Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maggie 3

Wondergirl, 1John 3:6 "Whoever abides in Him does not sin.Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him"
Jesus said we believers who abide in Him, draw near to Him, listen to His word and obey them would bear much fruit, and that glorifies the Father.
Fruitful believers have the power to avoid sin. [John 8:16]
1John 3:20 "For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our
heart, and know all things."
We believers want more than anything else, to please God and obey Him
we have tender consciences that can condemn, but The Spirit
Himself bears witness-- that we are children of God. [Rom. 8:16]

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So now please tell me in your own words what that means.

WG,

You're still not getting it.

Believers do not depend on their own righteousness, but upon Christ's righteousness.

AND:

You seem to confuse "church member" with "Christian".

Church members may sin on a regular basis, Christians do not.

I'm not saying that a Christian will NEVER sin, but that will not be their normal life style, and their sins will be mostly in the area of attitutes.

A Christian will not live in adultry or fornicaton because they know it to be sin. They will not steal or kill. They will not be habitual liars, because they know that Satan is the father of lies.

Yes, a Christian may slip up and sin, but he will nor REMAIN in that state unless he has completely given up his faith.

Hope this clarifies.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by galveston

WG,

You're still not getting it.

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Oh, yes. I get it.

If we believers sin, we are not written off the list or kicked out of the family, for we have an advocate, a defense attorney in Jesus Christ.
He paid the full price for sin, of the whole world. Old sin, the now sin,
and sin to come. Jesus took care of all sin at the cross, He did not
leave any sin out except one. The blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, that
is the repeated refusal to listen to the Spirit speaking to one's heart, saying, "You need a Savior, Jesus. Jesus paid the price for your sin.
Accept His free gift of salvation".
Jesus is our defense attorney, He is our propitiation for our sin that
schould have been hurled on us. Look at it this way. I broke the law
driving eighty miles an hour in a 40 mile an hour zone. An officer of the law
takes me into a courtroom before a judge. I am afraid and weak, but I
am greatly relieved to discover the judge is my Father, my dad, He
knows me. But to my surprise I hear His voice say "Guilty" and fined
five thousand dollars or five years in jail ". How can this be I said
you are my dad, He answer's "in this courtroom I am your judge.
I have no money so the cuffs are put on my wrists to be hauled to jail.
Justice must be done" he said. The judge stands up, takes off his robe,
and leaves the bench to stand beside me and pays my fine.
Justice is served because the price of sin of speeding was paid--
not by me but by my father who paid a debt I was unable to pay.
That is exactly what happened when Jesus Christ became the
propitiation, the payment for my sin.

I hope this helps you understand what I am saying, Wondergirl.

Love and Blessings, Maggie 3

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maggie 3

If we believers sin, we are not written off the list or kicked out of the family, for we have an advocate, a defense attorney in Jesus Christ.

Justice is served because the price of sin of speeding was paid--
not by me but by my father who paid a debt I was unable to pay. That is exactly what happened when Jesus Christ became the
propitiation, the payment for my sin.

I hope this helps you understand what I am saying, Wondergirl.

Love and Blessings, Maggie 3

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Yes, all that is true and wonderful, but does not answer my question, Do Christians still continue to sin every day?

Gal said, "Church members may sin on a regular basis, Christians do not."

Wondergirl, as a child of God I take the Word of God as truth in my life.
And in Rom. 8:1, I am told there is now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus. He is saying there is no condemnation or sin in me
in His eyes. People that are not a part of God's family may not see it that way but truth is truth if God is saying it. You can take it or leave it.
The cross was a big deal for the chrildern of God, His Son Jesus died
for my sin, all my sin, was paid for,for all times, at the cross. In Gods eyes I do not sin, Jesus blood covers my sins. I love the Lord with all my
heart, sole, mind and being and will serve Him and follow Him all of my
days. Rom.8:2 "For the law of the spirit of life in Chirst Jesus hath made
me free from the law of sin and death". I am free by the Spirit of Christ
Jesus, He lives in me, enabling me to fly high and overcome the law
of sin and death. Hallelujah
If a person is not a child of God, he can not understand spiritul things.

Love and Blessing, Maggie 3

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maggie 3

And in Rom. 8:1, I am told there is now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus. He is saying there is no condemnation or sin in me in His eyes.

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No condemnation is different from no sin. Sin is there, but, because of faith that struggles against it, God does not reckon sin as deserving damnation. But the sin is still there, is struggled against every day and every hour. As a well-known person once said: "Lord, I believe. Help thou mine unbelief!"

Maggie 3,
Then why are all we morals still sinners?
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Wondergirl,
Yes I do believe that even very good Christians still do sin
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arcura

Wondergirl,
Yes I do believe that even very good Christians still do sin
Peace and kindness,
Fred

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Yes, Fred. Everyone sins as long as he is a resident on this earth.

I'm wondering if this is one of the reasons opportunities for mission work fail, because the Christian puts on an air of arrogance over the non-Christian ("I no longer sin, but you do").

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Originally Posted by sndbay

Putting on the new man to follow Christ in righteousness is exampled in Luke. But before you review the parables of Luke, what we have to acknowledge is that once you have put on the new man which would be unity unto Christ, there is no double minded, or sinful nature. Everything written concerning the new creature or new man says the old passes away. That is what it meant to dead with Christ. (2 Cor 5:17 Eph 2:15 Eph 4:24 Col 3:10) Thus you leave the law or schoolmaster because the law is written in your heart (Isa 51:7), you have a good conscience toward God. Buried then in baptism able to raise as Christ did.

Reference Luke: The new!

Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

This is the old nature of man, the ones not willing to follow in righteousness. The sinful nature that does not please God. If you remain as the old man then you are a sinner Review--> (1 John 3)Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us,

Luke 5:36 And he spake also a parable unto them; No man putteth a piece of a new garment upon an old; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old.

Luke 5:37 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.

Christ set us free, we are no longer in bondage to sin. Christ is the completeness and our rest. We only need to follow HIM, and that means in HIs footsteps. This is all written and the truth sancified us.

John 17: 19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

Belieiving in Christ, and having the spirit to walk in righteousness, where Christ dwells in you. If one does not believe this, one does not believe in HIS worthinesss.
~behold the glory in Christ

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Dear sndbay, Please, you can pray for me any time! I am jealous in a good way of your zeal and your commitment to the NEW covenant creation. TY for the post.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

But that doesn't happen in this life. We never escape our sinfulness.

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Being sin full is to have no room left for holiness. To remain sin full means no repentance has taken place and our hearts are unregenerate. The WORKS, the deeds of God include repentance, and the first of the deeds of repentance is this: faith itself, and the nurture and admonition necessary for it's growth.

John 6:
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Romans 15:14
And I myself also am persuaded of you, my brethren, that ye also are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge, able also to admonish one another.

Colossians 3:16
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

Psalm 1
1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.

2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.

for the ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.

5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.

6 For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.


Psalm 131
1 Lord, my heart is not haughty, nor mine eyes lofty: neither do I exercise myself in great matters, or in things too high for me.

2 Surely I have behaved and quieted myself, as a child that is weaned of his mother: my soul is even as a weaned child.

Psalm 12
1 Help, LORD; for the godly man ceaseth; for the faithful fail from among the children of men.

2 They speak vanity every one with his neighbour: with flattering lips and with a double heart do they speak.

3 The LORD shall cut off all flattering lips, and the tongue that speaketh proud things:

4 Who have said, With our tongue will we prevail; our lips are our own: who is lord over us?

5 For the oppression of the poor, for the sighing of the needy, now will I arise, saith the LORD; I will set him in safety from him that puffeth at him.

6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

8 The wicked walk on every side, when the vilest men are exalted.


3 Let Israel hope in the LORD from henceforth and for ever.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by galveston

What you (and many others) are missing is that element in the equasion called "FAITH".

The world may discount it, but God honors it. When a human accepts the sacrifice that Jesus made (by faith), then Jesus' perfection is counted as belonging to the believer in the eyes of God.

Does that mean believers are free from all responsibility to hold to a holy standard?

Not at all.

Every part of the Law that Jesus brought into the new Covenant is binding upon the believer, and while the believe may occasionally commit a sin, he/she will NOT live a sinful life style, ie, sin every day.

The Holy Spirit will not allow it. He will convict a believer for sin immediately, and that believer will repent just as immediately. (If not, then that believer is indeed living in sin and is now in danger.)

Grace does NOT give licence to sin.

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2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Nonetheless:

Hebrews 2:2-4
2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompense of reward;

3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;


2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.


1 Thessalonians 4:
7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.

8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.

9 But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.

10 And indeed ye do it toward all the brethren which are in all Macedonia: but we beseech you, brethren, that ye increase more and more;

11 And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you;

12 That ye may walk honestly toward them that are without, and that ye may have lack of nothing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Of course a believer sins every day!!!

No, it doesn't, but we do sin -- yes, we do.

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We were conceived in sin, and we dwell in a sinning world system, but this does not excuse sin for any man or woman, especially those who claim to have the Salvation from sin and death in Jesus blood, name and Spirit. In North Americam there is a grave misunderstanding of the call of God. It IS and call to be holy and to be perfect (complete in the Spirit of God). It is a call to abandon the sins of days past. To be content to be sinful is to be completely exposed to death for the wages of sin is death. Why then is God so patiernt with us? Partly because He knows how deep the deceits of the devil are in our minds and hearts, aand partly because we have so few true teachers of the Word. Teachers are essential to equip the believing community to do the WORK of the ministry. I recently asked a man who is calling himself an apostle, "What is the work of the ministry?" and he said: "That is a good question." I didn't get a chance yet to press him on the matter, but do you know what the WORK of the ministry is, Wondergirl? I do.

It is the practice of sin verses the practice of repentance which keeps us on our toes if we will listen to the Spirit of Holiness. God is not going to ever be pleased if we excuse sin in our lives which we know to be sin. He is able to gently and kindly lead us out of ignorance, both ignorance of sin (the deceits of Satan) and ignorance of the mind of Christ (true doctrine). But where we are clearly informed by the Holy Spirit and knowledgeable about our defects, our sins and our sinful habits, we are also clearly called to do whatever is necessary to have the power of sin broken off us. This may mean leaving friends behind, and even family in extreme cases. It may mean seeking the elders for anointing with oil. It may mean leaving a job, or a neighborhood, or a city. It may mean fasting. It may mean seeking out those who are able to cast out demons. It will CERTAINLY mean fleeing youthful lusts, fornication, idolatry, envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, perverse disputings, and greed, and every WORK of the flesh.

We need to think more about what it cost Jesus to purchase our souls back from Satan and from hell.

Hebrews 12
1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Do we really love God and treasure His Kingdom? Then we ought to crave His chastening that will raise us up to life eternal.

THREAD CLOSED

People this thread is from 2007. Please check your dates before responding.