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Originally Posted by savedsinner7

Can you see electricity? How do you know it exists? Can you see the wind? How do you know it exists? Can you see God? How do you know He does not exist?

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Electricity: I can see it in sparks. I can feel it when I touch it. I can measure it with a meter.

Wind: I can see it during a dust storm. I can feel it when it blows on me. I can measure it.

God: I can not see him. I can not feel him. I can not smell him. I can not hear him. I can not even taste him. I can not use a tool to measure him. In all experiment involving prayer it has no effect on the person being prayed for.

So unlike electricity and wind, god doesn't exist by your own standards but lets keep going just for fun.

Invisible, intangible, silent, odorless, tasteless Unicorn that only answers prayer if they are going to come true anyways: I can not see him. I can not feel him. I can not smell him. I can not hear him. I can not even taste him. I can not use a tool to measure him. In all experiment involving prayer it has no effect on the person being prayed for.

Your god = The unicorn

Tj3 just pwned someone! LOL... OMGosh! Hahaha

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Originally Posted by nigel5

Tj3 just pwned someone! LOL.....OMGosh! hahaha

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Christians bragging about pwning people... sad. Horrible reflection on the teachings; especially considering it didn't happen.

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Originally Posted by nigel5

Tj3 just pwned someone! LOL.....OMGosh! hahaha

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What does pwned mean ?

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Originally Posted by deist

What does pwned mean ?

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Kiddie talk: Pwn - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Kiddie talk: Pwn - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Ah. Thank you.

I didn't really think he made a good argument either it was just long.

It all goes back to that extraordinary claims call for extraordinary evidence.

I am much more likely to believe 3 people that tell me a man robbed a bank, than the 6 people who saw the same robbery and said it was monster. Why is that, I don't know the credibility of any of these 9 people but I dismissed 6 of their eye witness accounts right from the get go without even looking looking more into it. Why because I've heard of a man robbing a bank but there isn't any evidence to support monsters even existing much less robbing a bank. If those 6 people came back with more evidence than just what they say, I would consider it but right now monsters don't rob banks. People need to think this way otherwise they can get over whelmed by a few determined liars.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Christians bragging about pwning people...sad. Horrible reflection on the teachings; especially considering it didn't happen.

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I totally agree with you NK (didn't know that could happen did ya), I didn't know what "pwning" meant but it clearly is immature.

Nigel5, come on, don't represent yourself as a Christian and then resort to such immature behavior. You should be a representative to the world of fairness and compassion, don't degrade yourself to this level!!

God is not invisible or silent. He speaks but only to those who are listening. I can feel His presence. I can see the beauty He created for me to experience. I can know that what He says to me He will do. My God is real. I feel pity for those who do not yet know Him. I can see the effects of prayer on my life and for those who I've prayed for.
Mark 11:24
I tell you, you can pray for anything, and if you believe that you’ve received it, it will be yours.
Mark 11:23-25 (in Context) Mark 11 (Whole Chapter)
John 17:20
“I am praying not only for these disciples but also for all who will ever believe in me through their message.
John 17:19-21 (in Context) John 17 (Whole Chapter) Exodus 3:14
God replied to Moses, “I Am Who I Am. Say this to the people of Israel: I Am has sent me to you.”
Exodus 3:13-15 (in Context) Exodus 3 (Whole Chapter)
God does not need to explain the unexplainable to us. Our minds cannot comprehend the wonders of who He is.

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Originally Posted by michealb

Electricity: I can see it in sparks. I can feel it when I touch it. I can measure it with a meter.

Wind: I can see it during a dust storm. I can feel it when it blows on me. I can measure it.

God: I can not see him. I can not feel him. I can not smell him. I can not hear him. I can not even taste him. I can not use a tool to measure him. In all experiment involving prayer it has no effect on the person being prayed for.

So unlike electricity and wind, god doesn't exist by your own standards but lets keep going just for fun.

Invisible, intangible, silent, odorless, tasteless Unicorn that only answers prayer if they are going to come true anyways: I can not see him. I can not feel him. I can not smell him. I can not hear him. I can not even taste him. I can not use a tool to measure him. In all experiment involving prayer it has no effect on the person being prayed for.

Your god = The unicorn

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Originally Posted by savedsinner7

[F]God is not invisible or silent. He speaks but only to those who are listening. I can feel His presence. I can see the beauty He created for me to experience. I can know that what He says to me He will do. My God is real. I feel pity for those who do not yet know Him. I can see the effects of prayer on my life and for those who I've prayed for.

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You can disagree with me all day long it's not going to change that you likened your god to the way you can't see electricity or wind and I showed you that there are ways that everyone can measure electricity and wind but your god has no more proof than a unicorn.

Oh and I know, I'm doomed to burn in hell for all eternity when the wrath of your god strikes me down. Don't worry about my soul though I've had a personal talk with Zeus and he says that I don't need to worry about the christian god. See?
Zeus is not invisible or silent. Zeus speaks but only to those who are listening. I can feel Zeus' presence. I can see the beauty Zeus created for me to experience. I can know that what Zeus says to me Zeus will do. My Zeus is real. I feel pity for those who do not yet know Zeus. I can see the effects of prayer to Zeus on my life and for those who I've prayed for.
*Edit* Forgot to say prove to me that Zeus doesn't exist bet you can't.

You misunderstood my questions, they are to get one to admit that even though we cannot see the actual electricity or wind, we know they are there by the effects they have on our lives. Just the same with God. But, he WILL NOT be found by those who are searching to further their own deceived agenda's and ideas. He WILL BE found by those who call on Him with a pure heart.

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Originally Posted by michealb

You can disagree with me all day long it's not going to change that you likened your god to the way you can't see electricity or wind and I showed you that there are ways that everyone can measure electricity and wind but your god has no more proof than a unicorn.

Oh and I know, I'm doomed to burn in hell for all eternity when the wrath of your god strikes me down. Don't worry about my soul though I've had a personal talk with Zeus and he says that I'm don't need to worry about the christian god. See?
Zeus is not invisible or silent. Zeus speaks but only to those who are listening. I can feel Zeus' presence. I can see the beauty Zeus created for me to experience. I can know that what Zeus says to me Zeus will do. My Zeus is real. I feel pity for those who do not yet know Zeus. I can see the effects of prayer to Zeus on my life and for those who I've prayed for.
*Edit* Forgot to say prove to me that Zeus doesn't exist bet you can't.

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But we CAN see electricity... in the winter, when the air is dry, I can build up a static charge and put my finger near metal and SEE the spark it creates. When there is a thunderstorm, I can look in the sky and SEE lightning. We can also see the wind - the trees move, my hair moves, my shirt, leaves skitter across the ground... it's all there. I think that's the point - anyone can see electricity or the wind, there's no prerequisite for a "pure heart" or whatever. Just working eyes. If you want to make the argument one cannot see god unless he/she is looking for him, that's fine, but you can't say electricity and wind can't be seen, when they clearly can.

Let's face it. Christians are just brainwashed.

But we can see electricity and the wind. Your god on the other hand has no measurable qualities. Which is fine for you take your god from people that lived a 2000 years ago who didn't understand electricity or the wind. Just admit that god is a matter of faith and you will ignore what would be otherwise be good scientific data if it doesn't correspond to what your faith believes.

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Originally Posted by michealb

You can disagree with me all day long it's not going to change that you likened your god to the way you can't see electricity or wind and I showed you that there are ways that everyone can measure electricity and wind but your god has no more proof than a unicorn.

Oh and I know, I'm doomed to burn in hell for all eternity when the wrath of your god strikes me down. Don't worry about my soul though I've had a personal talk with Zeus and he says that I don't need to worry about the christian god. See?
Zeus is not invisible or silent. Zeus speaks but only to those who are listening. I can feel Zeus' presence. I can see the beauty Zeus created for me to experience. I can know that what Zeus says to me Zeus will do. My Zeus is real. I feel pity for those who do not yet know Zeus. I can see the effects of prayer to Zeus on my life and for those who I've prayed for.
*Edit* Forgot to say prove to me that Zeus doesn't exist bet you can't.

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The zeus analogy does not work.

Are there billions of zeus followers?

Have there been in the past and the present martyrs for Zeus?

Is there a BZ and AZ on dates or are trying to change it to BCE and CE which still acknowledges Jesus?

Are there people arguing over the existence of zeus?

Are there people blaming or defending Zeus?

Has Zeus inspired a literary work that is a perennial bestseller, translated in multiple languages, whose authenticity is questioned, and that people live their lives by?

Are there billion selling movies about Zeus?

You can ask the same thing about Your unicorn, purple dragon examples.








Grace and Peace

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Originally Posted by michealb

But we can see electricity and the wind. Your god on the other hand has no measurable qualities. Which is fine for you take your god from people that lived a 2000 years ago who didn't understand electricity or the wind. Just admit that god is a matter of faith and you will ignore what would be otherwise be good scientific data if it doesn't correspond to what your faith believes.

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You can't see electricity nor wind. Static and lightning are the effects of electricity. Your hair blowing, trees bending, etc. are effects of the wind.
Of course the belief in God is a matter of faith. Who denied it?
We could say the same to you. You ignore what could otherwise be good evidence of God's existence because science can't explain it. It's a matter of one's individual opinion.
Most of us don't ignore science. God's explanation makes more sense to us than science's explainations. Just like science's explainations makes more sense to you than God's

Are there billions of zeus followers?
At one point in time there were millions but we both know just because a lot of people believe something is right doesn't make it so, slavery for example.
Have there been in the past and the present martyrs for Zeus?
Past yes and present yes
I Still Worship Zeus - National Film Network
Is there a BZ and AZ on dates or are trying to change it to BCE and CE which still acknowledges Jesus?
This just proves that christians push their believes on people who don't want them. What's your point?
Are there people arguing over the existence of zeus?
Isn't that what were doing right now?
Are there people blaming or defending Zeus?
During greek history yes. It was the will of Zeus or some other god depending on what was going on.
Has Zeus inspired a literary work that is a perennial bestseller, translated in multiple languages, whose authenticity is questioned, and that people live their lives by?
How do you prove inspired work? Zeus really wasn't into books but there are are some really nice temples that were built and people did try to live there lives to gain Zeus' favor.
Are there billion selling movies about Zeus?
Movies about Zeus? I didn't realize that movies were our basis for reality but I'll bite. Zeus not so much but I don't really remember that many movies that star god either. You must want to compare movies that star the sons of gods. In your example Jesus in mine Hercules. I think Hercules has done a few movies. I looked it up IMDB. There are 70 partial title matches for Hercules and 214 for Jesus. Considering Hercules reached his peak worshipping popularity much before movies were even thought of, I'd have to say advantage Hercules(son of Zeus) for staying power.








Grace and Peace[/QUOTE]

Isaiah 45:21
Consult together, argue your case.Get together and decide what to say.Who made these things known so long ago?What idol ever told you they would happen?Was it not I, the Lord?For there is no other God but me,a righteous God and Savior.There is none but me.
Romans 9:20
No, don't say that. Who are you, a mere human being, to argue with God? Should the thing that was created say to the one who created it, “Why have you made me like this?”
Matthew 11:25
[ Jesus' Prayer of Thanksgiving ] At that time Jesus prayed this prayer: “O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, thank you for hiding these things from those who think themselves wise and clever, and for revealing them to the childlike.
2 Timothy 2:24
A servant of the Lord must not quarrel but must be kind to everyone, be able to teach, and be patient with difficult people.


Bowing out of this argument. Thanks all. Kel

Michael b:

I'm curious as to the last reported martyr for Zeus?

Chinese Christian Martyr, Jiang, copied from VOM for example.

BC and AD just goes to show the influence of Christianity in the western world of which Greece is a part of.

As to movies: The Passion - to name one. There are others like, Chronicles of Narnia which is Christian based.

Here's more t think about:
Are there charitible organizations that are Zeus based? Analogous to Christian organizations like The Salvation Army, St Jude's, faith based hospitals etc...



Everything about Zeus is in the past, and of little influence today.
And the only reason I thought of Zeus, or unicorns is because you brought it up.






Grace and Peace

Zeus was cooler than Yahweh. Hercules was cooler than Jesus.

inthebox,
You have no idea of the power and influence the Flying Spagetti Monster has over you. May his noodly appendage touch you in ways that make you happy.

NK

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Originally Posted by inthebox

Michael b:

I'm curious as to the last reported martyr for Zeus?

Chinese Christian Martyr, Jiang, copied from VOM for example.

BC and AD just goes to show the influence of Christianity in the western world of which Greece is a part of.

As to movies: The Passion - to name one. There are others like, Chronicles of Narnia which is Christian based.

Here's more t think about:
Are there charitible organizations that are Zeus based? Analogous to Christian organizations like The Salvation Army, St Jude's, faith based hospitals etc....

Everything about Zeus is in the past, and of little influence today.
And the only reason I thought of Zeus, or unicorns is because you brought it up.

Grace and Peace

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The point of the Zeus example is that he was once a powerful god that if you would have denied his existence to his followers then they would have fought just as hard as christians do today many harder. They had just as much proof for their god as you do yours and theirs was around first. His followers would go on and on about how you just have to have faith in Zeus but every christian dismisses them without a second thought. Why? If it is simply because christianity is more popular that doesn't sound like a good reason to me.

Popularity is not the reason.

Truth, purpose, meaning, acceptance, forgiveness, and love are just some of the reasons.




Grace and Peace

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Originally Posted by michealb

The point of the Zeus example is that he was once a powerful god that if you would have denied his existence to his followers then they would have fought just as hard as christians do today many harder. They had just as much proof for their god as you do yours and theirs was around first. His followers would go on and on about how you just have to have faith in Zeus but every christian dismisses them without a second thought. Why? If it is simply because christianity is more popular that doesn't sound like a good reason to me.

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1)If they did then they would have been as big as judaism, islam or christianity. 2

2)christianity wasn't so popular during the time greeks believed in zeus or wateva.

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Originally Posted by jillianleab

But we CAN see electricity.... in the winter, when the air is dry, I can build up a static charge and put my finger near metal and SEE the spark it creates. When there is a thunderstorm, I can look in the sky and SEE lightning. We can also see the wind - the trees move, my hair moves, my shirt, leaves skitter across the ground... it's all there. I think that's the point - anyone can see electricity or the wind, there's no prerequisite for a "pure heart" or whatever. Just working eyes. If you want to make the argument one cannot see god unless he/she is looking for him, that's fine, but you can't say electricity and wind can't be seen, when they clearly can.

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WRONG! Electricity is caused by differences in charge you cannot see that. What you see is light energy caused by the reaction of those charged molecules with the atmosphere's oxygen that burns.

You cannot see the wind, what you see is the objects the wind moves whether it be dust, trees or anything else.

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Originally Posted by deist

Let's face it. Christians are just brainwashed.

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Lets face it if you had an education you're practically brain washed.

Prefect

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Originally Posted by nigel5

WRONG! Electricity is caused by differences in charge you cannot see that. What you see is light energy caused by the reaction of those charged molecules with the atmosphere's oxygen that burns.

You cannot see the wind, what you see is the objects the wind moves whether it be dust, trees or anything else.

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Ever heard of a microscope?

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Lets face it if you had an education you're practically brain washed.

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So education is a bad thing? Oh, and you might want to further your own brain washing education... your spelling is lacking. :)

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Originally Posted by nigel5

WRONG! Electricity is caused by differences in charge you cannot see that. What you see is light energy caused by the reaction of those charged molecules with the atmosphere's oxygen that burns.

You cannot see the wind, what you see is the objects the wind moves whether it be dust, trees or anything else.

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Well technically you can't see anything but photons. So you can't see your computer just the photons bouncing off it or that it emits. That isn't how we think of vision as working in our everyday lives though. It's still makes me think the example is meant to overwhelm the logic of a 5 year old. A reasonable adult just thinks it's not a good analogy. I wouldn't even think that someone that believes in god would think that it would be a good analogy since we understand electricity and wind very well yet god you all say we are not suppose to understand.

Also
Definitions of wind on the Web:
air moving (sometimes with considerable force) from an area of high pressure to an area of low pressure; "trees bent under the fierce winds...

Smoke /smoʊk/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[smohk] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, smoked, smok·ing.
–noun 1. the visible vapor and gases given off by a burning or smoldering substance, esp. the gray, brown, or blackish mixture of gases and suspended carbon particles resulting from the combustion of wood, peat, coal, or other organic matter.

So smoke is a visible gas. Air is a gas. So if the air is smokey it is still air. So if the smokey air is moving that is wind and that can be seen just as much as anything else we see in our daily lives.

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Originally Posted by nigel5

Lets face it if you had an education you're practicaly brain washed.

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So you admit you are uneducated huh.

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Originally Posted by deist

So you admit you are uneducated huh.

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I admit am brain washed... LOL

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Originally Posted by michealb

Well technically you can't see anything but photons. So you can't see your computer just the photons bouncing off of it or that it emits. That isn't how we think of vision as working in our everyday lives though. It's still makes me think the example is meant to overwhelm the logic of a 5 year old. A reasonable adult just thinks it's not a good analogy. I wouldn't even think that someone that believes in god would think that it would be a good analogy since we understand electricity and wind very well yet god you all say we are not suppose to understand.

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Yes we only see light(photons) bouncing of objects.. and yes the definition of "sight" is ability to detect reflected light. And yes its not a good analogy.. but the argument was in that line of thought and I went along with it. In any case the naked eye cannot see electricity and air

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Originally Posted by nigel5

Yes we only see light(photons) bouncing of objects..and yes the definition of "sight" is ability to detect reflected light. And yes its not a gud analogy..but the argument was in that line of thought and i went along with it. In any case the naked eye cannot see electricity and air

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We have other very effective senses, and touch can easily detect wind and electricity almost directly.

Question closed.

And a) as a sidenote and b) one of the reasons it's now closed: it was not a real question to begin with.

PS: deist, this is a public warning. Review the FAQ.