yes a woman and a man should have a right to choose.
It is what they choose that causes the problem.
I choose to be against murder.
There is the law that says that we should not kill another human being.
That applies to every human being no matter what their age.
A baby developing in the womb is a human being, and even God recognizes that the that baby is a person developing there as I posted the scripture that point that out.
Once the egg in the womb is fertilized is as all the parts of a human being and begins to develop. I'm 75 years old and still developing.
As I mentioned, much of what Obama stands for I agree with.
I'm an old fashioned Democrat and believe that most of the Democratic platform is the best for the people of this country, but the two ultra radically liberal planks that support abortions and gay marriages or unions my conscience can not abide by.
I still vote democrat when I can, but if that person is a supporter of those 2 planks and if the seat that person is running for cab have an influence of supporting them I can not vote for them and MUST vote against them because millions of very young lives are at stake.
Please vote your Christian conscience because you will have to live with it.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcura

Wondergirl,
Yes a woman and a man should have a right to choose.

Fred!! I said "choose to have sex" -- not choose to abort.

And I already answered you about the gay marriage thing. Obama is against it.

Wondergirl,
Choosing to have sex without accepting the consequences is immature and foolish PARTICULARLY if that person has the penchant to kill the baby if a pregnancy occurs.
That is primarily what I meant with what I said.
It breaks my heart that in this day and age there are so many Democrats that support those two extremely immoral planks in the party platform.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcura

Wondergirl,
Choosing to have sex without accepting the consequences is immature and foolish PARTICULARLY if that person has the penchant to kill the baby if a pregnancy occurs.
That is primarily what I meant with what I said.
It breaks my heart that in this day and age there are so many Democrats that support those two extremely immoral planks in the party platform.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

And I meant -- Choose to have sex or not to have sex--only choose it if they are emotionally and financially prepared to accept a child in their lives.

Wondergirl,
I agree!!
Fred

I agree with both of you, and will simply choose to look up scripture to support
This statement made way earlier in this thread from acrura
"Note that in the Bible God commands that certain images and icon be made."

Are you referring to the jewish temple... arc of the covenant etc...

Wondergirl,
I know you are bright, I've read some of your posts in other threads. Election years are difficult for Christians... hard to love your neighbor when they so vehemently support the candidate that wouldn't be of your choosing... ehhhh In my experience, anytime subjects such as politics or religion are brought up, one is begging for disagreement.

However, I don't think you get my jist... I'm not saying that You left out the second commandment. What I am saying is that the list of commandments you have listed is different from the one that I was taught. I can't really explain it very well, but to me it sticks out like a sore thumb. The commandment about constructing Idols isn't there.
Also, there are some differences at the end. To me, it's like the edited version of the ten commandmets.

I'm not saying I'm right, and you're wrong, just pointing out the differences.

Here are the Ten Commandments as I was taught.

And here is a description of the differnces
None really, just the way the actual bible text is pieced together.
I guess you combine 1&2 in my list, and I combine 9&10 from your list.

God never spoke as seen on TV... ONE etc... TWOetc... and so on and so on, he just listed them. He actually scribed them on the stones, but something is evidently lost in the translation, or the telling of it all over the many years. We'll never know until they open up the arc of the covenant and see the order they are actually in.

I wish I could speak greek and hebrew, so I wouldn't have to read translations from someone else. So much can be lost in translation.

It's a good thing the lord sent Jesus!! Thank you Jesus!!

People are confusing!

Trandy,
I was speaking of the temple and others.
You'll find information about then here...
Ex 25:18-22, 26:1,31; Num 21:8-9... God commands images made.
1 Kings 6:23-29, 35, 7:29... Solomon's temple: statues and images.
Good night. I'm going to bed and say my night time prayers. Your covered in them along with everyone here.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcura

Today's Gospel (Mt 22:34-40):

'You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your mind'.
'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'

Jesus said that they are similar. On your opinion how are they similar?

From my seat, the most telling similarity between these two "great commandments" is that they completely set your life's focus away from yourself.

Our first greatest responsibility is to acknowledge our accountability to God, to look up for guidance and wisdom.
Our second greatest responsibility is to portray that wisdom and guidance to the good of of others, not ourselves.

In life, the things that we do for our own benefit appear to be the most meaningless of all.

JBeaucaire
Excellent.
Thanks
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBeaucaire

From my seat, the most telling similarity between these two "great commandments" is that they completely set your life's focus away from yourself.

Our first greatest responsibility is to acknowledge our accountability to God, to look up for guidance and wisdom.
Our second greatest responsibility is to portray that wisdom and guidance to the good of of others, not ourselves.

In life, the things that we do for our own benefit appear to be the most meaningless of all.

Something I learned in Sunday School a thousand years ago:

J (Jesus first) + O (others next) + Y (yourself last) -- what does it spell? JOY

Arcura, just a question- how do you know that Christ rose from the dead on a Sunday?
Don't give me the reason of Good Friday. How do you know he died on a Friday?

Wondergirl.
Thanks for the Joy!!
Peace and kindness,
Fred