I have learned that Jesus is God's son but I have also seen where people talk about God and Jesus as if they were the same person. Does it depend on the religion?
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I have learned that Jesus is God's son but I have also seen where people talk about God and Jesus as if they were the same person. Does it depend on the religion?
This have been discussed here: https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/christ...god-22727.html
And here: https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/christ...god-12885.html
And here: https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/christ...her-35984.html
John 1:1-4Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Priv
1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
NKJV
I think that depends on the religion.
Some religion say that God doesn't have a son or any partner and he is all alone and ONE. And say that Jesus (peace be upon him) is his prophet and messenger only and nothing else. Muslims say this
Chirstians say that he is God's son
And Jews... what do they say ? I forgot?
Why don't we look at what God said:Quote:
Originally Posted by mix786
Proverb 30:4
Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? Who hath gathered the wind in his fists? Who hath bound the waters in a garment? Who hath established all the ends of the earth? What [is] his name, and what [is] his son's name, if thou canst tell?
KJV
And what did Jesus Himself say?
John 10:34
Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
KJV
I have nothing more to say on this...
Did Jesus obtain the same status as God when he died? When a person prays to God is he also praying to Jesus and vice versa. Or is it like the Catholics where there is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit? Also TJ3, I am a little confused about your answer.
Jesus was God was eternity to eternity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Priv
Mic 5:2
2 "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
Though you are little among the thousands of Judah,
Yet out of you shall come forth to Me
The One to be Ruler in Israel,
Whose goings forth are from of old,
From everlasting."
NKJV
And shared God the father's glory in eternity past.
John 17:4-5
5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
NKJV
And Jesus is part of the trinity. There is a great deal in scripture about the trinity, three persons, one God, all equal. When Jesus came to earth as a man:
1 Tim 3:15-16
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
NKJV
He humbled Himself to be a perfect obedient man:
Phil 2:5-7
5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.
NKJV
Men are required to be obedient to God, and as such must worship and pray to Him. When Jesus came to earth as a man, to avoid sinning and to be qualified to be our sacrifice on the cross, He had to be perfect, He had to be obedient as a man.
When he died on the cross and was resurrection, He was once again exalted to His rightful place:
Phil 2:9-11
9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
NKJV
In Christianity, Christ is viewed in different ways. Some will say Jesus is God. Some will say Jesus is not God. Are you asking for a particular denominations view?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Priv
Catholics have the Trinitarian view of God. One God in three persons. The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit, all being of the one and same substance. With that understanding, one can pray to The Father as God, Jesus as God, and The Holy Spirit as God.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Priv
Though there may be some movements that call themselves Christians who deny the deity of Jesus, they are not Christian, and cannot be because they deny not just what the Bible says about Jesus, but more specifically they also deny what Jesus said about Himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wangdoodle
Within Christianity, Jesus is accepted as God.
Yes!
Don't forget John 1:14 which identifies who the word is. "And the word (which was with God & was God) became flesh, and dwelled among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten (son, cf. John 3:16) of the Father, full of grace and truth".Verses 1 & 2 only state that the word was with God & was God, but it is verse 14 that identifies the word which was God as Jesus.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
Hello Wangdoodle I was not asking about a certain denomination. Your second answer makes sense Thank You. I am taking a world religion class and the more I learn the more I questions I have. In one of our assignments we were asked if we think the Christian religion have become diluted because of all the denominations. Does anyone have an opinion on this. I think they have because I think of it as Buddha who did not like the answers to the questions he had so he made his own religious practices. Well with the Christian faith it is like when someone does not like the answer they were given by their church so they made a new one. Please correct me if I am wrong on this. Thanks
Lady,
I don't believe there is one christianity thread on this site where everone agrees.
Some christian religions believe that god jesus and the holy ghost are the same person however my religion believes that they are three separate people :D
Indeed. If we go back to the OT, we find many cases in which God spoke to men as The Word (dabar in Hebrew) of the Lord, and in John 1, John was making a link between these appearances of God, and Jesus' coming, telling the people in effect - "you remember when God spoke to us in the past - that was the same person of the trinity as you saw walking amongst us here in the flesh".Quote:
Originally Posted by deist
I will advice you to stick with what you know, because some people don't even know
About god they just say what they don't know. Jesus is the son of god they are not equal, but related. God sent Jesus to earth to save us from our sins, and where I also came from they say something completely different from whom Jesus is and they try to compare Islamic religion to Christianity. So we all have different point of views.
People have different point of views.Quote:
Originally Posted by mix786
Sooner or later the truth about what is what and who is who will come out very soon
How soon, and what will happen?Quote:
Originally Posted by mix786
Well when the day comes then everyone will see. When he comes down again to set everything and everyone right
But you said "very soon".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Priv
It depend on the religion
OK me saying very soon
Well I was over reacting sorry
But times look like this that he will
I don't know
Phil 2:5-8Quote:
Originally Posted by Monstertruck
5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.
NKJV
Jesus is one of three persons of the trinity and is equal to God the Father.
I am of the same opinion as you on this. Christianity has splintered of in many ways over the last 1970 years or so since Christ’s death and resurrection. I think in most cases, it is more complicated than just not liking the answer from their church. In some cases it may be a small matter, other cases it’s a major break in doctrine. There are a lot of people in the world, and you are sure to get as many interpretations of the Bible as there are people. We are all individuals after all. It is sad to me that there are such divisions. It is my prayer that we Christians could be one, truly and fully brothers and sisters in Christ.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Priv
Perhaps, LDS and JW certainly don't see Jesus and The Father as the same, however Christians believe in the Trinity, a way of seeing God as one God, but manifest as three persons, the Father (creator) the Son (Saviour) and the Holy Spirit (counsellor).Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Priv
That the Father and the Son are the same is without doubt as the Father in the Old Testament and the Son in the New Testament both say I am your salvation. If they were different they could not both be our salvation, and Jesus said unless he went (to the Father) the Holy Spirit could not come so it is apparent that the Holy Spirit is also the same God.
We can't change what people from different religions think on that.
But we will see who is right or wrong later on
NO jesus is apart of god so is the holy spirit but they aren't the sameQuote:
Originally Posted by Lady Priv
Quote:
Originally Posted by CareBearsRule
Read John 1:1.
Jesus is God.
Read Isaiah 48:16-17.
You will see that God (The Father and the Holy Spirit) send God the Son.
Read Heb 1:8
You will see that God the Father calls Jesus God.
Read Is 44:8
You will see that there is only one God.
Read Matthew 3:16-17
You will see all three persons of the trinity at the same time.
There are few doctrines so clearly taught in scripture as the trinity.
This is the best way I can explain my understanding...
As we know, God is God, the creator, He started it all.
Jesus is God in the flesh. God sent Jesus to spread His Word, and to die on the cross for our sins so that we may be saved. Jesus was with God in the beginning.
The Holy Spirit is God within us, and is our conscience of sort.. it is what we feel inside us. The Holy Spirit is the tug we feel when deciding upon asking for salvation. The Holy Spirit is what we feel when we are moved spiritually (the good feeling). Our feelings of guilt and sorrow when we commit sin is the Holy Spirit within us, working with us. Our ability to understand the Word and grow is because we have the Holy Spirit in us. The Holy Spirit is God.
Therefore I would describe it like this. God is God-a being, Jesus is God, but a separate being, The Holy Spirit is God but a separate being. They are separate, but They are all God.
All I Got to say about the Trinity is... It's 3 but still 1.
Or to put it in layman terms. Water has 3 states but it all is still H2O. Gas, Liquid & Solid! 3 states but the same!
According to the Bible, Jesus and God are absolutely NOT the same. The Bible makes it crystal clear in scriptures such as Colossians 1:15 and Revelation 3:14 that Jesus is the very first of God's creations. Yes, Jesus had a beginning, a creation, and after him all other things came into existence through the power God bestowed upon him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Priv
Jesus' apostles knew him to not be God, but the Son of God. Even Jesus' enemies, the demon followers of Satan, knew him to be God's Son and not God himself.
The view of Jesus being God or being part of some triune God is a teaching of man that is completely unsupported by the Bible. Such a teaching dishonors both God and Jesus.
John 10:30, "I and my father are one."Quote:
Originally Posted by silentrascal
John 14:16, "And I pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever." Comforter is the Holy Spirit. God will send the Comforter so that He (God) may abide in you forever.
John 17:22, "And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:" Again, Jesus is saying He and His Father are one.
John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." The Word (Jesus) was with God in the beginning, and the Word (Jesus) is God.
1 John 5:7, "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
Granted the word "trinity" is not in the Bible. But it is clear from the scripture that all three are one (God) no matter what man chooses to call it.
Revelation 3:14 - "And to the angel of the congregation in Laodicea write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God," - Jesus is clearly established as having been created; being the very first creation of God's. A being that's created cannot at the same time BE the creator; that simply does not make sense.
John 14:28 - (Jesus speaking) - "...the Father is greater than I am." - If Jesus and the Father were one and the same, then Jesus would have just told a lie, which we know Jesus was incapable of.
Matthew 3:16, 17 (at Jesus' baptism God's actual voice was heard from heaven) - "This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved." - Was God saying that he was his own son, that he approved himself, that he sent himself? No. God the Creator was saying that he, as the superior, was approving a lesser one, his Son Jesus.
Matthew 28:18 (Jesus' speaking to his apostles) - "All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth." - If Jesus were God, wouldn't he already have this authority? It wouldn't make sense to give yourself authority you would already have. It would have to be given to you by someone superior to you, by someone above you.
As far as John 10:30 is concerned: THAT text is often cited to support the Trinity, even though no third person is mentioned there. But Jesus himself showed what he meant by his being “one” with the Father. At John 17:21, 22, he prayed to God that his disciples “may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, . . . that they may be one just as we are one.” Was Jesus praying that all his disciples would become a single entity? No, obviously Jesus was praying that they would be united in thought and purpose, as he and God were.
No, the word trinity is not found in the Bible, and neither is the idea even mentioned or supported. The Bible is very clear that God and Jesus are two separate and distinct individuals. Almighty God is the creator of all things, including His Son, Jesus.
Hey rascal, why are you posting these on this thread when arguments were just refuted on this trhead:
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/christ...od-139408.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by silentrascal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
Considering YOU were the one refuted, why not try help others to come out from the veil of ignorance you clothe yourself in?
I am surprised that you would even dare to make such a statement. You could not even attempt to refute my last post. I also noticed that you failed to even comment on my prior post in this thread:Quote:
Originally Posted by silentrascal
Ead John 1:1.
Jesus is God.
Read Isaiah 48:16-17.
You will see that God (The Father and the Holy Spirit) send God the Son.
Read Heb 1:8
You will see that God the Father calls Jesus God.
Read Is 44:8
You will see that there is only one God.
Read Matthew 3:16-17
You will see all three persons of the trinity at the same time.
There are few doctrines so clearly taught in scripture as the trinity.
Lastly, I just refuted your claim about blood transfusions in that last thread, and once again you had no rebuttal.
Some times in discussions like this, there is a break down in seeing one another's points of view. Clearly you reject Jesus as God; however siting verses that show the humanity of Jesus does not contradict the Hypostatic Union of Jesus. So they are in vein. Especially when there is evidence of Jesus' divine nature.Quote:
Originally Posted by silentrascal
This is the hypostatic union. Jesus Christ, one Person, fully God and fully man. Jesus is both fully human and fully divine. There is no mixture or dilution of either nature. He is one united Person, forever. Jesus Christ, took on a human nature, yet remained fully God at the same time. Jesus always had been God, but at the incarnation Jesus took on human flesh. He became a human being. Jesus' two natures, human and divine, are inseparable. Jesus will forever be fully God and fully human, two distinct natures in one Person. Jesus' humanity and divinity are not mixed, but are united without loss of separate identity. Jesus sometimes operated with the limitations of humanity and other times in the power as God. In both, Jesus' actions were from His one Person. Jesus had two natures, but only one person.
With this understanding of the nature of Jesus as God and man, you can see how verses that speak to the human nature of Jesus and verses that speak to the divine nature of Jesus do not conflict.
I know you will reject this definition, but at least I hope you can understand what it is you are arguing against.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wangdoodle
Do you even understand the utter ridiculousness of what you just said? The teaching of the trinity is completely against the Bible. It is a blasphemous, God-dishonoring teaching that insults both God himself and his (separate and subordinate) Son, Jesus Christ. The scriptures clearly teach that Jesus himself had a beginning and was created by God. Colossians 1:15 and Revelation 3:14 state that in no uncertain terms, and so, it completely shoots down everything you said, which already started with the wrong understanding when you said "Jesus Christ, fully God and fully man". Very simply, a created being is never equal to his creator. A creation of God is never equal to God himself. The very logical conclusion then, when considering what the Bible actually states, is that Jesus never was God and he is NOT God. Jesus was created and had a heavenly, prehuman existence as a spirit creature for countless ages before he willingly gave up that position and became a perfect (and fully human) man. After his death, God resurrected him back to his spirit life in the heavens where he remained at God's right hand until he was appointed, by God, as the king of God's heavenly kingdom, soon to take action against this Satanic world in which we lie.
The conflict with the belief in the trinity is the false assumption from the start that the Bible would support such a notion. This is why trinitarians will twist and contort scriptures to try and fit in with that original false assumption.
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