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"Lean not on thine own understanding", Prov. 3: 5. What does this mean but do not think for yourselves ? If we didn't lean on our own understanding we wouldn't have made all the progress we have, automobiles, air travel, space flight, modern medicine, the internet. We'd all still be in the dark ages if we didn't lean on our own understanding. If we didn't lean on our own understanding we wouldn't have these computers that we all find so useful that you all apparently like to use.
The whole Proverb is the following, and the exact English words used do depend on which translation of the Bible that you use. But basically, the meaning is the same. "Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding."Quote:
Originally Posted by deist
If you post only half of the Proverb, as you have done, rather than posting the whole thing, and also without considering the whole Proverb and the context surrounding it, then it might cause a person to want to interpret that it means something other than that which are concerns of faith and salvation, such as you have. The Proverb has nothing to do with the material things of this world that you mention.
Please see the following site for more information.
Proverbs Chapter 3
The following is a quote from that same site.
Quote:
Proverbs 3:5 “Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.” This is now the third time “heart” has been mentioned in this chapter. Head faith is not a saving faith, but a heart belief is, (Rom. 10:9-10), for it is a trust in the Lord; i.e. a dependence upon Him to save. “He guards against his recommendation of 'good understanding' in verse 4 being perverted into a ground for self-reliance,” [Faussett]. This is to be a total trust “with all thine heart.” Divided hearts are faulty in their faith toward God, (Hosea 10:2). Hence, David prayed for his heart to be united to fear the Lord, (Ps. 86:11-12). This, however, does not apply solely to salvation, for many heresies have been brought in because men tried to reason out doctrinal truth—leaning unto their own wisdom—instead of simply believing God's Word in all that it says.
Heart & mind in the bible is often interchangeable, for example, Prov. 23: 7. In fact, the Hebrew word (leb) translated heart in 3:5 can be translated as mind according to James Strong. The word nephesh translated heart in 23: 7 can also be translated as mind according to Strong. This coupled with "understanding" in 3: 5 (Heb. Biynah, meaning knowledge, wisdom) shows that the context is talking about the mind, & by extension the thinking process. Trust in the Lord with all thy mind (thy thinking), & lean not on thine own understanding (knowledge). In other words, don't think for yourself, don't trust your own knowledge. This is a formula for brainwashing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clough
That's nice. So... what is your point, please?
Think for yourself, don't let a single book do all your thinking for you. Question, reason, don't take anything on pure faith.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clough
Again, that's nice! Thank you for clarification as to what your point is and revealing more as to what you are about here.Quote:
Originally Posted by deist
I am very well-read, and I certainly do think for myself. Thank you!
Also, I take exception to you being so assuming and presumptuous as to what I or anyone else, for that matter, needs. If you don't mind my saying, I think that you need to take a look at yourself before pointing your finger at others with your opinions.
deist,
I'm not a big fan of organized religion either but I don't go on the attack to bait others. You sound like a bittter person that needs to overcome something. Currently you're no better that the JW that go door to door trying to convert and we all know how annoying that is.
You're doing the same thing I'm doing, trying to reason with these people. I read all your posts, & I don't see what you're doing any different from me.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
You say this as if no one did use reason or question other things. There are other choices out there besides Christianity, which means there are reasons Christans believe what they do. Just as you have reasons you don't. Come on deist, think about it! How is the way you came about your belief any different than mine?Quote:
Originally Posted by deist
The only way to find God/Truth is to seek Him out. Therefore you aren't just taking things as they are. You are seeking it, and through God you will find it. We are incapable of understanding all that is God, but He gives us what we need to know until we are of perfect mind. It is because of the Spirit that you gain true understanding of God's Word not because of your mind alone. I know this for fact. I thought I knew things before I was saved, but after I became saved and studied with the Spirit in me I found out real quick that I knew nothing. You gain an understanding that you never could have on your own. Hence "lean not on thine own understanding."
Besides this verse is about understanding spiritually. The progress you spoke of is by worldly understanding.
Deist, you have to consider that the Old Testament was was written from a mind set of almost total ignorance and illiteracy compared to the world of knowledge we have today(medicine, techonology, everything). Greeks, the pagans, had the beginnings of knowledge and education... math, philosophy, political science...
Religious teaching is how some of the people consoled themselves, and they used GodAlmighty as a repository of all knowledge not revealed... it is like how some people console themselves today by saying that everything happens for a reason. It is reassuring to the person to think that a benevolent force is in charge. Having a comfortable and satisfying place to rest from the suffering and demands of life. :):):)
We do have to give humankind the credit for all the discoveries and advancements that have changed the world primarily in the last 150 years. It's truly amazing! :):):)
Trusting in God has nothing to do with not thinking for yourself. Lean not on your on understanding means you must put your faith in God, not in yourself , that you acknowledge God, put him first and he will keep you on the right path.
If God did not want us to use our brains, He would not have given us one. He wants us to put Him first, don't rely so much on our own strength that we forget it all comes from Him and leave Him out of our lives completely.
Of course if you don't believe, this means nothing to you and I can't imagine why you would ask to begin with, except maybe to try and bait people into arguments with you.
Who or what church offended you so deeply that you hate Christians and what we stand for?Quote:
Originally Posted by deist
I agree with everything you said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Choux
It seems to me, if you don't believe, if you think it's foolish then that is your right. Why then does other's belief bother you so much?
I find it comical when people spend so much time downing Christianity. It means it's on their mind an awful lot. I don't spend anytime thinking about Atheist. I don't argue with them or even have discussions with them unless they approach me.
If you believe "to each his own" then leave Christians alone.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Deist,
I'm not a big fan of organized religion either but I don't go on the attack to bait others. You sound like a bittter person that needs to overcome something. Currently you're no better that the JW that go door to door trying to convert and we all know how annoying that is.
NeedKarma calls it like he sees it on a case-by-case basis, really on whatever subject might be the concern. I don't see where, in his statement above in this particular thread, especially "I'm not a big fan of organized religion either but I don't go on the attack to bait others." has anything to do with reasoning with anybody else on this particular thread, other than you.Quote:
Originally Posted by deist
Have you heard of the christian reconstructionists ? They have infiltrated politics, government, & the far right. Their agenda is to turn America into a totalitarian theocracy where all the moral laws of the Old Testament will be the only rule of law, including the death penalty for homosexuals, adulterers, unruly children, & idolaters (they consider even other christians idolaters who are not reconstructionist). They are backed by many evangelical churches in America. So I do this is as my own little attempt in my own way to fight against the reconstructionists. As I said they are backed by evangelical churches, & such pastors as D. James Kennedy & Jerry Falwell (who even though they're dead now they still have many followers). Most christians in America are evangelical, so for all I know every christian on here is a part of the reconstructionist movement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Homegirl 50
For more insight on what deist says please watch "The Power of Nightmares". A great BBC documentary available here: Power of Nightmares - Google Video
I am Christian and not part of this movement. Don't assume.Quote:
Originally Posted by deist
Quote:
Originally Posted by deist
Basically, it admonishes us to turn to God for guidance and direction in our lives in order to be truly successful. Man was not created with the ability to rule over himself or to direct his own way in life successfully apart from God. Jeremiah 10:23 states that very clearly. Man was created with a spiritual need, a need to worship, and a need to be led by his Creator. Since the rebellion in Eden, man is born with imperfection and sinful tendencies, meaning that his inclination with his own understanding is towards wrong decisions. By making use of God's "guidebook" for us, the Bible, we can make the proper decisions in life that will make us truly happy and will help our relationship with God to grow and deepen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by deist
Your responses make you sound like a paranoid, conspirarcy theorist. Is this true?
Your statement "Most christians in America are evangelical, so for all I know every christian on here is a part of the reconstructionist movement" is in my opinion not accurate and is not a proved fact but again another paranoia. You are so WAY off base by every bit of this response that I question why I am even typing a response to this now...
But I'm doing that.. right now. I call the shots in my life, I'm directing my life and I'm successful at it.Quote:
Originally Posted by silentrascal
That can't be since a few billion people on this planet have no need for your god and they run their lives just fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by silentrascal
I've been doing that for 30 years, without a book.Quote:
Originally Posted by silentrascal
Quote:
Originally Posted by silentrascal
Although your response is well said and addresses the question; Deist doesn't want an answer Deist wants to get Christians riled up so we loose sight of things. He/She sole intention is to create chaos and attempt to discredit anything and everything Christian and/or biblical (just look at his posts and responses).
Caution to all believers: Be perserverant with the content of your responses but do not get baited!
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Originally Posted by NeedKarma
No, you're not successful, nor are the "few billion people" who have no need for God. Just the way it goes, jack.
Ok, I'll bite. Prove to me I am not successful. Also define your version of a successful life.Quote:
Originally Posted by silentrascal
(Yawn)... forget it, you're not worth the time. Let me spare you from having to type out your sure 10-year-old-ish response "You won't respond because you can't". Sure, whatever you say.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
I hope you don't have kids.
Back at you.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Got two great ones, thanks for caring. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by silentrascal
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Well happy day.
for all I know every christian on here is a part of the reconstructionist movement.[/Quote:
Originally Posted by deist
You are assuming that all Christains feel this way, and they don't. IF you have a problem with some Christains then address those who you have the problem with, but don't assume that all Christians fit your negeative view of some. Your trying to bait them into arguments looks like foolishness to those who are not a part of the segment of people you have a problem with.
I think everyone should just ignore Diest because he is just out to Convert everyone to his Diestic religion. But as I have seen, he is more of an atheist or something than a diest because he was arguing against me when I was trying to prove that saying there is no god is an irrational statement. You would think a diest would support that argument distpite differences on which god we feel is sovereign. He said something like "I believe there is a god but i dont "know" if there is a god..." he went on about science and evolution blah blan blah. So diest is just confused he doesn't know who he is or what he believes. I think he has just formed a new religion called THE Confusion Diestic Athiestic Agnostic Evolutionistic Evangelistic Religion the C.S.A.A.E.E for short. You are confused buddy stop attacking the Christian beliefes and stick to your own... People who spend the whole day trying to attack other people's religion are just in secure about their own.
I don't care what you or anyone says you sanctimonious hypocrite, you do not KNOW that there is a God.Quote:
Originally Posted by tatertot
Common sense would dictate that there is a Creator, and this Creator is God Almighty. A close examination of the planet, of what we know of the universe, of the minute details that allows us to live and breathe is ample evidence to KNOW that there is an intelligence behind it all. It's absurd to think otherwise, that everything just sort of happened by chance.Quote:
Originally Posted by deist
I believe in God because of those arguments in one form or another, but there could be another explanation of how the universe began that didn't involve a deity. I BELIEVE in God, that doesn't mean there is one. I also believe in evolutionary science. It didn't make me an atheist.Quote:
Originally Posted by silentrascal
Diest, you can KNOW God exists. I KNOW God exists. Knowing and fact/undeniable evidence doesn't always have to go hand in hand. I used this example in response to you in another post... I know when I have a headache, but I can't prove it for a fact when I have one. Just because I can't prove it to you doesn't mean my head doesn't hurt nor does it mean I don't know when I have one. So, I may cannot prove God's existence to be fact, but that doesn't mean He doesn't exist nor that we can't KNOW He does exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by deist
There is a young new theory that mathematicians & quantum phyicists are looking into, that the big bang that formed our universe was caused by a collision with another universe that exists along side ours in a higher dimension, & that this has been happening over & over again forever. Right now it's just a theory & it may never be proven, but there is always the chance this is the correct theory. That could explain existence without a Creator if ever proven true. But I doubt it will ever be proven true. I believe the standard big bang theory.Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonlitWaves
Whether you want to believe it or not, it does change the fact that I KNOW beyond a shadow of a doubt there is a God... the one true God the almighty God who sent his son Jesus who is just as much God as He is to die on the cross for your sins and mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by deist
OK, so why are you so angry? Do you want everyone to believe as you do? Can you not accept that there are those of us who are firm believers, and if so how does that affect what you believe?Quote:
Originally Posted by deist
Can you prove Jesus is the Christ without using the bible ? No. That's because the bible isn't backed by any independent contemporary historical testimony. The bible is pure hearsay, second hand information, delivered through a so-called prophet who claimed it was the word of God. If God doesn't directly communicate with you, then it is not revelation. It is hearsay, & hearsay is not generally admissible in court. Find some Confirmed secular historical source contemporary with Jesus & see if they recount Jesus' miracles or resurrection.Quote:
Originally Posted by tatertot
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Originally Posted by deist
That has to be one of the most stupidest things I've ever read in here... so far.
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