"Ok, so why send people who dont believe to hell then, why not just end their existence? Do you understand this point - without the threat of hell (the stick) you (religious people) have to work harder at selling heaven (the carrot)."

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. -- John 3:16

Now, what does "perish" mean?

It means the opposite of "life".

Dead as a doorknob.

I hope this gives you comfort.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Hello Angry Christians

---

Very funny, NK. It's always enlightening when an atheist teaches us about our faith, speaking of the love and forgiveness we should have for others - while mocking us with every breath.

His point was that the 'love and forgiveness' is apparently absent in the many nasty emails he has received from good christians.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

His point was that the 'love and forgiveness' is apparently absent in the many nasty emails he has received from good christians.

---

I get the point, NK, maybe some day skeptics such as this will get it, too.

Get what?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

His point was that the 'love and forgiveness' is apparently absent in the many nasty emails he has received from good christians.

---

Whether christians like it or not! God is a jeolus God, he is slow to anger but that doesn't mean he doesn't get angry. He loves us all, but that doesn't mean he doesn't Judge.
Am afraid to see this, but it indeed is the basis of christianity... the fundie christians are the one who are on the right! Look at paul, not even paul, look at Jesus himself! He always told the pharisee and scribes to their faces of what he's God's will was, he never went through all sorts of angles to make his point! Jesus did not come to change the old testament but to enforce it! God's word is everlasting, it never changes. The new and old are supposed to be equally important! IMO!

God's judgment is just. What does just mean? It means if you abide by his will, he rewards... if you go against it... he condemns! People keep on saying love and forgivness! Indeed God forgives, but above all... remember this, forgivness only counts for the one who accepts it. Hope y'all get this. I may act with love and forgivness towards my brother and friend, but if he doesn't accept it or acknowlege it... he is judged by his own actions! He condems himself... This is the ultimate meaning of free will :)

"Judgment is self attained, Nothing is pre-set, via free will we unwind our fate"

This is how "I" think the end will come. God only lays out the sentence.. IMO

Nigel,
Who are you responding to? Just posting for the sake of it?

Is their a problem here?

Am responding to whoever's quote is put in!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SpaceRatt

"Ok, so why send people who dont believe to hell then, why not just end their existence? Do you understand this point - without the threat of hell (the stick) you (religious people) have to work harder at selling heaven (the carrot)."

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. -- John 3:16

Now, what does "perish" mean?

It means the opposite of "life".

Dead as a doorknob.

I hope this gives you comfort.

---

I'll take it this is directed at me :)

You actually haven't answered my question have you? Do I assume that I, as a non-believer, am now to be spared your hell if I am wrong or not?

I bet not one of the christians here looked at the site I provided in the original question that started this thread (www.godvsthebible.com), because they are averse to questioning. If they would look at the site they might learn a few things about their bible, like how it doesn't know anything about the cosmos, or botony (sp?), or nature, or the nature of reality, & other such things. It is entirely wrong on matters of science. Take the earth; the bible many times refers to the four corners of the earth, in Isaiah 40:22 it refers to the "circle" (Heb. Chuwg) of the earth, in Dan. 4:11 is reference to a dream in which is a tree so high that it can be seen from all over earth, & in Matt. 4:8 it says Satan took Jesus into an exceedingly high mountain, so high that all the kingdoms of the earth could be seen from it. These instances taken together show that the bible writers believed in a flat earth. "Four corners" intimates a flat earth. The Hebrew word chuwg used in Isa. 40:22 does not refer to a globe, a three dimensional round object, but a "circle", a one dimensional flat object. Circles are flat. Nowhere in the American Heritage dictionary or in Strong's Hebrew dictionary does circle refer to a globe. In Daniel's vision (Dan. 4:11), & Matthew's account of Jesus' temptation (Matt. 4:8) the only way the whole world could see such a tree, or the only way Jesus could see all the kingdoms of the earth from the high mountain, would be if the earth were flat. You cannot see things on the other side of a globe, no matter how high a mountain be, not even from space. So the writers of the bible thought the earth a flat circle, just like all other peoples back then. If the christians would look at the site I provided they would learn many more things like this. Don't be averse. Check out the site & learn just how unscientific the bible is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by deist

I bet not one of the christians here looked at the site I provided in the original question that started this thread (www.godvsthebible.com), because they are averse to questioning.

---

Not true, but there is nothing there that I have not seen many times before. I have in the past taken time to refute the majority of these from time to time, but rarely do so any more for one reason - that is that I often see people expecting Christians to take the time to validate what they believe - and I agree wholeheartedly with that message. Those who have heard me speak know that I encourage Christians to test everything, including what they are taught.

But what gets me is that these same people who go after Christians for not accepting the challenge typically fail to do so themselves. To date, not one person who has brought forward these so-called contradictions or problems in the Bible has done anything from my observation but copy and paste the questions or the links from an internet site. Discernment is appropriate for all.

Rather than just copying and pasting these, one should take the time to objectively study the claims and see if they hold up. After all, what is the objective? To attack Christianity right or wrong, or to discover the truth wherever it may lead. I can honestly say that my objective is to accept truth wherever it may lead.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tj3

Not true, but there is nothing there that I have not seen many times before. I have in the past taken time to refute the majority of these from time to time, but rarely do so any more for one reason - that is that I often see people expecting Christians to take the time to validate what they believe - and I agree wholeheartedly with that message. Those who have heard me speak know that I encourage Christians to test everything, including what they are taught.

But what gets me is that these same people who go after Christians for not accepting the challenge typically fail to do so themselves. To date, not one person who has brought forward these so-called contradictions or problems in the Bible has done anything from my observation but copy and paste the questions or the links from an internet site. Discernment is appropriate for all.

Rather than just copying and pasting these, one should take the time to objectively study the claims and see if they hold up. Afterall, what is the objective? To attack Christianity right or wrong, or to discover the truth wherever it may lead. I can honestly say that my objective is to accept truth wherever it may lead.

---

So, what do you have to say about what I said about Daniel's vision of the tree, Isaiah's use of chuwg (circle), & Matthew's mention of the high mountain ? I'd be interested in your response to that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by deist

So, what do you have to say about what I said about Daniel's vision of the tree, Isaiah's use of chuwg (circle), & Matthew's mention of the high mountain ? I'd be interested in your response to that.

---

So, what do you have to say about what I said about Daniel's vision of the tree, Isaiah's use of chuwg (circle), & Matthew's mention of the high mountain ? I'd be interested in your response to that.

Dan 4:11; This is explained in details in Daniel 4:19-27. See why I say that people just copy and paste these off internet without even checking the context?

Is 40:22: When you look at a ball, what do you see? A circle. And do you know that the word chuwg can also mean a "vault", which would describe our spherical atmosphere. We also see this described in Job.

Job 26:10
10 He drew a circular horizon on the face of the waters,
At the boundary of light and darkness.
NKJV

Matt 4:8: Are you aware that Satan is Spirit and that Jesus is God? This means that it is not necessary to see the whole world from the mountain and it does not say that they saw the whole world due to the height of the mountain. But this passage is a good proof of the deity of Jesus.

Matt 4:7
7 Jesus said to him, "It is written again, 'You shall not tempt the LORD your God.' "
NKJV

Jesus is once again stating that He is God.

Now stop copying and pasting things blindly from internet and take the time to accept your own challenge - get into the Bible and find out what it really says for yourself. I've been through these weak attempts to attack the Bible far too many time to waste my time when those asking don't feel that it is worth their time to check out the context of the claims first.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tj3

So, what do you have to say about what I said about Daniel's vision of the tree, Isaiah's use of chuwg (circle), & Matthew's mention of the high mountain ? I'd be interested in your response to that.

Dan 4:11; This is explained in details in Daniel 4:19-27. See why I say that people just copy and paste these off internet without even checking the context?

Is 40:22: When you look at a ball, what do you see? A circle. And do you know that the word chuwg can also mean a "vault", which would describe our spherical atmosphere. We also see this described in Job.

Job 26:10
10 He drew a circular horizon on the face of the waters,
At the boundary of light and darkness.
NKJV

Matt 4:8: Are you aware that Satan is Spirit and that Jesus is God? This means that it is not necessary to see the whole world from the mountain and it does not say that they saw the whole world due to the height of the mountain. But this passage is a good proof of the deity of Jesus.

Matt 4:7
7 Jesus said to him, "It is written again, 'You shall not tempt the LORD your God.' "
NKJV

Jesus is once again stating that He is God.

Now stop copying and pasting things blindly from internet and take the time to accept your own challenge - get into the Bible and find out what it really says for yourself. I've been through these weak attempts to attack the Bible far too many time to waste my time when those asking don't feel that it is worth their time to check out the context of the claims first.

---

When I was a bible believing christian I spent 27 years studying the bible, I know what it says. Also a vault or a firmament is not a circle, it is a half circle, a hemisphere, a dome.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by deist

When I was a bible believing christian I spent 27 years studying the bible, I know what it says. Also a vault or a firmament is not a circle, it is a half circle, a hemisphere, a dome.

---

If you spent 27 years studying it, then surely you know the answers to some of these claims.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by deist

When I was a bible believing christian I spent 27 years studying the bible, I know what it says. Also a vault or a firmament is not a circle, it is a half circle, a hemisphere, a dome.

---

Get this... the bible rarely gives us a glimpse in the scientific nature of things! I wholeheartedly agree, the bible was written by men... men inspired by the spirit of God.

Ave been a christian for 23 years! And at no time do I claim that I know every single thing it says! That's A FAT LIE! Don't say you know the bible... show you know the bible, PLEASE!