I can go on and on and on, through acidophiles, extremophiles, algae, eukaryotic cells, amphibians, reptiles, mammals... but y'all get my point ladies and gentlemen.

OH hold on am not done... lets see... oxygen. The prokrayotic cells on engulfing mitochondria, also soon got hungry again... and surprisingly, came along cells known as chloroplast! Engulfed them... and.. you guessed it.. they integrated too.

So now, the cell has a means of respiration and means by which it can manufacture food via sunlight using its chloroplast! Amazingly the byproduct of this process turned out to be oxygen.. From there on normal processes of respiration and decomposition increased the levels of oxygen in the atmosphere.
Providing a platform by which eukaryotic cells can form. Whew! So much had to happen right?? Nature sure is classy :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nigel5

1)Bacteria flagellum needs it motory action to survive....Indeed there would be a change in function....WHICH MEANS, the bacteria would be immobile!

2) Its really sad that you came to the conclusion that am an idiot and i have no clue about Evolutionary fundamentals, if you knew me personaly u'd realy be suprised! Jus saying :)

---

Your number one question explains why people come to the number 2 conclusion.

Here is the answer to number 1
The Flagellum Unspun

The reason people on the evolution side get in such a hoff about intelligent design is because it's the same thing as saying that sun revolves around the earth because you can see the sun move and you never feel the earth move. It's on the same level of intellect.

If you have evidence that disproves evolution(you don't but if you did) write a paper point to evidence and take the scientific world by storm. That is the way science works not by some guy who doesn't understand basic scientific theory spouting on the internet. If there is something you don't understand like all the questions you have been asking post it in the science forum and we will be glad to answer each of them.

I'm okay with religion if you want to say that god did it and you don't care what science says that's fine. As long as your honest about it.

Nigel - great points.

You have to wonder the ultimate "evolutionary" cell would be one that has chloroplast AND mitochondria.

Can you imagine the selective advantage!

You can either eat and get energy, or bask in the sun inhaling the co2 that is one of the byproducts of your mitochondria, and get energy that way.

Where is this cell? This organism?


One does not have to believe in ID or creationism to have questions about evolution as the explanation for life.











Grace and Peace

A second reaction, which I have heard directly after describing the relationship between the secretory apparatus and the flagellum, is the objection that the TTSS does not tell us how either it or the flagellum evolved. THIS IS CERTAINLY TRUE, although Aizawa has
Suggested that the TTSS may indeed be an evolutionary precursor of the flagellum (Aizawa 2001). Nonetheless, until we have produced a step-by-step account for the evolutionary derivation of the flagellum, one may indeed invoke the argument from ignorance for this and every other complex biochemical machine.

From post #143's link.

In other words, why should I have Faith in evolution until evolution proves to me every step by step account of how first life came from non-life and how humans and other animals came from a single ancestor?

Isn't it that the same argument from non- believers. I won't believe in a Creator until that creator proves to me every step in creation so that I can fathom and understand it myself.






Grace and Peace

[QUOTE=michealb]Your number one question explains why people come to the number 2 conclusion.

Here is the answer to number 1
The Flagellum Unspun

Hahahaha! Einstein.. what is flagellum unspun? What does the term being immobile mean? If the flagellum doesn't exist the prokaryotic cell cannot move.. period! Read the article you post and don't just post it! Hahaha...


This is what is meant by irreducable.. since it seems to me you have a problem grasping simple concepts. It means that if a single factor or element in a system is removed.. the system cannot function! Therefore the fact that evolution says mechanisms evolved gradualy is questionable accroding to behe! LOL. Go read some more!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by michealb

Your number one question explains why people come to the number 2 conclusion.

Here is the answer to number 1
The Flagellum Unspun

The reason people on the evolution side get in such a hoff about intelligent design is because it's the same thing as saying that sun revolves around the earth because you can see the sun move and you never feel the earth move. It's on the same level of intellect.

If you have evidence that disproves evolution(you don't but if you did) write a paper point to evidence and take the scientific world by storm. That is the way science works not by some guy who doesn't understand basic scientific theory spouting on the internet. If there is something you don't understand like all the questions you have been asking post it in the science forum and we will be glad to answer each of them.

I'm okay with religion if you want to say that god did it and you don't care what science says thats fine. As long as your honest about it.

---

If you understood the fundamentals of evolution yourself u'd understand the points I have written down are well known facts in the theory of evolution! Such ignorance makes me sick :(

Oh and by the way... by all means Google my questions and answer them! Since you claim to have all the facts! Hahahaha.. good luck with that!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by inthebox

In other words, why should I have Faith in evolution until evolution proves to me every step by step account of how first life came from non-life and how humans and other animals came from a single ancestor?

---

No one is asking for faith in evolution, we have evidence that fits the theory if you have a hypothesis that fits the evidence better publish it.

Evolution is not meant to explain how life came from non life. As far as I know there isn't one theory that explains this very well yet. We are working on it but we don't have one that fits all the evidence yet but that's okay we will find one someday that's what people do.

And to "in the box", thanks :) grace and peace :P

You know, ave been on this forum for a couple of days now and ave realized a trend...
Most pple think if you don't accept evolution you're either a fundie christian( which I am not ashamed of anyway) or you haven't studied evolution itself. Anyway, its all the better... makes it easier to shove arguments aside.LOL

Yes, yes... and if you have a theory and workable hypothesis as to why God doesn't exist... please please... we want to see :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by michealb

No one is asking for faith in evolution, we have evidence that fits the theory if you have a hypothesis that fits the evidence better publish it.

Evolution is not meant to explain how life came from non life. As far as I know there isn't one theory that explains this very well yet. We are working on it but we don't have one that fits all the evidence yet but thats okay we will find one someday thats what people do.

---

Fact: Evolution's basis is to explain how we, living creatures evolded from non-living material. What is evolving? Ask yourself this and come back and try again!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nigel5

If you understood the fundamentals of evolution yourself u'd understand the points I have written down are well known facts in the theory of evolution! Such ignorance makes me sick :(

---

Okay I'm at a loss. I've done lots of research and I think I have a pretty good grasp of the fundamentals of evolution and the question you have written down are question about the evolution theory not facts all most all have been answered, maybe not to your satisfaction but to the scientific communities satisfaction. I don't know what more I can tell you other than if you are so intelligent that you sound stupid as you say you are publish a paper post evidence and I'll be the first to admit I was wrong if the evidence is there.

My dear friend,
Most of what I have posted are not really questions... they are intended to use logic to draw out conclusion! I haven't just strung out a list of points from the top of my head. I have taken my statements from the evolutionary theory and how it worked. C'mon! Don't make yourself look bad.

And lastly take some classes in microbiology and biochemistry! Gosh!

Hey, nigel, quit editing your posts. I noticed you edited #152 and #155. If you have something new to say, put it in a new post, don't go back and delete what you've already written and posted. People get booted from this site for things like that...

Thanks jillian, am not that good of a typist so am bound to make mistakes here and there :)

It's OK, we're all human, but you haven't been correcting spelling. You've been changing content. That's a big no-no.

Okay, I'll avoid that... am new here so yeah, lol.

There are plenty of scientific sites out there that refute Intelligent design & Creationism. Personally I believe in a God, but I also believe in evolutionary science, there's all kinds of evidence for it out there; just look.