adam7gur,
I agree with you 100% on that.
Tom is and has often used and read Scripture they way he wants it to be rather than what it really says.
That's very typical of the fundamentalist way.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
|
adam7gur,
I agree with you 100% on that.
Tom is and has often used and read Scripture they way he wants it to be rather than what it really says.
That's very typical of the fundamentalist way.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
I will not apologize for refusing to go beyond what God's word says. Now if you want to convince me of your interpretation, get into scripture rather than attacking the person.Quote:
Originally Posted by adam7gur
I agree that we are all God's within our right as we where created in the Creators imageQuote:
Originally Posted by adam7gur
lighterrr
Help me understand better.
Do you mean God's or gods?
Fred
I have seen this happening many times and it is not the person that annoys me , but the behavior.I myself am no better than Tom or anyone else but ''am I my brother's keeper?'' , yes I am and so are you and everyone.
If you help me see something wrong inside me , I will be thankfull.
May God bless you my brother, and Tom and everyone!
adam7gur,Quote:
Originally Posted by adam7gur
With a heart of love for God, and the hope of doing HIS will, I believe the teaching of Psalm 82:6 is concerning those who represent God's Will in the judgement over evil to provide justice to mankind.
The scripture verse of John 10:34 is teaching a detail fact concerning the will of God. (Note Jesus said verse 37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
When we read in verse (35 NOTE:If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken) Here Jesus brings this to their attention because He wants them to realize that HE, HIMSELF does the will of HIS Father to show conviction, and fulfillment to the WORD of God, that was sent, as verse 34 said, unto whom the word came / representing the Father's Will coming to who He has called upon to judge His people.
Christ always did HIS Father's Will! And also shows how we should follow Christ, and acknowledge the truth in confessed belief that Christ is the begotten Son of God. WE are servants set free to do as Christ did in the Father's Will, because the word comes to us as servants representing the Will of our Father.
Reference: Ex 22:28 shows the gods, are as the rules representiing God in judgement of the people.
So going back to Psalms 82 God has made it clear that He has judge those who are gods, and God is finding fault in how they are judging HIS people. Verse 82:3 goes to says how God's will is that they judge the poor, fatherless in justice of their own needs. God's will is that the judges representing HIM, will do HIS will to rid the people out of the hands of wickedness.
Psalms 82:7 says they shall die like men and fall like princes so please refer: Numbers 16:2
Reminding ourselves always: But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. (Luke 6:35-36)
Again, if adhering to scripture annoys you, that is not my problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by adam7gur
Secondly, you may not have noticed, but there have been a large number of threads shut down for people going after other people rather than adhering to the topic, and if you continue, I fear that this thread may have the same fate. If you don't like me - that is too bad, stay with the topic.
Ps 82
God stands in the congregation of the mighty;
He judges among the gods.
So far so good...
2 How long will you judge unjustly,
And show partiality to the wicked?
Selah
Thses gods judge unjustly and favour the wicked! Are these sanctified persons, or is this an endorsement of these "gods"?
3 Defend the poor and fatherless;
Do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy;
Free them from the hand of the wicked.
God tells them what they need to do, which suggests that they are currently doing none of the above or God would not need to mention it.
5 They do not know, nor do they understand;
They walk about in darkness;
All the foundations of the earth are unstable.
They do not understand, they are unstable and walk around in darkness. Are these sanctified persons, or is this an endorsement of these "gods"?
6 I said, "You are gods,
And all of you are children of the Most High.
Next God tells us how he will judge these "You are gods,
And all of you are children of the Most High.
Next God tells us how he will judge these "...
7 But you shall die like men,
And fall like one of the princes."
8 Arise, O God, judge the earth;
For You shall inherit all nations.
NKJV
Where is the endorsement of the belief that men are gods? Are these the type of giods that men desire to become:
- Unjust
- wicked
- unstable
- lacking understanding
- unstable
- walk in darkness
Further, I note the use of John 10:34 previous by those defending this belief. Please note that in John 10:26, we are told something else about these "...........
7 But you shall die like men,
And fall like one of the princes."
John 10:26-28
26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
NKJV
These "gods" are not saved, and do not follow Jesus.
Hardly an endorsement. Jesus is condemning them by reference to Ps 82, as unjust judges.
Off thread...Quote:
Originally Posted by lighterrr
The image of God is righteousness, It is an evident idenity of 3 that are righteous. (Genesis 1:26 plural in our, and in likeness in spirit.) Father... SON... Holy Spirit...
We have been sent the Word as a calling to that righteousness. That Word was made flesh to show us the way. God gave all power and dominion to HIS begotten Son, Christ Jesus, because when mankind was created, they were given dominion over this earth, "HOWEVER" they were beguided by satan and fell to wickness. (mankind then was no longer in the image of God)
Christ set us free from that curse, HIS blood paid the price and gives us grace/love from Our Father to follow HIS WORD, HIS WILL in HIS SON = EMMANUEL
Free choice to answer that calling, and come to the WORD profitable in godliness.
Be ye holy for I am HOLY (1 Peter 1:16)
God. Singular, I meant to say that god lives within us. So every human being has the spirit of the almighty God dwelling within.Quote:
Originally Posted by adam7gur
Scripture says that it is only those who believe in Jesus:Quote:
Originally Posted by lighterrr
John 7:39
39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
NKJV
But unbelievers cannot receive the Holy Spirit:
John 14:16-17
17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.
NKJV
True because it is said NOW we have hope.. Acts 2:26-28 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance. KJVQuote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
Acts 2:29-32 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. KJV
Acts 2:33-35 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
When we believe in The WORD of GOD, and when we confess Christ as GOD begotten Son, then we can be baptized into newness of life. A life of righteousness in which Christ dwells within you, HIS righteousness that offers you death of this world, and able to rise as He did raise.
Baptized when Acts 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
The Word Of God
adam7gur,
Thanks.
I do believe as you do believe on this.
We are gods, some good, some bad.
Fred
Fred,
Huh?? Gods? Come ON! Surely that isn't a catholic teachng? We are human beings in need of a savior. We are ALL "BAD" if you want to use that term.. there is NONE that is good... except for Christ Jesus who IS GOD.
Unfortunately, Classy, it is a Catholic teaching. Here is a quote from the Catechism of the Catholic Church, published by the Roman Catholic Church:Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
460 The Word became flesh to make us "partakers of the divine nature":78 "For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God."79 "For the Son of God became man so that we might become God."80 "The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods.
I copied this directly from the Vatican website.
It is, however, not Biblical.
Classyt.
Tj3 posted what I would have and it IS biblical as has been posted here in this thread.
Others just want to interpret it their way rather than as Jesus interpreted it.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
If it is Biblical, then Fred, show us where scripture endorses the belief that men are gods (or as the CCC says, that men are God).Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
As we have shown, Psalm 82 is a condemnation of that belief, and Jesus referred to it in John 10 to condemn the actions of those unbelievers who judged the Son of God falsely. No interpretation - it is Jesus' own words.
Tj3.
You have shown nothing that changes what the CCC said.
That I believe yoy can believe as you wish.
I'm going to bed now and I'll pray for you.
Fred
Hebrews 12.10: "in order that we may share <or: participate> in his holiness".Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
2Peter 1.4: "may become participants of the divine nature" (FYI: the divine nature is divinity--so we will participate in God's divinity).
1Corinthians 15.28: "so that God may be all in all [hina he ho theos ta panta en pasin]".
Ephesians 1.10: "as a plan for the fullness of time, to gather up all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth".
Acts 3.21 on apokatastasis. See Matthew 17.11, also on apokatasis.
This is an important issue, and it is directly relevant to the topic of the thread since it speaks to the question concerning what we are predestined for. The answer is given quite explicitly at 2Peter 1.4: Participation in the divine nature. In Greek this is called theosis. Don't make the mistake I have seen some fall into, of confusing theosis with the (Mormon) idea that we are to become gods in our own right. It is rather the idea that we are to become one with God, with the Divine nature. The oneness with God made possible by Christ isn't merely the harmony of our will with that of our Creator; the oneness with God which we are to enjoy is deeper than that. The perfection of our sanctification (a process which has already begun, of course) will come with our transformation, the transformation of our nature through unity with the Holy Trinity.
Note also that the Catholics, Orthodox, and others who believe in theosis are not as a rule adherents of the man-made doctrine of sola scriptura, a doctrine we recently saw you unable to vindicate. So, if your complaint is that theosis is not scriptural I would point out two things:
1. The above scriptures comport with one another to provide scriptural grounds for the doctrine of theosis, particularly when taken together with the teachings of the early Church regarding them. (The fifth book of Irenaeus's Adverus haereses, composed in the second century, is particularly helpful here.)
2. Scripture is not the sole authority and standard of truth in matters of doctrine and discipline--a fact that was recently brought vividly to light in the religious discussions forum where we saw (a.) that Scripture itself instructs us to uphold and abide by teachings that are outside Scripture* and (b.) that the doctrine of sola scriptura is itself an un-Scriptural man-made tradition. Recall that the only Scripture you were able to offer in defense of sola scriptura was a misreading of 2Timothy 3.14-17. That you had misunderstood (or perhaps consciously misrepresented--there's no way to know which) this passage was demonstrated repeatedly and was explained to you by a number of people, including a recent sola-scripturist. You have been unable to provide Scriptural vindication for your sola-scripturist commitments and so it really isn't at all reasonable of you to demand that others conform to those commitments. When you abandon that portion of God's revelation that has been given to us via Tradition, you severely limit your ability to reach a proper understanding of Scripture.
* The full import and proper understanding of the above-cited Scriptures would count as an authoritative teaching that is itself outside of Scripture.
So you do believe that man becomes God?Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
Christ's righteousness is imputed to those who believe - but it is HIS righteousness, not our. This has nothing to do with becoming "gods" or becoming God.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akoue
Ever heard of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit? God remains God, man remain man. It does not make man God.Quote:
2Peter 1.4: "may become participants of the divine nature" (FYI: the divine nature is divinity--so we will participate in God's divinity).
1 Cor 15:28Quote:
1Corinthians 15.28: "so that God may be all in all [hina he ho theos ta panta en pasin]".
28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.
NKJV
To claim that this suggests that man becomes gods or God is a major stretch. Especially if you take the time to read it in context:
1 Cor 15:20-27
20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For "He has put all things under His feet." But when He says "all things are put under Him," it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted.
NKJV
Read the whole verse:Quote:
Ephesians 1.10: "as a plan for the fullness of time, to gather up all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth".
Eph 1:7-10
7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth--in Him.
NKJV
This is speaking of redemption, not making men gods or God.
This is speaking also of being saved:Quote:
Acts 3.21 on apokatastasis. See Matthew 17.11, also on apokatasis.
Acts 3:19-21
19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, 20 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.
NKJV
This this is speaking of John the Baptist:
Matt 17:10-13
11 Jesus answered and said to them, "Indeed, Elijah is coming first and will restore all things. 12 But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him but did to him whatever they wished. Likewise the Son of Man is also about to suffer at their hands." 13 Then the disciples understood that He spoke to them of John the Baptist.
NKJV
Yes, Akoue, I take the time to read the context!
It does not matter how you explain it. Scripture is clear that men do not become gods. The only places that you find any mention of such a thing is when Satan tries to transfer his ambition to become god to man, and in Psalm 82 / John 10 when it is a condemnation / judgment against those who are unsaved and who have rejected the righteousness of God.Quote:
This is an important issue, and it is directly relevant to the topic of the thread since it speaks to the question concerning what we are predestined for. The answer is given quite explicitly at 2Peter 1.4: Participation in the divine nature. In Greek this is called theosis. Don't make the mistake I have seen some fall into, of confusing theosis with the (Mormon) idea that we are to become gods in our own right. It is rather the idea that we are to become one with God, with the Divine nature. The oneness with God made possible by Christ isn't merely the harmony of our will with that of our Creator; the oneness with God which we are to enjoy is deeper than that. The perfection of our sanctification (a process which has already begun, of course) will come with our transformation, the transformation of our nature through unity with the Holy Trinity.
As for Mormons theology, I have, numerous times debated this very thing with Mormons and Roman Catholics who have joined together in agreement on their beliefs, defending them as a commonly held belief - one such catholic is a common participant on this board. Some people on another board thought for a while that he had converted to Mormonism, he was such a strong defender of their teachings for a period.
Their lack of adherence to sola scriptura is no doubt one of the reasons that we differ on this point, I agree. Scripture is very clear regarding the fact that men are not gods, and I stick by what it says.Quote:
Note also that the Catholics, Orthodox, and others who believe in theosis are not as a rule adherents of the man-made doctrine of sola scriptura, a doctrine we recently saw you unable to vindicate.
Theosis is not "men becoming gods."Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
Fred, Akoue
Thank you!
I did not bring up theosis - Akoue did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
But the Roman catholic denomination does speak of men becoming god's and men becoming God.
What I am trying to figure out is why this is being brought up at all - what does that have to do with predestination in any case?
adam7gur quoted from Psalm 82, and you responded to him that men do not become gods (no apostrophe). Others chimed in with opinions, and Akoue explained theosis, a sort of related but different and much misunderstood theology. It has to do with predestination in that... are we predestined for theosis?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
Anyone can believe what they want, but men do not become gods in any way, shape or form. God even warned us against exalting ourselves:Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Matt 23:12
12 And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.
NKJV
Which is what calling ourselves gods in any form does.
Therefore God could not have predestined anyone to something that He condemns.
Reference: Ex 22:28 shows the gods, are as the rules, representiing God in judgement of the people. But they were being called gods.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
And we are to walk in righteousness, being holy as He is HOLY because we confess faith and worthyness in HIS blood that set us free from what Adam and Eve did. There is no double minded option once baptized into the newness of life. We are no longer cursed because we have the free will choice to the Tree of Life.
If anyone doubts this, they doubt Christ's worthyness, and remain in sin.
1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
It is clear if anyone wants to be a sinner, they remain with satan and his tree of knowledge in evil.
1 John 3:1-3 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
Here's the verse I quoted:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
This doesn't say anything about "imputation". It says, quite explicitly, that we share or participate in God's holiness. How many holinesses are there? Just one, right? God's. There is only one holiness, and it is in that one holiness that we participate.Quote:
Hebrews 12.10: "in order that we may share <or: participate> in his holiness".
Surely you aren't going to tell me that this verse doesn't mean what it says. I ask, because it says "share", not "impute".
Here's the verse I quoted:Quote:
Ever heard of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit? God remains God, man remain man. It does not make man God.
This says nothing about the "indwelling" of the Holy Spirit. It says that we are to participate in the Divine nature. Again, I am assuming that the Scripture means what it says.Quote:
2Peter 1.4: "may become participants of the divine nature" (FYI: the divine nature is divinity--so we will participate in God's divinity).
Why, then, I guess it's a good thing that I didn't claim that it "suggests that man becomes gods [sic] or God". It does, though, say that "God may be all in all". We will become one with God, we will participate in God's nature, in his holiness. This is exactly what the doctrine of theosis and its Catholic counterpart say. If you dislike the use of the word "deification" then it seems likely that the reason for this is your poor understanding both of Scripture and of the Orthodox and Catholic teachings. (You make a telling remark below which appears to indicate that this diagnosis is on the right track.)Quote:
1 Cor 15:28
28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.
NKJV
To claim that this suggests that man becomes gods or God is a major stretch. Especially if you take the time to read it in context:
Theosis is redemption. I thought you had studied this stuff.Quote:
Eph 1:7-10
7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth--in Him.
NKJV
This is speaking of redemption, not making men gods or God.
Again, you have led us to believe that you've studied this stuff. So I am to gather that you know nothing about apokatastasis? That's fine. We'll just set it aside. You should spend some time pondering what is meant by talk about the "restoration of all things".Quote:
This is speaking also of being saved:
Acts 3:19-21
19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, 20 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.
NKJV
This this is speaking of John the Baptist:
Matt 17:10-13
11 Jesus answered and said to them, "Indeed, Elijah is coming first and will restore all things. 12 But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him but did to him whatever they wished. Likewise the Son of Man is also about to suffer at their hands." 13 Then the disciples understood that He spoke to them of John the Baptist.
NKJV
This is a very telling statement.Quote:
It does not matter how you explain it.
Scripture is clear that we will participate in the Divine nature. This participation in the Divine nature is called theosis by Eastern Orthodoxy and deification by Catholicism.Quote:
Scripture is clear that men do not become gods. The only places that you find any mention of such a thing is when Satan tries to transfer his ambition to become god to man, and in Psalm 82 / John 10 when it is a condemnation / judgment against those who are unsaved and who have rejected the righteousness of God.
I have said nothing about Psalm 82 or John 10. You can take that up with Adam7gur, if you like.
Since Catholic and Mormon theology are not in agreement on this matter, it seems likely that one or both of the following things were going on between these (fictional?) interlocutors: (a.) The Catholic and Mormon were in agreement with each other that you were mistaken, or (b.) one or both of them had a deficient understanding of the teachings of his own church. Either way, the anecdote contributes nothing to the present discussion.Quote:
As for Mormons theology, I have, numerous times debated this very thing with Mormons and Roman Catholics who have joined together in agreement on their beliefs, defending them as a commonly held belief - one such catholic is a common participant on this board. Some people on another board thought for a while that he had converted to Mormonism, he was such a strong defender of their teachings for a period.
I'd offer a slightly different diagnosis. You reject much of God's revelation to his people. You reject God's word, every bit of it that isn't written down in the canon of Scripture that you have chosen to use. Scripture is very clear that we will participate in the Divine nature. Since God's nature is his divinity, we will share in God's divinity. Perhaps if you were to avail yourself of the whole of God's word you would find yourself less prone to misunderstand Scripture.Quote:
Their lack of adherence to sola scriptura is no doubt one of the reasons that we differ on this point, I agree. Scripture is very clear regarding the fact that men are not gods, and I stick by what it says.
Then again, since you are unwilling to be obedient to God's word when it tells us to uphold and abide by oral Tradition, it isn't altogether surprising to find you unwiling to acknowledge the truth of the doctrine of theosis/deification despite Scripture's explicit affirmation that we are to participate in God's holiness and nature, becoming one with God so that, in the fullness of time, God "may be all in all".
And thank you, Adam, for your very thoughtful contributions to the discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by adam7gur
IT does not say anything about making men gods or God. But we do know about the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in context. Surely you don't advocate taking a single verse out of context and altering what it says to agree with your private interpretation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akoue
And so on with the other verses.
One of us has, and apparently you are not familiar with the teaching. I quoted the CCC, so we know what the Roman Catholic denomination has to say about it.Quote:
Theosis is redemption. I thought you had studied this stuff.
Which differs from the context of scripture which doe NOT say that men become gods or God, but says that the Holy Spirit indwells believers.Quote:
Scripture is clear that we will participate in the Divine nature. This participation in the Divine nature is called theosis by Eastern Orthodoxy and deification by Catholicism.
Perhaps you have not been following the discussion.Quote:
I have said nothing about Psalm 82 or John 10. You can take that up with Adam7gur, if you like.
I accept ALL of God's revelation, which includes the prohibition against adding to it.Quote:
I'd offer a slightly different diagnosis. You reject much of God's revelation to his people.
But then I note that you end your message moving in the direction that every discussion goes - a false accusation.
Neither does theosis.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
I quoted the Roman Catholic denomination's doctrine which specifically says that men become gods and men become God. Deny that it says what it says if you wish, but that does not change anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
That is not theosis. What you quoted is not what Akoue is talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
Then perhaps he should not respond to CCC Article 460 with a comments on a different topic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
BTW, do you know that an alternate term used by the Orthdox Church for theosis is "deification" of man?
He didn't. You threw in the CCC thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
You have your facts wrong--or at least misunderstand that term.Quote:
BTW, do you know that an alternate term used by the Orthdox Church for theosis is "deification" of man?
For your benefit, let's go back over what happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
- Adam, with the agreement of Fred brought up the idea that men are gods.
- Classy questioned if that was a doctrine of the Roman Catholic denomination.
- I pointed out that it was by quoting the CCC article 460.
- Akoue responded in post 258.
You should check out the facts before criticizing others.
Check any Orthodox church site. That is the word that THEY use.Quote:
You have your facts wrong--or at least misunderstand that term.
Once again, it would benefit you to check first.
I have checked. As I said, "deification" has a whole 'nother shade of meaning than what you are giving it. That's the meaning Akoue is using. I'm so sorry you are missing the boat. He explained it well more than once in this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
I gave it no definition, so you are making assumptions. Check the dictionary for the definition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Akoue can believe what he wishes, but the discussion is on article 460 which is quite specific on it's meaning. I'll let you grab a dictionary to look up the meaning of deification.Quote:
That's the meaning Akoue is using. I'm so sorry you are missing the boat. He explained it well more than once in this thread.
Again, I suggest that you get your facts straight first.
Yes, you did. You said it means "men become gods or God."Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
But that is NOT what he is referring to as "deification." Please read his very lucid definition.Quote:
Akoue can believe what he wishes, but the discussion is on article 460 which is quite specific on it's meaning. I'll let you grab a dictionary to look up the meaning of deification.
Again, I suggest that you get your facts straight first.
I did not define deification, and that is what we are talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
I do not care about HIS definition. He can create his own if he wishes, but the question was surrounding article 460 of the CCC.Quote:
But that is NOT what he is referring to as "deification." Please read his very lucid definition.
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