The right path leads to the "realization" of God. Jesus at the time was telling people, "Ye are Gods", and,

" Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you."

I go by what Jesus himself said and not what preacher Bob says Jesus said. There is a big, big difference...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 0EntitY

The right path leads to the "realization" of God. Jesus at the time was telling people, "Ye are Gods", and,

" Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you."

I go by what Jesus himself said and not what preacher Bob says Jesus said. There is a big, big difference...

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In John 10:34 the people that he was referring to were unsaved (John 10:26), and were unjust judges because His references to Psalm 82. He was therefore speaking judgment against those who tried to elevate themselves to be gods, and who felt themselves worthy to judge Him.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello:

So, a nice Jewish boy like me ain't gonna make it, huh? If we're so wrong, how come you worship one of us. Jesus wasn't a Christian. He was a Jew - a practising Jew. The Last Supper was a Sedar.

excon

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You are correct, it was a Sedar.

I assume you read the Torah?

But I also assume you have not done much study of the New Testament? I would not expect the average Jew to do so.

John 5:39
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
(KJV)
Here we have the words of Jesus telling us that the Torah points to Him. There are many things in the OT that are types of Christ. (Eg. The brass serpent put up by Moses)

Back to the Sedar:

Matt 26:26-28
26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
(KJV)

For the first time ever, the meaning of this meal was revealed.

I do not claim to understand exactly how the Sedar is done, but Jesus revealed what the elements represented, to wit, His Body and His Blood.

Maybe there is a Rabbi out there who can further enlighten us on this subject.

Ex, I hope you will consider this as from a friend rather than as an adversary. (As I usually am.):)

Gaverton,
Through the last supper (Seder) of Jesus he became the sacrificial Lamb of God.
Thus He brought the Passover of death to all believers.
He institutes the New Covenant of the Passover from the old.
It is often referred to as the Christian Passover.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Gaverton,
Through the last supper (Seder) of Jesus he became the sacrificial Lamb of God.
Thus He brought the Passover of death to all believers.
He institutes the New Covenant of the Passover from the old.
It is often referred to as the Christian Passover.
:)Peace and kindness,:)
Fred

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tj3

In John 10:34 the people that he was referring to were unsaved (John 10:26), and were unjust judges because His references to Psalm 82. He was therefore speaking judgment against those who tried to elevate themselves to be gods, and who felt themselves worthy to judge Him.

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Not accurate!

... and what is your explanation?

adam7gur,
I'm going to be gone for a few days.
Keep up the good work.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Nohelp4u
Scripture goes like that..
John 10:33 The Jews answered him: For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy, and because thou, being man, makest thyself God.
(They accused Him that being a man He made Himself equal to God)
34 Jesus answered them: Is it not written in your law, I said: You are gods?
(Who is God calling gods?)
35 If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came, and the Scripture cannot be broken:
(and not whom God sanctified because Jesus seperates those two possibilities by saying)...
36 of him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, say you: Thou blasphemest; because I said: I am the Son of God?
Tom said that those people tried to elevate themselves to be gods but this is not accurate because those people accused Jesus of doing so, as a blasphemer and therefore wanted to kill Him because that was the punishment of a blasphemer.It is not logicall then for them to elevate themselves to gods while knowing that this would make them blasphemers!

I think original posters do intend to be asking for a Christian Biblical answer but then people want to give their point of view and it turns into debate.
I don't see why they don't take debates and start them on the members discussion boards rather than arguing on the OP. Many of them go so way off topic to boot.
It happens on the relationship boards as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by homesell

I was originally going to send this as a private message but decided that maybe everyone would benefit.
Contrary to most of the posters, this is NOT a discussion board or a chatroom. It is the "ask me help desk" where people that have questions about Christianity are supposed to get answers - about christianity or what the Bible has to say about their specific questions.
If they want to chat or have discussions, there are plenty of other places to go like "politically correct answers" or "what non-believers think" "ask those that don't have a clue" or everybodys favorite, "All I know I learned from watching Mtv"
If you are a reader of the posts, all these totally different answers under the name of Christianity can only confuse. If you don't believe the Bible and believe what Jesus said, please don't answer in the Christianity answers section, feel free to ask any question you like, and save the discussion for the discussion groups and chat rooms.
I know this post itself is a violation but it absolutely had to be said.

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I agree Homesell and your absolutely right.

It had to be said because many people get lost in this whole debate when it should not even be debated or chat about.

This should not have been a private message and Homesell you did the right thing by bringing this to everybodies attention.

homesell and Jesushelper, I so much agree to your point of view regarding this thread, which has gone off topic a few times (lately happening in the 'tomatoe' thread), the very informative thread regarding our Joe and a few others.

This particular thread is going around in circles !

You are all great guys, don't get me wrong but this is frustrating, tuning in and thinking there is something new on a particular thread and finding out we are talking about something entirely differrent yet again !

Now I am sort of off topic

Kindest all,

Tick

Quote:

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Originally Posted by adam7gur

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tj3

In John 10:34 the people that he was referring to were unsaved (John 10:26), and were unjust judges because His references to Psalm 82. He was therefore speaking judgment against those who tried to elevate themselves to be gods, and who felt themselves worthy to judge Him.

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Not accurate!

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Adam,

Your saying so does not make it so. I would challenge anyone to check out what scripture actually say in this regard. Check out John 1:26 through to John 10:35. Check out Psalms 82. It may not be what some people want to hear, but it is the word of God.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by adam7gur

Nohelp4u
Scripture goes like that..
John 10:33 The Jews answered him: For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy, and because thou, being man, makest thyself God.
(They accused Him that being a man He made Himself equal to God)
34 Jesus answered them: Is it not written in your law, I said: You are gods?
(Who is God calling gods?)
35 If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came, and the Scripture cannot be broken:
(and not whom God sanctified because Jesus seperates those two possibilities by saying)...
36 of him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, say you: Thou blasphemest; because I said: I am the Son of God?
Tom said that those people tried to elevate themselves to be gods but this is not accurate because those people accused Jesus of doing so, as a blasphemer and therefore wanted to kill Him because that was the punishment of a blasphemer.It is not logicall then for them to elevate themselves to gods while knowing that this would make them blasphemers!

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Adam,

Clearly they failed to understand that they were blaspheming or otherwise they would not be condemning Jesus, who was God in the flesh for calling Himself the Son of God.

Jesus was pointing out the irony of them calling themselves gods, while condemning Him for calling Himself the Son of God. Jesus referred to Psalm 82 which is a condemnation of unjust judges, who scripture calls "gods" in this reference. Jesus uses this reference because these men (gods) are also unjust judges. Judging Him falsely.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tj3

Adam,

Clearly they failed to understand that they were blaspheming or otherwise they would not be condemning Jesus, who was God in the flesh for calling Himself the Son of God.

Jesus was pointing out the irony of them calling themselves gods, while condemning Him for calling Himself the Son of God. Jesus referred to Psalm 82 which is a condemnation of unjust judges, who scripture calls "gods" in this reference. Jesus uses this reference because these men (gods) are also unjust judges. judging Him falsely.

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I have a question then!
Why is God called God of gods and what kind of gods are those, 'cause surely those gods are not false gods 'cause God is not a God of idols!

I would say that those 'gods' refer to the people or things that people call as gods, to show them that He is the supreme being.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Unknown008

I would say that those 'gods' refer to the people or things that people call as gods, to show them that He is the supreme being.

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I wouldn't say that because God has nothing in common with those gods.It is like you are saying that He is the God of things that we call ''gods''!
He is the God of Truth, He is not the God of idols or something like that!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by adam7gur

I have a question then!
Why is God called God of gods and what kind of gods are those, 'cause surely those gods are not false gods 'cause God is not a God of idols!

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He is God over everything, whether they be false gods, leaders, those who think themselves high and mighty or anything and anyone else.

If you say that the other gods are not false gods, then you effectively become a polytheist, believing in many gods. Scripture is clear that there are no other gods:

Isa 44:8
You are My witnesses.
Is there a God besides Me?
Indeed there is no other Rock;
NKJV

Psalms 82:1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

Psalms 82:2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.

Psalms 82:3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.

Psalms 82:4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.

Psalms 82:5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.

Psalms 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Psalms 82:7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

Psalms 82:8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

In other words God says I made you gods , because He says I have said but you shall die like men because you do not judge well.
People choosing to die like men because they do not judge well, does not mean that God did not make us gods!
He did made us but we chose differently!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tj3

He is God over everything, whether they be false gods, leaders, those who think themselves high and mighty or anything and anyone else.

If you say that the other gods are not false gods, then you effectively become a polytheist, believing in many gods. Scripture is clear that there are no other gods:

Isa 44:8
You are My witnesses.
Is there a God besides Me?
Indeed there is no other Rock;
NKJV

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Mark 12:27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.
False gods,leaders who think themselves high and mighty or anything and anyone else, are dead , but God is God of the living!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tj3

If you say that the other gods are not false gods, then you effectively become a polytheist, believing in many gods. Scripture is clear that there are no other gods:

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So I suppose then I am a polytheist also if I say that the Son of God is also God 'cause that would make two of them!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by adam7gur

So I suppose then I am a polytheist also if I say that the Son of God is also God 'cause that would make two of them!

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No, no, no. You're now going through a different subject; the Holy Trinity.

Jesus is God,
The Holy Spirit is God,
The Father is God,

But, Jesus is not the Father, nor the Holy Spirit,
The Father is not Jesus nor the Holy Spirit
The Holy Spirit is not Jesus nor the Father.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by adam7gur

So I suppose then I am a polytheist also if I say that the Son of God is also God 'cause that would make two of them!

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If you were to deny the trinity it would. That is why the doctrine of the trinity as described in scripture is important.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by adam7gur

Mark 12:27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.
False gods,leaders who think themselves high and mighty or anything and anyone else, are dead , but God is God of the living!

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Read the context.

Mark 12:18-27
18 Then some Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to Him; and they asked Him, saying: 19 "Teacher, Moses wrote to us that if a man's brother dies, and leaves his wife behind, and leaves no children, his brother should take his wife and raise up offspring for his brother. 20 Now there were seven brothers. The first took a wife; and dying, he left no offspring. 21 And the second took her, and he died; nor did he leave any offspring. And the third likewise. 22 So the seven had her and left no offspring. Last of all the woman died also. 23 Therefore, in the resurrection, when they rise, whose wife will she be? For all seven had her as wife." 24 Jesus answered and said to them, "Are you not therefore mistaken, because you do not know the Scriptures nor the power of God? 25 For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. 26 But concerning the dead, that they rise, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the burning bush passage, how God spoke to him, saying, 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? 27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living. You are therefore greatly mistaken."
NKJV

This is a debate that He had with the Sadduccees who denied that there was any resurrection of the dead. It has nothing to do with whether there are or not false gods.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by adam7gur

Mark 12:27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.
False gods,leaders who think themselves high and mighty or anything and anyone else, are dead , but God is God of the living!

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I think Jesus said that because 'God of the Dead' sounds rather scary and it is sort of 'God likes death' which is false. God of course want us to be alive.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by adam7gur

In other words God says I made you gods , because He says I have said but you shall die like men because you do not judge well.

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Seems to me that you altered / added some words there to make it appear that God made them to be gods. It is dangerous to alter God's word. God does not even imply that He exaclted them to be gods, nor indeed anyone.

People choosing to die like men because they do not judge well, does not mean that God did not make us gods!
He did made us but we chose differently![/QUOTE]

According to Strong's Hebrew dictionary, those gods (plural) can be applied to magistrates. (Rulers, people in charge.)

That is about the only way you can make sense of this.

Jesus said in effect, You are in great authority, but you will die like any other men.

And since you accept this definition applied to you (gods) why do you say I blaspheme if I claim to the Son of God?

You made your point, I made mine, end of story!After all this is not the subject here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by homesell

But Adam,
that's the whole point here. It doesn't matter if someone gets answers, we are only here to discuss endlessly on this discussion board about trivialities that don't really matter. It almost gives our lives meaning.

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Since you are not looking for answers homesell why do you keep posting questions?

Homesell,

Well first this is not a discussion board, this is the Christian area for a question and answer.

If you want mindless chat, go find a area for that.

I have issued you a waring for argumements, deleted some of your posts and closed this thread.

Please correct your purpose for asking questions on here if you wish to continue to do so on the question boards.