Could it be, that Joseph was Jesus Father???
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Could it be, that Joseph was Jesus Father???
Nope. God was Jesus' father. Mary was a virgin when she got pregnant with Jesus.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
Sorry, you are in error (Has to do with adoption- you don't want to understand). No use in trying to explain it to you. As they say, "you can't teach an old Lady knew tricks.Quote:
Could it be, that Joseph was Jesus Father???
Nope.
Why do you think King David Was a man after God's own heart, why did he love God's Law with such zeal and admiration? Since heaven and earth continue to exist, the law remains unchanged and will continue to be in effect.
We are to have a relationship With Jesus, we are to Love God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength/
It's as if we can't have a relationship with GOD, our relationship is with Jesus. Yes, I get that...Jesus is GOD ;-)
Joseph was not Jesus' natural father. Yes, Joseph "adopted" Jesus and was His earthly father.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
I have absolutely no idea what point you're trying to make.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
Look at adoption in the eyes of a Jewish family. UNDERSTANDING OUR ADOPTION. The importance of adoption “The notion that we are children of God, His own sons and daughters… is the mainspring of Christian living… Our sonship to God is the apex of Creation and the goal of redemption.”
We are to have a relationship With Jesus, we are to Love God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength/
It's as if we can't have a relationship with GOD, our relationship is with Jesus. Yes, I get that...Jesus is GOD ;-)
Then why do you even try to explain the Trinity (something you yourself can't understand- certainly can't explain it!).Quote:
Simple yes or no question? You feel the need to have them understand the Trinity, same as you 'might' understand it (why can't you let it go)?.
All they need to understand is that God loves them and forgives them because of Jesus' sacrifice on the cross.
Every time somebody tries to speak Jesus, the "Man", you continually interject- "Trinity, TRINITY, Hey guys, You can't forget the Trinity,- Jesus is not a man he is GOD!" You might want to think about this. When somebody tells you that Jesus is The Son of GOD, not God(all true...true to them), just let it go...that's understanding the Trinity (believing Jesus is "The man", the main man of God). Says something about why God had to bring Paul back home, many people would have become followers of Paul.
Not real sure where you're trying to go with this one, Walter. WG is entirely correct in her response.Quote:
Sorry, you are in error (Has to do with adoption- you don't want to understand). No use in trying to explain it to you. As they say, "you can't teach an old Lady knew tricks.
30 But the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary; you have found favor with God. 31 You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to call him Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.”
34 “How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?”
35 The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.
Joseph's linage: that of King David...Not Adam.
Adopted Son...Joseph was a father none the less.
We are to have a relationship With Jesus, we are to Love God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength/
It's as if we can't have a relationship with GOD, our relationship is with Jesus. Yes, I get that...Jesus is GOD ;-)
Then why do you even try to explain the Trinity (something you yourself can't understand- certainly can't explain it!).
Every time somebody tries to speak Jesus, the "Man", you continually interject- "Trinity, TRINITY, Hey guys, You can't forget the Trinity,- Jesus is not a man he is GOD!" You might want to think about this. When somebody tells you that Jesus is The Son of GOD, not God(all true...true to them), just let it go...that's understanding the Trinity (believing Jesus is "The man", the main man of God)
Why is this such a huge concern for you?Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
UNDERSTANDING OUR ADOPTION. The importance of adoptionQuote:
Joseph was a father none the less.
That of King David...Not Adam.Quote:
Why is this such a huge concern for you?
Why is this such a huge concern for you? Jesus Is 100% man. Get it? You won't.Quote:
Then why do you even try to explain the Trinity (something you yourself can't understand- certainly can't explain it!).
Every time somebody tries to speak Jesus, the "Man", you continually interject- "Trinity, TRINITY, Hey guys, You can't forget the Trinity,- Jesus is not a man he is GOD!" You might want to think about this. When somebody tells you that Jesus is The Son of GOD, not God(all true...true to them), just let it go...that's understanding the Trinity (believing Jesus is "The man", the main man of God)
As I said before, "Luke, a doctor, connects Jesus’ humanity all the way back to the first man, Adam."Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
The Genealogy of Jesus, Luke 3
23 Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph, the son of Heli, 24 the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Melki, the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph, 25 the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos, the son of Nahum, the son of Esli, the son of Naggai, 26 the son of Maath, the son of Mattathias, the son of Semein, the son of Josek, the son of Joda, 27 the son of Joanan, the son of Rhesa, the son of Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel, the son of Neri, 28 the son of Melki, the son of Addi, the son of Cosam, the son of Elmadam, the son of Er, 29 the son of Joshua, the son of Eliezer, the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, 30 the son of Simeon, the son of Judah, the son of Joseph, the son of Jonam, the son of Eliakim, 31 the son of Melea, the son of Menna, the son of Mattatha, the son of Nathan, the son of David, 32 the son of Jesse, the son of Obed, the son of Boaz, the son of Salmon,[4] the son of Nahshon, 33 the son of Amminadab, the son of Ram,[5]the son of Hezron, the son of Perez, the son of Judah, 34 the son of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham, the son of Terah, the son of Nahor, 35 the son of Serug, the son of Reu, the son of Peleg, the son of Eber, the son of Shelah, 36 the son of Cainan, the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem, the son of Noah, the son of Lamech, 37 the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared, the son of Mahalalel, the son of Kenan, 38 the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.
Are you saying Jesus is not God, that he was Joseph's son?Quote:
Jesus Is 100% man. Get it? You won't.
So there you have it. Jesus is 100% man, only knowing the Man Jesus...you said it.Quote:
For human understanding, He was 100% man AND 100% God when he was here on earth.
Can a person come to know Jesus, as King and savior of the World, 'the Man'? Knowing GOD, while not understanding the Trinity?
Of course!
I'd say you have the 100% God down. you're not taking into consideration the 100% man.Quote:
Every time somebody tries to speak Jesus, the "Man", you continually interject- "Trinity, TRINITY
Our fathers are reversed. God is our father just the same as Joseph was Jesus Father.Quote:
The importance of adoption
God came down to Earth, Jesus ascended into heaven. Your fallacy is the fact that you have an immediate desire to speak of Jesus the GOD, every time Jesus the Man is mentioned. There is no real need, Specially when somebody believes in Jesus as only a Man, savior King. What Forces you to understand solely on the fact that Jesus is GOD?
On earth, Jesus was 100% man and 100% God. In heaven, Jesus is 100% man and 100% God.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
That was put in, He was the son of Joseph, and It will tell you that in any translation. The importance of adoption “The notion that we are children of God, His own sons and daughters…Our sonship to God is the apex of Creation. There is meaning in Joseph being his Father, Much the same way God being our Father.Quote:
He was the son, (so it was thought,) of Joseph
UNDERSTANDING OUR ADOPTION. I'm thinking the story of Ruth (kinsman redeemer etc.) , but We don't need to go into that right now.Quote:
Why is this such a huge concern for you
200%? that's the same as saying they are both 50-50. If you can't understand that Jesus is 100% GOD while retaining 100% man at the same time. If you are able to agree (clearly not you) with somebody who believes Jesus is 100% man, Singly, you will understand the Trinity. If you don't Believe Jesus Is 100% man, (not GOD,- he became Sin) you are taking away from the Sacrifice GOD has made.Quote:
He was 100% man AND 100% God
All started when I said; He doesn't tell us to have a relationship with him, God tells us to love him. "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind." This is the first and greatest commandment. We see in "that book" that we show love for God by obeying his commands. "If you love me, you will keep my commandments.Quote:
We are to have a relationship With Jesus, but, we are to Love God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength/ It's as if we can't have a relationship with GOD (hmm, wonder why), our relationship is with Jesus. Yes, I get that...Jesus is GOD ;-)
Trying to explain something that I see, doing it on the fly is no good.
I didn't have time to go into detail right now. Maybe "later." But I don't think it will happen. You are locked into your own understanding...same as the rest of us.
waltero wrote:
[He was the son, (so it was thought,) of Joseph]
Hold on, pardner. You're gonna have to justify that statement, because there is no evidence to back it up. There are no variants in the manuscript tradition and to my knowledge, no scholar has ever questioned it.Quote:
That was put in,
Evidence, please?
Joseph didn't "adopt" anybody. There was no ceremony, no documents, no agreement, nothing. As it says, he let people assume he was Jesus' father, and that he and Mary just got a little carried away too early. It wasn't a crime, or even a shame. It was a little embarrassing, nothing more.
I really wonder where you're getting this stuff, because your sources are terrible.
Quote:
[He was the son, (so it was thought,) of Joseph]
I'm glad you asked that. I saw it myself but I guess it just didn't register enough. It's a strange comment.Quote:
Hold on, pardner. You're gonna have to justify that statement, because there is no evidence to back it up. There are no variants in the manuscript tradition and to my knowledge, no scholar has ever questioned it.
WalterO has not posted recently so I don't know if he is still active here.
[LUKE] Mary’s genealogy; not Joseph’s. And by the way, when verse 23 says that Joseph was the son of Heli, the words, ‘son of’ are not there in the Greek. They should be italicized in your Bible, unless you have the NIV, which shows that they were added by the translators, but they are not really in the Greek.
So, Jesus was born of the virgin Mary, which in this genealogy means that Jesus was the supposed son of Joseph, not biologically, but legally.
If you don't Believe Jesus Is 100% man you Diminish the Sacrifice GOD has made. Christ had to be fully human in order to die, pay for our sins, and redeem us. Jesus is Man/Jesus is God- one need not dilute the other. Example: Jesus is 100 man...Always to be followed by (somebody who lacks understanding); And...And He is 100% God. Overemphasize one over the other?
Royal lineage was always passed down through the father.Quote:
The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.”
There were some in Luke’s day who believed the salvation was only for the Jews.But here in Luke 3, the genealogy goes all the way back to Adam the father of all, rather than just back to Abraham, the father of the Jews. Jesus came for Jews and Gentiles alike (cf. Luke 2:32). We see at the end of the genealogy that in Adam, mankind had a beginning, through the creation of God. But in Jesus Christ, we have a new beginning, through the re-creation and regeneration of God.
Are both true of you? Are you related to God, not only physically, but also spiritually?
And He is 100% God. Fully man and fully God.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
Col. 2:9, For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily.
More verses listed in:
https://www.openbible.info/topics/je..._man_fully_god
(To JL, my contribution of proof passages and cherrypicking galore!)
Proof passages are not even close to being the same concept as cherry-picking. I think I understand your problem now.Quote:
(To JL, my contribution of proof passages and cherrypicking galore!)
One desperately searches for and chooses ("cherrypicks") proof passages. The two terms are not synonymous. One is a verb and one is a plural noun that has an adjective.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Yes, I totally understand your need. I lived in that world for many years.
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And He is 100%, God. Fully man and fully God.
@Wondergirl:Quote:
Aren't you missing something? The Son of man has been mentioned how many times?
You're speaking as if - GOD sacrifice Himself to Himself.
The fact that you (continually...every time "the Son of Man" is mentioned) Overemphasize one over the other...You miss the connection entirely.
@dwashbur:Quote:
He was the son, (so it was thought,) of Joseph
Luke is giving the Lineage of Mary.Quote:
Hold on, pardner. You're gonna have to justify that statement
Joseph was the legal father of Jesus. If you don't believe it, look in the book of Ruth.Quote:
Joseph didn't "adopt" anybody.
Okay. I'll bite. What am I missing?Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
Quote:
And He is 100%, God. Fully man and fully God.
@Wondergirl:Quote:
Aren't you missing something? The Son of man has been mentioned how many times?
You're speaking as if - GOD sacrifice Himself to Himself.
The fact that you (continually...every time "the Son of Man" is mentioned) Overemphasize one over the other...You miss the connection entirely.
@dwashbur:Quote:
He was the son, (so it was thought,) of Joseph
Luke is giving the Lineage of Mary.Quote:
Hold on, pardner. You're gonna have to justify that statement
Joseph was the legal father of Jesus (book of Ruth might give you insight)Quote:
Joseph didn't "adopt" anybody.
That's not what Jesus' purpose was, to sacrifice Himself to his Father. You are confused.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
You are confused.Quote:
You're speaking as if - GOD sacrifice Himself to Himself.
Do you have any ideas?Quote:
what His purpose was.
What do YOU think Jesus' purpose was? And where did He come from?Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
Is this because you have no idea? or maybe you don't like being put on the spot?Quote:
What do YOU think Jesus' purpose was? And where did He come from?
You made a statementfollowed byQuote:
And He is 100%, God. Fully man and fully God.
So you understand Jesus is God (that much is clear). Soooo where does the Son of God fit in all this?Quote:
Jesus is God only in the fact that he is the Son of God. Jesus is also the Son of man.
Jesus is the Son of God.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
Jesus is God only in the fact that he is the Son of God.
"More verses listed; man_fully_god"Quote:
And He is 100% God. Fully man and fully God.
Good, Good. You understand man_fully_God. Aren't you missing something? You still Don't understand Jesus being; fully_man. The verses you posted speak only of Jesus being God...Nothing mentioning Jesus being the Son of Man.
Yet you proclaim- "And He is 100%, God. Fully man and fully God." Can a person truly see the "Man Jesus" when habitually overemphasizing the God Factor?
Jesus -The Son of Man is worshiped as God.
Nope. Jesus is God. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit -- three Persons in one God.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
You are treating them as though they are. I don't think you understand either one. You seem to use the accusation of "cherrypicking" as an excuse to disbelieve an avalanche of evidence. Just my observation.Quote:
One desperately searches for and chooses ("cherrypicks") proof passages. The two terms are not synonymous.
Why do you think people are "desperate" in a search for proof passages?
What is your objection here, Waltero? You seem to be downplaying Christ's divinity, or perhaps suggesting that Jesus did not exist before He was conceived in Mary's womb? Not sure where you're trying to go.Quote:
Good, Good. You understand man_fully_God. Aren't you missing something? You still Don't understand Jesus being; fully_man. The verses you posted speak only of Jesus being God...Nothing mentioning Jesus being the Son of Man.
Yet you proclaim- "And He is 100%, God. Fully man and fully God." Can a person truly see the "Man Jesus" when habitually overemphasizing the God Factor?
What you've posted about Jesus sounds like the beliefs of the Jehovah's Witnesses, waltero.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
***Jesus Christ:
- Jesus Christ is a mighty being, but he is not God
- Jesus Christ is a lesser and separate spirit being
- Jesus Christ is not equal to God in power or eternity (i.e. age)
- Jesus Christ never thought of himself as God or equal to God
- Jesus Christ is the son of God
- Jesus Christ was created by Jehovah as his first creation
- So Jesus had a beginning and thus cannot not be eternal
- Jesus Christ is inferior to Jehovah, but superior to the angels
- Jesus Christ rules as part of God's heavenly kingdom
- Jesus Christ is the Messiah predicted in the Old Testament
- Jesus Christ came to earth from heaven
- When Jesus was on earth he was a perfect human being, but he was not divine in any way.***
- https://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/relig...active%20force.
I get the same impression, WG.
Earlier post.
When Jesus was asked which of all the laws of Scripture is the greatest, Christ responded with the command; "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind." This is the first and great 'commandment.' We have been separated from GOD, so how are we to have a relationship with him? We are not called to have a relationship with GOD, we are Commanded to love him with our all. We are called to have a relationship with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
WG, made a statement. Quote: "And He is 100% God. Fully man and fully God." end quote.
OK, I see that she has posted some verses regarding Jesus "fully God," why no versus showing fully man (Jesus, the Word, Jesus Our Substitute, Jesus Our Prophet, Jesus Our Priest, Jesus Our King, Jesus Son of Man)??? Speaking as though God/Jesus trumps - Man/Jesus. If you find yourself blurting out Jesus is God, every time Jesus is mentioned as - being the Son of God, I would guess you lack understanding. Jesus is the Son of God- is that incorrect?
NO matter. I will try to do my best in explaining who Jesus is to me. Jesus is all I know of God in this lifetime...Once I enter into eternal life, who knows.
Is it your concern to defend that Jesus is God? a person can lose sight that Jesus is human, that in Jesus God became a man. I understand the desire to protect Jesus’ divinity, to confess his Lordship, to ponder his glory, to recognize his victory, and to anticipate his final triumph over sin, death, and evil—this is all gospel truth. But we need to keep a fact in sight—Jesus is human, and this is as much gospel truth as the claim of his divinity.
Jesus became what He had not previously been - namely, man - without ceasing to be what He had always been - namely, God.
Making Jesus so human that we lose sight of his divinity or making him so divine that we lose sight of his humanity. God experienced ordinary human emotions. to say that God became man is to recognize that he had a human faculty of choice. He became carnet by his own choice. he had a human intellect. To say that he had a human intellect is not to say that he only had a human intellect it is to say that he also had a human intellect. Because in this capacity there were things that he did not know.
In the person of Christ, we have two natures in one person. He is truly Human and he is truly God. All that can be found of God and all that can be expressed of God.
I would think of another avenue of approach if this was true. Not try explaining the Trinity to a Jehovah witness.Quote:
What you've posted about Jesus sounds like the beliefs of the Jehovah's Witness
That is not correct. Jesus prayed in John 17, "That they might know You, the only true God, and Jesus whom Thou hast sent." That certainly speaks of relationship. That relationship is spoken of frequently. When we pray, Jesus taught that we pray to the Father. "Our Father, who art in heaven..."Quote:
We are not called to have a relationship with GOD
As to the rest of your comments, you seem to saying that Jesus is completely God and completely man. If so, then good for you.
We can't have a relationship with God outside of? Just as we all fall short of loving God with our all.
Yet we are "Commanded" (Not called) to love GOD (no one loves GOD, not one) with all our heart, mind, body, soul, strength. God brings us to Jesus. We are to come (called to have a relationship) to Jesus...
You don't have to have a relationship with your Father, he is still your Father, and you are commanded too...
Saul of Tarsus, Loved, God (under the Commandment) with all (maybe as close as one can) his heart...yet he was kicking Jesus down.
I leave you to your own understanding. It's hard for me to understand even harder to explain.
Has to do with The Trinity, Separate but the same. Jesus in GOD, GOD in Jesus...Humanity in Jesus, Jesus in Humanity.
Husband and Wife might be similar...Bride of Christ.
Much the same as "Jesus came to save Humanity"- not really - Jesus came to do his Father's Will.
waltero, you are three in one, separate but the same -- you are a son, a nephew, and a brother.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
I don't know what you are trying to say.Quote:
We can't have a relationship with God outside of? Just as we all fall short of loving God with our all.
Yet we are "Commanded" (Not called) to love GOD (no one loves GOD, not one) with all our heart, mind, body, soul, strength. God brings us to Jesus. We are to come (called to have a relationship) to Jesus...
You don't have to have a relationship with your Father, he is still your Father, and you are commanded too...
Not according to Jesus. Jesus said the Jews did not accept Him because they did not accept His Father to begin with. John 8:42ff. 42Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I came not of my own accord, but he sent me. 43Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word. 44You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.Quote:
Saul of Tarsus, Loved, God (under the Commandment) with all (maybe as close as one can) his heart...yet he was kicking Jesus down.
It has been said that "love is blind."
If this is so, then Saul's love for his religion led him to be totally convinced of the inerrancy of the Pharisaical doctrines and the righteousness of his ways. Years later he wrote, ". . . If anyone else thinks he has reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more: circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee; as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for legalistic righteousness, faultless." (Philippians 3:4-6)
Describing the spirit he nurtured, Saul said: “As respects zeal, [I was] persecuting the congregation; as respects righteousness that is by means of law, one who proved himself blameless.” “To the point of excess I kept on persecuting the congregation of God and devastating it, and I was making greater progress in Judaism than many of my own age in my race, as I was far more zealous for the traditions of my fathers.”—Philippians 3:6; Galatians 1:13, 14.
God commanded; love, GOD, with all your heart. Remember, It is GOD that leads us to Jesus. We have no love for GOD unless GOD gives us that love (Jesus). Everything we have (even our love for GOD) is through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
“Man’s chief end is to glorify God, and to enjoy him forever.”
I think that's pretty well said. When a person genuinely loves God, he will easily come to love His Son.Quote:
If this is so, then Saul's love for his religion led him to be totally convinced of the inerrancy of the Pharisaical doctrines and the righteousness of his ways.
I love that quote. I think we fall short in the area of enjoying Him.Quote:
“Man’s chief end is to glorify God, and to enjoy him forever.”
It's one of my Fav.Quote:
“Man’s chief end is to glorify God, and to enjoy him forever.”
I love that quote.
Thank God For Jesus, Or I'd be toast!Quote:
I think we fall short in the area of enjoying Him.
Maybe he will put a new song in your heart. The Joy is sure to come, for those that believe.
Our time is in His Hands...Another fav.
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