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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

First, I have to stop you from accusing me of saying what I did not say. When we are clear on that, we can continue.

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I quoted you - if you did not mean to say that, then please state open that you withdraw what you said or clarify what it is that you believe.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Goodbye. Unsubscribed.

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The ultimate avoidance of an answer!

Yeah she wants to keep going round and round about what she didn't say but refuses to clarify what she means so maybe it is that she doesn't even know what she believes?

Wow, things went sour in a hurry!

WG, sorry you left. I must admit you are confusing because you seem to be straddling the fence.

Alty, if you are still around, I believe there will be all kinds of people in heaven that we didn't expect and missing plenty that we did expect. But according to the Bible ( I have not other authority in Christianity) there will not be one person in heaven that did not arrive via the Lord Jesus Christ and his finished work.

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Originally Posted by Tj3

The ultimate avoidance of an answer!

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When in doubt I guess the answer is to walk out. I think Jakester had it right... standing up for Christianity and what Jesus said takes courage!

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Originally Posted by sndbay

No way no how!

2 John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed KJV


Phl 2:10-11 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

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Sndbay,

WHOO HOO! WE agree. I knew it could happen. :p

What gets me is that people get mad that Christians believe they are the only ones that go to heaven yet on the other hand they will complain ''what do I want to go to heaven for it sounds boring''. I wonder why people who are not Christian get annoyed that they have to go through Jesus yet they reject Christ yet they dispute Christians claims about non Christians not getting to go to heaven.

What is it they want!

Nohelp,

What they want I think is their OWN way, what they feel comfortable with. It isn't an easy thing to accept that we are lost, wicked, sinful people that cannont stand in God's presence in that condition. It is easier to think we aren't all that bad.

Yeah the fuzzy feel good doctrine.

Hey, I know I get heated on this topic and I have to keep myself in check. But I remember what the Lord said in the letter to the last church in Revelation. ( he was talking to CHRISTIANS) I will paraphrase it by saying he just wanted them to be hot or cold , but lukewarm, wishy washy, fuzzy wuzzy made him want to spew out of his mouth.

I know what I believe and I don't straddle the fence. I guess it isn't real popular.

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Originally Posted by classyT

when in doubt i guess the answer is to walk out. I think Jakester had it right...standing up for Christianity and what Jesus said takes courage!

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Yep - it seems to be fewer and fewer of us who are ready and willing to stand on what God said.

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Originally Posted by N0help4u

What gets me is that people get mad that Christians believe they are the only ones that go to heaven yet on the other hand they will complain ''what do I want to go to heaven for it sounds boring''. I wonder why people who are not Christian get annoyed that they have to go through Jesus yet they reject Christ yet they dispute Christians claims about non Christians not getting to go to heaven.

What is it they want!?

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Yep, and they get mad when we simply point out what scripture says because we are saying that they are wrong in believing that there are many ways - but they think nothing of ripping apart Christianity with nothing more than their opinion.

Isn't it weird that "the system" lets me give greenies to anyone I choose, yet continually blocks me giving TJ3 the thumbs up? It's almost like "the system" lets their personal beliefs help keep Tom from reaching expert status that he deserves.

If it says you have to spread the rep it means that you have to give others more greenies first then you can come back and give tj the rating.

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Originally Posted by homesell

Isn't it weird that "the system" lets me give greenies to anyone I choose, yet continually blocks me giving TJ3 the thumbs up? It's almost like "the system" lets their personal beliefs help keep Tom from reaching expert status that he deserves.

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Thanks!

Nohelp4u is right - I believe that you must give it to 5 other people before giving it to the same person a second time. I run into that problem all the time with certain people who keep giving good answers (Nohelp4u, ClassT and yourself are three who often give good answers where this happens).

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Originally Posted by classyT

I was on a thread last nite that I was accused of hijacking...I apologize to anyone who thought so. ANYWAY, I was speaking to people who call themselves Christians and realized I wasn't even on the same page as they were. I do NOT believe that all paths lead to God and I do NOT believe that God placed his spirit in each of us. I do NOT believe that he has written his spirit on our hearts.(.i dunno what that even means? ) I can't find any scripture to even suggests such a thing. I believe the Holy Spirit indwells each believer in Jesus Christ. I don't go by what I feel, I only go by what the word of God says. We got on the subject because someone was on the Christian board looking for God and questioned what he had been taught .

I was surprised to see that someone who calls themself a Christian, advised the OP to read read read all different types of material from Hindu's, Muslims, wiccan...whatever! This was weird to me. When You have truly found the Living God through Jesus Christ our Lord....aren't you suppose to lead them to him through HIS word? In other words........ This is Jesus Christ speaking....


I am the way

I am the truth

I am the LIFE

No one comes to the Father BUT by ME! John 14:6


That is the only Christianity I KNOW. Help me out. Do you as a Christian believe other paths..(other than the Finished work of Christ)..leads to the Father?

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I am a born again believer. I agree with you. The word speaks of the state of so called believers in the last days. Giving themselves over to certain doctrines that confuse and depart from the ways of God. Seducing spirits brought on by itching ears that desire a way to please their flesh instead of the Will and commandments of God. You stand firm on the Bible in which you believe. It is your faith that will keep you. It is His grace that will sustain you. It is His spirit that will guide you to the truth. And in the end it is Jesus that we will have to stand before and give an account for our beings. We all are running in the race, but you run as one who will receive the crown. The wheat must grow with the tare. The sheep with the goats. In the end He will separate those that are His. We know His voice. Do not be deceived. Man is appointed to die and then judgement. Hold on to What you know is right. He is the way the truth and the life . NO MAN GOES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH ME. He is the Gate! God Bless and keep you...

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Originally Posted by Tj3

Yep - it seems to be fewer and fewer of us who are ready and willing to stand on what God said.

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Yes and in reality we that know the word, and the working of salvation by God's hands here on earth. We can instead remain stedfast in HIS truth that is written. From all that God has shown in scripture, people will be permitted their choice by delusion given in the reaping of their actions and hearts. As it was shown and spoken of in verses such as (Ezek 7:26-27, Amos 8:13, Ps 74:9).

I believe more and more lies will be taught as man continues to follow man instead of following Christ. And too, some lies will be taught in HIS NAME as the book of revelation exampled in John's vision of the churches.

Repent, and hold stedfast faith in Christ as the only way. Those that are kept by God's power through their faith in Christ Jesus will see salvation. ( 1 Peter 1:5 )

Exactly man decides if he wants to accept or reject God. He thinks he can make excuses that man wrote or altered the Bible or that God accepts all people no matter what but whatever excuses he wants to make in the end he wants to blame God for his choice to reject God.
God doesn't turn us away. We decide that on our own by our beliefs and actions.

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Originally Posted by homesell

Isn't it weird that "the system" lets me give greenies to anyone I choose, yet continually blocks me giving TJ3 the thumbs up? It's almost like "the system" lets their personal beliefs help keep Tom from reaching expert status that he deserves.

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The amount of greenies one has doesn't have anything to do with 'expert status'. I had expert status and chose to have it removed. And what expert status would you think he would request, homesell. All he need do is request. I think it would be a grand assumption to be called 'christianity expert'.

Tick

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Originally Posted by Tbask04

NO MAN GOES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH ME. He is the Gate! God Bless and keep you...

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Hello:

So, a nice Jewish boy like me ain't going to make it, huh? If we're so wrong, how come you worship one of us. Jesus wasn't a Christian. He was a Jew - a practising Jew. The Last Supper was a Sedar.

excon

So as a Jew do you live for God and the Jewish faith or do you leave God out of your life?
I believe that SOME in different religions can be saved because God KNOWS their heart and they go according to what they know but if you reject God or live for your own desires then God judges accordingly.
God does not reject us we reject him
Our life style and actions reflect it.

*The Bible does say the Jew first and then the gentile but I don't know the details on how he decides when it comes to Jews other than what I have just said.

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Originally Posted by N0help4u

I believe that SOME in different religions can be saved.

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Hello Saph:

Cool. Pearly Gates, here I come.

excon

excon agrees: I knew YOU'D let ME in.
I'll try and sneak you in the back door :D

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello:

So, a nice Jewish boy like me ain't gonna make it, huh? If we're so wrong, how come you worship one of us. Jesus wasn't a Christian. He was a Jew - a practising Jew. The Last Supper was a Sedar.

excon

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Ex,

Sure a nice Jewish boy like you can make it! We WANT you there... more importantly that practicing Jew you spoke of wants you there. ;)

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Originally Posted by N0help4u

excon agrees: I knew YOU'D let ME in.
I'll try and sneak you in the back door :D

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I'll help you guys but with my luck we'd all three get caught and thrown out. :D Ex is always gettng me in trouble anyway... ( just teasing).

Better yet.. hows about coming through the proper Door the right way. Hmmm?

Not totally sure I understand the Jewish relationship with the Father. I mean, are they automatically let in simply because they are Jewish? Because I do not see where they have to accept Christ.
But, guess this needs to be another thread? So please forgive me if I repost it on a new topic.

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Originally Posted by 450donn

Not totally sure I understand the Jewish relationship with the Father. I mean, are they automatically let in simply because they are Jewish? Because I do not see where they have to accept Christ.
But, guess this needs to be another thread? So please forgive me if I repost it on a new topic.

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450donn,

I was teasing around. NO one comes to the Father but through Jesus Christ. Any Jew can come this side of the cross, as long as he comes like the rest of the church... accepting Christ as savior and Lord.

Note: anyone's thoughts are welcome though

If they reject God and live like a heathen then no they wouldn't have an ez pass. I really don't know either other than that.

Nohelp,

I think there are people who believe that but I can't see anything in the word to back that up.

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello:

So, a nice Jewish boy like me ain't gonna make it, huh? If we're so wrong, how come you worship one of us. Jesus wasn't a Christian. He was a Jew - a practising Jew. The Last Supper was a Sedar.

excon

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What you say is right, but you missed one key point.. Jesus was both man and God.

If not for the jews, There would not have been an oppourtunity to be grafted in. I support CUFI. I know you guys are His chosen nation. You are the natural birth seed of Abraham. I am the spiritual seed of the same by faith. I have the upmost respect for your people. Its not my job to change what you believe. Its my job to walk by the faith which I choose to. Its not a matter to mprove whose belief is right or better. That will be solved when He comes. I am to work out my salvation. So in love, You believe what you must, but I can not deny my beliefs what a jewish carpenter did for me,you and all mankind way back on calvary... In love, that's what he calls us to. Love God,Love one another, And serve the world. Not judge it,not fix it , & by all means not to condemn it. But to pray for it always.

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Originally Posted by Athos

I realize this is anathema to most fundamentalist Christians but, yes, all paths lead to God.

By "paths", I don't mean some of the more bizarre things like the cults that make the news every so often but other non-Christian religions and philosophies like Judaism, Taoism, Buddhism, Islam, etc., etc. all leading to God. Jesus himself, after all, was a Jew.

The Christian Old and New Testaments can be selectively cited to dispute this, but they can also be cited to support this. All depends on how one interprets. In a series of books of almost a million words written over a long period of time by different authors, interpretations will necessarily vary. Just consider the different ways on these pages between Catholics and Protestants, and even among Protestants.

Each path often has its own Scripture which its adherents believe as strongly as Christians believe theirs. Who can say which is more true? To simply declaim that Christianity is the only path is based on a kind of uncritical belief that is rarely examined. And, even more troubling, is the tendency to "prove" Christian Scripture by citing the Scripture itself - an irrational method comprising a logical fallacy.

This seems to be threatening to some Christians and the reason why is another question entirely.

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One choses to believe what they chose to believe. Why is it so important for you to question our beliefs? If we sre living a life of love, not judging, not condeming, not punishing, not forcing you to do anything, why should we not be able to express our beliefs. The world has always expressed theirs to us? We are called to love God,love one another, and serve the world. By any means necessary... and if we have to,even use words. Love yo, not hatred. They're extremist in every area... Love is the key.

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Originally Posted by simoneaugie

To not feel what is right, to only follow rules read, is that what Jesus would have done? Why were we given both brains and feelings?

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My friend, one can do a good thing right and not be doing the right thing good... Christianity is not about a bunch of rules. Its about a relationship. One that was broken, that has now been repaired. When you entered into your relationship, I'm sure there were things you did that your other half didn't care too much for. Once you saw that they didn't, you naturally stop doing those things they found unpleasing. Probably out of love. Well, that's a christian's M.O. with God. You come as you are. When you find out that some things are unpleasing to God, you naturally with the revelation of the spirit of truth, begin to stop doing the things that are unpleasing to the one you love... Its not legalistic, don't stop doing anything you're doing right now to come to Him. But after long, if you really try to get to know and love Him, I guarantee you won't want to do certain things anymore. What have you got to lose? You don't believe right now anyway? Dare you to try... (smile)


Athos, you can't get mad with persons that point out what's in the scripture. You can only chose to disagree with it. If the bible makes that statement,it is what it is. But for you to try and tell those striving to live a standard when you aren't living any standard how to interpret their beliefs is fallacy. Acts of love can never be justified with hatred. In the end its not up to us to try and prove who is right. My belief says none of us are. That's why my faith lies in the jewish carpenter who was right. What about u?

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello:

So, a nice Jewish boy like me ain't gonna make it, huh? If we're so wrong, how come you worship one of us. Jesus wasn't a Christian. He was a Jew - a practising Jew. The Last Supper was a Sedar.

excon

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You too have the choice before you.. not because of your heritage,but of your free will. He didn't die for one people, He died for all... All means all. So the choice will always be yours..

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Originally Posted by Tbask04

You too have the choice before you.

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Hello T:

What?? So, if I choose to believe what your GOD believed, I'm going to hell? Why don't YOU do the switching? Wassa matter? The religion of your GOD ain't good enough for you??

excon

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Originally Posted by DrJizzle

Ive always found it interesting when Christianity is taught with the fear of that "curse"... or with the promise of the "reward".

I would like to take a peak into a world where God said to his followers that they must love and obey Him and by doing so they would be eternally damned to Hell. And all the non-believers would go on to a Heaven where they would spend eternity.

The point being that they should love their God regardless of the reward/punishment. THEN, we could see who the REAL Christians are.

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Not really man. Altering the standard set by the authority of salvation of ones belief isn't salvation at all. You can always do what you want and let life be what it may. But you can't tell those striving to live a life that pleases the God they choose to love how they should do that. I isn't trying to change nothing about you. Do what you do. I can't judge you man. But there's no way you who isn't living any standard can try to judge those that are? Love God, love one another and serve the world. The judge will do all the judging when He comes. If you're right, look at the 3 statements of my life... If the bible is right? Look at your defense to the judge...

If a person is asleep in his apartment and the building catches fire, It is our duty in love to warn them and try to help them escape. This is why Peter preached to the Jews. Sometimes the sleeping person curses or gets mad at you for trying to wake them up. Sometimes they will deny there is a fire. Sometimes they will say or think I'm enjoying this dream I'm having, why not wait until just before the fire gets here to my apartment and then I can enjoy the dream AND escape from the fire.
Penn, of the illusionist duo Penn and Teller is one of the most famous outspoken atheists in the world, yet, even He himself said, "A person that truly believes Christianity, hates his fellow man if he refuses to at least try to tell him about what the Bible says about Jesus. Those are the Christians I repect. That's love from their point of view. They are consistent with their beliefs.The ones that merely point their fingers, judge me, and condemn me I have no respect for."

galveston disagrees: How could books written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, and Paul have been written centuries after the time of Jesus Christ?

That puzzles me too. I would love to hear the answer to that one. I understand they are saying the books and writings were compiled and chosen at that time but still the writings were the disciples in the long run.

I was not always a Christian.I mean I was born and raised a Greek Orthodox but I did not KNOW Christ, I was simply following tradition.
My path was outside Christ, my life was surely not under His blood,my name was SIN!
But that path did not stop Jesus to find me.
Now , whenever somoene asks me directions to the Truth I can only point to Him.
That does not mean that I believe that there is no hope for someone who walks his own path.
I assure you, it is n ot the path that counts, it is the heart that God examines!
Now ask yourselves,what was your path before He found you?
Did you do everything right and made Him find you?I doubt that , I believe that there came a time that you realized that what you did was wrong and then He came to you.
At what point of your path where you standing when He found you?
I was covered from head to toe with dirt.Was I any better than a Muslim,or a Buddhist,or a Hindu,or you name it?I was the worst human being on earth.
I was no better than a Satanist,because what I did with my life was not what God wanted me to, but what sin,Satan's child wanted me to do.
So I would be very careful touching a subject like this one and once again I say that I thank God with all my heart that this is not up to me but ONLY up to Him!

Athos,
I believe that EVERYTHING goes back the creator.
What He does with it is His choice.
I also believe that He gave to us Holy Scripture we call the bible as a set of instructions to follow.
Jesus is nor Just in the New Testament. The Old refers to Him and even predicts His coming and what will happen about and to Him.
Some of that was written thousands of years before He arrived.
Taking the bible as a whole it is had for me Not to believe what is says considering all that is written and the times of the writing.
I do believe that no matter what path a person takes in life it will lead to God.
But each of those paths end up before the judgment seat of God.
I also believe what Jesus said, that He IS the way, the truth, and the life.
That tells me that Jesus Christ will be the one who decides what will happen to each person and about what he/she has done in this life.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

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Originally Posted by adam7gur

I was not always a Christian.I mean I was born and raised a Greek Orthodox but I did not KNOW Christ, I was simply following tradition.
My path was outside Christ, my life was surely not under His blood,my name was SIN!
But that path did not stop Jesus to find me.
Now , whenever somoene asks me directions to the Truth I can only point to Him.
That does not mean that I believe that there is no hope for someone who walks his own path.
I assure you, it is n ot the path that counts, it is the heart that God examines!
Now ask yourselves,what was your path before He found you?
Did you do everything right and made Him find you?I doubt that , I believe that there came a time that you realized that what you did was wrong and then He came to you.
At what point of your path where you standing when He found you?
I was covered from head to toe with dirt.Was I any better than a Muslim,or a Buddhist,or a Hindu,or you name it?I was the worst human being on earth.
I was no better than a Satanist,because what I did with my life was not what God wanted me to, but what sin,Satan's child wanted me to do.
So I would be very carefull touching a subject like this one and once again I say that I thank God with all my heart that this is not up to me but ONLY up to Him!

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Adam,

People have become saved while in cults, while in Nazi concentration camps, and other ungodly place.

What that tells us is that God can work in the hearts of men despite those situations - it is not to say that all paths lead to God.

Tom
I hope you understand that I never meant that I can do whatever I want and at the end enjoy God's Kingdom.
I only said what you also said that I am 100%convinced that God can find us no matter what our path is because He looks for the heart.
The thief on the cross, what kind of a path did he have,but that did not stop Jesus to find him.
That's all I said and I will add to that if I can be found , so can everyone!

John 1:11-12
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
(KJV)

How can you refuse and offer like that?