Ask Me Help Desk - Closed "question"

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Originally Posted by nigel5

Am afraid i have to agree with your argument...because its well organized and sticks to facts. good job.

Don't be afraid, we can agree on some things and disagree on others! :)

The historical evidence might be old but it indeed doesn't substitute for physical evidence of lets say, the death of Jesus or the flood. But look at it this way, the fact that the bible is centuries old with multiple translations and still can hold out with a document that is from the 1st century truly is amazing... well, to me it is :)

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Originally Posted by Capuchin

inthebox agrees: takes a 'childlike" faith and innocence. The more you think you know, the less likely you are to believe

It's also a well documented fact that people who know very little about a subject think they know more than people who know an average amount about the subject :). I believe the study into faith against education actually correlated how much people actually know, not how much they think they know.

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Originally Posted by mountain_man

Who else matters but JESUS!! He is the "way the truth and the light, no man comes to the Father except through Him"

I can understand your thought processes on this belief, but I just know that what is taught in these times and attributed to "jesus christ" for the most part has been twisted. That's why so many Christians judge, they claim they don't but they do. I can't tell you how many people who said nothing to be verbally, were condemning me for this or that and the other thing. It is very inauthentic behavior for a person to behave in this, it makes others feel that sometimes when they don't comment, they are accepting, instead they are silently judging. I've had a lifetime of that. A lifetime of "enough already". :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by MoonlitWaves

Jillian is correct. The discovery of the scrolls does not prove that the happenings written actually took place.
No matter what scientists or archaeologists find, it will never be undeniable evidenced that God exisits. God wanted us to have free will. He wants us to choose Him. To have faith that He exists without physical undeniable evidenced. If there were undeniable evidenced that God exists then that choice would be eliminated. I mean sure you could still say He doesn't exists, but that would be the same as saying the sky isn't blue on a clear day. Maybe archaeologists are searching for their piece of mind, who knows. But if they are searching to prove God's existance they are wasting their time.

God is not a "Him" or a "He". You only have to look at women who create life inside their bodies, to see how creators of life would be more female than male.

However, Im not saying it's a She either. I can't stand people who use the woman "Mankind" either.. women have gotten a second place bad rap in this world thanks to religion.. and no one ever notices they are the ones giving birth to men.

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Originally Posted by cerulean

God is not a "Him" or a "He". You only have to look at women who create life inside their bodies, to see how creators of life would be more female than male.

However, Im not saying its a She either. I can't stand people who use the woman "Mankind" either.. women have gotten a second place bad rap in this world thanks to religion.. and noone ever notices they are the ones giving birth to men.

God refers to Himself as "He", and though one could argue whether it is appropriate or not, I think that we need to bow to His description as to how we should describe Him.

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Originally Posted by Tj3

God refers to Himself as "He", and though one could argue whether it is appropriate or not, I think that we need to bow to His description as to how we should describe Him.

The bible is not the word of God. It is a man-made book written by "men" at a time when society was male dominated. God is neither male nor female, nor anything in between. We are not really created in God's image the way the bible claims. God is nothing like us at all, nor is It like anything in the creation. God is totally incomprehensible. To say we are created in God's image is nothing more than a human centered attempt at anthropomorphism, to bring God down to our level.

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Originally Posted by deist

The bible is not the word of God. It is a man-made book written by "men" at a time when society was male dominated. God is neither male nor female, nor anything in between. We are not really created in God's image the way the bible claims. God is nothing like us at all, nor is It like anything in the creation. God is totally incomprehensible. To say we are created in God's image is nothing more than a human centered attempt at anthropomorphism, to bring God down to our level.

I don't see how you can claim this with any more certainty than those who claim that God is either male or female..

I believe God inspired men to write the Bible, but I think u might differ which is okay :)

We know that man will not understand God with his mind, it has always been so and we are told it is so. God can not be studied like a lab animal and is not subect to our rules and our desires. And HE is referred to as male, the Father, because he has told us to refer to him as such, Since even Christ hisself referred to God the Father, it is so no matter how much moderal liberals wish to take and change God in their image

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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

We know that man will not understand God with his mind, it has always been so and we are told it is so. God can not be studied like a lab animal and is not subect to our rules and our desires. And HE is refered to as male, the Father, because he has told us to refer to him as such, Since even Christ hisself refered to God the Father, it is so no matter how much moderal liberals wish to take and change God in thier image

Agreed. Jesus said
"Even the father is greater than I"
Want to know who God is?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9FX9MapaNMA~
"I am who I am"

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Originally Posted by nigel5

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9FX9MapaNMA~
"I am who I am"

The link is corrupted.

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Originally Posted by deist

Are christians averse to researching anything that would contradict the bible no matter how true they might find it to be upon reading ? Every thinking christian owes it to themselves to research every source of possible contradiction, if for no other reason than being able to refute the contradictory material. Here are two good sites that every christian of intelligence ought to look into: God vs. the Bible & The Age of Reason.

Why would you question the Living God if you believe in Him? The Isrealites did this and were prohibited from entering the promised land. Have we lost the fear of the LORD?

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Originally Posted by savedsinner7

Why would you question the Living God if you believe in Him? The Isrealites did this and were prohibited from entering the promised land. Have we lost the fear of the LORD?

I believe in a God, not the Hebrew, Christian, or Muslim gods. I don't believe the Torah, Bible, or Quran are the word of God. These are all merely man-made books.

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Originally Posted by deist

I believe in a God, not the Hebrew, Christian, or Muslim gods. I don't believe the Torah, Bible, or Quran are the word of God. These are all merely man-made books.

Then what is your standard of truth? What do you base your beliefs upon?

Whether you choose to believe in God, you will stand before Him in the day of judgment. What we believe does not dictate truth, Truth exits whether we believe it.

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Originally Posted by deist

I believe in a God, not the Hebrew, Christian, or Muslim gods. I don't believe the Torah, Bible, or Quran are the word of God. These are all merely man-made books.

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Originally Posted by Tj3

Then what is your standard of truth? What do you base your beliefs upon?

My standard of truth, & my beliefs are based on science, & the culture I live in. If I lived in a different culture my beliefs would be correspondingly different. American culture doesn't believe in cutting off the hands of a thief, but other cultures in the world do.

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Originally Posted by deist

My standard of truth, & my beliefs are based on science, & the culture I live in. If I lived in a different culture my beliefs would be correspondingly different. American culture doesn't believe in cutting off the hands of a thief, but other cultures in the world do.

So if the basis for your belief in god, and the definition thereof is in part dependent upon your culture, do I understand you to say then that each culture much have a different god?

Also, how could a god dependent on culture of man be the one true Almighty God that created man?

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Originally Posted by savedsinner7

Why would you question the Living God if you believe in Him? The Isrealites did this and were prohibited from entering the promised land. Have we lost the fear of the LORD?

I fear your god no more than I fear Zeus or the tooth fairy.

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Originally Posted by deist

Are christians averse to researching anything that would contradict the bible no matter how true they might find it to be upon reading ? Every thinking christian owes it to themselves to research every source of possible contradiction, if for no other reason than being able to refute the contradictory material. Here are two good sites that every christian of intelligence ought to look into: God vs. the Bible & The Age of Reason.

The bible itself is the foundation and pinnicale of all christian thought the bible itself does not lie there are no contradictions in it nor are there half truths as many claim In fact if you could find one prophecy in the old testamnt to be proven wrong then you can throw the bible away as being faulty and wrong The bible is like a wild lion in a cage you don't put the lion in the cage to protect him you put the lion in the cage to protect the reader if are really serious about the bible and you believe it to be Gods revealed revelation to man then it will defend itself No need to have some one defend it just open the cage door and examine it yourself I DARE YOU

Thanks trueblooe, that was funny. :)

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Originally Posted by trueblooe

the bible itself is the foundation and pinnicale of all christian thought the bible itself does not lie there are no contradictions in it nor are there half truths as many claim In fact if you could find one prophecy in the old testamnt to be proven wrong then you can throw the bible away as being faulty and wrong The bible is like a wild lion in a cage you don't put the lion in the cage to protect him you put the lion in the cage to protect the reader if are realy serious about the bible and you believe it to be Gods revealed revelation to man then it will defend itself No need to have some one defend it just open the cage door and examine it yourself I DARE YOU

If I can find one prophecy in the Old Testament that could be proven to be wrong huh ? How's this ? Ezekiel 29: 9-12 & 30: 4-16 is a prophecy that Nebuchadrezzar will destroy the land of Egypt, cause it's inhabitants to cease, the land will be made a desolate waste, Egypt would not be inhabited for 40 years, & there would never be another ruler in Egypt. The prophecy failed on all counts. Nebuchadrezzar did not destroy Egypt, it's inhabitants did not cease, the land was not made desolate & waste, it has never been uninhabited a day in it's history, & there has always been a ruler in Egypt even today. The prophecy was meant for Ezekiel's day & not some future fulfillment, for the prophecy states that Nebuchadrezzar would do it. In order for prophecy to be true it must be fulfilled literally exactly as prophesied, & they must be fulfilled 100 % of the time.

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Originally Posted by Tj3

So if the basis for your belief in god, and the definition thereof is in part dependent upon your culture, do I understand you to say then that each culture much have a different god?

Also, how could a god dependent on culture of man be the one true Almighty God that created man?

My belief in God is not based on my culture, but on the findings of science & the fact of existence. All my other beliefs, however, are based on the culture I live in.

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Originally Posted by Tj3

Then what is your standard of truth? What do you base your beliefs upon?

Tj you might want to check out the thread linked below for more information on where non-theists get their standard of truth and their morals. It's a long thread, but it might give you a better understanding. As far as I know, deist has not contributed to the thread, but many others on this site have.

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/spirit...ow-111864.html

Jesus said that the Father hid the revealed knowledge of the Bible from those who are perishing. If you are not seeking to understand and know the LORD you will not understand the Bible. The Holy Spirit reveales the meanings of the verses to those who belong to Jesus, not to the world. The world cannot know or understand because the world hates the LORD Jesus and who He really is.

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Originally Posted by trueblooe

the bible itself is the foundation and pinnicale of all christian thought the bible itself does not lie there are no contradictions in it nor are there half truths as many claim In fact if you could find one prophecy in the old testamnt to be proven wrong then you can throw the bible away as being faulty and wrong The bible is like a wild lion in a cage you don't put the lion in the cage to protect him you put the lion in the cage to protect the reader if are realy serious about the bible and you believe it to be Gods revealed revelation to man then it will defend itself No need to have some one defend it just open the cage door and examine it yourself I DARE YOU

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Originally Posted by deist

My belief in God is not based on my culture, but on the findings of science & the fact of existence. All my other beliefs, however, are based on the culture I live in.

The findings of science. So can you describe with specifics what findings of science have taught you about the nature of God?

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Originally Posted by Tj3

The findings of science. So can you describe with specifics what findings of science have taught you about the nature of God?

Astronomy & biology points to the fact that the Creator is very powerful (I don't know if It is omnipotent, but it was powerful to create the universe). These branches of science also points to the Creator being very wise, & that It must be good to have provided us with all we need in the creation, & with the capacity to reason & learn through science. That is all I can say about God, nothing else can be known of It. The so-called revelations of God in the Torah, the Bible, & the Quran, are not revelations at all. A revelation is when someone tells you something directly to you. The bible is hearsay. Hearsay is when that someone tells something to someone else, & they tell you that's what the original source said. Hearsay can be many times unreliable, that's why it's not generally admissible in a court of law. The bible is not firsthand revelation, it is secondhand hearsay.

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Originally Posted by deist

Astronomy & biology points to the fact that the Creator is very powerful (I don't know if It is omnipotent, but it was powerful to create the universe). These branches of science also points to the Creator being very wise, & that It must be good to have provided us with all we need in the creation, & with the capacity to reason & learn through science. That is all I can say about God, nothing else can be known of It. The so-called revelations of God in the Torah, the Bible, & the Quran, are not revelations at all. A revelation is when someone tells you something directly to you. The bible is hearsay. Hearsay is when that someone tells something to someone else, & they tell you that's what the original source said. Hearsay can be many times unreliable, that's why it's not generally admissable in a court of law. The bible is not firsthand revelation, it is secondhand hearsay.

You declare it to be heresay, but then why do you believe that George Washinton existed?

Why do you believe that the Roman Empire existed?

The evidence for these historicals realities and millions of other were not given to you directly, so why do you not reject the records of them as heresay?

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Originally Posted by Tj3

You declare it to be heresay, but then why do you believe that George Washinton existed?

Why do you believe that the Roman Empire existed?

The evidence for these historicals realities and millions of other were not given to you directly, so why do you not reject the records of them as heresay?

The stories of George Washington & the Roman empire are not filled with ridculous accounts of the supernatural... miracles & angels & such. And I don't believe everything I read about Washington & the Roman empire. I know the story of Washington throwing a coin across the Potomac is only legend, & the story of Romulus & Remus being raised by wolves is only legend.

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Originally Posted by deist

The stories of George Washington & the Roman empire are not filled with ridculous accounts of the supernatural...miracles & angels & such. And I don't believe everything I read about Washington & the Roman empire. I know the story of Washington throwing a coin across the Potomac is only legend, & the story of Romulus & Remus being raised by wolves is only legend.

So if anything does not agree with what you believe to be possible, am I correct in understanding that you reject it?

And I did not ask if you believe everything that you read - I asked why you believe that they existed. You did not answer that.

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Originally Posted by Tj3

So if anything does not agree with what you believe to be possible, am I correct in understanding that you reject it?

And I did not ask if you believe everything that you read - I asked why you believe that they existed. You did not answer that.

I reject the clearly impossible, & I accept what is written in the history books unless it is later disproven.

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Originally Posted by deist

I reject the clearly impossible, & I accept what is written in the history books unless it is later disproven.

So you reject what you believe to be clearly impossible. Remember that over the years, what man have considered clearly impossible has changed dramatically, so this means that you are requiring God, your definition of God, to be molded according to what you believe to be possible.

So you accept some history books, as long as they relate to secular events, but not history books which speak about events which may speak about God (i.e. the Bible)... is that correct?

Can you see electricity? How do you know it exists? Can you see the wind? How do you know it exists? Can you see God? How do you know He does not exist? The Bible is written documentation of His love for us and of His plan for your life. Jeremiah 31:3 (New Living Translation)
3 Long ago the Lord said to Israel:
“I have loved you, my people, with an everlasting love.
With unfailing love I have drawn you to myself.

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Originally Posted by deist

I reject the clearly impossible, & I accept what is written in the history books unless it is later disproven.

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Originally Posted by Tj3

So you reject what you believe to be clearly impossible. Remember that over the the years, what man have considered clearly impossible has changed dramatically, so this means that you are requiring God, your definition of God, to be molded according to what you believe to be possible.

So you accept some history books, as long as they relate to secular events, but not history books which speak about events which may speak about God (i.e. the Bible)...is that correct?

The bible has a "little" history in it,& much of that is questionable, but it is not a history book. The history books I read don't contain incredible accounts of the miraculous, they just report history. You're not going to brainwash me with your christian propaganda & myths. I'm not gullible. Save it for the gullible.

http://www.thetruthproject.org/
Check out this website for Truth.

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Originally Posted by deist

The bible has a "little" history in it,& much of that is questionable, but it is not a history book. The history books I read don't contain incredible accounts of the miraculous, they just report history. You're not going to brainwash me with your christian propaganda & myths. I'm not gullible. Save it for the gullible.

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Originally Posted by deist

The bible has a "little" history in it,& much of that is questionable, but it is not a history book. The history books I read don't contain incredible accounts of the miraculous, they just report history. You're not going to brainwash me with your christian propaganda & myths. I'm not gullible. Save it for the gullible.

My point here is that in each of the questions that I have asked, you conclusion has NOT been based on validated factual evidence, but rather on your perception, your beliefs. You thus have effectively established yourself as the standard by which truth is established, and thus, that being the case, any god resulting from that belief system would be a god of your own design or making.

That is the key difference between Christianity and your belief - the standard of truth. We accept the Bible as the standard of truth. Now you question it's credibility - that is okay as long as you are willing to validate that belief. I believe that the evidence for the credibility of the Bible is equal to or greater than that found for any of the history books that you may be thinking of.

I notice with the history books that you also did not establish their credibility but rather said that you would believe it until proven wrong. With the Bible, you just assume that it is wrong, so you are applying a completely different standard to secular history and to Christian history, which again places you as the standard by which you make that determination.

If everyone took that same approach, we would each worship different gods, and thus that approach effectively denies that there is one true God.

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Originally Posted by Tj3

My point here is that in each of the questions that I have asked, you conclusion has NOT been based on validated factual evidence, but rather on your perception, your beliefs. You thus have effectively established yourself as the standard by which truth is established, and thus, that being the case, any god resulting from that belief system would be a god of your own design or making.

That is the key difference between Christianity and your belief - the standard of truth. We accept the Bible as the standard of truth. Now you question it's credibility - that is okay as long as you are willing to validate that belief. I believe that the evidence for the credibility of the Bible is equal to or greater than that found for any of the history books that you may be thinking of.

I notice with the history books that you also did not establish their credibility but rather said that you would believe it until proven wrong. With the Bible, you just assume that it is wrong, so you are applying a completely different standard to secular history and to Christian history, which again places you as the standard by which you make that determination.

If everyone took that same approach, we would each worship different gods, and thus that approach effectively denies that there is one true God.

I have already invalidated the bible, in the threads "Failed prophecy" & "Failed prophecies of Jesus".

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Originally Posted by deist

I have already invalidated the bible, in the threads "Failed prophecy" & "Failed prophecies of Jesus".

I did not see the first thread, but the second I participated in and every point that you raised was clearly refuted.

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Originally Posted by Tj3

I did not see the first thread, but the second I participated in and every point that you raised was clearly refuted.

I don't feel that you have refuted me at all, & I doubt that any non-christians who might have seen the thread think you have either.

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Originally Posted by deist

I don't feel that you have refuted me at all, & I doubt that any non-christians who might have seen the thread think you have either.

You can believe as you wish.