Have any of you heard the news clip about the blood moons and lunar eclipses in 2015 marking the second coming of Christ, meaning the rapture would have to take place THIS year, THIS month, most probably on Rosh Hashana (feast of the trumpets) My sister in law and her husband, a minister, are really trying to minister to everyone they can because they believe we ARE in the end times. Does anyone have any evidence to the contrary. I am a Christian and know I'm going to heaven, but I am not ready to leave this earth yet... Thanks!

There have been countless groups who have been certain that they have received signs of "the end of times" - yet the end of times has never happened. Where did you hear this news clip?

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Originally Posted by ashley0716

I am a Christian and know I'm going to heaven, but I am not ready to leave this earth yet....Thanks!

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I don't know of anyone who is ready for heaven. If jesus comes now or later, we should still be repenting of our sins. It's an ongoing process, and I'm sure playing a harp in heaven won't prevent you from sinning. Don't look up, look inside yourself.

There are actually several news clips, I found them on YouTube, segments from different pastors such as Glenn Perry (I think that's his name, John Hagee and several others) See, the book of Revelation states that "the moon will turn to blood and the celestial bodies will fall from the sky...." On NASA's website, it reveals that 2 blood moons and 4 lunar eclipses are supposed to all fall on Jewish holidays in the sabbatical year of 2015 which for us would be September 2014 to September 2015. They said it marks the second coming of Christ, which means the end of the tribulation meaning the BEGINNING of the tribulation and the rapture of the church would happen at the end of this month, this year. Also another thing that started to weird me out, was the Sanhedron in Jerusalem reconvening to rebuild the temple of Jerusalem, which in Revelation states will be where the antichrist goes and sits halfway through the tribulation period. The Sanhedron hasn't been around in like 1600 years. Kind of makes you wonder huh?

Post the links to the YouTube clips, I'm sure all here would be interested in such a dire prediction.

YouTube - Rapture - Fall 2008? (Pt 1 of 6)

YouTube - Why the Rapture date is called the day that no man knew!

These are just two of them, there are actually several. And I wanted to correct one of the ministers I named... Glenn Beck not Glenn Perry. Let me know your views on this!

I think it is possible. The ONE thing that Jesus said had to be done before "the end" (obviously of the Church age) was that the Gospel of the Kingdom would be preached in all the world for a witness. That is being accomplished at the present time.

Now we know that there is NO way we can KNOW the day and hour, but we are told to be watchful, and we can recognize the signs of the times.

The idea that is might be possible this year is exciting, but don't lose your equilibrium.

And to those who think we are talking about the END OF THE WORLD, that is not the case. Whenever the rapture occurs, (and it will sometime), there will be plenty of preachers left to tell you that whatever happened, it isn't the rapture, because just look, WE are still here.
(smile!)

Spirit of Truth speaks of the end times and what will take place. Don't be deceived like Eve was by a lie.

II Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

II Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

II Thessalonians 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

II Thessalonians 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

II Thessolonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

II Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

II Thessalonians 2:9-10 Even Him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

After reading all these scriptures, verse by verse, would you be deceived by contradiction offered by a woman who made up this rapture hoax. Can you be deceived in believing you will fly out on some cloud before satan's arrives? OR could satan come and offer to fly you out saying he is he that has come to save you? Our Father says His children will be destroyed by lack of knowledge. Lack of knowledge in Truth..

Ezekiel 13:20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I [am] against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make [them] fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, [even] the souls that ye hunt to make [them] fly.

Paul told us this: Galations 1:10-12 For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Call upon Christ for the answer.. He will reveal the Truth. AND Hear HIM

Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
(KJV)

1 Cor 15:51-52
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
(KJV)

1Thes 4:14-18
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
(KJV)

Here the Apostle Paul tells us to comfort one another with these words. There is NO comfort in the thought that we will be forced to go through the Great Tribulation.

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Originally Posted by Galveston1

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Here the Apostle Paul tells us to comfort one another with these words. There is NO comfort in the thought that we will be forced to go through the Great Tribulation.

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Why?.. A Child of God has no fear

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Follow and Hear .. Example

Deu 31:6 Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the LORD thy God, He [it is] that doth go with thee; He will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.

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Originally Posted by sndbay

Why?.. A Child of God has no fear

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Follow and Hear .. Example

Deu 31:6 Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the LORD thy God, He [it is] that doth go with thee; He will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.

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Of course this is true. It doesn't address the Scripture I posted though.

Only Those Without the Seal of God

Revelation 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

Length of Time for satan's deception on earth

Revelation 9:5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

God's Children are Present at this Time still on Earth

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Warning to Take Note: Because Christ does not want you to be deceived like Eve. Satan as a man [666] will come falsely claiming to be Christ. That's why he will be called anti-christ.

Matthew 24: 25 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.


1 Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for [the trumpet shall sound], and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1 Cr 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality.
1 Cr 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Follow scripture to the Last Trump.. The last sound.. the last seal

Revelation 5:1 And I saw in the right hand of Him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.

Christ Returns Seven Seal.. seventh sound

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [The Kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever.

I believe you are missing some things. I won't post all the references here (unless you want them). John is called up into Heaven, and he sees 24 elders at the Throne. Read their song. I believe this is the song of the redeemed up through the rapture. The Gospel will be preached all through the Great Tribulation, and the remanant of Israil will accept Jesus as Messiah at that time. They are the saints present that Satan persecutes.

Now as to Mt. ch 24: The subject brought up by the Apostles was the Temple. Jesus plainly told them that it would be destroyed in their generation. The phrase that we have to deal with is the degree of tribulation spoken of by Jesus. If you read what Josephus recorded about the destruction of Jerusalem, it is hard to imagine a time of horror that would surpass that. Will the Great Tribulation be more horrific than what happened to the inhabitants of Jerusalem? I can't say for sure, but the prophecy of the destruction has been fulfilled once, and I am not sure that I believe every prophecy has to have more than one fulfillment

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Originally Posted by Galveston1

John is called up into Heaven, and he sees 24 elders at the Throne.

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Revelation 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

John was shown the future of the Lord's Day

Revealtion 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

Each trumpet is sufficient to sound and seal to the last trump.

REVELATION SCOPE. The key to unlock the meaning and scope of the book is found in 1:10. "The Lord's day" = THE DAY OF THE LORD (Jehovah). (See Isa. 2:12) John was not in "a state of spiritual exaltation" on any particular Sunday at Patmos, as the result of which "he saw visions and dreamed dreams". But as we are told, "I came to be (or found myself) by the Spirit in the day of the Lord" (cp. Ezek. 1:1; 8:3, &c.). He is then shown, and both sees and hears (22:8), the things he records.

"The day of the Lord" being yet future, it follows that the whole book must concern the things belonging to "that day", and consequently is wholly prophecy. Though partial adumbrations of judgment may be traced in connection with affairs of past history, yet the significant, solemn warning here (1:10) that the "judgments" in Revelation relate to the day of the Lord, "the day of vengeance" (cp. Isa. 61:2; 63:4, &c.), makes it clear that the book concerns the future, and the day of the unveiling (the Apocalypse) of the great "King of kings and Lord of lords"

Why do you say the seals and trumpets are the same? The Day of the Lord is a day of wrath and judgment. We, as Christians are not appointed to wrath.
1Thes 5:9
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
(KJV)

The saints persecuted by Satan during the Great Tribulation are Israel. She will accept Jesus as her Messiah during that period.
Certainly, everything in the Book of Revelation (after the churches of Asia) is prophecy. (Incidentally, that fact disproves the Catholic interpretation of the sun-clothed woman as being Mary.) If the Apostle Paul was not describing the rapture, then what was he talking about? He even expected himself to be alive (he said "we" who remain).
II Th 2:7
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
(KJV)

In this verse, who or what will be taken out of the way? Is "he" taken out so that Antichrist can come into his own? Or is "he" hiding who the Antichrist is and must be taken away so that all can see who Antichrist is? I cannot accept the second possibility, since Satan will not hide Antichrist's identity, and since Satan will not be taken out of the way at this time. That leaves me with the first possibility, that "he" is keeping Antichrist from coming to power. I don't beilive "he" is the Holy Spirit, because, the Holy Spirit is always everywhere. That leaves me with the Church. The Church is always referred to as the Body of Christ, making it "he", and this fits. The presence of the Church prevents Antichrist from coming to power.

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Originally Posted by Galveston1

II Th 2:7
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
(KJV)

In this verse, who or what will be taken out of the way? Is "he" taken out so that Antichrist can come into his own? Or is "he" hiding who the Antichrist is and must be taken away so that all can see who Antichrist is? I cannot accept the second possiblity, since Satan will not hide Antichrist's identity, and since Satan will not be taken out of the way at this time. That leaves me with the first possibility, that "he" is keeping Antichrist from coming to power. I don't beilive "he" is the Holy Spirit, because, the Holy Spirit is always everywhere. That leaves me with the Church. The Church is always referred to as the Body of Christ, making it "he", and this fits. The presence of the Church prevents Antichrist from coming to power.

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So you feel the church saves the world from antichirst?

"he" is him that remains obedient and faithful and not deceived. he that will not have the mark of the beast within his head, but instead has the seal of God. Not at all unlike Eve who once in the beginning had the choice. Does an individual stay within the wings of the eagle for protection and guidance being nourished for the short time that satan is on earth?
This is a free will choice of obedience, and faith. Hearing and yet being fore told is a choice to follow as a child of God.
As to ourselves, the question of "who is in the secret?" does not arise. For we are not to suppose that all who do not know of it are "lost". One thing we know, and that is : it is made known for "the obedience of faith", or for "faith-obedience" (Rom 16.26). It is a subsequent revelation; and the question is, do we believe it and obey it by acting according to it?

Abraham had several Divine revelations made to him. From his call in Gen. 11 he was a "righteous" man. In ch. 12 he believed God concerning His promises of the future. In ch. 13 he believed God concerning the promise of the Land.
But in ch. 15 God made a further revelation concerning the see which He would give him; and it is written, "Abraham believed in the Lord, and it was counted (or imputed) unto him for righteousness". Even so with ourselves and the subsequent revelation of the mystery in the Prison Epistles. Let us believe it, and we may be sure that it will be counted unto us for something, for some blessing, which those who refuse to believe it will lose.

But does it not say in the bible that there are many antichrists?
Who is to say the church hasn't saved us from them-
But when the church is outnumbered by the world they wouldn't be able to-
Isn't it a pre-requisite for the antichrist to come to power before Christ's return?
There will be the battle of Armageddon- Babylon is defeated and Christ returns afterward- I mean that's what I've been reading in Revelation for the past 15 years

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Originally Posted by spyderglass

But does it not say in the bible that there are many antichrists?
Who is to say the church hasn't saved us from them-
But when the church is outnumbered by the world they wouldn't be able to-
Isn't it a pre-requisite for the antichrist to come to power before Christ's return?
There will be the battle of Armageddon- Babylon is defeated and Christ returns afterward- I mean thats what I've been reading in Revelation for the past 15 years

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It does indeed.

2 John 1:6-7 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it. For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Note of obedience that follows that warning.

1 John 1:8-9 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.


It is not the church that save anyone... Christ is the Saviour of the World. Listen...

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.


1 John2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would [no doubt] have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

1 John 2:28-29 And now, little children, abide in Him; that, when He shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before Him at his coming. If ye know that He is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of Him.

There are many scripture verses that tell us satan will come first falsely proclaiming to be the Lamb. Revelation 12:12 thr.. Revelation 13:1 thr 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number [is] Six hundred threescore [and] six.

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Originally Posted by Galveston1

If the Apostle Paul was not describing the rapture, then what was he talking about? He even expected himself to be alive (he said "we" who remain).
II Th 2:7
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
(KJV)

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The Mystery or Secret

Revelation 14:5 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

Revelation 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Matthew 13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

Matthew 13:27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? Whence then hath it tares?

Matthew 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?

Matthew 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Matthew 13:35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open My mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

If you teach the rapture, you will take the souls of people from what Christ has told of in parables. Christ is the Saviour, The ONLY SAVIOUR, and He wants His children to hear His voice, not man made religious movements.

I do not know if people will see and hear Truth, only God can reveal what He has elected. Yet I do know if you believe, and call upon Him to answer, He will answer.

A child of God is like Mary, who will stay within the wings of God's protection, hearing and obeying His Will

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Originally Posted by spyderglass

But does it not say in the bible that there are many antichrists?
Who is to say the church hasn't saved us from them-
But when the church is outnumbered by the world they wouldn't be able to-
Isn't it a pre-requisite for the antichrist to come to power before Christ's return?
There will be the battle of Armageddon- Babylon is defeated and Christ returns afterward- I mean thats what I've been reading in Revelation for the past 15 years

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Yes, The Antichrist must come to power before Jesus returns. The rapture is when the resurrected and changed saints are called up to Him in the air, as Paul teaches. There is this scripture too:
Jude 1:14-15
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
(KJV)

How can the Lord bring this multitude of saints WITH Him unless they have previously been called up to Him?

I am convinced that the rapture will be the signal for the final week of Daniel's prophecy to start. At that time, everyone will have a God given time table of events.

I believe there has been much misunderstanding about the teaching of the tares. I believe Jesus taught about things up to the very end, when He will turn all things back to the Father. I believe the parable of the tares is a Milleninum prophecy. The Kingdom of Jesus Christ will be world wide, BUT the requirements for salvation will be the same as it is now, faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ. Not everyone in the Kingdom will be saved. They will live right, because there will be no way to escape punishment for crime. But there will come that time when Satan is loosed "for a little season" and then there will be the final rebellion, and the binding of the tares to be burned.

Do you think Mary is the sun clothed woman in chapter 12? Why or why not?

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Originally Posted by Galveston1

Jude 1:14-15
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
(KJV)

How can the Lord bring this multitude of saints WITH Him unless they have previously been called up to Him?

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These saints are refer: as the holy ones (angels)

Deuteronomy 33:2 And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them.

Psalms 68:17 The chariots of God are twenty thousand, even thousands of angels: the Lord [is] among them, as in Sinai, in the holy place.

Other refer as to what the angels do in scripture.. each leads to Jude1:14 saints Acts 7:53 Gal 3:19 Hab 2:2

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Originally Posted by Galveston1

Do you think Mary is the sun clothed woman in chapter 12? Why or why not?

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No it is not Mary.. Chapter 12 of Revelation offers the longest period of time written in one chapter then any other chapter of the bible. It is what I would call an[ inserted ] refer that God has done to help us understand the beginning first age through the present age of salvation.

Revelation 21:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

1. The great wonder in heaven is a "sign"
2. The woman is (mother Israel) or a "believer"
3. The sun, moon, star, is the zodiac that will offer signs to the believer (signs foretold of in Genesis)

Revelation 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

The believer being born here on earth of woman

Revelation 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

1. another sign
2. a red dragon is a deceiver, satan
3. again with signs when satan

Understand on earth there is "Good" and "bad" and that is a signs offered from heaven.

________________________________________

Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Revelation 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Understand on earth there is Good and bad.. and watch for signs foretold of in scripture.

Jeremiah 24:2 One basket had very good figs, even like the figs that are first ripe: and the other basket had very naughty figs, which could not be eaten, they were so bad.

Leaving people to have Free Will .. Choice .. As children of God in obedience or as bad in evil

1Thes 4:17-18
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
(KJV)

I posted this before, but I don't think you addressed it. If believers are here through the Great Tribulation until Jesus sets His foot on Mt Olivet, then why would they be caught up in the air? Do you believe in the rapture at any time? Pre trib, mid trib or post trib?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Galveston1

1Thes 4:17-18
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
(KJV)

I posted this before, but I don't think you addressed it. If believers are here through the Great Tribulation until Jesus sets His foot on Mt Olivet, then why would they be caught up in the air? Do you believe in the rapture at any time? Pre trib, mid trib or post trib?

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Spirit of Truth will be in all scripture ... No I do not follow man's teaching known of the rapture, because that teaching contradicts scripture.

This, the second heaven and earth age will pass away, but the Word of God never changes. That is why studying God's Word is never a waste of time.

Luke 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

These things are going to happen. Don't let the cares of this world cause these events to slip up on you.

Luke 21:35-36 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Sorry, but you are ignoring this scripture, apparently because it doesn't fit with your theology. If we are to continue this discussion further, you must address this passage.

1Thes 4:17-18
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
(KJV)

If not, then there is no point in me posting anything more here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Galveston1

Sorry, but you are ignoring this scripture, apparently because it doesn't fit with your theology. If we are to continue this discussion further, you must address this passage.

1Thes 4:17-18
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
(KJV)

If not, then there is no point in me posting anything more here.

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Excuse me, I did not know you had wanted me to explain this..

"Sleep in Jesus" is an expression not found/elsewhere..1 Cr 15:18
"dead in Christ" are spoken as with what can compare. Romans 8:10

prevent.. We will not stand in the way..

1 Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Trump .. Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

1 Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Note: Matthew 24:29-30 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

caught up .. 2Cr 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

Spiritual realm must be recognized and gathered (as all return to heaven once dead of this world to raise as Christ had raised)

1 Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

To meet.. Matthew 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.


1 Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

I hope this helped.

Well, if I understand you rightly, you do expect for believers to be caught up to meet the Lord in the air. So how do you see the sequence of events? Prophecy in general and Revelation in particular is not always easy to find the chronological order. Revelation is a series of different visions, all eventually pointing to the return of Jesus as King.

You pointed out the harvest of the "vine of the earth" cast into the winepress. This is the second harvest shown in Revelation. The visions carry through to after the Millennium, and the descent of New Jerusalem, so there are several events spaced over a lengthy period which must be carefully discerned or we will be confused.

I believe the next major event on God's calendar is the calling out of the Church. The Church age ends and the 70th week of Daniel's prophecy begins. After that, there is a timetable for everything up to the beginning of the Millennium.

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Originally Posted by Galveston1

Well, if I understand you rightly, you do expect for believers to be caught up to meet the Lord in the air. So how do you see the sequence of events? Prophecy in general and Revelation in particular is not always easy to find the chronological order. Revelation is a series of different visions, all eventually pointing to the return of Jesus as King.

You pointed out the harvest of the "vine of the earth" cast into the winepress. This is the second harvest shown in Revelation. The visions carry through to after the Millennium, and the descent of New Jerusalem, so there are several events spaced over a lengthy period of time which must be carefully discerned or we will be confused.

I believe the next major event on God's calendar is the calling out of the Church. The Church age ends and the 70th week of Daniel's prophecy begins. After that, there is a timetable for everything up to the beginning of the Millennium.

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The sequence of events I believe has always shown great love from God to His children. Hearing His message and obedience to the Father's Will is necessary for the child of God. However, the chronological order to the book of Revelation is not done, so yes it does take some depth in study, and prayer in revealing. Yet each time I read it I have found more and more order in mind.

Obedience and Watch

2 Timothy 2: 4-5 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier. And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully.

Satan will come first with powers to deceive as Revelation 13 tells us. When you see how people today look to follow anyone to bring new hope, I feel most will be easily deceive by a man(666) who will come as the angel of light. This is why Christ has foretold us not to marvel concerning this 2 Cr 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

The scripture that have been previously posted, I feel clearly shows the path to follow.
Luke 12:37-38 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them. And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.

For if you watch satan can't successLuke 12:39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.


The Millennium will be the 1000 year period after the 2nd advent when the elect will teach without the deception of satan and his followers.Revelation 20:1-3 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Time between the first ressurection (Revelation 20:6) when those who were found without the mark of the beast, shown victory over satan and his deception. These are the elect who will reign with Christ teaching. Blessed is he who takes part in the first resurrection, on such death hath no power.

After that thousand year then satan will again be loosed out of prison to deceive the nation. Revelation 20:8.

Of course satan is doomed as are any who follow him. Revelation 20:10

Followed with judgementReveleation 20:11

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Originally Posted by Galveston1

Well, if I understand you rightly, you do expect for believers to be caught up to meet the Lord in the air.

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I would call caught up together as clearly meaning we change to a spiritual realm no longer needing the flesh body, and joining all in heaven with Christ. I realize most people fear the thought of their flesh body being back to dust, but we do not use the flesh body in the Kingdom of Heaven which is a spiritual realm./air/sky
Do you view the difference?

The Bible says no man knows the day or the hour.
Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
The Bible says Jesus will return when no one is expecting it.
Matthew 24:43-44
43But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
The return of the Lord for the church is imminent (could take place at any time).
1 Thessalonians 5:1-3 1But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
Therefore we need to live our lives as if the Lord were returning tonight.

Sndbay, we do not have much disagreement. Mainly on 2 points, when the believers are caught up to meet Jesus and maybe about what kind of bodies we will have. The glorified body is not less material than our earthly body, but will not be subject to earthly limitations. When John saw Jesus on Patmos, he saw a body, not a spirit.

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Originally Posted by Galveston1

Sndbay, we do not have much disagreement. Mainly on 2 points, when the believers are caught up to meet Jesus and maybe about what kind of bodies we will have. The glorified body is not less material than our earthly body, but will not be subject to earthly limitations. When John saw Jesus on Patmos, he saw a body, not a spirit.

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Praise God for that..

The answer to both are in scripture... review "caught up" .. I view these scripture to give the description of caught up and it's meaning.

2Cr 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

In my heart and mind, an individual only needs to realize the reality of 2 realms of existence.
1. Kingdom of Heaven
2. Earth..

1Thes 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Meaning (Nothing more then gathering the sheep into the realm of The Kingdom with Christ in Heaven) To Seize

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Originally Posted by Galveston1

When John saw Jesus on Patmos, he saw a body, not a spirit.

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>>>>?
Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
(John was in the spirit)Revelation 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

Here on earth we are of flesh...

God determined that man's body would return to dust in Genesis 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Upon the death of any flesh body here on earth returning to dust, thus the spirit/soul returns to God in heaven.
2 Corinthians 5: 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
Ecc 12:6-7 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

ashley0716,
I believe that it will be a long time before the second coming of Jesus.
One reason is that the bible tells us that He will come when we least expect it.
Right now more people expect it than ever before simply because so many ministers and millions of books are proclaiming it.
Secondly the prophesy that the third temple will be built on Temple Mount before the Messiah returns.
Yes funds are being collected now to rebuild it but the Muslims now control the temple mount and they are not about to let the temple of Yahweh to be built there.
Even after construction gets started it would be years before the temple is completed.
I'll start to believe the return to be much nearer when construction of the temple gets underway.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

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Originally Posted by arcura

ashley0716,
I believe that it will be a long time before the second coming of Jesus.
One reason is that the bible tells us that He will come when we least expect it.
Right now more people expect it than ever before simpley because so many ministers and millions of books are proclaiming it.
Secondly the prophesy that the third temple will be built on Temple Mount before the Messiah returns.
Yes funds are being collected now to rebuild it but the Muslims now control the temple mount and they are not about to let the temple of Yahweh to be built there.
Even after construction gets started it would be years before the temple is completed.
I'll start to believe the return to be much nearer when construction of the temple gets underway.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

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Fred this thread concerning rapture was discouraged after scripture had proven it to be false teaching. Through each posting it has been determined that we are told to be watchman. The second coming of Christ is after satan comes first to deceive us fore told by Jesus, Himself in II Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Ezekiel 3: 17 Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me.

What you have offered as your choice concerning The Lord's Day should be under a different thread. And if somehow a temple is being built before Christ returns, I suspect it is being built for satan, the son of perdition. Satan will stand proclaiming to be the Lamb with great power and signs
II Thessalonians 2:9 [Even Him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the [abomination of desolation], spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

Mark 13:14 But when ye shall see the [abomination of desolation,] spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

This showing one day that some people did not believe in truth of scripture as the Word of God.

Remember: Truth... Watch

Mark 13:33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
Mark 13:34 [For the Son of man is] as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.

Mark 13:37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

sndbay,
Yes watch and pray is necessary.
But also keep in mind that there will be JUST one return of the Messiah and it will be when the world LEAST expects it.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

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Originally Posted by arcura

sndbay,
Yes watch and pray is necessary.
But also keep in mind that there will be JUST one return of the Messiah and it will be when the world LEAST expects it.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

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My take on that is this. Does ANYONE expect Jesus to return TODAY?? I think not.
Where I think I disagree with Sndbay is that I believe Jesus will CALL His Church out without ever touching Earth. Then He will actually RETURN to Mt Olivet at the end of the Great Tribulation, (Day of the Lord). That clears up some seeming contridictions in what Paul wrote to the Thessalonians.

Galveston1,
I believe that Christ's return will be as the bible says; that is that the whole world will see it.
Modern day TV will cover the event.
Keep watch on the news channels after the new temple is built and the shofar of God is blown as is done on the day of atonement.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Galveston1

My take on that is this. Does ANYONE expect Jesus to return TODAY??? I think not.
Where I think I disagree with Sndbay is that I believe Jesus will CALL His Church out without ever touching Earth. Then He will actually RETURN to Mt Olivet at the end of the Great Tribulation, (Day of the Lord). That clears up some seeming contridictions in what Paul wrote to the Thessalonians.

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"The Lord's Day"

Continue to listen and watch... Note: 2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

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Revelation 20:2-3 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

sndbay ,
I eagerly await the time when Satan will be bound in hell and no longer can tempt us.
Peace and kindness,
Fred